politics is usually a touchy subject
I usually hate talking about politics but I find this very true. People keep attacking Mitt Romney for being rich and how he spends his own money but no one seems to care how obama is spending tax payers money. I don't car if your a liberal or a conservative you have to agree that the guy is crazy reckless with tax payers money.
How so? Can you give examples?Originally Posted by deutshwise
Solyndra
Most economists wouldn't really consider that reckless. Any better examples? I'm really looking for deutchewise to chime in. I want to look inside his head for a minute.
1+ trillion dollar deficits with still 8+% UE. No signs the economy is recovering.
Considering any money the feds have is "tax payer money" they have been spending it recklessly for years, including the GOP. Obama is by far the worst IMO (hes racked up more debt than any other president combined), but hes not alone. W spent a ton, Reagan, etc.
The problem i have is that at least with Bush we had 7 3/4 years of superior economic status, Clinton economy was booming, reagan got us out of the carter recession years. Obamas spending hasnt really improved anything , UE isnt good, economy is stagnate, consumer confidence sucks, housing is shitty.
At least for the money he spent it would be nice to see some sectors improve.
Enterprise Data Resources- Ecommerce Project Manager
-www.usedbarcode.net
Uhh... Welfare saw an improvement in enrollments! Give the POTUS some credit.
Lack of a balanced budget (or any real and sensible budget)? Biting the hands that feed them ('rich' people paying majority of the tax bill). Obamacare. GM bailout. Stimulus. Ca$h for Clunkers. Buying a bus.
I'm sure there's plenty more... just can't think of any others right now.
Off topic, citation needed.
Rhetoric, still paying disproportionately less, also has nothing to do with spending...Biting the hands that feed them ('rich' people paying majority of the tax bill).
Obamacare--The other side is selling the same thing. You would have ended up with one or the other, the cost isnt really out of line for what it is, I dont think we can really consider that reckless based on the facts. Bailouts and stimulus or ARRA--Agruably prevented a global economic meltdown. I say arguably because we have not yet experienced a global economic meltdown and we dont know what would have really happened had we not bailed out banks, other than what analysts have predicted.Obamacare. GM bailout. Stimulus. Ca$h for Clunkers.
I keep hearing all this "obama is a reckless spender" rhetoric, yet no one cant point to any specific thing, other than ARRA and the balance of our foreign military engagements, nor anything out of the ordinary for any president before himI'm sure there's plenty more... just can't think of any others right now.
GM, solyndra, no balanced budget, cash for clunkers, stimulus money. He promised very clearly, Pass my stimulus and unemployement will not go over 8%. but ohh wait unemployment did go over 8% and has been over 8% ever since
I'm still not seeing how Obama was more reckless with spending than any other president before. Like I said before with the stimulus, it was a response to an inherited economic crisis, proposed by the president before him, which would have been passed no matter who was in office, and a third of it was in the form of tax cuts, not an expenditure. The stimulus is usually built into the numbers they use to make it seem like he's spent more than he actually has.
The numbers seem to be telling a different story than the GOP narrative. Any examples that would show he's the biggest spending president in recent history, without using the stimulus package?
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-barack-obama/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-has-lowest-s/
The ones from the Bush admin that rejected Solyndra's first application based on their fundamentals would disagree.
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Should we start listing things Bush spent taxpayer money on?
You asked for examples and got them
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
I've gotten good examples of spending started by Bush and spending that would have happened regardless of who was president. Still haven't got an example of how Obama is the most reckless spending president, especially when the facts and numbers state the complete opposite. I'm still open for the truth though, provided it comes with numbers and facts, and not just narrative. I know the UE is at 8%, it's been slowly declining since late 09. This is off topic. The topic raised by deutchewise was that Obama is crazy reckless with taxpayer money. I'm looking for examples that clearly make him a more reckless spender than the presidents before him. Some net expenditures.
