Get your...Obama Phones?

[Vteckidd]

Insurance companies suck, they are no good. I like the government stepping in.

Insurance companies MUST exist, otherwise, it is unsustainable. They suck ? you wouldnt say that if you paid $10,000 in premiums and got a $250,000 operation. Youd say "jeez thank god i had insurance". Even your mom at 1 million dollars cap, im sure she hasnt paid 1 million in coverage. You realize youre paying them FAR LESS than they are paying out. Its why insurance exists.

Now i agree thats hard to hear if your mom has cancer and then she hits a cap, because shit, its your mom man. You dont want someone saying too bad so sad you out of money. So, i ask, WHY DID SHE HAVE A CAP?

I realize maybe some personal experience has warped or shaped your view, but they have to exist. They should be approved on, absolutely.

Plus wouldn't that cause issues for those involved (both doctors and patients) who don't have insurance and go to the ER for every sinus infection they get?

This is my point about making costs known. Why go to the ER for a sinus infection when you can go to a minute clinic for $79?

I had strep throat in march, i didnt go to the doctor because it would have cost me $40 in a copay, 2 hours of waiting, make an appt, etc. Instead, i went to a CVS minute clinic, paid $80, was in an out in 20 minutes with my antibiotics.

[Elbow]

Insurance companies MUST exist, otherwise, it is unsustainable. They suck ? you wouldnt say that if you paid $10,000 in premiums and got a $250,000 operation. Youd say "jeez thank god i had insurance". Even your mom at 1 million dollars cap, im sure she hasnt paid 1 million in coverage. You realize youre paying them FAR LESS than they are paying out. Its why insurance exists.

Now i agree thats hard to hear if your mom has cancer and then she hits a cap, because shit, its your mom man. You dont want someone saying too bad so sad you out of money. So, i ask, WHY DID SHE HAVE A CAP?

I realize maybe some personal experience has warped or shaped your view, but they have to exist. They should be approved on, absolutely.



This is my point about making costs known. Why go to the ER for a sinus infection when you can go to a minute clinic for $79?

I had strep throat in march, i didnt go to the doctor because it would have cost me $40 in a copay, 2 hours of waiting, make an appt, etc. Instead, i went to a CVS minute clinic, paid $80, was in an out in 20 minutes with my antibiotics.

I don't know why she had a cap, the cap doesn't exist anymore though. So there is no more cap but it previously existed before she reached it. Don't know the details, she was a school teacher so had insurance through work, then got cancer, got fired, and I know insurance tried to drop her but somehow that didn't happen. I really don't know the details. That in particular hasn't made me dislike insurance companies, as it never effected anything with her to make me build some hatred toward them. lol I've read many other stories though with not so good endings.

I take back saying insurance shouldn't exist, but some things should be adjusted. Especially the whole preexisting condition thing.

I agree going to the ER is stupid, half the people that do never pay anyway, which is why they don't go to any of those clinics. At least from what I've read and heard seems true. I didn't have health insurance for a couple of years because nobody would cover me, then the laws changed some and I was able to be put back on my parents, then lost it again when my mom got cancer and all that. I did get sick a few times without it and did have to go to the ER once, I paid though, and have been to a clinic too.

I support Obamacare for the most part, because I feel many Americans could benefit from it, but then again I don't like others having to be involved if it doesn't really effect them.

[Vteckidd]

I don't know why she had a cap, the cap doesn't exist anymore though. So there is no more cap but it previously existed before she reached it. Don't know the details, she was a school teacher so had insurance through work, then got cancer, got fired, and I know insurance tried to drop her but somehow that didn't happen. I really don't know the details. That in particular hasn't made me dislike insurance companies, as it never effected anything with her to make me build some hatred toward them. lol I've read many other stories though with not so good endings.

I take back saying insurance shouldn't exist, but some things should be adjusted. Especially the whole preexisting condition thing.

I agree going to the ER is stupid, half the people that do never pay anyway, which is why they don't go to any of those clinics. At least from what I've read and heard seems true. I didn't have health insurance for a couple of years because nobody would cover me, then the laws changed some and I was able to be put back on my parents, then lost it again when my mom got cancer and all that. I did get sick a few times without it and did have to go to the ER once, I paid though, and have been to a clinic too.

I support Obamacare for the most part, because I feel many Americans could benefit from it, but then again I don't like others having to be involved if it doesn't really effect them.

I dont agree with Obamacare , but i believe we should help and have options for people like you in your scenario and what happened to your mom is absolutely, 100%, WRONG.

I believe in finding some sort of middle ground where we make sure people have insurance, but we also dont let things like CAPS dictate who lives and who could possibly not.

[Sinfix_15]

Insurance companies suck, they are no good. I like the government stepping in.

