Obamacare has another casulty

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Uhh, yeah you can. well maybe not HIM personally but his party.

Thank you for proving my point......? Lol.

The Checking Fee Increase was due to Dodd-Frank bill.(Indirectly, maybe, if you wanna look at it that way.) I can wikipedia too. But, that regulation which limits the fees bank of america can charge for merchants using their debit cards, made them add a fee.
This is TEXT book example of what happens when you increase a businesses COSTS AND THEY PASS IT ONTO THE CONSUMER.
So lets get this straight. You want to regulate the banks and tell them what they can charge. Ok. Then, when they add a fee to combat that , you get upset they raised their bottom line? You cant have it both ways. What do you want to do now? Tell them they cant charge the $5 /month fee?

Im having a tough time believing that you actually are believing what you're saying, unless your name happens to be Richard P. McBillionaire. What interests do you really have in defending these guys when its obvious they really dont care about you? I mean you defend them so vehemently, have they ever went to bat for you? I mean, I know theoretically this is how its supposed to be, but it doesnt work in reality, because in reality, people are flawed and greedy and they lose sight of their main objective.

So yes. we can have it both ways. Raising your bottom line on the backs of the middle class is despicable, and frankly against any political parties principles. Conservatives themselves complain about people taking money and taking money and not working for it. How is this different? Its not. A couple guys way high up decide they dont have a big enough bottom line, so they stroke a pen, change their policies, and now they want me to pay 60 more bucks a year? To use my own money? Thats absolutely fucking hilarious! All because they wanna raise their bottom line? Pretty audacious if you ask me, but its a pretty common double standard with conservatives. How come poor people have to work harder and bust ass to get their money, but not banks? How come its ok for THEM to NOT WORK and get their money? Even OTHER BANKS are laughing at this new policy, not to mention credit unions. Policy change is not work. Innovate something, come up with something worth my 60 bucks and I'll pay you.

Now dont you feel like an idiot?

Nope, not really

Keep trying to find something wrong with my statements though. I enjoy it.

So you enjoy it when I point out when you're wrong? You make it so easy for me. Lol.

[BanginJimmy]

Im having a tough time believing that you actually are believing what you're saying, unless your name happens to be Richard P. McBillionaire.

What interests do you really have in defending these guys when its obvious they really dont care about you? I mean you defend them so vehemently, have they ever went to bat for you? I mean, I know theoretically this is how its supposed to be, but it doesnt work in reality, because in reality, people are flawed and greedy and they lose sight of their main objective.

So yes. we can have it both ways. Raising your bottom line on the backs of the middle class is despicable, and frankly against any political parties principles. Conservatives themselves complain about people taking money and taking money and not working for it. How is this different? Its not. A couple guys way high up decide they dont have a big enough bottom line, so they stroke a pen, change their policies, and now they want me to pay 60 more bucks a year? To use my own money? Thats absolutely fucking hilarious! All because they wanna raise their bottom line? Pretty audacious if you ask me, but its a pretty common double standard with conservatives. How come poor people have to work harder and bust ass to get their money, but not banks? How come its ok for THEM to NOT WORK and get their money? Even OTHER BANKS are laughing at this new policy, not to mention credit unions. Policy change is not work. Innovate something, come up with something worth my 60 bucks and I'll pay you.

What is so hard to believe about any regulation that costs a business money is simply passed onto consumers? This is no different than a roofer charging you for the shingles he is putting on your house.

Before Dodd-Frank the businesses were paying the complete costs for the convenience of you using your debit card. Now that Congress has determined what a bank if allowed to charge for their debit card service, and that charge doesnt cover their costs plus their profit, they are going to recoup those profits from their customers. You have a choice whether you want to pay that fee or not pay it. Dont use your debit card and you wont pay the fee.


Apparently a Forbes Columnist saw this coming back in June.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahtou...urt-consumers/

NY Post doesnt agree with you either.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...JTR79g8s8go06H

The CEO of Cardhub.com saw this happening back in December of '10.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/...terchange-fees

Nope, not really

Is that right? I guess when you are wrong as often as you are you just get used to it. Then again, there is no limit to the depths you will go to to protect the name of your messiah in the Whore House. In your eyes he can do absolutely nothing wrong. Anything that doesnt go perfectly is the fault of others because Obama is all powerful and infallible in your eyes.