Look at how much the deficit has risen under his presidency and his policies. Then let's look at how much was spent in the stimulus package and the results of it.im no Obama fan, but I will agree that crazy spending is something shared by conservatives and liberals.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
please show me these facts that state the opposite. would love to see.
the stimulus package was a response to a global economic crisis and would have happened under anyone's presidency. We don't have a reference point to measure what things would be like without the ARRA. Is it considered crazy spending if it maybe prevented a global financial meltdown? The govt only owns about 10-20% of GM now. So aside from the stimulus, what else would be considered crazy spending?
Did you see the post with the sources?
see no sources bra
No need. Bush was just as liberal with the checkbook as Obama. That doesnt make Obama a good option though. In fact, it makes a very bad option.
Nice try at the dodge though.
If you are talking about that 1.8% increase thats Obama tried, it was shown to be nothing more than manipulated numbers. That analysis gave Bush the credit for spending that Obama signed, then gave Obama credit for loans that were paid back that Bushed signed off on. Even the Washington Post called that out.
The facts about the growth of spending under Obama - The Washington Post
The war in Afghan and Iraq would have happened under any president after 9/11. How would you then justify that in comparison to what you're saying? It would've happened anyway so that is justification enough... I say BS.
Cash for Clunkers 2: The Return of Government Motors - Washington Times
I always notice how the wealthier/business owners/ etc... hate Obama. wonder why? Is it because he doesn't allow them to do as they please? is it because he stops them from screwing others?
And here's why YOU should hate Obama. We should all want to be wealthy business owners. We should all have goals and dreams. We should all live our own lives. I dont want the government to take care of me. Obama does.
Republicans want to control your morality. Democrats want to control you financially. Unless you care about social issues more than you do having the money to take care of yourself, there is absolutely no reason to vote for Obama. If you're on welfare and feel Obama is the best candidate to take care of you.... you need to consider the fact that you're probably on welfare because of Obama to begin with.
Here it is again
Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...-barack-obama/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-has-lowest-s/
No. We should not. People have to stop thinking that you're a worthless individual unless you own a business. I don't necessarily wan to own a business. I really don't want to be a billionaire.
Yes. We should.We should all have goals and dreams. We should all live our own lives.
I agree and disagree. If you want to become a business owner and be a billionaire go ahead. I don't, but I respect that. But on top of you becoming rich, should you be allowed to do as you please? Should you be allowed to over work your people and pay them shit? Should you be allowed to charge $35 for a overdraw when the person spent $1? Should you be allowed to have people working 40+ hours and not offer benefits and label them part time? FUCK NO!
This is the reason why the wealthy/ business owners hate Obama! Because he fights againsy letting them get away with half the crap Bush or any other Republican does.
As long as its not illegal, yes.
If by shit you mean at or more than minimum wage, yes
Yes, your fault for not taking care of your finances, not theirs.
Yes. Benefits are just that, benefits. They are not rights.
Really? Like what?
One thing is for sure, as long as there are people who still think corporations taking advantage of people is ok, it will continue to happen.
I just mentioned a few.
People don't think it's okay. CEO's do, and they have been allowed to get away with it by the Gov't. Now, they see a president that actually cares about the people, not corporations aka Romney, Bush, etc... and hate him. Why did Bush not give 2 fucks about green energy? Because he controls petrolleum in texas. Why do republicans always benefit corporations? because they are benefiting themselves. They are all wealthy ambitious full of greed business owners who could care less about the people.
There is nothing a worker can do but allow himself to be exploited.
Sure you guys will say quit and find another job. How easy is it to walk away from a job when you have responsibilities to pay and there aren't many jobs floating around. How about when you have a kid/kids? Can you afford to just quit? No, most likely you will stay there and allow yourself to get exploited until you see a way out.
Sometimes I wish some of you could experience certain things so you see life is not always sweet when you are not the one on a cruise on a holiday blowing money that your "slave" is making you while you pay him shit, treat him like shit, and make him work on holidays while being "part time" yet they are working 40+ hours.
