Printable View
No one is questioning constitutional freedoms. I dont know where you liberals are getting this idea from. Maybe the same journalists that make up the jorno-list? People are against it because because of the perception and because it is definitely in bad taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
Show me the proof I am wrong. Show me the proof that a muslim culture to build a mosque over the site of a religious victory isnt real.Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
You happen to be one of those that simply goes by what the media tells them. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.
If this mosque was all about peace and unity like the imam says it is, why wont he even talk to the governor about another site? Do you think building it in a place where most people dont want it will help bridge gaps or expand them?
I dont care of muslims like it or dont like it. I have yet to see a unified message from the American muslim population condemning it. I have yet to see any kind of message from the muslim world condemning it. What we do have are massive celebrations all over the muslim world immediately after the attacks.
Are you in some way connected to this imam to know this? yea, didnt think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
Actually it would, as proven by the fact that 2 other mosques that are near the site have not even been discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
I am all for bombing schools when you have Hamas setting up their rockets on top of schools and hospitals. Do you think hamas cares about hitting a school or hospital?Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
Im just waiting for them to build there mosque, so that someone will fly a plane into there shit. Lets see how they like it...O yeah, I went there...
Im not up to date with what is going on, but from what little bit i have read on this. I dont mind the fact that they want to build this mosque at the location they chose, But to build it just to celebrate what they did to us, well thats just shitty of them. If that is the reason they are building this mosque.
I don't disagree with you on the point of building mosques on top of other holy sites, but in all fairness, Muslims aren't the only ones in history that have built religion buildings over the ruins another group or culture based around a particular religion, Christians were doing it long before them, but you failed to mention this in any post. But, you will continually state Muslims do it as if they are the only ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
I agree with you on the notion that this individual probably listens to the media and regurgitates that same statements as his own without any independent thought. Frankly, that is what is driving this whole mosque controversy in my opinion. One side says one thing and the other counters and vice versa and a large portion of Americans accept that as their own opinion without any independent thought, thus turning them into "sheeple".
Regarding the Imam, the reason why we can assume he doesn't want to move the Mosque is because he doesn't have to. If they choose to build a mosque on private property, with private funds, then the letter of the law says they can and there is little to nothing the state government can do about. The moment that he isn't allowed to, we have rewritten law(s) illegal, thus setting a precedent for future instances wherein if the public disagrees with something, the government can step in nullify any such action.
In all honesty, if it would make a difference to move it down, how much further down would it have to move to be ok? Is there any distance far enough? Can we honestly lie to ourselves and say that their is a distance which would make the mosque favorable? Because of the events of 9/11, there will continue to be a stigma aimed at Muslims merely because they are Muslims who are perceived as violent, mindless terrorists, hell bent on world domination, and for no other reasons. As long this perception continues, IMHO, it wouldn't matter where the mosque would be built, someone is going to have a problem with it as seen in Murfeesboro, TN. There were no violent acts committed in the area, no bombings, no Islamic fanatics marching the streets voicing to people to convert or face annihilation, but what it was was good ole American ignorance and fear directed at a group who wanted to build a mosque there and because of a now embedded stigma branded onto all Muslims, fear and ignorance prevailed in this instance. Until the day that changes, the stigma will remain.
Regarding Hamas, using schools and hospitals is disgraceful, but since they are not regulated by the Geneva Conventions (although the US hasn't signed to 2 of the provisions ourselves), as such, they can use their facilities as shields, as messed up as it is. They would rather be cowards instead of confronting their enemy head-on.
One of the main groups involved in this debacle is called "Stop the Islamification of America," so it stands to reason that they could build the thing in LA or Seattle and it'd still be too close to G-0 for them.
Heres a link to their upcoming 9/11 hate rally:
http://sioaonline.com/?p=452
I think pretty much everyone here agrees that gov't should not be involved in the decision, whether you think it should be built or not they have a constitutional right to do so and the gov't needs to stay out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bafbrian
A building that wasn't damaged during the attack would be less inflammatory to some people, but as you said, there are some people who will simply never be satisfied in any case. I chalk that up to blind ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by bafbrian
It's not just 9/11 that has attached a stigma to Islam, and Muslims in general. The majority, if not nearly all, of large scale terror attacks or attempts over the past decade have been carried out by Islamic extremists. That is what has attached a stigma and instilled a fear of Islam in many people, especially those who follow mainstream media and do nothing more that regurgitate talking points.Quote:
Originally Posted by bafbrian
How is calling me a liberal and questioning where I get my information helpful at all in this debate? (Btw, I listen to right wing talk radio daily and never watch TV).Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
If the imam claimed this was a monument to terrorism I would agree the mosque is in bad taste. If I held all Muslims or Islam itself responsible for 9/11 I would agree the mosque is in bad taste.
Since I don't see clear evidence otherwise (only conjecture), I view this as reasonable Muslims trying to build a place of worship (and swimming). I am honestly trying to understand why the opponents feel the way they do.
Problem with this is, the guy didn't blow up the building screaming, "For JESUS!!!!!" None of the people who were Christians claimed they did it in the name of Christianity. (I'm not Christian, I'm just stating an obvious fact) Whereas, the terrorists that were Muslim stated they were doing in the name of Islam and Allah. Get what I'm saying?Quote:
Originally Posted by bafbrian
I do hold the muslim religion as a major contributor to the attacks on 9/11 as I do with just about every other terrorist attack over the last 3 decades.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
No you arent because there has been plenty of reasons that people are against this site and you simply ignore them and change the subject. You, and those like you, say anyone that doesnt want it there is a racist/biggot/whatever else. I am friends with a couple of muslims, one of them very devout, and they are perfectly ok with my beliefs. I dont trust muslims as a whole and probably never will. They have earned that mistrust and until they do something to earn trust back I will continue about my ways with no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
So because of a few individuals bad choices, you can hold an entire group of people for it? and saying that nearly 1/4 of the worlds population has the mind set as that...Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
1. I wouldnt call it a few individuals, it is entire facets of the religion. Considering you have the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qeada and on and on all wanting to see Americans die for no other reason than they are American.
