Union pulls support for Obamacare, a sign of things to come?

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When someone gets more money from the govt than they pay into the system, where do you think the money comes from?

Take this completely fabricated, but not unlikely scenario. My wife and I have 3 kids and a combined income of 40k a year. At the end of the year we have paid 2500 to the feds in taxes. When we file our taxes and account for all of the tax credits and deductions we get 4k back. On top of that, we are getting section 8 housing and food stamps which comes out to 6k a year.

Tell me, how is that $7500 that has been given to me NOT wealth redistribution? How was that money NOT forceably taken from someone else and given to me?

It's not forcibly taken from anyone. The American people wanted this system, they still want it. And it's not redistribution. Its the system you signed up for when you became an american working citizen. You have every right to move somewhere else where you feel the taxation system is more fair

[Sinfix_15]

It's not forcibly taken from anyone. The American people wanted this system, they still want it. And it's not redistribution. Its the system you signed up for when you became an american working citizen. You have every right to move somewhere else where you feel the taxation system is more fair

or............

We can work to educate the low information voter who allows a president like Obama to happen. We can teach these morons the error of their ways so that maybe we wont have to suffer through another dirt bag communist wannabe who thinks he can tax us to prosperity. In the mean time, we can all thank congress for keeping a tight leash on this radical lunatic and weather the storm until we can replace him. Hopefully by the time this ordeal is over, people realize that liberal democrats are the scum of the earth and think wisely before voting for another one.

[BanginJimmy]

It's not forcibly taken from anyone.

A portion of my pay is taken from my paycheck without my prior authorization and if I dont file the proper paperwork at the end of the year I can be sent to jail. How is that NOT using force to collect?

The American people wanted this system, they still want it.

The American people were also only told it would only affect the evil rich people when they said they wanted it. Today, it isnt much of a leap of faith to think that a lot of the people that say the like it say that because they dont see or understand a better way of taxation. I have no proof of this, but it isnt much of a stretch to think people fear the unknown over the known.

And it's not redistribution.

So what do you call it when you take something from me and give it to someone else?

Its the system you signed up for when you became an american working citizen.

Where is this form I signed saying I wanted to pay 11k in net taxes this year while someone else was given 5k in net tax money?

You have every right to move somewhere else where you feel the taxation system is more fair

I have seriously considered it. In the end though, this is still the best and most stable country in the world. For all of its faults, it still provides the most freedom while still providing the highest level of safety and security.

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A portion of my pay is taken from my paycheck without my prior authorization and if I dont file the proper paperwork at the end of the year I can be sent to jail. How is that NOT using force to collect?

Because you're giving it to them. You've already authorized it. Do you not sign W4's at the end of the year?

The American people were also only told it would only affect the evil rich people when they said they wanted it. Today, it isnt much of a leap of faith to think that a lot of the people that say the like it say that because they dont see or understand a better way of taxation. I have no proof of this, but it isnt much of a stretch to think people fear the unknown over the known.

They were also told it would provide for things like your retirement, healthcare should you need it, assistance should you need it, and they were told it would affect everyone. I guess it isnt much of a leap of faith to think that people believe 20% of their paycheck is a small price to pay for the myriad of services the government provides for you, and that you enjoy.

So what do you call it when you take something from me and give it to someone else?

You mean when you give something to me and I give it to someone else?

Where is this form I signed saying I wanted to pay 11k in net taxes this year while someone else was given 5k in net tax money?

Signature line on the bottom

I have seriously considered it. In the end though, this is still the best and most stable country in the world. For all of its faults, it still provides the most freedom while still providing the highest level of safety and security.

Thanks, taxes! LOL

[BanginJimmy]

Because you're giving it to them. You've already authorized it. Do you not sign W4's at the end of the year?

Read your W4 again. All that does is claim your dependents. It does not authorize anyone to take money from your paycheck.

EDIT: I was wrong on this part. Under the Purpose section of the W4, it does authorize your employer to withhold money.

They were also told it would provide for things like your retirement, healthcare should you need it, assistance should you need it, and they were told it would affect everyone. I guess it isnt much of a leap of faith to think that people believe 20% of their paycheck is a small price to pay for the myriad of services the government provides for you, and that you enjoy.

How is that possible when all of those things came decades after the 16th Amendment?

16th Amendment - ratified Feb. 1913
Social Security - 1935
Medicare - 1965
Welfare programs (part of Johnson Great Society initiatives) - 1960's.

Tell me again how an Amendment ratified in 1913 was meant for these programs.

You mean when you give something to me and I give it to someone else?

Not given, taken. Remember, if I dont give, I face jail time.

Signature line on the bottom

Meant ONLY for distribution of SS taxes and payments. NOT an national ID for tax purposes, or any other purpose.

Thanks, taxes! LOL

Yes, taxes for things like police and fire protection and the US military are a necessary evil. Welfare, foreign aid, money to foreign labor unions, money to the UN, etc are not necessary evils. The US could cut funding to the UN today and use that to pay down more debt than we will from Obama's proposed tax increases.

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If that was the case, why do so man in the country think the rich are the cause of all wrongs? Those greedy evil rich people are working to keep people down. blah blah blah.

I wasn't implying that all people feel that rich = better, but many do as evidenced by Vteck's statement. My main point is that people want to use their personal value system, whether it is rich = better or rich = worse, and impose it on others. Holding too strongly on to any of these ideologies is dangerous because it doesn't leave room for all the subtleties and variance in what a good life can look like.

Its actually the opposite of what you are saying. Its not that making more money means a better person. Its that we see people who make little money consistently doing the wrong things.

But people should be judged by their actions, not their bank accounts. A good person can be rich or poor.

What if it was a gallon of milk and not a ferrari? My point being is you arbitrarily decide what is "too much" and what is "not enough" based upon what you think is a level of wealth. You pass judgement on others that you know nothing about.

All you see is a Ferrari, I see a guy who worked his ass off to make a ton of money, and its his right to spend his money how he wants. Now, should their business decline and he has to sell a Ferrari, then I have no problem with that. But, if a group of people are going to say "YOU CANT HAVE THAT, ITS TOO MUCH" because they dont know any better and their motives are to fleece the wealthy because they are not wealthy themselves.............

well then i draw the line there.

I don't think blank is drawing such a strict line as you say, nor is it based on envy. Your argument that a decline in business that results in less money is acceptable but a change in legislation that results in less money is not acceptable seems to ignore the fact that currently doctor's pay is already heavily influenced by of a lot of regulation. What makes the status quo correct and any possible legislation that could result in a decrease in salary, wrong? Keep in mind the medical system is not anything like a free market system now, so that can't be your whole justification.