14 dead, 50 wounded in Colorado theater shootiing....

[BanginJimmy]

Let's hear it...I can't see how having someone in that theater, fighting back, would have made it any worse.

Because it wont only be the person close enough to identify the aggressor that will be shooting. It is the jackass in the back row that will also get into the fray.


For the record, I saw batman last night at Mall of GA and I was carrying my LCP.



The sad fact that none of the politicos will acknowledge is that crimes like this are just about unpreventable. From the sounds of it, this was a well planned attack in which he expected to die in. If there was security that prevented him from getting into the theater, he could have just as easily hit them on the way out.

[slow_hatch]

Because it wont only be the person close enough to identify the aggressor that will be shooting. It is the jackass in the back row that will also get into the fray.


For the record, I saw batman last night at Mall of GA and I was carrying my LCP.

I don't understand why you carried to the theater last night if you think people with guns in that theater would have only made it worse... You just contradicted yourself.

[quickdodge®]

Let's hear it...I can't see how having someone in that theater, fighting back, would have made it any worse.

Jimmy covered it for me, sir.

I don't understand why you carried to the theater last night if you think people with guns in that theater would have only made it worse... You just contradicted yourself.

I don't see that he contradicted himself. He has to walk from his car to the theater and back to his car. And the theater may not have been his only stop, either. Also, I doubt he was traveling with a crowd of 50+ people with him. Later, QD.

[Bacon]

People that choose not to carry are the ones that contradict themselves. It's those people that question why someone carries a firearm in public and give us law abiding citizens a bad reputation but will then thank us if we have to use it to protect them. I thoroughly agree with Mikes statement about people randomly opening fire at someone who opened fire first. You never know if you did or did not contribute to the body count. It's one thing if you are out in the open but this situation is not that case. They were in a dark room where nobody could accurately see the shooter. Even as a firearm carrier, I would have gotten the hell on.

I heard that a 3 month old baby was among the dead and a 3 year was shot but, wounded. I asked myself wtf are the parents of a 3 month old and a 3 year old bringing their child to a movie premier at midnight

Are you telling me I don't have the right to take my son to see a movie at a time I choose? I have kids so I personally take offense to a stupid fucking comment like this. Then tell me this. Should the driver of a vehicle be charged because he was t-boned and their child was killed while on the way home from a family gathering at 1:00 in the morning? Should my brother be charged with murder because he found his one month old daughter dead in her crib less than one hour after being put down for bedtime even though it was a SIDS case?

Good job raising a maniac and sending him out into society.

I will agree to an extent. Society has a lot to do with situations like this too so its not always the parents raising the kids wrong. We are the reason our society is the way it is. The guy in question was majoring in neuroscience which is a huge thing in med school so something was done right somewhere when he was being brought up to have gone to med school in the first place.

[Vteckidd]

Slow_hatch is changing the argument and twisting my words.


I have no problem with people carrying. You should carry if you want

My dispute was the comment about how if people had guns in the theater would have somehow prevented loss of life .

[Bacon]

Yeah it would have been worse for sure. If the shooter came through the emergency exit, his vision likely wasn't as distorted as the people in the theater since they were looking at a screen for X amount of time. The shooter had that advantage point over his victims. Some of them never even had a chance even if they were armed.

[slow_hatch]

Slow_hatch is changing the argument and twisting my words.


I have no problem with people carrying. You should carry if you want

My dispute was the comment about how if people had guns in the theater would have somehow prevented loss of life .

I know what your argument is.. but if one person in that theater had a gun, he "could" have stopped it from getting far worse...instead no one did and over 60 people were shot.

[slow_hatch]

I don't know what you guys are thinking, but if this person would have had a gun and grown some balls, the body count would have been way less...

[Bacon]

I know what your argument is.. but if one person in that theater had a gun, he "could" have stopped it from getting far worse...instead no one did and over 60 people were shot.

Maybe or maybe not. What if that one armed civilian was among the slain? What IF that one armed civilian shot an unarmed civilian during the whole mass confusion? It's a dark room and at night. See my above comment about vision.

[BanginJimmy]

I don't know what you guys are thinking, but if this person would have had a gun and grown some balls, the body count would have been way less...

