White is the new black.

[Sinfix_15]

Again, I never called you racist but I will answer the rest of the question. The fact is, racism has had major effects particularly against blacks in this country. Organization is a way to combat that and hopefully in time, the need for such an organization will diminish to the point where it will no longer exist. Further, the stated goal of the NAACP is for "advancing" a group of people, not diminishing others. They are not anti-white or against any other race. Their focus is positive in nature, whereas your focus on the black race is exclusively negative.

I wouldn't tell them "they focus on race too much" because that is the entire purpose of the organization so it wouldn't make sense. That's like telling the NBA they focus too much on basketball. Organizations are not the same as individuals. However, at some point in the future I may say "society has reached a state that your organization is no longer needed" and hopefully by then, they will agree.

The NAACP will never cease to exist because their motive runs deeper than equality for black people, something they already have. If you think a day will ever come that the NAACP will say "well, our work is done", then you are highly optimistic. Society has already reached a point where this organization is no longer needed, yet here they stand. What more proof do you need that the world is an open book to everyone of every color? A black man can be anything he wants in this country. We just elected a black man president who wasnt even fit for the job. What more proof do you need?

My focus on the black community is not negative. I have explained this..... remember..... we both want a "garden", i simply believe it's more important to "pick the weeds" first. Gangs and gang violence is a huge problem in the black community. I blame this partly on feeling segregated from society, but the thing is.... groups like the NAACP and BPP are the driving force behind this segregation. These groups deliver a message that "there's us and then there's them". These organizations create the need for themselves. They are the reason they need to exist.

I think if you "pluck the weeds" from the black community (every community, but since we're currently talking about black people) and remove these crutch groups who promote racial segregation, people will be just fine. America didnt become the nation it is because we had someone coddling us and holding our hand every step of the way...... What i offer black people is what you've always asked for.... equality. Not a head start, not a handicap, not a crutch.... no pity, no shame, no indifference..... equality... in its simplest and purest form. You are equal to me..... so STFU, quit being a pussy.... fix your own shit and live your life.

[bu villain]

The NAACP will never cease to exist because their motive runs deeper than equality for black people, something they already have. If you think a day will ever come that the NAACP will say "well, our work is done", then you are highly optimistic. Society has already reached a point where this organization is no longer needed, yet here they stand. What more proof do you need that the world is an open book to everyone of every color? A black man can be anything he wants in this country. We just elected a black man president who wasnt even fit for the job. What more proof do you need?

Although not everyone believes that one individual who is half black becoming president means that racism is no longer a significant factor in our country. In your opinion it does. So be it. This really isn't about the NAACP though. It's about the content of your posts that focus on black people.

My focus on the black community is not negative. I have explained this..... remember..... we both want a "garden", i simply believe it's more important to "pick the weeds" first.

Please link me to some threads you have created that show black people in a positive light. I can find plenty that do the opposite. That's where I am getting the negative vibe from. As far as the garden goes, why should the race of the "weeds" matter? I don't see you discussing the white "weeds", asian "weeds", or latino "weeds".

What i offer black people is what you've always asked for.... equality. Not a head start, not a handicap, not a crutch.... no pity, no shame, no indifference..... equality... in its simplest and purest form. You are equal to me..... so STFU, quit being a pussy.... fix your own shit and live your life.

The implication here is that most black people want a handicap, a crutch, and your pity.

[BanginJimmy]

The implication here is that most black people want a handicap, a crutch, and your pity.

If you are in favor of affirmative action, you are in favor of a crutch.

If you are white and believe in AA, you truely believe blacks cannot stand on their own and they need help to succeed.

[bu villain]

If you are in favor of affirmative action, you are in favor of a crutch.

If you are white and believe in AA, you truely believe blacks cannot stand on their own and they need help to succeed.

That's only true if you believe the world is a true meritocracy and racial discrimination is not a factor. I don't believe we live in a meritocracy all the time and there is discrimination and yet I still do not support affirmative action. That being said, it's not because it is necessarily a crutch, it's just too blunt an instrument and sows the seeds of discord along racial lines.

[Sinfix_15]

That's only true if you believe the world is a true meritocracy and racial discrimination is not a factor. I don't believe we live in a meritocracy all the time and there is discrimination and yet I still do not support affirmative action. That being said, it's not because it is necessarily a crutch, it's just too blunt an instrument and sows the seeds of discord along racial lines.

