Obama to announce auto mileage, emissions standards

[BanginJimmy]

tIts like with GM and their financial situation being based on the fact that they had so many gas guzzling trucks.

This couldnt be further from the truth. Detroit auto maker's financial troubles start and stop with the unions and the legacy costs imposed by the unions.

We cant expect to keep getting 500hp cars with 10 mpg, and expect gas prices to stay at a steady reasonable price.

Why not? At current usage we have several decades before we start to see any shortages in oil production. How about instead of shoving econo boxes down our throats whether we like it or not, the govt starts giving incentives to buy them?

Honda Civic base price 15,505 30mpg average
Civic Hybrid base price 23,650 42.5mpg average

Taking today's AAA gas price average of 2.314 and an average of 15k miles per year it would take you 24 years to break even. That doesnt even take into account the need for VERY expensive replacement batteries and other repairs that wouldnt be needed on a non-hybrid.

Lets look at another vehicle.
Chevy Malibu

standard base price 22,325 26mpg average
hybrid base price 26,275 30mpg average

Using the same criteria as above it would take 22 years to break even.

Why should I buy a more expensive hybrid when it would take more than 2 decades to break even on the investment? If the govt wants to force these cars down our throats they need to do something to make it economically prudent.

Look at the direct injection mazda motors you have 280hp 2.3 4cyls that will get you 25mpg, and the ecoboost twin turbo 6 with 325 hp with almost 30mpg. And the Ecotech that can make almost 300hp, and still do 28-30 mpg.

I'm not saying that the technology to make this happen will never be there. I am simply saying that in today's world the technology is not there, nor is it cheap enough to make it economically viable.

[JITB]

Why not? At current usage we have several decades before we start to see any shortages in oil production. How about instead of shoving econo boxes down our throats whether we like it or not, the govt starts giving incentives to buy them?

Honda Civic base price 15,505 30mpg average
Civic Hybrid base price 23,650 42.5mpg average

Taking today's AAA gas price average of 2.314 and an average of 15k miles per year it would take you 24 years to break even. That doesnt even take into account the need for VERY expensive replacement batteries and other repairs that wouldnt be needed on a non-hybrid.

Lets look at another vehicle.
Chevy Malibu

standard base price 22,325 26mpg average
hybrid base price 26,275 30mpg average

Using the same criteria as above it would take 22 years to break even.

Why should I buy a more expensive hybrid when it would take more than 2 decades to break even on the investment? If the govt wants to force these cars down our throats they need to do something to make it economically prudent.

not all these cars will have to be hybrids


As long as the manufacturer has them to offer, and the average be in the 35mpg range like tony stated. you can still have the 20mpg vette, with the 40mpg aveo. Its just gonna make companies have a set standard all across the board, instead of different emission standards for different areas. So the state manufacturers dont have to make changes for every different emission standard (california emissions), and the states wont have to fund the emissions.

there not being forced down anyone throats, car companies are gonna be given a basic emission guideline to go by all around..

[BanginJimmy]

not all these cars will have to be hybrids


As long as the manufacturer has them to offer, and the average be in the 35mpg range like tony stated. you can still have the 20mpg vette, with the 40mpg aveo. Its just gonna make companies have a set standard all across the board, instead of different emission standards for different areas. So the state manufacturers dont have to make changes for every different emission standard (california emissions), and the states wont have to fund the emissions.

there not being forced down anyone throats, car companies are gonna be given a basic emission guideline to go by all around..

No, not all of the cars have to be hybrids. I simply used them as a comparison.

Yes, you can have the 20mpg Vette, but then you need a 50mpg Aveo to offset it. What is going to offset the Camaro and the Silverado? 2 more 50mpg econo boxes that no one buys and are ugly as hell?

How are these standards NOT being forced down anyone's throat? Name a single benefit to the consumer or the car manufacturers.

[JITB]

No, not all of the cars have to be hybrids. I simply used them as a comparison.

Yes, you can have the 20mpg Vette, but then you need a 50mpg Aveo to offset it. What is going to offset the Camaro and the Silverado? 2 more 50mpg econo boxes that no one buys and are ugly as hell?

How are these standards NOT being forced down anyone's throat? Name a single benefit to the consumer or the car manufacturers.

each class has their own standard of mpg. cobalt gets 35mpg as is, malibu has a 40mpg hybrid, escalade also does, they have a hybrid silverado's etc.. Its all there already, which is why none of the manufacturers are complaining about this.. its actually a good thing for them, to be able to build cars based on 1 standard instead of different emission type cars for different regions.

[BanginJimmy]

each class has their own standard of mpg. cobalt gets 35mpg as is, malibu has a 40mpg hybrid, escalade also does, they have a hybrid silverado's etc.. Its all there already, which is why none of the manufacturers are complaining about this..

There are hybrid options for those vehicles, but they arent economically viable. As I have stated, it will take more than 22 years to break even if you buy a Malibu hybrid (30mpg average) and about 24 years for a Civic(42.5mpg average).

The best mileage in a cobalt is the LS model which gets 31mpg average. Cars are fuel efficient as they are. Making much higher mpg requirements will only drive the costs of those vehicles higher. As it is, cars will cost an extra $1300 on top of inflation increases because of this.

its actually a good thing for them, to be able to build cars based on 1 standard instead of different emission type cars for different regions.

I agree here. Having a single standard for all 50 states is good for the manufacturers, but it does nothing to help sales or profitability.

[JITB]

Making much higher mpg requirements will only drive the costs of those vehicles higher. As it is, cars will cost an extra $1300 on top of inflation increases because of this.

all i can say about that is........all you engineers start putting your applications at GM, and chrysler...

But i here what your saying, i need to read about this thing some more to see about what your bringing up.

[BanginJimmy]

all i can say about that is........all you engineers start putting your applications at GM, and chrysler...

Yea, automotive engineers willing to work at a ST12(~85k/yr) salary are going to be in very short supply.

But i here what your saying, i need to read about this thing some more to see about what your bringing up.

The math used to figure out those numbers is kind of sketchy and I really dont understand them so I just went with the figures presented in the article. Judging by our govt's ability to predict future prices though, it will probably be MUCH higher. Maybe even as much as 200% or about 4k.