Yes, that guy could have. What about the guy in the middle of row 20 that has the same idea?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Bacon]

Yes, that guy could have. What about the guy in the middle of row 20 that has the same idea?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

That guy on row 20 had the same thought as the lesbian couple on row six to the far left......"I want to live."

[slow_hatch]

Yes, that guy could have.

You know that's a chick right?? lol

[Bacon]

Seeing you trying to justify "what if" is making my head hurt? "What if" is not what happened. That theater could have been filled to the rim with everyone carrying a firearm....then you would have 12 dead armed law abiding citizens. Stop trying to analyse this like a detective.

[Sinfix_15]

Because it wont only be the person close enough to identify the aggressor that will be shooting. It is the jackass in the back row that will also get into the fray.


For the record, I saw batman last night at Mall of GA and I was carrying my LCP.



The sad fact that none of the politicos will acknowledge is that crimes like this are just about unpreventable. From the sounds of it, this was a well planned attack in which he expected to die in. If there was security that prevented him from getting into the theater, he could have just as easily hit them on the way out.

Sadly.... this is the truth. There's nothing you can do to stop completely random acts of violence with no motive. Even if the theater was packed to the brim with swat team, the criminal would done it in the parking lot, and if the parking lot was packed to the brim with swat team, he would have done it on the road.... ect ect ect..... there's no way to effectively safeguard the world from something like this happening. Depending on which side of politics youre on, you'll be able to use this as argument either for or against gun control.

Guns dont kill people, people kill people. If this guy walked into the theater with coke bottles filled with gasoline, would we ban plastic and gasoline? People have been killing people long before guns were invented. Gun control laws do nothing to control criminals who already express with their actions that they dont respect laws. The only thing gun rights do is give the civilian a fighting chance vs those who follow no rules.

[C230K]

People that choose not to carry are the ones that contradict themselves. It's those people that question why someone carries a firearm in public and give us law abiding citizens a bad reputation but will then thank us if we have to use it to protect them. I thoroughly agree with Mikes statement about people randomly opening fire at someone who opened fire first. You never know if you did or did not contribute to the body count. It's one thing if you are out in the open but this situation is not that case. They were in a dark room where nobody could accurately see the shooter. Even as a firearm carrier, I would have gotten the hell on.



Are you telling me I don't have the right to take my son to see a movie at a time I choose? I have kids so I personally take offense to a stupid fucking comment like this. Then tell me this. Should the driver of a vehicle be charged because he was t-boned and their child was killed while on the way home from a family gathering at 1:00 in the morning? Should my brother be charged with murder because he found his one month old daughter dead in her crib less than one hour after being put down for bedtime even though it was a SIDS case?



I will agree to an extent. Society has a lot to do with situations like this too so its not always the parents raising the kids wrong. We are the reason our society is the way it is. The guy in question was majoring in neuroscience which is a huge thing in med school so something was done right somewhere when he was being brought up to have gone to med school in the first place.

Your examples are poor and if you did have a 3 month old baby would you really take the baby with you for a midnight screening of the batman, just so you can watch a movie about a guy dressed in black with a cape flying around the city? By the time the movie is over and by then you will get home propably passed 2 a.m. Think of the child

[Sinfix_15]

Your examples are poor and if you did have a 3 month old baby would you really take the baby with you for a midnight screening of the batman, just so you can watch a movie about a guy dressed in black with a cape flying around the city? By the time the movie is over and by then you will get home propably passed 2 a.m. Think of the child

on top of that............. think of..... ME........ and YOU........

the last thing i want to hear is someone's baby crying when im trying to enjoy a movie. I chose not to have kids so that i can come and go as i please and do whatever i like whenever i like. You chose to be a parent, so be a parent. There's absolutely no reason to have a 3 month old baby in a crowded movie theater of people. You're potentially exposing your child to communicable illness, the theater speakers are probably too loud for an infants hearing.... there's a variety of reasons not to do this........

but the absolute most important one is so that you dont take the chance of annoying someone with a crying baby.

[Vteckidd]

I know what your argument is.. but if one person in that theater had a gun, he "could" have stopped it from getting far worse...instead no one did and over 60 people were shot.

You have zero evidence to support this claim .

[slow_hatch]

You have zero evidence to support this claim .