Affirmative action is a crutch.

[bu villain]

Affirmative action is a crutch.

It can be yes, but is not always.

[BanginJimmy]

It can be yes, but is not always.

When is it not? Even in the case of a bigoted hiring manager, if the black guy or woman has a strong resume, there is other employment out there. Institutional racism and bigotry is dead in this country and I would even say the mighty dollar is the reason for that. Businesses are here to make money and when they look to hire, if the black guy is the most qualified, so be it.

[BanginJimmy]

That's only true if you believe the world is a true meritocracy and racial discrimination is not a factor.

There is no institutional discrimination against people that arent white in the US. Anyone that thinks there is is just making excuses for non achievers.

I don't believe we live in a meritocracy all the time and there is discrimination and yet I still do not support affirmative action.

We dont live in a true meritocracy, but our society is the closest this world has ever seen to one. There will ALWAYS be the hiring manager that selects the white guy, the straight guy, Harvard grad, or the cute girl over the black guy, the gay gay, the Princeton grad, or the ugly girl. Nothing will ever change about those things no matter what law is passed. In some arenas of life, your family name alone will get you further in life than your education or other identifying factor will.

That being said, it's not because it is necessarily a crutch, it's just too blunt an instrument and sows the seeds of discord along racial lines.

So you do think its a crutch? It is a blunt instrument and it does lead to racial tension. I know someone who is a midlevel executive in a large firm and he is black. According to him, he had less education and went to a lower tier school than most of the people that interned and the ones that hired in with him. He was always wondering if he only got the job because of his race. Over the last decade he has moved up quite a ways and earned the respect he gets, but early on every time he screwed up he got a lot of static about being the AA quota for the year. He would tell you himself, he just might have been. He was not as qualified as others that he interned with that were not offered a full time position.

[bu villain]

There is no institutional discrimination against people that arent white in the US. Anyone that thinks there is is just making excuses for non achievers.

I agree that it is no longer institutionalized really but it certainly still exists.

We dont live in a true meritocracy, but our society is the closest this world has ever seen to one. There will ALWAYS be the hiring manager that selects the white guy, the straight guy, Harvard grad, or the cute girl over the black guy, the gay gay, the Princeton grad, or the ugly girl. Nothing will ever change about those things no matter what law is passed. In some arenas of life, your family name alone will get you further in life than your education or other identifying factor will.

Absolutely true but just because we are better than ever, doesn't mean there is no reason to stop fighting injustice. You are right there will always be a certain amount of unwarranted discrimination. The question is, have we reached that minimum yet or not. Intelligent people can disagree because this is not a simple question to answer.

So you do think its a crutch? It is a blunt instrument and it does lead to racial tension. I know someone who is a midlevel executive in a large firm and he is black. According to him, he had less education and went to a lower tier school than most of the people that interned and the ones that hired in with him. He was always wondering if he only got the job because of his race. Over the last decade he has moved up quite a ways and earned the respect he gets, but early on every time he screwed up he got a lot of static about being the AA quota for the year. He would tell you himself, he just might have been. He was not as qualified as others that he interned with that were not offered a full time position.

I agree it CAN be a crutch but isn't always. Maybe he got the job because of his race. Maybe another guy at another firm didn't get a job because of his race. Affirmative action helps to correct the latter situation but can have the downside of puttin an unqualified person in a position too. Therefore, affirmative action is not categorically a crutch. It depends on the circumstances. It is a blunt instrument because it may help the problem in aggregate but will be the wrong thing in some situations.

[Sinfix_15]

Although not everyone believes that one individual who is half black becoming president means that racism is no longer a significant factor in our country. In your opinion it does. So be it. This really isn't about the NAACP though. It's about the content of your posts that focus on black people.

Black people are the "problem child" in america..... what about this is hard to understand?? It's pretty alarming to recognize to the impact that 15% of the population has on our crime rate. The NAACP is just an example of a commonly accepted group that drives racial segregation. The driving force behind black people being "black people" and not "people" is.... well, black people. You cant ask to have all of your accomplishments have a "black asterick" beside them and then complain when people do the same with your negatives.