So you enjoy it when I point out when you're wrong? You make it so easy for me. Lol.

You havent pointed out a case where I was wrong. I get it though, I really do. If you ignore pointing out where I am wrong you can claim it and never have to back it up.

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What is so hard to believe about any regulation that costs a business money is simply passed onto consumers? This is no different than a roofer charging you for the shingles he is putting on your house.

Huh? This is called a materials charge. When you call a roofer and you want new shingles on your roof, they bring the shingles and you pay for them. This is how it works ALL of the time unless you bring your own shingles, which is sometimes more expensive.

Before Dodd-Frank the businesses were paying the complete costs for the convenience of you using your debit card. Now that Congress has determined what a bank if allowed to charge for their debit card service, and that charge doesnt cover their costs plus their profit, they are going to recoup those profits from their customers. You have a choice whether you want to pay that fee or not pay it. Dont use your debit card and you wont pay the fee.

Not using your debit card isn't an acceptable choice, it really isnt a choice period. Too many retailers are moving towards plastic, some towards plastic only. I walked into Apple with a fist full of cash for a 3GS and they wouldnt take it. Let's take your debit card away for a month and see how you fare. Would you use your credit card? Pay interest on a 20oz coke and dinner at Moes? Lol. Write checks? Withdrawl money from an ATM (remember, you cant use your card)? Dont forget, your paycheck is deposited directly into the bank, so you gotta get your money out somehow!

So since we know you're ok with banks not working and bolstering their multi-billion dollar profits on YOUR back, where does it end? What if they say "oh our profits are not enough, lets charge 10 bucks a month; thats not enough, lets charge 15, 20 bucks a month. You'd still be ok paying $240 a year to USE YOUR MONEY? (All the while they're ALREADY making money off of your money) or would you pull your money and stick it under your mattress, or in a credit union? Mind you this is only from policy change, not from them innovating anything, not from any hard work, this is stroke-of-the-pen profit increase.

[BanginJimmy]

Huh? This is called a materials charge. When you call a roofer and you want new shingles on your roof, they bring the shingles and you pay for them. This is how it works ALL of the time unless you bring your own shingles, which is sometimes more expensive.

Since that analogy went over your head lets try a different one.

Banks charging for the use of a debit card is no different than UPS charging you to deliver a package. Where UPS uses trucks, banks use pieces of plastic and servers.

Not using your debit card isn't an acceptable choice, it really isnt a choice period. Too many retailers are moving towards plastic, some towards plastic only. I walked into Apple with a fist full of cash for a 3GS and they wouldnt take it. Let's take your debit card away for a month and see how you fare. Would you use your credit card? Pay interest on a 20oz coke and dinner at Moes? Lol.

You dont pay interest if you dont carry a balance.

Write checks? Withdrawl money from an ATM (remember, you cant use your card)? Dont forget, your paycheck is deposited directly into the bank, so you gotta get your money out somehow!

You dont pay the fee if you use your card as an ATM card. Only if you use it as a debit card.

How are you going to argue about something you dont even understand?

So since we know you're ok with banks not working and bolstering their multi-billion dollar profits on YOUR back, where does it end? What if they say "oh our profits are not enough, lets charge 10 bucks a month; thats not enough, lets charge 15, 20 bucks a month. You'd still be ok paying $240 a year to USE YOUR MONEY? (All the while they're ALREADY making money off of your money) or would you pull your money and stick it under your mattress, or in a credit union? Mind you this is only from policy change, not from them innovating anything, not from any hard work, this is stroke-of-the-pen profit increase.

Are you against Coke making a profit on your back? How about McDonalds, Ford, Nissan, GM, and Apple? Or are you against a corporation making a profit in any industry?


If the banks arent working for the money who is maintaining all of the servers? Who is answering the phones when you call about a problem? Who is working on making banking easier? Did you think their websites materialized out of thin air? Do you think they just clicked a box on a website builder program and bill pay code appeared? Where do you think that code came from?

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Since that analogy went over your head lets try a different one.

Banks charging for the use of a debit card is no different than UPS charging you to deliver a package. Where UPS uses trucks, banks use pieces of plastic and servers.

Banks are making money off of you having the card already, charging the extra fee is like a double charge hidden underneath this new policy

You dont pay the fee if you use your card as an ATM card. Only if you use it as a debit card.