So you think what happened was the best possible outcome..?

[quickdodge®]

So you think what happened was the best possible outcome..?

I don't think Mike said that, dude. What I think is that we will never know what the best outcome would be in the two scenarios. We know what happened with one trigger man. But we'll not know what would happen with more than one. But when you have more than one shooter in a madhouse full of people running screaming, you're bound to have a higher body count/injury count. Later, QD.

[slow_hatch]

I don't think Mike said that, dude. What I think is that we will never know what the best outcome would be in the two scenarios. We know what happened with one trigger man. But we'll not know what would happen with more than one. But when you have more than one shooter in a madhouse full of people running screaming, you're bound to have a higher body count/injury count. Later, QD.

If you say so, dude.

[Bacon]

Your examples are poor and if you did have a 3 month old baby would you really take the baby with you for a midnight screening of the batman, just so you can watch a movie about a guy dressed in black with a cape flying around the city? By the time the movie is over and by then you will get home propably passed 2 a.m. Think of the child

Valid point taken so let's eliminate the three month old. I have a four year old so am I required to leave him at home so my wife and I can watch a movie or what? People take their kids to the movies all the time and they are fine. Your comment is still a ridiculous statement in saying what the fuck are people bringing their kids to a movie theater for? You go to a theater to enjoy a flick. Nobody that day knew they would become part of one of the worse massacres in US history.

Another point about armed citizens opening fire as well. Suppose you got a great line of sight to the suspect and take aim. It would be your luck that that one unarmed citizen would walk into your line of fire. The body count would rise and you would be responsible for the death of one person.

[Vteckidd]

So you think what happened was the best possible outcome..?

Jesus let me make it even more clear for you.

Colorado has almost the same laws on guns as Georgia. They allow CCW. Despite that, this guy still killed 12 and wounded 71. So, in a state were CARRYING A WEAPON IS LEGAL, IT STILL DIDNT DETER A MAD MAN WHO WAS BENT ON KILLING PEOPLE.

THis notion you and the rest of the retarded gun toting population push that "OH IF DAY HAD GUNZ WE COULD HAVE STOPPED DEFFFS FROM HAPPENING" is insulting. Its disrespectful to the people who did die, its degrading to the people who sacrificed themsevles to protect others. Its pure right wing , rambo wanna be bullshit.

You take a tragedy like this, and you act like you can magically solve EVERY mass shooting by applying solutions to variables you already know. Its revisionist history. ITS DUMB.

Youre theory states that a guy would NEVER attack a military base because man, DEY HAV GUNZ
Fort Hood shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WHOOPS

Or hey we should put armed police on College campuses that will deter shootings........
Virginia Tech massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WHOOPS x2

The fact is you cant stop a guy who wants to kill. he will find a way and exploit the weakness you think doesnt exist. Bad guys dont follow rules, or laws. Your movie theater full of gun carrying citizens can still be killed EASILY.

So stop acting like you have the solution and stop turning a massacre into an excuse to push your narrow minded warped view saving america. Its pathetic.



Im all for carrying guns, im all for allowing citizens to carry weapons legally, but stop with the bullshit "OH MAN ID LOVE TO HAVE BEEN THERE WITH MY GUN CAUSE I COULD HAVE SAVED LIVES" despite this dude was in full tactical body armor.

ASSHAT

[quickdodge®]

If you say so, dude.

This is why I was going to stay out of it with you. Now you're starting to take it personally that I don't believe that you and you alone could have prevented this tragedy. So you're going to sit there and tell me that you know FOR SURE that this would never had happened if you were in there. You're not definitely NOT the voice (keyboard) of reason now, man. It's nice to have confidence in yourself, but a little too much can be equally as dangerous.

Of course, though, I'm only posting to the brick wall. Later, QD.

[slow_hatch]

Another point about armed citizens opening fire as well. Suppose you got a great line of sight to the suspect and take aim. It would be your luck that that one unarmed citizen would walk into your line of fire. The body count would rise and you would be responsible for the death of one person.

Ok, so instead we'll continue to just let the shooter mow people down...good call! /sarcasm

Mike and QD, where in hell did I ever say that I or any other individual would have prevented this entire incident from happening?? I'm clear the attack would have happened regardless, even if the theater was full of SEAL Team fucking 6. The theater was a "gun free zone", thus denying all law abiding citizens from CCW inside...I just don't understand how you guys think letting the shooter roam free is the best idea.

