GUN CONTROL

[Vteckidd]

Imagine if we had 1 very very strict set of rules to say, purchase a new car, but anyone could buy a used car. Wouldnt that be the dumbest thing ever? WHY IS IT ACCEPTABLE when it comes to Firearms?

Why do we have the GUN SHOW loop holes?

I refuse to believe this right wing propaganda "THE GUBERMENT IS GONNA COME TAKE MY GUNZ" bullshit the NRA wants everyone to believe. It doesnt bother any of you guys that a person can purchase a firearm OFF THIS FORUM that is not supposed to own one? Why have rules at all then? Why not just sell AR15s at QT next to the beer and milk?

[Sinfix_15]

Imagine if we had 1 very very strict set of rules to say, purchase a new car, but anyone could buy a used car. Wouldnt that be the dumbest thing ever? WHY IS IT ACCEPTABLE when it comes to Firearms?

Why do we have the GUN SHOW loop holes?

I refuse to believe this right wing propaganda "THE GUBERMENT IS GONNA COME TAKE MY GUNZ" bullshit the NRA wants everyone to believe. It doesnt bother any of you guys that a person can purchase a firearm OFF THIS FORUM that is not supposed to own one? Why have rules at all then? Why not just sell AR15s at QT next to the beer and milk?

why not? why is an AR15 any different than a .22 rifle? The left tries to demonize guns. Theyre making such a big deal about the AR15.... "OMG WHY HOW WHY WHY WHY HOW did he get his hands on an AR15!!!!?!?!?"

I want a fucking triple barrel ar15 gatling gun powered by a gixxer engine with a suit case clip of exploding bullets. why do i want it? none of your fuckin business, this is america. Until i give you a reason to question me, dont. Everything the government touches gets fucked up, why you would to volunteer more power to them, i dont know.

You will never stop crime by passing new laws. Laws have zero effect on the criminals. Increase the punishment for people who commit crimes and quit adding more regulations to law abiding citizens. Armed robbery should be a life sentence, even if you steal a liter of pepsi with a pellet gun. If you walk into a liquor store filled with 5 occupants and rob the owner at gun point, even if no shots are fired.... you should be charged with 5 counts of attempted murder. The legal system is way too soft on criminals, diluting the law with more useless bullshit that effects normal citizens is not going to do anything but annoy people.

[Vteckidd]

why not? why is an AR15 any different than a .22 rifle? The left tries to demonize guns. Theyre making such a big deal about the AR15.... "OMG WHY HOW WHY WHY WHY HOW did he get his hands on an AR15!!!!?!?!?"

A semi automatic AR15 is not the same as some bolt action .22 you used to shoot Quail with. Its much more powerful than that , cmon , you know your argument is invalid. I must have missed the point where i said we should BAN AR15s?

I want a fucking triple barrel ar15 gatling gun powered by a gixxer engine with a suit case clip of exploding bullets. why do i want it? none of your fuckin business, this is america. Until i give you a reason to question me, dont. Everything the government touches gets fucked up, why you would to volunteer more power to them, i dont know.

Bcause society as a whole agrees that is not acceptable. We already agree FULLY AUTO weapons should not be made available to the public. If you want to own one you have to go to the Tax stamp process and a much more thorough background check. So your argument is you should be allowed to own an Abrams tank if you want? A F22 raptor? Nuclear bomb? Why? because you say so? So i guess you believe Drunk driving should be allowed, why? BECAUSE I WANT TO DO IT!

You will never stop crime by passing new laws.

I STOPPED READING THERE BECAUSE I NEVER SAID I WAS TRYING TO STOP A CRIME.

READ WHAT I POSTED, ITS OBVIOUS YOU DIDNT.

[Sinfix_15]

A semi automatic AR15 is not the same as some bolt action .22 you used to shoot Quail with. Its much more powerful than that , cmon , you know your argument is invalid. I must have missed the point where i said we should BAN AR15s?



Bcause society as a whole agrees that is not acceptable. We already agree FULLY AUTO weapons should not be made available to the public. If you want to own one you have to go to the Tax stamp process and a much more thorough background check. So your argument is you should be allowed to own an Abrams tank if you want? A F22 raptor? Nuclear bomb? Why? because you say so? So i guess you believe Drunk driving should be allowed, why? BECAUSE I WANT TO DO IT!



I STOPPED READING THERE BECAUSE I NEVER SAID I WAS TRYING TO STOP A CRIME.

READ WHAT I POSTED, ITS OBVIOUS YOU DIDNT.

If youre not trying to stop crime, then what are you trying to accomplish? My first statement was just a generalized comment towards the subject matter of gun control being in the forefront because of the colorado shooting.

2nd statement was at you. If you feel your suggestion will not prevent crime, then what is the point? what do you seek to accomplish? what is the benefit of my annoyance? Why do you need to know anything about my gun deals if you already acknowledge that the information obtained cannot be used to prevent crime?



PS, gun below is 100% legal for anyone. and YES........ if i can afford a tank for my own private use, no reason i shouldnt have it. The US is the world's leading exporter of weapons, they sell guns to anyone who will pay for guns. The US can sell guns to Pakistan but you want to prevent me from buying a gun from my neighbor.......?

[Vteckidd]

If youre not trying to stop crime, then what are you trying to accomplish? My first statement was just a generalized comment towards the subject matter of gun control being in the forefront because of the colorado shooting.