So you're gonna go to the ATM every time you need $20 bucks? What if you're stuck somewhere and cant get to an ATM? Just withdrawl all your cash at once when you're paycheck hits?

Are you against Coke making a profit on your back? How about McDonalds, Ford, Nissan, GM, and Apple? Or are you against a corporation making a profit in any industry?

Absolutely not. Apple makes a product I like, I buy it, they make a profit. Wells Fargo offers a free banking service, they use my money to make a profit, and they charge me interest on my home loan, they make more profit. Then they charge me to use my money that I give to them to use to make a profit with? Dont think so.

If the banks arent working for the money who is maintaining all of the servers? Who is answering the phones when you call about a problem? Who is working on making banking easier? Did you think their websites materialized out of thin air? Do you think they just clicked a box on a website builder program and bill pay code appeared? Where do you think that code came from?

So you're saying none of this existed before this extra charge? I'll say it again. Banks are already making money off of the money you have in there. This is the fundamentals of a major financial institution

[Vteckidd]

And your concept of banking is that of an elementary school child. The infrastructure you use to be able to swipe your debit card costs money. That's why they charge you the fee

[Vteckidd]

Banks are making money off of you having the card already, charging the extra fee is like a double charge hidden underneath this new policy

You realize that BOA operates under a certain profit margin right? That is what they find ncesseary to justify them being in business. So, if you affect those costs, they WILL MAKE IT UP some other way. They arent just going to "eat" it. ive already shown you their profit margin is a very small 17%. You cut one of their revenue streams by 50%, they are going to make that up somehow. Since they can no longer charge that to the RETAILER(thanks to dodd-frank), YOU are next in line. Its clear you have never owned a business or been in a position of accounting. This is ECON 101

Also, the reason they CHARGE you to use your debit card is because the infrastructure THEY PROVIDED YOU to be able to use your debit card COSTS money. the ATM machines, the Visa/MC agreements to allow pay sites at gas stations, grocery stores, etc ALL COSTS money. they used to pay for it by charging the retailer like WAL MART a percentage to run YOUR debit card. That paid for the machine, the software, the guy monitoring the swipe to make sure it was secure, the servers to process it etc. Now, they can only charge the retailer 50% of what they WERE charging. The answer? they now have to charge YOU the customer to use your debit card since the govt took away the retailer that was having to pay for it before.

See i think you have this cronian concept that debit cards are magic and theres infrastructure behind it. You swipe a card and the money fairy delivers your payment to the retailer. It doesnt work that way.

So you're gonna go to the ATM every time you need $20 bucks? What if you're stuck somewhere and cant get to an ATM? Just withdrawl all your cash at once when you're paycheck hits?

Yes, that is exactly what you will do if you dont want to pay the $5 fee. You know there WAS a time when people didnt have debit cards. Also i beluieve the fees are for DEBIT CARD transactions, NOT atm withdrawals. So youre argument is moot.

However, if you dont want to pay the $5 you just dont use your debit card. If that somehow inconvienences you, FUCK OFF. Because you cant have all the modern technology in the world for free. The bank IS OFFERING YOU A SERVICE by being able to use their debit card to access your bank account that they pay for. You SHOULD have to pay for it. You did before. you just didnt know it.

Absolutely not. Apple makes a product I like, I buy it, they make a profit. Wells Fargo offers a free banking service, they use my money to make a profit, and they charge me interest on my home loan, they make more profit. Then they charge me to use my money that I give to them to use to make a profit with? Dont think so.

The bank is offering you a service, you just said it. they offer you a place to put your money that isnt your mattress. They offer you a place to put your money so it cant be stolen. You pay for that. they offer you other financial services (LIKE A DEBIT CARD) , you pay for that. If you dont want to use a banks service , DONT.

You cant sit here and say you want to use a bank, tell people its not feasible to store their money under a mattress, then say the bank offers no service. I really dont think you have a grasp on anything youre trying to argue. On one hand you bitch about banks, but on the other hand you say you cant do without them........which is it?

They are charging you to be able to access your money ELECTRONICALLY. If you dont want to pay that fee, then carry cash on you or write checks. Its quite simple.

