I actually have to disagree with this, even though saying that "all blacks are good runners" or "all asians are good at math" or "all mexicans are great at landscaping" even though there may have a positive connotation to these statements, they are still stereotyping. Stereotypes can be both positive and negative but aren't necessarily accurate.Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
Are all black people good runner? Are all Asians good at math? Maybe some are, but not all.
politics....1
So what dont you agree with?
you said, "Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. It has nothing to do with abilities."
All those things are abilities people might have, so it has to do with what you said as well as categorizing people based on a races sterotypical abilities, it is still racism
Jimmy,
You know you and I are pretty much always on the same page, it could be possible that I am just misinterpreting what I am reading
I think you said it right when you mentioned prejudices, but prejudice is just as ignorant as racism.
I agree completely.
You know what though and I was talking to my fiance about this the other day and I really appreciate you saying that. Your bolded statement.. while spewing from someone else not as educated as yourself would be prejudice the statement itself does lead back to racism and the state of blacks today, and the reason why there does need to be a discussion and understanding of the past.
"Blacks are naturally good runners," well yeah, on the surface that is absolutely true, of course there are exceptions but generally you look at the demographics of the NFL and the NBA and you see that typically the most athletic and the strongest physically are typically black. But to understand the backbone of that statement requires an understanding of slavery and how blacks were treated in that time.
Being brought over from Africa and conditioning for slavery blacks were basically bred to be a certain way physically. For instance, high blood pressure in blacks today.. well the only slaves that actually survived coming over here were the ones who were able to retain water which meant they had a high level of salt in their blood in turn this became an evolutionary factor in blacks.
Back to the running thing, the weakest slaves were killed. They were useless so they didn't survive.. the physically strong were the ones left. The white slaveowners didn't know it at the time but they evolved an entire race within this country faster than their own. Equate it to the movie 300, how the Spartans only kept the strongest and the weakest never made it to adulthood.
The difference is, physically blacks evolved but mentally blacks regressed. Doesn't matter how strong you are if you are not of sound mind. This is why you see bankrupt black athletes today, while 90% of the team owners are not black. I was reading a story the other day that 75% of black athletes end up bankrupt within 5 years of leaving the sport in which they participate. Granted a proper upbringing would help remedy the problem but a look at the bigger picture, the past gives you a simple explanation.
Racism, prejudice, the dark history of this country.. all has to be engaged rather than sweeping it under the rug, with that engagement comes a clearer understanding and empathy for both sides.. And if you're one of those that feel you need to quote my every paragraph and rebut it, i wrote this to inform.. listen rather than respond.
Strangely, the dude who hit the nail on the head came from the least likely source. I was watching inside the actor's studio and saw this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljuPtyYKuWY
Nice mention of double consciousness, another subject I would know nothing about had I not studied it in depth, I've lived it but didn't understand it academically. It's either nobody comprehended or nobody cared.. I'm leaning toward the latter, they would rather rebut and debate.
uhh wow, its gotten crazy in here. im gonna post my points and take my ass to sleep.
im a black guy. i am by no means a racist. most of my closest friends are white and so is my girlfriend. if i get into an argument on the road and its a white guy chances are im gonna say something like punk ass white boy. am i sayin this out of hate for the white community? do i hate white ppl and the leader of the black panthers now? no. in this case i beleive u could have said anything and the guy would have wanted to fight. you coulda been black and the outcome would still be the same. i dont see y ur so hurt about this comment and dont say ur not cuz if u wasnt it would have been eating at you so bad to where u had to make a thread of your "racist" experience. shit the way i see it there wont be any black or whites 100 years from now cuz im fukn farmer johns daughter and shes having my baby:idb:
ridin in a honda
Damn, Tony. I hate when you ignore my posts. Later, QD.
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VTECKIDD...in all seriousness....what's your point? don't get me wrong, while i understand that this is a 'legitimate' issue, it's apparent that you're only digging for something negative. hell...it took you a few pages/post to get someone to "say what you're looking for" (your words...not mine).
you don't give a damn about racism as a topic or discussion. you only wish to perpetuate the issue, by joining the same group (black & white) that you pretend to have such disdain for. you said it yourself, you were looking for the attention of [black] people on this forum who have complaints about racism towards black people.
while i do agree that knowledge starts with ignorance....you're pushing the envelope, and it's a little insulting.