You really have no clue.
I have never, and will never be exploited because I made a decision to gain a marketable skill. If you dont choose a skill that is needed in the marketplace, that is your failure. My employer currently has over 4000 job openings nationwide that they cannot fill. If you cannot change jobs at the drop of a hat, it is because you dont have the skills needed, not because of the job market.
What things do I need to experience?
Being laid off? Been there, done that. Laid off twice in the matter of 6 months, both times back to work within a couple weeks.
Long term unemployment? been there too. When I was in school I had a very hard time finding work that would revolve around my school schedule. Fortunately for me, I gave myself options and was able to survive without steady work for over 2 years.
Blue collar work? Doing that now, also a union worker.
Blowing money my slave is making, sorry, never been there, I was born a couple hundred years too late. I am leaving on a cruise in a couple weeks though.
Who is making you work? No one but you. Acquire some marketable skills and you are the one that exploits the employer, not the other way around.
How are corporations taking advantage of people?
Maybe because they hate paying more taxes and being portrayed as 'the bad guy' all the time.
You're not worthless. You're only worthless if you have that mindset. And best of all blank, God doesn't think you're worthless. He finds value in everyone.
Life is hard. We all choose to our own path. Naruto-kun!
Then don't let them take advantage of you. Why is this hard? If you sincerely believe evolution to be real, I'm sure it didn't give up on trying... why should you?
If you dont want to own a business or be a billionaire that is fine. Live the life that your income can support. Quit living off the paycheck of the business owners and billionaires.
People and business hate Obama because he is terrible for business. Nobody wants to work hard for their money to hand it to Obama and have him redistribute it to the poor. At some point you have to take responsibility for your actions and quit acting like every business is trying to fuck you. Every business is trying to make money. All of the things you complain about, why do you feel entitled to them? you dont like the way a bank operates, put your money in a shoebox. you dont like your salary, find a new job. A business is not going to reduce their profit margin because of the government. You raise taxes on the wealthy, that's 1 less person they hire to cover that cost. One less raise someone gets to cover that cost. I want to shrink the government's involvement in everything, not hand more of my life over to them. If democrats have their way, a senator will be wiping your ass for you and tucking you in at night by 2050.
so just because you're okay you don't care about anyone else? Just because you are in a situation where you can't be taken advantage of it makes it ok for others to be taken advantage of? That is what I'm talking about. I understand small businesses not being bothered too much... but there is no way corporations should be allowed to get away with half the crap they do.
I just can't believe success is seen as a bad thing these days. Unless you inherited a large company, a large sum of money, or won the lottery; chances are that if you are successful then you busted your @ss to get their. What people need to understand is that success and failure are a mindset. Some people make $40,000 a year, have a home, family, nice cars, and pay bills. They are not millionaires or "well off" but they see themselves as successful because they live within their means and are happy. I know some people that have been out of work for a year; they do odd jobs to barely get by. They lost their home and are back with parents. Yet they don't see themselves as failures. They see it as a temporary set back and are working to make themselves more marketable and desirable in the work force.
My point is this, you want to make something of yourself, you gotta do it yourself. Quit demonizing the "rich" because you are jealous. I happen to know a millionaire, he is a great guy. He loves his company and employees and treats them well. It tears him up when he has to lay off workers, but such is life.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
success is not viewed as a bad thing. Who doesn't want to be successfull? To some people, like myself, being successfull is not being a millionaire or having a huge bank account. To me, as long as I can afford my bills, live a joyful life, eat what I want, do what I want, and put money away, I'm good.
What I view wrong is the way some owners do things simply because they are owners, have the power to do so, and the Gov't allows them to do so. That is what I see wrong, nothing else.
I'm not saying screw the rich, I'm saying, allow them to be rich, but also have control and don't allow them to do as they please simply because they are owners. This is what Obama is doing and this is why they hate him.
No, I dont care about the whining of someone that doesnt make an effort to improve their situation.
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