[doombastic]

this is so sad : (

they are going to end up taking (or trying to take) us law abiders' guns

all part of the master plan i suppose

[C230K]

Valid point taken so let's eliminate the three month old. I have a four year old so am I required to leave him at home so my wife and I can watch a movie or what? People take their kids to the movies all the time and they are fine. Your comment is still a ridiculous statement in saying what the fuck are people bringing their kids to a movie theater for? You go to a theater to enjoy a flick. Nobody that day knew they would become part of one of the worse massacres in US history.

Another point about armed citizens opening fire as well. Suppose you got a great line of sight to the suspect and take aim. It would be your luck that that one unarmed citizen would walk into your line of fire. The body count would rise and you would be responsible for the death of one person.

Im not saying not to take your kids to the movies by all means go. I am more along the lines of when it is appropriate to take your kids. The incident happened on a Thurday night and the Batman movie premiere started at midnight. The movie is 2 hours, 45 mins long, but by the time the movie is over and you walk back to your car it will probably be 3 am. Now I am no parent but, I would not take my 4 year old to the movies on a Thurday night at the middle of the night for 3 hours. I would wait till the next day and see the movie at a much earlier time so that me and my family can enjoy the flick. Thats just my 2 cents.

[quickdodge®]

Mike and QD, where in hell did I ever say that I or any other individual would have prevented this entire incident from happening??

Just as you're accusing us (well me at least) of putting words in your mouth.......

You go and do the same with......

I just don't understand how you guys think letting the shooter roam free is the best idea.

Quote me, please, where I said it was the "best idea." Later, QD.

[slow_hatch]

You have zero evidence to support this claim .

But when you have more than one shooter in a madhouse full of people running screaming, you're bound to have a higher body count/injury count. Later, QD.

You have zero evidence to support your claim... If that chick/dude in the video would've had a firearm or even a fucking knife, press contact to the face(or other exposed area) right after it started, the attack could've lasted only 30sec. Instead he went about his business like normal.

[quickdodge®]

You have zero evidence to support your claim... If that chick/dude in the video would've had a firearm or even a fucking knife, press contact to the face(or other exposed area) right after it started. The attack would have lasted 30sec, but instead he went about his business like normal.

And that's going to be your rebuttal? Later, QD.

[slow_hatch]

And that's going to be your rebuttal? Later, QD.

Lol, yes.

[quickdodge®]

Lol, yes.

Ok. I appreciate the "lol" as now I know you're not taking me personally. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I never said letting him roam free was the best way to handle it, but let's face it, people faced with that situation panic. Remember, that a lot of people thought that his entrance was part of a "show" for the movie so he had a kind of jump on them. I guarantee you that if I were in that situation and I were carrying, pulling my gun out may not have been the first thing on my mind. Later, QD.

[Vteckidd]

You have zero evidence to support your claim... If that chick/dude in the video would've had a firearm or even a fucking knife, press contact to the face(or other exposed area) right after it started, the attack could've lasted only 30sec. Instead he went about his business like normal.

Or what if they didnt go see a movie.....or lived in aurora......or had magic powers......or farted rainbows.......or were trained by chuck Norris
....

Saying "if someone had a gun they could have stopped this" is about as retarded as saying "if they didn't go see batman the could have lived"

[Vteckidd]

I love how you're rationalizing a person with a knife run up to a guy with tear gas grenades and a 100 round mag on an AR15 would stand a chance.

Amurrrica fuck yes

[Scotsman]

I love how you're rationalizing a person with a knife run up to a guy with tear gas grenades and a 100 round mag on an AR15 would stand a chance.

Amurrrica fuck yes

dude with all due respect Mike (i owe you bigtime for what you tried to do)but the argument you are pushing with slow hatch is invalid

[Bigt8aford]

i dont even know what to say about this.... shocked.

My guess is that we will see metal detectors at the theater door pretty soon and rightfully so. For the amount of people who pass thru a movie theater on a given weekend, there's no where near enough security to deal with a problem, they just assume there will never be problems. Which... there shouldnt be... anyone taking a leisure trip to the movies should be a good mood and not looking to cause trouble... but that isnt the world we live in. To quote the batman movie.... "some people just want to watch the world burn".

