Screw the Government

[Vteckidd]

The democrats knew this shit was coming for years. Why didn't they raise the debt ceiling while they had a supermajority in the house, senate, and control of the presidency?

The president has kicked the debt can down the road. He's ran up $4 Trillion on while he was presiding over a democratic congress. Since democrats gained control in 2006 the debt has risen $5.1 Trillion. 33% of the nations debt owed by the public and owed to foreign investors built in the last 5 years and by a 100% democratic controlled government. Here's what the presidents debt plan has consisted of since he got into office:

- Ignored the debt problem for two years by kicking the can to a commission.

- Promptly ignored the commission’s December 2010 report.

- Delivered a State of the Union address in January that didn’t even mention the debt until 35 minutes in.

- Delivered in February a budget so embarrassing — it actually increased the deficit — that the Democratic-controlled Senate rejected it 97–0.

- Took a budget mulligan with his April 13 debt-plan speech. Asked in Congress how this new “budget framework” would affect the actual federal budget, Congressional Budget Office director Doug Elmendorf replied with a devastating “We don’t estimate speeches.” You can’t assign numbers to air.

Now all of a sudden Obama is a super-hero cape wearing budget hawk?

Peoples memories are short.

that is probably the single most aggravating thing about all this. The GOP is getting hammered about stalling the debt talks and is making Obama look like hes some budget hawk. Its laughable.

Hopefully the voters arent this stupid and dont believe the Mainstream Media. I do not care what happens deal wise, this is SOLELY OBAMAs fault. If he got his way he would increase the debt limit with no cuts.

[bu villain]

that is probably the single most aggravating thing about all this. The GOP is getting hammered about stalling the debt talks and is making Obama look like hes some budget hawk. Its laughable.

Hopefully the voters arent this stupid and dont believe the Mainstream Media. I do not care what happens deal wise, this is SOLELY OBAMAs fault. If he got his way he would increase the debt limit with no cuts.

Just to give you a different perspective on why the GOP is being hammered on this. Obama is offering 2B in spending cuts and agreed to not raising taxes (only closing loopholes which many republicans also said should be done). Obama is making concessions that the GOP is asking for. What concessions are the GOP willing to make? None as far as I can tell. No one thinks Obama is a budget hawk but they do see him as someone who is willing to compromise unlike the GOP leaders.

Secondly, I don't see how this is SOLELY Obama's fault. Budgets are the job of the House which is Republican controlled. And everyone should be able to agree that both parties contributed plenty to the debt we are in. Yes Obama has a large role to play but this is the House's job.

[Vteckidd]

Just to give you a different perspective on why the GOP is being hammered on this. Obama is offering 2B in spending cuts and agreed to not raising taxes (only closing loopholes which many republicans also said should be done). Obama is making concessions that the GOP is asking for. What concessions are the GOP willing to make? None as far as I can tell. No one thinks Obama is a budget hawk but they do see him as someone who is willing to compromise unlike the GOP leaders.

Secondly, I don't see how this is SOLELY Obama's fault. Budgets are the job of the House which is Republican controlled. And everyone should be able to agree that both parties contributed plenty to the debt we are in. Yes Obama has a large role to play but this is the House's job.

Keep drinking the kool aid.

What are these 2 trillion in cuts exactly? Show me. republicans should concede the loop holes, but not at the behest of Obama promising 2 trillion in cuts 20 years from now
Obama hasn't had a budget in 3 years, why should he get a pass? The democrats could have addressed this when they had super majorities, they didn't.

So this is solely Obamas inaction, not the republicans.

[bu villain]

Keep drinking the kool aid.

What are these 2 trillion in cuts exactly? Show me. republicans should concede the loop holes, but not at the behest of Obama promising 2 trillion in cuts 20 years from now

What kool aid? I only said Obama is willing to make concessions to the Republicans and the Republicans won't reciprocate and that's why people are angry at them. Both sides think they are right, it doesn't mean they don't have to work together.

Obama hasn't had a budget in 3 years, why should he get a pass? The democrats could have addressed this when they had super majorities, they didn't.

So this is solely Obamas inaction, not the republicans.

Because the President doesn't make the budget, the House does. You wan't to be upset at the congressional Democrats, that I can understand but to make everything that happens in government the fault of the president is not right. He is not a dictator.

[BanginJimmy]

What kool aid? I only said Obama is willing to make concessions to the Republicans and the Republicans won't reciprocate and that's why people are angry at them. Both sides think they are right, it doesn't mean they don't have to work together.

