straight from the army times, but it's ok

[preferredduck]

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/0...ucker_032809w/

troops in samson alabama from the army times, so here is proof to back up the next link, they even admit it can be illegal depending on certain wording put in play by mr bush in o6 and 08.

http://www.infowars.com/army-times-r...nt-in-alabama/

there are actually pics of them in the street, wouldn't a state authority silmilar to the GBI come in instead of army MP's or army medics.

[Bballjamal]

Which is unconstitutional according to The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 forbidding use of Federal troops from domestic operations, but I doubt anyone cares lol.

[NAMNORI]

Fortunatly even it Posse Comitatus is disabled troops can decide to put down thier weapons and not be charged with any crimes, because they can claim religious belifes against killing man and the military can't do a damn thing to them, that would be our one saving grace.

[BanginJimmy]

Fortunatly even it Posse Comitatus is disabled troops can decide to put down thier weapons and not be charged with any crimes, because they can claim religious belifes against killing man and the military can't do a damn thing to them, that would be our one saving grace.

What the hell are you talking about? Posse Comitatus statutes are above individual soldiers. An individual soldier that follows orders are not in violation of anything. Only those that give the ordrers would be.

In this case, unless these articles forgot to mention a few things this situation skrits the grey area but if anything it leans on the legal side of that grey area. All the troops were doing was directing traffic and doing site secuirty. From the Army Times article and was somehow missed in the other article:

The soldiers, he said, were in Samson for about three hours and were assigned to direct traffic flow at five intersections. Some helped keep sightseers away from the worst crime scene, where six of the victims’ bodies lay on a porch, including an 18-month-old baby.

What Ward didn’t want, he said, was for anyone to sneak up and get a picture of the bodies, and the soldiers watching the crime scene were instructed to inform the police if that was in danger of happening.

Someone please tell me where the law enforcement is in those things. I have directed traffic before and I have done site security before and I am not a cop, nor have I ever been a cop. The article also said that the troops were only there for about 3 hours to give the local police time to get food. This sounds to me like a local Sheriff and a base Provost Marshall with a great working relationship.

[preferredduck]

What the hell are you talking about? Posse Comitatus statutes are above individual soldiers. An individual soldier that follows orders are not in violation of anything. Only those that give the ordrers would be.

In this case, unless these articles forgot to mention a few things this situation skrits the grey area but if anything it leans on the legal side of that grey area. All the troops were doing was directing traffic and doing site secuirty. From the Army Times article and was somehow missed in the other article:



Someone please tell me where the law enforcement is in those things. I have directed traffic before and I have done site security before and I am not a cop, nor have I ever been a cop. The article also said that the troops were only there for about 3 hours to give the local police time to get food. This sounds to me like a local Sheriff and a base Provost Marshall with a great working relationship.

should not have even happened is the point. it's also softened a bit for the army times, hey northcom is also in north dakota right now. and a soldier can disobey an order if it's unconstitutional and there will be no problems for the soldier, i have seen them interviewed and most would not fire on the US public, but others are too far gone to realize what they are doing is inhumane. the moral of the story is army MP's should not be at a civilian crime scene doing ANYTHING!!!

[BanginJimmy]

Why shouldnt it have happened? The MP's offered their assistance and later in the day the Sheriff CALLED BACK and accepted the help doing menial, non-law enforcement duties. Would you rather have no one doing the job? No one directing traffic, and no one securing crime scenes? Even if you think it shouldnt have happened doesnt make it illegal either.

A soldier can disobey an order if it is an illegal order, not if it is unconstitutional. That is not a soldier's duty. An example of an illegal order would be to fire on a peaceful protest, an unconstitutional order would be one like this. Those MP's had no legal authority to refuse to comply. That Lt.Col that gave the orders has that duty, those MP's did not.

What interviews have you seen that a soldier has said he would not fire on the US public? What circumstances is that under? I will tell you for a fact that either you the interviewer is using creative editing. Who is too far gone to realize that what is inhumane? If you mean firing on the US public, I will assure you that they will shoot to kill if that order is given if they are fired upon or otherwise threatened. If they didnt they all need to be executed for disobeying a lawful order.

[preferredduck]

Why shouldnt it have happened? The MP's offered their assistance and later in the day the Sheriff CALLED BACK and accepted the help doing menial, non-law enforcement duties. Would you rather have no one doing the job? No one directing traffic, and no one securing crime scenes? Even if you think it shouldnt have happened doesnt make it illegal either.

A soldier can disobey an order if it is an illegal order, not if it is unconstitutional. That is not a soldier's duty. An example of an illegal order would be to fire on a peaceful protest, an unconstitutional order would be one like this. Those MP's had no legal authority to refuse to comply. That Lt.Col that gave the orders has that duty, those MP's did not.