So you're saying none of this existed before this extra charge? I'll say it again. Banks are already making money off of the money you have in there. This is the fundamentals of a major financial institution

A bank operates to take your money, make investments with it, loans, etc to EARN INTEREST. thats what they do. So this "they make money off my money then charge me to use it" is bullshit. ANY bank you deposit to, is using your monet to make a profit whether you use the debit card or not. Like ive said 100000 times they arent CHARGING you for storing your money, they are charging you for ACCESSING the money electronically using a debit card. Because, like ive stated, that infrastructure costs MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to operate, they used to make the cost up by charging the retailer, the GOVT TOOK THAT OPTION AWAY.

The reason i didnt list USAA is because USAA isnt even on the same playing field as any other major bank. Its easy for them to charge less fess because THEY DONT EVEN HAVE A BRANCH YOU CAN WALK INTO. They dont have 1/100th the infrastructure the other major banks have. So your comparison is worthless. USAA overhead costs are far smaller than BOA.

But it brings up a great point, dont like BOA? go to USAA, youll lose the convenince of walking into a branch, but you wont have to pay the $5 debit card monthly fee.

WOW, COMPETITION, WHO KNEW

[Vteckidd]

Thank you for proving my point......? Lol

My point is dont act like he had nothing to do with it. THis is his agenda, he wasnt the only person responsible for it. He is the man in charge, and hes done nothing despite UE raising since he took office. Hes embraced the OWS movement which is upset because of most of HIS policies (and some of the past administrations). Sorry if you didnt connect the dots.

Im having a tough time believing that you actually are believing what you're saying, unless your name happens to be Richard P. McBillionaire. What interests do you really have in defending these guys when its obvious they really dont care about you? I mean you defend them so vehemently, have they ever went to bat for you? I mean, I know theoretically this is how its supposed to be, but it doesnt work in reality, because in reality, people are flawed and greedy and they lose sight of their main objective.

The difference between me and you is i dont hate someone because they have more money than me. I dont think anyone owes me anything. I ASPIRE to be rich through my own actions, not given wealth because i deserve it.

I also understand that RICH people hire poorer people. Its been this way for hundreds of years. So while i do find it despicable what guys like Bernie Madoff did, and some other people, i recognize that our society needs rich people just as much as it needs poor people. You cant have a "top" without recognizing there has to be a "bottom".

Youre just ranting now and have no facts to back it up. Lose sight of their main objective? I dont know if you know this but let me let you in on a little secret

PEOPLE GO INTO BUSINESS TO MAKE A PROFIT

Shocking i know, but you are in no position to tell the CEO of a bank what his "salary" should be because you have neither the work experience, education, nor work ethic to make that decision. I would bet $1000 any CEO you "hate" is far more qualified than you are at what they do.

So yes. we can have it both ways. Raising your bottom line on the backs of the middle class is despicable, and frankly against any political parties principles. Conservatives themselves complain about people taking money and taking money and not working for it. How is this different? Its not. A couple guys way high up decide they dont have a big enough bottom line, so they stroke a pen, change their policies, and now they want me to pay 60 more bucks a year? To use my own money? Thats absolutely fucking hilarious! All because they wanna raise their bottom line? Pretty audacious if you ask me, but its a pretty common double standard with conservatives.

Lucky for you we live in this place called America where you have free choice. you can walk into bank of america tomorrow and close your account. If enough people do it, theyll make adjustments. How do you think we got free checking? Banks started charging fees for using their bank accounts. Smaller banks started giving away free checking accts, know what happened next? EVERYONE GAVE OUT FREE CHECKING. SHOCKING.

The fact they passed a fee is THEIR BUSINESS, they can do whatever they want. You dont have to use it. Im just telling you the reason their fee was enacted was because the Dodd Frank bill told them they had to charge 50% LESS for debit/credit transactions (.44 to .22). They made that revenue up by charging a fee.

Do you know what % of profit BOA makes? I do:
Bank of America Corporation Profit Margin: 17.41%

So for every dollar it makes, 17 CENTS is profit. The rest go to operating costs, divdends paid to investors, etc.

SO its easy for you, the $10/hr guy to say that BOA makes too much money, when in reality, they make about what any small business wants to make .....20%. Who are you to tell them what is "fair".

If the middle class dont want to pay $5 a month, then they can CHOOSE NOT TO. But you want to tell the banks what they can charge and how they can charge it. I really hope that someone like BOA decides to call all your guys bluffs and lay EVERYONE OFF and shut down. See what happens then.