I can't say that I have lived my life in the double consciousness of a Black person, but I know what its like to feel like you can't be fully integrated with a group because I've had experiences like that being an atheist in a family/culture dominated by Christians.
For those who don't understand "African American," history is not the same for everyone... if you read John C. Calhoun and Fredrick Douglass you'll see two wildly different accounts of the same time period and the same events. Its not that either one or the other is wrong, its that their accounts are shaped by their own unique beliefs and preceptions. The problem is that as a culture, we tend to try to roll up history into a cohesive package we can put into a single textbook. And since our society has a White/Male/Christian majority that is usually reflected in the finished product.
The Black experience of history and what it means to be Black is left for Blacks to discuss amongst themselves for the most part, and thats what double consciousness is about. Having built a culture for themselves that was seperate from America's dominant social/political culture for most of America's history (400 years if you counting the time since the first slaves were brought to the British colony of Jamestown in 1607) save the past 40 years when they were guaranteed equal rights.
History is not a single cohesive narrative, and we are not a single cohesive people. The way to become more cohesive, is to examine the narratives outside the mainstream. Rather than asking Black people to "get over it," we should examine their narrative and the culture they have created for themselves and consider that before passing judgement.
I don't agree with Al Sharpton or Jessee Jackson, but I do believe that they are just as entitled to their opinions and their rights to free speech as the White people I disagree with like Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck.
I think we should start a new thread with a new topic.
Maybe something about how the flood is being handled. Maybe I will start that if I get a few extra minutes.
I'm not going to respond to the comments on racism versus stereotyping in effort to keep on topic. Instead I will rephrase my idea in a hopefully unambiguous way...
Enough people (of pretty much every race) have at least some racist/stereotypical/etc viewpoints, often unconsciously, to have an effect on the opportunities of an individuals success. The effect is not the same for all races or on all individuals within that race.
Racism is such a thing of the past now-a-days. we dont have segregation anymore, we dont have slavery. Its just like hitler in germany ( kind of ) its just best too not talk about it. but while were on the subject why in school do they have the asian club, or the black club, what about the united negro foundation? those are racist organizations that when it comes to the bottom line they judge by race. if i were to start a white club it would automatically be labeled as racism but you still have the asain club and there not considered racist. why is this? because its a bullshit subject that is 40 yrs old. time too move on..
and as for the word ******. i know it was slang back in the slave days as a insult to the black race but why do young black men say it all the time. if your so offended by the word then you shouldnt promote it you dumb fuck words have the same meanings no matter whos mouth they come out of.
I remember asking the same question to group of black boys when i was riding the bus, they kept saying it over and over after every sentence so i turned around and asked if its so offensive why do you call each other by that name and why is it so different for me too say it...you know what there response was...cause im black and your white...needless to say i ended up getting into a couple fights that school year because everyone thought i was racist...my best friend was black how could i had been racist? im done with this subject its stupid anyways
idk there are alot of smart asians out there. did you know that its a disgrace to your family in japan to flunk school. there are suicides every year over report cards. there too rough on those kids
Read history. In regards to "black clubs" - Black Student Alliance, NPHC, BGLO's, NSBE, NABA, etc.......all started because at the time, white socities did not allow african american/black participation. Black fraternities, black universities, black gov't all started becuase whites did not allow black folks. There is no racism in those orgs; never have they turned away any other race, creed, or color for admission. They don't feel they are better, they do not spread hate, they don't really give two shits. What they DO care about it uplifting people, community service, youth empowerment, and ensuring people had a brotherhood/sisterhood where they were accepted.
Still to this day, if a black person trys to join a few of the "white" social/greek frat/soror, they are 1) turned away on BS, 2) accepted, which leads to national headquarters shunning the chapter.
There is a difference, but people fail to understand cultures, and why certain things are they way they are. Starting a "White" something is being ignorant and not looking as to the reasons why black, asian, hispanic groups were formed.
Ok I had to respond to this one because this is exactly what I am talking about. You obviously are educated and intelligent but here are three reasons I believe this is prejudiced thinking:
1. You assumed physical conditions were the sole decider for survival. Intelligence could have been used to avoid death for example. Smaller people require less food to survive, etc. Remember, slaves were cooks, nannies, other house servants and served many other purposes than just laboring in the fields.