There was a quote I heard on the radio from someone that said the shooter often referred to himself as the "Joker".

I just can't believe he got most of his weaponry from Bass Pro Shop. That's going to mess up their sales for a while. But May God be with those who have lost and been affected by this man's unthinkable decision. I pray they don't waste any money keeping this man behind bars and give him a one way ticket to hell.

[Bacon]

I'm done here.

May the 12 that were killed rest in peace. If one of the 12 slain or 50+ wounded were concealed carrying, I don't personally hold it against them for not shooting....maybe slow_hatch will.

http://www.jems.com/index.php?q=arti...ooting-victims

Any of those people could have been carrying.

dude with all due respect Mike (i owe you bigtime for what you tried to do)but the argument you are pushing with slow hatch is invalid

I disagree with you. Mike is commenting from a reality standpoint. slow_hatch is trying to validate "what if" and fails at it.

[slow_hatch]

I love how you're rationalizing a person with a knife run up to a guy with tear gas grenades and a 100 round mag on an AR15 would stand a chance.

Amurrrica fuck yes

Ever worn a gas mask? I guess you don't realize how it limits your field of vision.. You read where he had to reloaded multiple times?? There was no SlightofHand perk I'm sure.. Last time I checked a bullet proof vest was just that, only bullet proof. Did I miss where they said he had eyes in the back of his head. This was some punk ass with a gun that probably had very little experience. No doubt he had the jump on everyone, but grow some balls people. Tackle his ass...I'd go bathsalts fucking crazy if some piece of shit decided to shoot up my family, friends or innocent people around me. Which flight do you remember from 9/11....? Flight fucking 93...The only one that didn't hit it's intended target, killing hundreds more, because people maned the fuck up. So go ahead, run and pray to your god he doesn't shoot you.

Hypothetically speaking of course....

[Bacon]

Bottom line:

Chances are that most if not all of the deaths occurred in the first couple of minutes. The guy came in with body armor, tear gas, and assault rifles. Nobody was prepared for what events unfolded. In my opinion, the only other obvious outcome that COULD HAVE occurred would have been the shooter dead as well. The body count would have still been high. Regardless of what if and what could have, its a tragedy that should not have occurred and I think everyone in this thread can agree to disagree with each other. We all post valid points but it won't change what happened.

Slow_hatch, should you feel the need to further continue with me, call me 6783837498. I'll be up all night but I won't continue to beat a dead horse on here.

[Vteckidd]

This was some punk ass with a gun that probably had very little experience. No doubt he had the jump on everyone, but grow some balls people. Tackle his ass...I'd go bathsalts fucking crazy if some piece of shit decided to shoot up my family, friends or innocent people around me.

Just proves how naive and stupid you are, and how you know absolutely nothing about survival. He had a 100 round clip in an AR15 with full body armor, after throwing tear gas, in a movie theater that was dark and showing a movie with IMAX sound. And youre saying that if you had a knife or a Handgun you would have made a difference.

I think that just proves how dangerous letting stupid people carry weapons is.

Maybe one day youll be in a situation like that and realize when to stand, when to run, when to shoot, and when to have the courage to just survive. WHen a guy comes in and starts pumping 100 rounds of .223 into a crowd of 200 people, theres almost nothing you can do. Fear,panic, adrenaline, shock takes over, whether you have a gun or not.

Most COPS wouldnt know what to do in that instance let alone a bunch of untrained civilians.

Flight 93 found out that the other 2 3 planes had been flown into building and all the people killed. They had NOTHING to lose. If this gunman had blown away 1 movie theater, and announced over the intercom he would continue stalking theater to theater to kill everyone else, then yeah, people had nothing to lose they probably would have jumped him.

you realize he only unloaded for like 3-5 minutes according to police.

youre looking at a situation through 1 prism and youre delusional.

[Vteckidd]

dude with all due respect Mike (i owe you bigtime for what you tried to do)but the argument you are pushing with slow hatch is invalid

my argument is perfectly fine. he made idiotic statements and is acting like he is god gift to the navy seals. im just pointing out how flawed his views are.