The current state of healthcare in the US is a joke.

[.blank cd]

Your solution doesn't solve anything then. It doesn't really improve anything, it just takes localized healthcare and puts it under a national regulation - and that is the established receipe for worse results at higher cost. In order for a single payer system to ever have a chance to be introduced, there needs to be a clear improvement over the existing system.

Ive offered that improvement. I'm still not sure where you're lost? It seems that you have an idealogical aversion to it, but its based on the same as the tax system we have in place that everyone's already agreed to. We're just taking the money we're already paying insurance companies for healthcare and giving it to the government. I don't think I could make it any simpler than that. Lol.

However, both would receive the same emergency care. We aren't talking about emergency care though - we are talking about healthcare in regards to standarizing the normalized care that individuals receive. The difference is how much should one person pay towards another's care. Again, why should Person #2 be responsible for the needs of Person #1?

Person 2 is already responsible for person 1. You are paying for it on the front end right now. There will always be people who abuse the system. It's a fact of life we have to cope with. My system makes it so that YOU don't have to cope with it as much.

[BanginJimmy]

We're just taking the money we're already paying insurance companies for healthcare and giving it to the government.

With the track record the govt has, how could anyone be against that? I mean, look how well they have managed the money they confiscated to pay for retirement.

[bu villain]

Most doctors want to be doctors because its helping people, but , most want to be compensated because their costs are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Advertising is bad now? Profit is bad now? Are you fucking kidding me?

the BEST doctors ADVERTISE and count on making a PROFIT. do you know what it takes to be a WORLD CLASS DOCTOR? SURGEON? ARE YOU AN EXPERT ON IT?

I don't understand. I never said advertising is wrong nor did I say profit was bad. All I said was that I would prefer a doctor whose primary concern was helping people and making large amounts of money and advertising was secondary. I certainly didn't mean to imply advertising and making money makes you a bad doctor. I'm certainly not a world class doctor but I'm not sure what that had to do with anything. I never stated being a doctor was easy or that they shouldn't be compensated.

What do you do for a living?

Engineering but no need to get into personal lives.

Actually, I can introduce you to a lot of people that fit both of those 2 types that I described.

I'm sure you could and I'm not doubting the existence of the people you or blank described, just that policy shouldn't be based on anecdotes (even if you have a lot of them). Anecdotes are powerful persuasion devices that can evoke strong emotions which is why they often cloud people's judgement when it comes to the bigger picture.

Sounds like you think that utopia can exist if we simply steal from the rich and give to the poor - even if the poor stay poor because they do not want to put out the effort to better their own lives.

I guess I don't see why doing something that every other developed country in the world does is somehow an unrealistic utopia. I have lived in a country with socialized healthcare and I happen to prefer it. I'm not arguing that single payer would solve our healthcare cost problem but I don't think it would prevent us from solving it either. I'm not going to argue with your ideological view that taxes are stealing and poor people deserve to be poor lest we get too off topic.

[David88vert]

Ive offered that improvement. I'm still not sure where you're lost? It seems that you have an idealogical aversion to it, but its based on the same as the tax system we have in place that everyone's already agreed to. We're just taking the money we're already paying insurance companies for healthcare and giving it to the government. I don't think I could make it any simpler than that. Lol.


Person 2 is already responsible for person 1. You are paying for it on the front end right now. There will always be people who abuse the system. It's a fact of life we have to cope with. My system makes it so that YOU don't have to cope with it as much.

I'm not lost. I know that nationalizing healthcare will not lower costs or improve the quality of care for the individuals who are currently funding the system.

I would have to cope with a lower quality of care and higher cost under your "utopian" idealistic plan. It would hardly be " utopian for me to receive lower quality at an increased price.

[Vteckidd]

We're just taking the money we're already paying insurance companies for healthcare and giving it to the government. I don't think I could make it any simpler than that. Lol.

How many doctors does the Govt employ? How many hospitals? If money goes to the GoVT there is no insurance company anymore. Which means, a $500,000 procedure, now costs $500,000..........CASH. No insurance, no safety net against large costs. insurance is there IN CASe shit happens.

If you transfer money from the insruance companie to a single payer like the Govt, you WILL END UP with rationed care and exploding costs. All you are advocating is the govt to tell the private sector what they can charge, what they can test for, and what they can pay themselves.

That in itself, will destroy quality of care.