2. A vast majority of whites during those times were also extremely poor manual laborers and there was relatively little upward mobility (ie., most of the time their sons and grandsons would also be manual laborers). Since the number of such white people would outnumber the slave population, they should be close to equally represented in the physical arena today.
3. Even if your logic was 100% correct, you are describing only a percentage of black people. In reality we have almost no idea if a black person on the street today or in the NFL for that matter decended from African slaves (unless they know their heritage and inform you of it). In America we have had continuous African immigration since after the fall of slavery.
So while your analysis does has some effect on today's population of blacks...I would say it is probably minimal and doesnt come near to accounting for the discrepency in their representation in sports. It's much more likely that social/cultural factors play a much bigger role than genetics (think about the number of black ice hockey players for example).
in other words evolution through the years? makes sense ive thought the same before and it makes total sense
your right about the creation of the organization but if a white person tried to join that group the same thing would happen, which is why i said racism is bullshit to begin with.
and why dont they change the name? black people have the same opportunities as anyone else why should there be a united negro foundation why dont they change it too united people foundation? because they believe that blacks should only be allowed to use the fund this is racism plan and simple we dont live in the 60s no more. there is not need for a united negro foundation or any race oriented group when you have colleges that already provide funds for anyone.
no matter what you can not deny that those organizations are considered racist and if i tried to join a black club they would say no, why because im white. racism pure and simple. now there is a fine line between Nazism and racist
Nazism is groups like the KKK, or obviously the nazi party. both think they are superior to other races
Racism is discrimination , judgment, and categorizing of people by skin color.
Im sorry but any group that turns someone away because of skin color is a racially ran organization . that includes every asian club, latino club, all of them are racist. and will always be considered racist, because they categorize people by skin color and will only allow that certain skin tone to be admitted into the organization. that is what i like to call blind racism, they dont see how racist they are
Last edited by civillac; 09-25-2009 at 02:18 PM.
So if someone says "That man is sexy", it has the same meaning to you whether or not they are a man or a woman? "Crying children should be beat" should be responded to the same way whether a teenage or a parent of a young child says it? The person making a statement and the context of the situation cannot be removed from interpretation.
Didn't read my post huh?
Twist the question, why SHOULD it be changed?
i was saying if they dont want to be considered a racist group change the name, and hey if you think im sexy thanks man i feel better about my self..
you child beater!
Not true.....Whites and hispanics have joined the NAACP, National Society of Black Engineers, Black Greek Letter Organization, etc.....
You are assuming sir, and you clearly do not understand racism.
Let me school you just a little bit more:
Q: Does UNCF only support African American education?
A:UNCF was founded to address inequities in the educational opportunities afforded to African Americans. UNCF believes in higher education opportunities for all Americans. UNCF-member schools do not discriminate and UNCF-administered scholarships are open to all.
Q: What is the relationship between UNCF and its member colleges?
A: UNCF was founded by the presidents of private historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) to make a collective appeal for support to the nation on their behalf. Today, 39 HBCUs belong to UNCF. UNCF provides member institutions with operating support that (a) enables them to keep academic programs strong and tuitions affordable, and (b) provides last-dollar scholarships to help students overcome the financial barriers to attending college.
Q: Do students have to attend a UNCF-member college to receive financial support?
A:No. UNCF provides support to students at approximately 900 colleges across the country—including almost all public and private historically black colleges and universities—and other schools including Harvard, Princeton and MIT.
You see, I have been down this road, discuss it everyday, and have argued both sides because at one point I did not understand. Anyone can access all "black" orgs and societies.
The extreme is the New Black Panther Party (like the KKK), and orgs like it. If you ain't black you are not getting in, and if you are not black enough you aint getting in, lol.
Seriously, research the countless articles and discussion on the topic. The names of these historical institutions, socities and funds will not change due to what they stand for.
Perception based off ignorance of the subject at hand......i was saying if they dont want to be considered a racist group change the name, and hey if you think im sexy thanks man i feel better about my self..
you child beater!