Obama hasnt made a single meaningful concession. Everything he is proposing is for outlying years where all those 'cuts' could simply be ignored. He isnt alone in this though. This has been a trademark of American politics for decades.

Because the President doesn't make the budget, the House does.

Obama has proposed budget frame works in his 3 full budget years (FY10, 11, 12). Its the Senate Dems that havent even proposed a budget, not to mention debate, vote, or pass one, in over 800 days. They are required by law to do so. Even though its not an official budget, it is a budget blueprint.

but to make everything that happens in government the fault of the president is not right. He is not a dictator.

If this is the case, then 1/3 of all the debt assigned to Bush was not his fault. All of those funds were passed in the last 2 years of the Bush Admin with dems holding both houses of Congress.

[Vteckidd]

What kool aid? I only said Obama is willing to make concessions to the Republicans and the Republicans won't reciprocate and that's why people are angry at them. Both sides think they are right, it doesn't mean they don't have to work together.

No he isnt. You would have to really look at the math, and i dont have time to walk anyone through it. His "concessions" are not really concessions. He wants to give them 2 trillion in CUTS in exchange for raising the income tax rate NOW. He also wants to get rid of the tax loopholes (which im in favor of). But he wont say WHEN the cuts will come. THere has been no commitment to any cuts what so ever in the near future. SO its not really a compromise more like a hollow promise to maybe do something 10 years from now......

Because the President doesn't make the budget, the House does. You wan't to be upset at the congressional Democrats, that I can understand but to make everything that happens in government the fault of the president is not right. He is not a dictator.

That is technically correct, but i believe Bush W always put forth a plan the congress voted on and passed so its not neccesary. The president could have been involved years , months ago. The job is for everyone to be engaged.

Furthermore if what you say is true, then PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE the democrats had COMPLETE control of congress in 2006, then i NEVER want to hear ANY BLAME assessed to George W Bush for his last 2-3 fiscal budgets. Congress and the Dems can own that. You cant have it both ways :P

What Obama has done is what he has ALWAYS done which is sit back, let congress fight it out, he stays out of it (while blaming the republicans off handed) then tries to act like hes not the same as them. Thats not showing leadership IMO

both sides are WRONG and god help the republicans if they pass some bullshit mconnel plan.

[bu villain]

As I said before, if you are angry at congressional Democrats I understand. I also stated that the President DOES have some responsibility here, just not SOLE responsibility. I don't know why there seems to be an assumption that I don't think Democrats are to blame for anything related to the fiscal crisis and that only the GOP is? Or that Bush is more responsible for his spending than Obama (I never even mentioned Bush). I just think its damaging and innacurate when people speak as if everything is so black and white when these issues are filled with messiness and shades of grey. There are more than 2 sides to political arguments.

Whether or not you think the concessions are too weak, at least some are being made. Can anyone tell me what deal the GOP proposes that gives the Dems something they want in return for something the GOP wants.

Additionally, can someone explain to me why there needs to be any deal at all. Why can't we just have a straight up or down vote on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling? Can't we argue about taxes and spending cuts for the budget separately without calling our ability to live up to our previously agreed upon obligations in to question? Just seems like playing with fire.

[Vteckidd]

Whether or not you think the concessions are too weak, at least some are being made. Can anyone tell me what deal the GOP proposes that gives the Dems something they want in return for something the GOP wants.

Well the dems have had unlimited spending in the last 3 years. The GOP isnt in any position to give any concessions. The economy has gotten WORSE and the debt is higher. The dems want to continue spending and raising taxes which hasnt worked YET. So the GOP is basically saying we did it your way for 3 years, its obviously not working, lets at least not spend anymore, and raising taxes will just hurt jobs even more.

I do agree that the GOP needs to agree to fix the tax loopholes and SOON, not a year from now.

Additionally, can someone explain to me why there needs to be any deal at all. Why can't we just have a straight up or down vote on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling? Can't we argue about taxes and spending cuts for the budget separately without calling our ability to live up to our previously agreed upon obligations in to question? Just seems like playing with fire.

The dems would like a up or down vote they could win. but they cant, because the GOP controls the house.

The GOP wont do a up or down vote because they want to use this as leverage to cut spending. They know obama needs to borrow more money , and by controlling 50% of the entity that can give him that, they are using it as leverage to get what they want, spending cuts.