YOu know i respect your opinions we have had a ton of debates on here before. My point is, as a gun owner myself (I own MULTIPLE SEMI AUTO ASSAULT RIFLES including an FS2000 yeh c'mon) , i see the really really dangerous side of the gun owner debate. I thought other owners would see that too.

My position isnt "PASS LAWS STOP CRIMINALS" , my position is treat all firearms the same, and as an UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE, we will remove a large pool of resources from potential bad guys. If anything, we make it EASIER for cops to track down weapons used illegally. Thats it.

Fact is if you have a wet dream of killing 100 people, i can think of 10239029301 ways to do it without using a gun. Im not dumb. The point that "we shouldnt pass laws because criminals dont abide by laws" is a totally valid argument, but why have speeding limits? Why have any laws at all if everyone thinks "they dont work".

All im asking is for USED guns to be treated the same as a PURCHASED FIREARM. I believe that citizens have a right to own firearms, but its RESPONSIBLE knowing what they are capable of doing to treat them all the same.

2nd statement was at you. If you feel your suggestion will not prevent crime, then what is the point? what do you seek to accomplish? what is the benefit of my annoyance? Why do you need to know anything about my gun deals if you already acknowledge that the information obtained cannot be used to prevent crime?

It wont prevent ALL CRIME, it will prevent people from owning a gun that isnt allowed to, and it will allow LEO to easily clarify who last owned the weapon. Thats it. its not even a HUGE deal, The GOVT is going to find out WHO YOU ARE if you buy a used gun anyway. Whats the big deal.

Like Echo said before "i purchase used guns so they dont know who i am" is a false argument. Federal laws state any gun sold has to have a serial number recorded and kept. If Echo bought a used gun, 99% of the time a BOS is filled out regardless. IN THE CASE THAT ITS NOT, LEO will trace the original sale and go person to person till the gun is recovered. Sure there are cases where maybe 5-10 years later the trail goes cold and you can remember who sold what. This would eliminate that.

PS, gun below is 100% legal for anyone.

Im fully aware of bump stop. I have no problem with people owning guns like that and doing whatever. But they should be required to register the gun and fill out the 4473 LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

[David88vert]

I refuse to believe this right wing propaganda "THE GUBERMENT IS GONNA COME TAKE MY GUNZ" bullshit the NRA wants everyone to believe.

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" - Paul Harvey, 1994

All of the genocides in in the last century started with the registration of firearms. Some required ammunition to be registered also. Once the government had its list of guns, it banned individuals from having them, and then seized them in bulk. This is history, and if you do not learn from it, you will be destined to repeat it.

1911 - Turkey instituted gun control. From 1915-1917, between 1-1.5 million Armenians, who no longer were allowed to have guns, were rounded up and killed. It is called the Armenian Genocide. It started with the requirement of obtaining a permit to have a gun, then became the banning of individual ownership.

1929 - The USSR instituted gun control. From 1929 - 1953, approximately 20 million unarmed dissidents were rounded up and killed.

1935 - Japan established gun control in China, and China continued it after the end of the Japanese oppression. From 1948 - 1952, under Mao's Communist regime, over 20 million unarmed dissidents were murdered.
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." - Mao Tse Tung

1938 - Germany instituted gun control. From 1939 - 1945, over 13 milion people (not just Jews), wer killed. These were unarmed people of different background, including gypsies, gays, Catholics, union leaders, and Jews.
Registration preceded the collection of firearms. Learn from history: http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.co...tist/id14.html
And read Israel Guttman's book, "Resistance: The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising", which discusses the difficulty the Jews faced in obtaining weapons.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." - Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens. Introduced and with a new preface by H. R. Trevor-Roper. The original German papers were known as Bormann-Vermerke.


1956 - Cambodia instituted gun control. From 1975 - 1977, Pol Pot had over 1 million educated, but unarmed people murdered. These were law-abiding citizens who no longer were allowed to own firearms.

1964, Guatemala instituted gun control. From 1964 - 1981, over 100000 unarmed Mayan Indians were murdered by their government.

1970 - Uganda instituted gun control. Idi Amin had over 300000 unarmed people killed from 1971-1979. The reason was simply that they were Christians or political rivals. Today, in Uganda, the goverment continues to kil the Karamojong tribe in an effort to force complete disarment.

2006 - Darfur has UN-imposed gun control. Over 200000 unarmed citizens have been murdered. It has still not stopped.


In contrast, here is what our US founding fathers had to say on gun control. They were very explicit in that they passed the 2nd Amendment as a key amendment, and made certain that it is an individual right, not a state right.

"A free people ought to be armed." - George Washington

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson

"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense." - John Adams

"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them." - George Mason

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians." - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams

And most importantly:
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun." - Patrick Henry

And you think that they aren't after your guns?

"When we got organized as a country, [and] wrote a fairly radical Constitution, with a radical Bill of Rights, giving radical amounts of freedom to Americans, it was assumed that Americans who had that freedom would use it responsibly .... When personal freedom is being abused, you have to move to limit it." - Former President Bill Clinton

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans to legitimately own handguns and rifles...that we are unable to think about reality." - Former President Bill Clinton onUSA Today, March 11, 1993

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an out-right ban, picking up every one of them... 'Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in,' I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here." Currently serving Senator Dianne Feinstein on CBS-TV's "60 Minutes", February 5, 1995

And what would Ghandi say? Oh wait, he already has...
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." - Mahatma Gandhi, in Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446