Very true, and I seriously doubt a White person who really wanted to associate with these groups would be turned away. This person, of course, would probably have to approach said group in good faith and not in the spirit of being condescending/trying to prove a point.
And most of these groups that I have seen are all about being open to other races. The ones here on campus are always having events that are open to all. Most of these events have food, movies, art, etc and its usually free.
This is a topic that always gets brought up during these discussions... "how come Blacks can have Black ______ ". And really, these things are not about having a group thats "Blacks Only," as much as they are about having a forum that addresses concerns unique to the Black experience. I know there are a lot of historically Black colleges that are now admitting White students.
Yessir. I can't count how many seminars I've been to over at the AUC in Spelman and Morehouse. Saw a few white folks, but it was few and far between that were students. Later, QD.
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OMG what is this thead turning into?
From what I have studied, they always have. Like you said, the person has to inquire and want it.
I dont care about black colleges or organizations. If people prefer to hang around their own race, then more power to them. I know MANY people that prefer to only hang around people that share a similar back ground. For those people though, race isnt the deciding factor, its religion.
My issue is with the double standard. Imagine if McCain had this endorsement during the presidential campaign. Do you think he would have gotten the nomination or gathered 45% of the popular vote?
Obama had the endorsement of the NBPP, which is no different in substance than a white nationalist's endorsement. The difference lies only in race. In this country it is perfectly OK to be openly racist, just so long as you are not white.
How do you think the nation would have reacted if one of the poll watchers in bumfuck Alabama was dressed up in his KKK gear? Yet, outside of Fox, NBPP members with clubs at a polling place was nothing more than a passing remark.
The list of double standards goes on and on. Does this change what happened in the past? No, I know that the Jim Crow laws and the "separate but equal" laws represented the worst side of the US, but its time to forgive and move on. Giving legitimacy to these types of organizations only empowers them. Giving them any kind of voice empowers them. Empowering them allows them to attract a new group of impressionable people to spread their hate to. So I ask, when does it stop?
Last edited by BobbyFresco; 09-27-2009 at 06:50 PM.
For the forseeable future there will be racists and racist groups. As long as we have free thought and free speech, these people and groups will continue to exist and practice their racism. It is an unfortunate reality but that we must tolerate it if we believe on those free thought/expression principles. I think the best way to fight it is with education and respectful discourse. Telling someone they are stupid or that they should "just get over it" is not likely to change anyone's mind.
In regards to the double standard people are talking about, it's like a pendulum. We were too far to one side with racism and now the pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Hopefully it will eventually settle in the middle where there is no discrimination from either side.
Just got to live with it man. You would not believe how many times a day I get called a cracker because of my job.
I used to get called an "uppity N _ _ _ ER" at one of my past jobs at least once a week. When you turn someone down for a loan or a credit card over the phone, you really get to see their worst side. For the record, I'm not even Black. I guess people hear a deep voice over the phone telling them "no" and then they project the identity they resent the most onto it.
I get called cracker all the time by black folks. And I'm white! Later, QD.
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I'm from South America, most people just assume I'm black from N. America.
When I speak to people on the phone they think I'm a 35 year old cr...White Man.
People all make assumptions
I have never called a white peson cracker, I have never been called a NiNINENINEer (at least not to my face or around me)
People that are racist, prejudice usually have some for of self hatred, very unhappy life etc. etc. so to take someone like that seriously is slapping your own self in the face.
Leisa and S. 4 Life NM?
how was this a race card thing? he just called you a punkass white boy, big deal. I am glad that you didnt get out of the car because you never know what type of shit somebody could pull on you. he could have shot your ass.
You don't have to be so defensive, man. You know if you use (or someone uses against you) a color reference to another, then you're using it to incite more hostility. You're using it as a weapon. If I told you to "get your black ass out of my house" as opposed to "get your ass out of my house," you would be a bit more mad.
Now I'm not guaranteeing that is always the case, but I will bet that it is at 90% of it. Later, QD.
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I get where you are coming from, but it doesnt seem too racially motivated to me. he was smart to keep his head and not approach that guys vehicle though. folks nowadays are crazy, and will give it to you quick.
With the way the OP described what the guy did (how he was driving) and what he said, it sounds racially charged to me, but who know, you know. And I agree with OP not stepping out of the car. Later, QD.
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