How come poor people have to work harder and bust ass to get their money, but not banks?

Because they are poor. Because you you have to make SHIT and work your way to making BANK. Because traditionally the majority of this country is not born into wealth, so you have to work HARD to acquire it. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Its not. Certain people must fail.

You act like banks are 1 billionaire. You know how many people a bank employs? from the teller to the loan people to the financial traders, investors, managers, etc. Your signaling out the people at the top .5% of a banks employee system and acting like they represent the other 50,000 BOA employs.

How come its ok for THEM to NOT WORK and get their money? Even OTHER BANKS are laughing at this new policy, not to mention credit unions. Policy change is not work. Innovate something, come up with something worth my 60 bucks and I'll pay you.

Define "not work". Do you know the day to day dealings of running and operating a billion dollar business in the financial sector? I didnt think so. I dont pretend to know HOW HARD it is for a nuclear scientist to earn his paycheck, you shouldnt act like you have a mouses fart of an idea what its like to run a multi billion dollar financial conglomerate.

Actually you are dead wrong, EVERY bank is going to start charging these fees. Citi, Chase, JP MOrgan, Wells Fargo all stated their own fees are coming ranging from $3+.

They ARE INNOVATING. I dont know if you know this or not but in the old days you couldnt deposit a fucking check from your smartphone. You had to , you know, actually walk into the bank and wait in line to do it. They are constantly investing in new technology, from smart cards, to mobile deposit apps, to fraud protection, etc.

You wanna know who the REAL culprits are? not the banks! its the OTHER corporations who are SAVING money by having THEIR costs cut in HALF! Walmart used to have to pay .44 cents per transaction. now they pay .22. Have they passed their savings onto you? NOPE.

So maybe YOU should learn more about the issues before you spout off your MSNBC talking points that really, have no place in a relative discussion.

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The difference between me and you is i dont hate someone because they have more money than me. I dont think anyone owes me anything. I ASPIRE to be rich through my own actions, not given wealth because i deserve it.

I dont hate rich people, I hate some of rich peoples methods of getting rich

Youre just ranting now and have no facts to back it up. Lose sight of their main objective? I dont know if you know this but let me let you in on a little secret

PEOPLE GO INTO BUSINESS TO MAKE A PROFIT

Yeah, sometimes

Shocking i know, but you are in no position to tell the CEO of a bank what his "salary" should be because you have neither the work experience, education, nor work ethic to make that decision. I would bet $1000 any CEO you "hate" is far more qualified than you are at what they do.

There you go off on a tangent again.

You act like banks are 1 billionaire. You know how many people a bank employs? from the teller to the loan people to the financial traders, investors, managers, etc. Your signaling out the people at the top .5% of a banks employee system and acting like they represent the other 50,000 BOA employs.

As long as they want to claim corporate personhood, then I will refer to them as a person. So yes, Bank of America is "one person", then continue on down the list

Define "not work". Do you know the day to day dealings of running and operating a billion dollar business in the financial sector? I didnt think so. I dont pretend to know HOW HARD it is for a nuclear scientist to earn his paycheck, you shouldnt act like you have a mouses fart of an idea what its like to run a multi billion dollar financial conglomerate.

I guess the difference here is that you cant kiss ass enough to be a nuclear scientist. Scientists are also producers, financial conglomerates are consumers.

Actually you are dead wrong, EVERY bank is going to start charging these fees. Citi, Chase, JP MOrgan, Wells Fargo all stated their own fees are coming ranging from $3+.

ORLY?


Dead wrong eh? LOL This is why I love my bank. You can thank me when you switch.

They ARE INNOVATING. I dont know if you know this or not but in the old days you couldnt deposit a fucking check from your smartphone. You had to , you know, actually walk into the bank and wait in line to do it. They are constantly investing in new technology, from smart cards, to mobile deposit apps, to fraud protection, etc.

They already charge (in a way) for check image deposits from your phone. You have to qualify (make enough money) to use it. And you already pay for fraud protection.

So maybe YOU should learn more about the issues before you spout off your MSNBC talking points that really, have no place in a relative discussion.

Nor do Faux news talking points, so I guess the circlejerk continues huh? Lol.