Truth Hurts???

[Total_Blender]

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I agree with you on general principle that people should be made accountable for for abuses of the system. I think where we differ is how that should happen. The conservo-douche crowd is seeking to see this out by cutting out the social support system altogether rather than seeking reforms that make it work more efficiently.

Instead of cutting out these programs altogether, why not push for more verification and more prosecution of fraud when it happens? I think thats what the original intent of the original poster probably was, but to compare poor people to "stray cats" is like an insult to the most basic human dignity.

As for charts, figures, etc. v/s what you "see everyday," do you ask everyone you see rolling up to the weave shop in their escalade if they are on welfare? Whats a 40 year old man doing at a weave shop anyway?



As far as the people on these programs who do spend irresponsibly, I think they should work to better identify those people and put them on a mandatory budget where DFACS pays for basic necessities like housing and utilities directly to the landlord and the utilities instead of handing them a check.

LETTING them just walk away w/o taking any responsibility?

Its easier for them to get on social services than it is for them to get the fathers to pay up... not saying thats right I'm just saying thats the way it is, they take the path of least resistance. Also, when the dad is in prison or living under the radar with no name or address available theres not any money to get. A reform here would be closer co-ordination between DFACS and child support enforcement to do everything possible to get the child support before resorting to welfare. If they made it to where the system prioritized child support over welfare, men would be more careful.

[Jaimecbr900]

I agree with you on general principle that people should be made accountable for for abuses of the system. I think where we differ is how that should happen. The conservo-douche crowd is seeking to see this out by cutting out the social support system altogether rather than seeking reforms that make it work more efficiently.

Reform??? That is a political term used which means, "Let's ACT like we're gonna do something, talk about it, show-boat about it, and tell all the stupid people we're doing something about it.....and then at the end, when I'm re-elected back to my position, we'll just shove it under the rug where it was when we started or until I need your stupid uneducated vote again in 2-4yrs..."

Keep your "reform"....on the shelf, right next to your pretty little idea that Gov't should be everyone's savior instead of holding people accountable for their own actions.

Instead of cutting out these programs altogether, why not push for more verification and more prosecution of fraud when it happens?

Who said anything about cutting out anything? We totally agree that police(ing) public assistance programs is the logical answer. Problem is that all those with a hand out won't ever let that happen. Know why? Because they have others, like you, believing all the hype and lies. So now, it's not only their votes/voices/request but also YOURS too. Compounding the never ending cycle of abuse.

There are way too many people believing the lies, most of which have never stepped foot in a court room to hear excuses for bad behavior, seen someone pay for groceries with Food Stamps only to get in their shiny new car in the lot outside, nor had someone walk up to them to try and fraudulently sell you their Food Stamps to get money to buy crack. Reality is far different than what your little media outlets would have you believe. Again, this is where first hand experience trumps nice little Gov't school books.

I think thats what the original intent of the original poster probably was, but to compare poor people to "stray cats" is like an insult to the most basic human dignity.

Some of "these" people your heart bleeds for are actually worse than stray cats. Atleast stray cats don't know better. Some of these people know exactly what they are doing.

As for charts, figures, etc. v/s what you "see everyday," do you ask everyone you see rolling up to the weave shop in their escalade if they are on welfare? Whats a 40 year old man doing at a weave shop anyway?

No smarty pants, but I have dealt with and been in many people's homes where they have "public assistance" in one shape or another (from Welfare to SSI to disability to Section 8), yet they have a shiny new car in the driveway with no job and nice weave in their hair. Yep, I don't have to go into a weave shop to see with my eyes who has one.

Flip that coin......have you personally gone and questioned all those people who come up with your nice little neat charts???? Yet you believe them, right?

As far as the people on these programs who do spend irresponsibly, I think they should work to better identify those people and put them on a mandatory budget where DFACS pays for basic necessities like housing and utilities directly to the landlord and the utilities instead of handing them a check.

Again, your inexperience shows.

They do have this. It's called Section 8.

Its easier for them to get on social services than it is for them to get the fathers to pay up... not saying thats right I'm just saying thats the way it is, they take the path of least resistance.

So you're defending LAZY people......got it. Then give them YOUR whole damn paycheck if you think they're so worthy.

Also, when the dad is in prison or living under the radar with no name or address available theres not any money to get

They knew how to find each other to screw, right? They can find them again if they WANT to. Funny how sooooo many millions of other men pay their child support every month, pissed off as hell at times, and they don't live anywhere near their children. How's that happen?

A reform here would be closer co-ordination between DFACS and child support enforcement to do everything possible to get the child support before resorting to welfare. If they made it to where the system prioritized child support over welfare, men would be more careful.

Again with your "reform".

You have to have someone INITIATE child support for the courts to be involved. They don't have gov't cars driving around with bull horns asking people if they need help collecting child support. When the woman, as you clearly stated above, sits on her ass and it's EASIER for her to file for public assistance than it is to do the RIGHT THING......welllllllll, now we've come nice and tidy full circle back to the original point......

The bottomline is that just like success breeds success, failure does the same. If you want different results, you have to DO something DIFFERENT. If we keep making it easier for people to get hand outs than do the right thing......guess just what they'll do. It's not rocket science.

[Total_Blender]

You have to have someone INITIATE child support for the courts to be involved. They don't have gov't cars driving around with bull horns asking people if they need help collecting child support. When the woman, as you clearly stated above, sits on her ass and it's EASIER for her to file for public assistance than it is to do the RIGHT THING......welllllllll, now we've come nice and tidy full circle back to the original point......
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I think we agree on more than we disagree on here. Its true that the mothers have to initiate child support and most don't because its easier to get welfare... thats what I said in my post earlier. What I'm saying is why not change that and make it a pre-requisite that you have to go through the process of applying for child support before you can apply for welfare, and then only give welfare to those whos needs can't be met by child support?

Also, the reason these people have so many nice things while they are on welfare probably has as much or more to do with credit fraud than welfare fraud. You might see a nice furniture, an escalade with 24's, etc one day and the repo man knocking on the door the next.

I don't mind govt assistance programs for those who NEED it. I would love to see a welfare to work program where the state will either help you find a job or put you to work doing community service things in order to ween the people off of the system.

I've said this many times in these discussions, but nobody ever pays attention to the real content of my posts because I'm a communist lefty.