What interviews have you seen that a soldier has said he would not fire on the US public? What circumstances is that under? I will tell you for a fact that either you the interviewer is using creative editing. Who is too far gone to realize that what is inhumane? If you mean firing on the US public, I will assure you that they will shoot to kill if that order is given if they are fired upon or otherwise threatened. If they didnt they all need to be executed for disobeying a lawful order.

active duty army should not be in the streets, national guard is iffy for a shooting. we have the FBI, GBI(in georgia), CIA, and if i remember correctly whn brian nichols went on a shooting rampage the army did not come help. it was a "good gesture" from the army times standpoint for them to help the officers, i can understand that. but i'm sure 14hrs later some SWAT team and state agencies should have been there helping out. we will leave it as another way for people to just get used to it, kind of like roadblocks. the army has done checkpoints before for some really lame things like town fall festivals and shit i think that was in albama too. the soldier inteview stated more of a moral issue with shooting someone. it all depends on the circumstances but legally if the order is not "constitutional". it's whether the soldier actually knows that or has been dumbed down not to know. thats like obama making an order for all army infantry to go door to door shooting everyone who ever poster the "obama sucks" on the internet and the order was given and followed the chain of command to the little guy who pulls the trigger. hey what abt cheney's little j-pac (or j-poc not sure) assasin group that reported to him. i have been hearing a lot of that latey and i think it's been around a while sadly i think that shit reallt happens.

[Total_Blender]

active duty army should not be in the streets, national guard is iffy for a shooting. we have the FBI, GBI(in georgia), CIA, and if i remember correctly whn brian nichols went on a shooting rampage the army did not come help. .

Samson, AL has a population of about 2,000 people. It is in the "Dothan metropolitan area" which only has 66,000 people. And that covers 3 counties.

Compare that with Fulton County which has a population of about one million.

I would imagine that Samson is one of those little speed-trap towns that has maybe 3 or 4 officers. And its down in BFE away from the major cities. I am certain their local force was not prepared to deal with anything that large (15 victims, 9 different crime scenes, was the guy acting alone?, etc etc). Whats the harm in letting some Army folks direct traffic and handle crowd control?

Its not like Atlanta where they are trained to deal with shit like this and we have APD on every corner.

[BanginJimmy]

active duty army should not be in the streets, national guard is iffy for a shooting. we have the FBI, GBI(in georgia),

We agree here, but in this case, the local police did not have the manpower to respond correctly. Neither article says why state agencies were not called. The FBI has no legal justification to step in without a formal request for assistance and FBI agents are not going to be directing traffic.

CIA,

CIA has no legal right to work within US borders.

and if i remember correctly whn brian nichols went on a shooting rampage the army did not come help.

Not at all the same circumstances, but I am sure that if there were not enough cops in Atlanta at the time that MP's from Dobbins, Oglethorpe or wherever would have been happy to direct traffic and call a cop if someone tried to get too close. Didnt you notice in the articles where they said that the MPs were to get a cop if someone got too close, they were not told to stop them theirselves?

it was a "good gesture" from the army times standpoint for them to help the officers, i can understand that. but i'm sure 14hrs later some SWAT team and state agencies should have been there helping out.

It said in the article that they were only there for 3 hours.

the soldier inteview stated more of a moral issue with shooting someone.

If someone has a moral issue against shooting someone then they shouldnt be in the military. Just like you shouldnt be a cop if you have a moral objection to shooting someone. This still doesnt explain the circumstances of the interview you are paraphrasing, or a link to it.

it all depends on the circumstances but legally if the order is not "constitutional". it's whether the soldier actually knows that or has been dumbed down not to know.

Oh please explain how soldiers are being dumbed down. This should be funny as hell to read.

thats like obama making an order for all army infantry to go door to door shooting everyone who ever poster the "obama sucks" on the internet and the order was given and followed the chain of command to the little guy who pulls the trigger.

That is a question of legality, not constitutionality as I have already explained.

hey what abt cheney's little j-pac (or j-poc not sure) assasin group that reported to him. i have been hearing a lot of that latey and i think it's been around a while sadly i think that shit reallt happens.

I would love to see a respectable source for this. All I could find was conspiracy theorists sites for it. J-SOC does exist though. It is a part of Special Operations Command that works with foreign militaries. They do things just as advisors and trainaing.

[Total_Blender]

You OMGALEXJONESMARTIALLAWNWOGIMMEMOREMETHSOICANSTAYAW AKEBECAUSETHEYWILLTAKEMYGUNSIFISLEEP nutcases will see the soon see FEMA respond to what is going on in North Dakota and you'll see what these "concentration camps" are really for (coordination of relief/recovery efforts). It seems like the gov't is finally getting more proactive about responding to disasters like Katrina. I mean they have known a disaster was going to happen up there for more than a week. So of course there are "boots on the ground" ahead of time to help with relief/humanitarian efforts.