Plus wouldn't that cause issues for those involved (both doctors and patients) who don't have insurance and go to the ER for every sinus infection they get?

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." - Reagan

[Sammich]

theres a reason they charge an astronomical amount. We must lower those costs. That is my point. Obamacare doesnt address any of those reasons

reason = buy big ass houses and shit lol. i agree w/ getting to the root of the problem, but how do you propose to make them lower cost when it's going ot affect the doctor's livelihoods? (sp?)

[Vteckidd]

reason = buy big ass houses and shit lol. i agree w/ getting to the root of the problem, but how do you propose to make them lower cost when it's going ot affect the doctor's livelihoods? (sp?)

well think about why they get paid so much.

Doctors incur massive amounts of debt right? Why? Because we just dont want any numbnuts being a DR. we require 8-10 years of schooling, residencies that have most working 48 hour shifts, then, if you want to be a specialist you have to get into a program and do that for another 4-5 years. THEN you might be able to open your own practice if you can afford to.

My point is, after all they go through, they deserve to make large sums of money, because their job is very very very skilled, technical , and difficult. its like Pilots, we pay them a ton of money because we just dont want anyone flying a plane. Certain jobs demand more , can we agree on that? If working at mcdonalds flipping burgers paid $100k, id be the first one to sign up. But it doesnt, because anyone can do it and it requires little to no training at all, and barely common sense.

Capitalism operates on the notion of being the best =gets paid the most (in a nutshell). We attract the best doctors in the world because our systems sets that up and allows people to make vast sums of money for a service they provide. No one is stopping you from being a doctor either, you can go be one and "buy a big ass house" if you wanted.

Im going to start a new post on the insurance companies

[Vteckidd]

do you propose to make them lower cost when it's going ot affect the doctor's livelihoods? (sp?)

Here is the fundamental flaw with insurance, and the same problem with college tuition, there is no incentive to bring costs down.

Right now the negotiations go like this
Doctor charges $1000 for an MRI
Insurance says "we will pay you 80% ($800)"
Doctor can either accept the $800, or nothing.
Doctor accepts the $800 payment from insurance, then raises his MRI price to $1250 so he can get his 80% payment = to the price he wants to charge.

This goes on right now, they overinflate prices because insurance companies are inflated all over the place. Theres literally 1000 different kind of plans you can own.
Factor in malpractice insurance, equipment costs, etc and shit goes through the roof. Doctors make a ton of money, but they also have a ton of liability and overhead.

How do you solve this?

1) COMPETITION. MAKE people COMPETE for YOUR DOLLAR. If someone offers an MRI for $500 and 1 for $1000, what doyou think happens? We need them to compromise at $750, or the $1000 MRI to come down to $500 because people are choosing him overwhelmingly.

2) We do need to expand coverage. But it becomes how do you make people buy insurance ala individual mandate? Currently, since i lost my job, i carry catastrophic coverage only, its $63 a month. I can go to the doctor for colds, or stuff like that, but i break my leg its $10,000. Certainly better than the $100k it would cost without insurance. How do we make people carry that kind of coverage? I dont know.

Maybe institute a national sales tax that provides every CITIZEN with a form of minimum coverage so they have no choice. But thats a slippery slope. I really have no answers for that. Theres 1000 ways to do it.

3) TORT REFORM is the biggest. There are tons of lawsuits that need to be brought forth. Theres also an astronomical amount that people bring forward because they can and its easy money. The single biggest cost for Drs. is Mal Practice insurance. We need to find ways to limit frivolous lawsuits and throw them out

[BanginJimmy]

Here is the fundamental flaw with insurance, and the same problem with college tuition, there is no incentive to bring costs down.

Right now the negotiations go like this
Doctor charges $1000 for an MRI
Insurance says "we will pay you 80% ($800)"
Doctor can either accept the $800, or nothing.
Doctor accepts the $800 payment from insurance, then raises his MRI price to $1250 so he can get his 80% payment = to the price he wants to charge.

This is by far the biggest issue regarding health care costs and it is made 10x worse by medicare and medicaid. In your example, the insurance company is paying 1k for that MRI that 'costs' the doc $750 because medicare/medicaid is only paying $500.

This is why I think medicare/medicaid patients are going to have a very hard time finding docs in the future. To force govt costs down, they are going to start paying $400 for that MRI and private insurers arent going to kick in even more cash to cover the losses. I can almost see 2 completely separate health care systems in this country in 15 years, a very expensive, but very good private one that doesnt accept any form of payment except cash, and a low (out of pocket) cost low quality one run by the govt.


A pretty good article about this.

Primary Care Physicians Are An Endangered Species by Dr. David Lipschitz on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent