Interesting Discussion on Beliefs

[Browning151]

How can we fight against beliefs when the belief holders won't change their beliefs even after presented with contrary facts?

Everyone slices, dices and slants the facts their way to some extent, some people more than others. You personally have to be able to read several points of view and determine a truth by listening to what is being said and discerning what is fact and what is exaggerated. That requires someone to have some intellectual ability, and sadly most people who attempt to debate politics only do so by repeating what they hear from Olbermann, Matthews, Maddow, Beck, O'rielly, Hannity etc. To have true open debate you have to educate people, and by that I don't mean educate them on what one side or the other stands for, but educate them on how to discern fact from fiction. People don't know how to research, gather facts, evaluate them and then draw a conclusion based on ALL of the information, plain and simple, and that won't be changing anytime soon. If anything this country is headed in the exact opposite direction of everyone attacking everyone else based on what they hear in the media and nothing ever getting accomplished.

[bu villain]

I agree that our educational system is very bad at teaching critical thinking. Most schooling is nothing more than memorization of facts and rules. Of course with the pay we give teachers, we can't expect the quality to be that high. Even the good teachers are forced to focus on test scores too much.

However, I don't think education is the whole answer either. Many politicians are very intelligent people but are to worried about straying from their parties. Likewise, commentators on TV and radio are paid for pushing a one sided point of view. Those who are loud, obstinent, and degrade their opponents are celebrated and those who calmly listen to multiple views, admit grey areas, and are generally kind, respectful people get marginalized. I feel this is an increasing trend where entertainment value trumps moral value. Or maybe its just that anger and fear are stronger motivators than compassion and understanding.

[Browning151]

I agree that our educational system is very bad at teaching critical thinking. Most schooling is nothing more than memorization of facts and rules. Of course with the pay we give teachers, we can't expect the quality to be that high. Even the good teachers are forced to focus on test scores too much.

However, I don't think education is the whole answer either. Many politicians are very intelligent people but are to worried about straying from their parties. Likewise, commentators on TV and radio are paid for pushing a one sided point of view. Those who are loud, obstinent, and degrade their opponents are celebrated and those who calmly listen to multiple views, admit grey areas, and are generally kind, respectful people get marginalized. I feel this is an increasing trend where entertainment value trumps moral value. Or maybe its just that anger and fear are stronger motivators than compassion and understanding.

Gov't schools are designed to produce good gov't subjects, not to teach us how to really understand our gov't and know what is best for us. We are taught that gov't knows best for the most part, which is part of why we have so much of a welfare state now but I digress, that's a whole other debate. My comment wasn't aimed so much at the education system as much as the laziness of the general population who have no desire to understand things that actually influence and to some extent control their lives. Let's face it, we live in a Hollywood society. Who blew who and who went to rehab is more important to most Americans than what their elected representatives are doing that determines the long term welfare or failure of our nation as a whole. How do we change the celebrity worship mindset? I'm not sure where we could even start.

[bu villain]

Let's face it, we live in a Hollywood society. Who blew who and who went to rehab is more important to most Americans than what their elected representatives are doing that determines the long term welfare or failure of our nation as a whole. How do we change the celebrity worship mindset? I'm not sure where we could even start.

Yeah this is a difficult issue. Maybe this is why so many people are content to just pretend like they know all the answers to every issue and then call others who don't agree with them names. Getting informed, having an open mind, and engaging in respectful debate is not only too much work, its not as exciting as reality tv.

[Browning151]

Yeah this is a difficult issue. Maybe this is why so many people are content to just pretend like they know all the answers to every issue and then call others who don't agree with them names. Getting informed, having an open mind, and engaging in respectful debate is not only too much work, its not as exciting as reality tv.

Like they say, "ignorance is bliss." Most people have absolutely no clue as to what is going on, and don't care to ever learn because, as you said, it's not as exciting as reality tv. I honestly think it is going to take some very drastic and "painful" things to happen to ever open many peoples eyes.