2. You call suicide bombing a bad choice? What about setting up silkworm rockets on top of schools and hospitals? Just another bad choice? I would hate to see what you call murderistic mindset if trying to kill as many people as possible a bad choice.
3. Yes, I am saying that 1/4 of the world's population has that mind set.
Any other stupid questions?
Sorry for the dumb questions, I only asked because you have gone around and meet me and every single muslim and seen how we all think.
how about you do some one on one with Muslims and ask if they support everything that happens with Al-Qeada, or what happens on 9/11.
thats like saying oh because an gang of African American killed a white guy over some silly reason that, that the whole black population is bad.
Because I dont care to. I have seen what I need to see from the muslim religion. Not every muslim is a terrorist but a high enough percentage of them are, or at least sympathize with them that I do not trust them.Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
BTW, your pathetic attack on Israel now makes sense. Funny how you found a reason to bring up their bombing of a school, but forget to mention the silkworm missile launchers that are being used on the roof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
Not at all. Now if that gang, along with 20 or 30 other gangs were purposely hunting and killing white guys AND they all went to the same church/school/YMCA then you have a point. I would believe that anyone that goes to that same church/school/YMCA is bad.
Are you going to kill me now and be like the guy that called Boortz on thursday and threaten to kill him for calling islam a violent gutter religion cause I agree completely with Boortz on this.
Kill you? there you go with the stereo typing again, i could honestly give a shit less what you think. but all this shows you level of ignorance.
well you know that stereotypes are simply an exaggeration of common facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by cm7k24
I find it funny that with everything else I have said in this thread, the only things you take the time comment on are my personal opinions and not any of points I made.
I can understand that, but we cannot hold an entire religion accountable for the actions of a few individuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM onlyy
That has to be the most idiotic statement I have seen. I can only imagine that you do that same in all aspect of your beliefs, you take the actions of a few and hold and entire group accountable, yet you didn't seem to have the stance when discussing the Tea Party Movement and the racist signs. You claimed that the few people who had the racist signs were not representative of the Tea Party, yet you won't grant Islam the same latitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
What empirical evidence do you have to support that claim? Or is it yet another biased assumption?Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Ok now we are getting somewhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Until your last post, I have never heard a single major opponent say their feelings were based in mistrust of all muslims. Now that you have made it clear, I understand why you feel the way you do (even though I don't feel the same way). Also, please point out in any post I ever made where I called you a racist, bigot, or any other deragotory term.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Thanks for your honesty. I wish we got that much from our elected officials.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Looks like the Onion just did an article about Jimmy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Man Already Knows Everything He Needs To Know About Muslims
[article]
"I almost gave in and listened to that guy defend Islam with words I didn't want to hear," Gentries said. "But then I remembered how much easier it is to live in a world of black-and-white in which I can assign the label of 'other' to someone and use him as a vessel for all my fears and insecurities."[/article]
http://www.theonion.com/articles/man...ow-abou,17990/
Congrats, bro! :goodjob:
Dont get the facts twisted. My mistrust of muslims has little to do with my opposition to this mosque. One of my major problems is that their publicly professed reasonings doesnt line up with the facts. They say they want to build it to show solidarity and to help bridge the divides between muslim and American cultures, but their actions go completely against that. If you want to bring about a measure of good will you dont tell someone "this is hows its going to be and I dont care if you like it or not". Do they have that right? Damn right they do and as mush as I am against the mosque, I am FAR more against that kind of abuse by the govt.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
Maybe I am confusing you with someone else, but the fact still remains that anytime someone speaks up against Obama, against this mosque, in favor of the AZ immigration law, they are called a racist. Hell, these days the only thing you have to do to qualify as a racist to the lefties is be conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu villain
I believe you will find strong bi-partisan support from anyone outside the beltway or state establishments in this area.
I agree with this 1000%. In my personal opinion, many of the "*educated" people who are against this mosque feel this way, (*people who research, not just regurgitate talking points). They absolutely have the right, and as far as that goes, I as well would rather see a mosque there than the gov't exercise such power to stop it. For me it's an issue of respect, not rights and/or gov't control. That sets a much more dangerous precedent than this mosque does.Quote:
Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
I say we fly a plane into it during service hours,then maybe they will show some respect.
\
|
I guess you're volunteering yourself to pilot the plane, then? Why don't you pitch that plan to the FBI... I'm sure they'd love to hear more about it.
HAHA !
I say build it.
I was born and raised in New York, and to be honest I really don't give a shit either way.
I don't see whats the problem with it.
Why don't you kill yourself too? Worthless piece of shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by integra938
[QUOTE=BanginJimmy;39109523]I do hold the muslim religion as a major contributor to the attacks on 9/11 as I do with just about every other terrorist attack over the last 3 decades.
Usually, I agree by what you say on your discussions but this statement has to be stupidest I have ever read by you...
Rofl, this is by far THE most ignorant thing i've ever seen written on Import Atlanta since i've been here.Quote:
Originally Posted by integra938
You sir, must wear an ass for a hat on a daily basis. I would agree with the volounteering of yourself to pilot the plane comment but the level of your ignorance and stupidity would exclude you from even beginning to understand the complex controls of an airplane. I am actually suprised you can even drive. Such stupidity is usually kept under wraps in a basement or in an asylum.