Please link me to some threads you have created that show black people in a positive light. I can find plenty that do the opposite. That's where I am getting the negative vibe from. As far as the garden goes, why should the race of the "weeds" matter? I don't see you discussing the white "weeds", asian "weeds", or latino "weeds".

why should race matter? you tell me??????? i'm the one questioning the existence of all the "blacks only" organizations. I'm asking the same question..... when you find the answer, let me know.

The implication here is that most black people want a handicap, a crutch, and your pity.

The NAACP does..... dont see anybody complaining about their representation.

[bu villain]

Black people are the "problem child" in america..... what about this is hard to understand?? It's pretty alarming to recognize to the impact that 15% of the population has on our crime rate. The NAACP is just an example of a commonly accepted group that drives racial segregation. The driving force behind black people being "black people" and not "people" is.... well, black people. You cant ask to have all of your accomplishments have a "black asterick" beside them and then complain when people do the same with your negatives.

The issue is you don't see the hypocrisy when you engage in the same "asterisk" designation that you rail against. Or maybe you believe two wrongs make a right. I'm not really sure. Plus, your posts are usually hostile towards blacks so your new found concern with black communities' self imposed segregation now seems feigned. Your position comes off similar to a wife beater, "I only hit you because I love you."

why should race matter? you tell me??????? i'm the one questioning the existence of all the "blacks only" organizations. I'm asking the same question..... when you find the answer, let me know.

You are changing the topic. My beef was never you questioning something a black person or group does in general, it was the frequency with which you do it compared to all other racial groups. Not long ago you started a thread with an article about a white group but you didn't do it to discuss the white group in question, you did it so you could segue into black groups. It's your continuous steering of any discussion into a discussion on blacks which is what I "chose not to ignore".

The NAACP does..... dont see anybody complaining about their representation.

The NAACP is not synonymous with all black people and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't describe themselves as asking for a crutch, a handicap, or your pity. We can discuss individual actions by the NAACP and I may even agree with you on some but I don't believe that is the goal of the group on whole.

[Sinfix_15]

The issue is you don't see the hypocrisy when you engage in the same "asterisk" designation that you rail against. Or maybe you believe two wrongs make a right. I'm not really sure. Plus, your posts are usually hostile towards blacks so your new found concern with black communities' self imposed segregation now seems feigned. Your position comes off similar to a wife beater, "I only hit you because I love you."

I've stated before...... i purposefully mock some arguments to shine light on how stupid the original issue is. I am not hostile towards black people. I am hostile towards gangs, gang violence, pimps, thugs, gangsters ect.... just so happens i notice a larger presence of these things in the black community. 15% of the population accounts for 50% of our crime...... this is a problem. Your analogy is not accurate..... i dont "hit" out of love.... but i do believe we need to start doing a lot more "hitting". My stance on the criminal justice system is pretty transparent. I believe in harsh punishments for violent crime across the board. I say that every time we have a conversation about it. I dont care what color a criminal is..... but i cant help but notice what color they are. It's not like i'm saying "white criminals should be given a pass and black criminals should be treated more harshly", nope... that's something the NAACP would say, not me. My observance of color is just that.... observance. It's not a deciding factor on any decision i make.

You are changing the topic. My beef was never you questioning something a black person or group does in general, it was the frequency with which you do it compared to all other racial groups. Not long ago you started a thread with an article about a white group but you didn't do it to discuss the white group in question, you did it so you could segue into black groups. It's your continuous steering of any discussion into a discussion on blacks which is what I "chose not to ignore".

When people offend me, i speak about it. I'm not deciding for these offenses to be black people, they just are. It's not because theyre black, but i cant help but notice that they are......... cops pay more attention to red cars..... color is a part of our life.... i cant turn that part of my brain off and not notice it. I'm not ignoring white people, im not focusing on black.... i'm simply being honest about my perception of the world and unfortunately black people are on the short end of it. If i added up all the admirable people i come in contact with, it's a pretty diverse group.... honestly, black people are a large portion of that group. Just for the sake of putting a number on it... id say 40%black 45%white 10%hispanic 5%other...... but.... if i looked at the group of low life scumbags that ive ever came in contact with..... that group is about 75% black

The NAACP is not synonymous with all black people and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't describe themselves as asking for a crutch, a handicap, or your pity. We can discuss individual actions by the NAACP and I may even agree with you on some but I don't believe that is the goal of the group on whole.

Doesnt matter how THEY describe themselves...... It's what they are.