[preferredduck]

first i will say we have all been "dumbed down" by TV, video games, and our own education system. why do you think there are sooo many things out there to distract us, drugs and booze included. speaking of which i think some students already get checked for depression and put on a drug that messes with the chemicals in your head and this is decided by an appointed official. i need to try and find the video interview of the soldier, it was a random video i found and i dont think i bookmarked it. my father could explain it better than i can b/c he is retired military. they may not have been there long but i disagree with their presence, a state agency should have already been there and i don't think the army should call offering help, it's the other way around. atlanta was a bad comparison to a small alabama town i know. there is one respectable source for the J-SOC issue, i don' remember his name but they have used it a lot on the news lately abt this matter. i think he is from minesota or spoke of it up there recently. i do think the gov't has it's own assasins and has had them for a while, the older version is a cia jackyle(however its spelled). there is a video where an ex cia op talks about all this in the 80's b/c he was apart of it and is finally speaking out about it.

[BanginJimmy]

1. If there was a CIA assassin that spoke up, he would already be dead by those same assassins.

2. The govt does not have its own assassins. If they wanted someone killed it would be cheaper, easier, and more deniable to use 1 of the tens of thousands of mercs that are out for hire the world over.

3. I am military also, NG now and 9 years AD in the Marine Corps, and the military actually encourages you to become better educated both in a classroom sense and in a world events sense. They arent dumbing anyone down.

4. People are dumber these days because teachers are evaluated by the number of students passed, not the quality of the students passed. This is why you are constantly seeing testing made more lenient, and you never hear of testing becoming more difficult.

5. The current liberal thinking is that no one is dumb, they just have a learning disability that can be fixed with drugs. The same is true of bad kids, it isnt their fault, they have ADD. Most of these cases do no require drugs, they require proper discipline.

[preferredduck]

j-socs wouldn't be a gov't employee, more like a merc or contractor exactly as you say it would not be easily traceable to the gov't either. we have blackwater in the US to call at anytime. actually blackwater was already in new orleans before the national gaurd made it, and rich people had hired isrealy muscle to watch thier estates. the public education systyem is badly borken, my ex-wife and i were both offered better education through the military but didn't make it. seriously we are ranked like 27th in education in this country, so you start there and add in mind numbing and dumbing tv for hours a day to keep us occupied and distractedh recently has proven it changes the state of our brain kind of relaxing it in a way. i'll have to find the article for you i found it kind of interesting. so let me ask you in 6mos to a year the economy collapses and you see wierd shit going on, what would you do, obey orders and kill fellow innocent americans or would you walk away saying this is not right at all.

[BanginJimmy]

so let me ask you in 6mos to a year the economy collapses and you see wierd shit going on, what would you do, obey orders and kill fellow innocent americans or would you walk away saying this is not right at all.

As I have explained several times and you have ignored, I would have a legal right to disobey an illegal order and VERY few members of the military would differ in that reasoning.

Oh and those people that say they are going to start fighting the military the first time they see one in uniform, They are simply ignorant and will only force the military to fire on them. Just like in NO after katrina when the NG was shooting at civilians that were shooting at rescue boats and helicopters.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/...per/index.html

[preferredduck]

As I have explained several times and you have ignored, I would have a legal right to disobey an illegal order and VERY few members of the military would differ in that reasoning.

Oh and those people that say they are going to start fighting the military the first time they see one in uniform, They are simply ignorant and will only force the military to fire on them. Just like in NO after katrina when the NG was shooting at civilians that were shooting at rescue boats and helicopters.

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/...per/index.html

you are correct firing on the military would be a bad thing, shooting at boats and rescue choppers is not a good idea either. very good answer to my question. i may have it worded differently than how you say it, but thats tyhe meat of what im talking about. seeing foriegn military on US soils makes me wonder but i have not seen much proof of that, though it's been mentioned a few times. i figured most soldiers would be like you and would not fire on americans unless provoked(ie shot at etc). i watche the "rioting at the G20 summit and everyone that got roughty seemed to be covering their face and had a hood on while other protesters nearby were like WTF and they are saying a man died at the protest. the good part is im not anti military and anti law enforcement, honestly the two professions don't get paid enough, but if they are somehow manipulated into some BS then i won't like it. BTW have you been deployed, they thought abt sending my dad to desert storm years ago right before he got out if that shows my age. speaking of katrina i know blackwater was there from the get go, some people claim of explosions near the levy(could have been anything really) and a reporter had a run in with them before the national guard was there. remember the british MI-5 people that were caught by US troops in Iraq shooting at americans and causing a lot of problems. they were detained, then released with a big apology and then nothing. check into that, sometimes the enemy is a false one, but your gut instinct can sometimes give it away.

[Total_Blender]

. speaking of katrina i know blackwater was there from the get go, some people claim of explosions near the levy(could have been anything really) and a reporter had a run in with them before the national guard was there. remember the british MI-5 people that were caught by US troops in Iraq shooting at americans and causing a lot of problems. .

Provide non-Alex Jones/infowars/WND/Stormfront/etc sources for this information. I am curious on how you know Blackwater was there when I am 99.99999999999998% sure that you were not there yourself witnessing it first hand.

Insinuating that Blackwater was in N.O. blowing up levies is not a claim you want to make without something credible to back it up.

[preferredduck]

Provide non-Alex Jones/infowars/WND/Stormfront/etc sources for this information. I am curious on how you know Blackwater was there when I am 99.99999999999998% sure that you were not there yourself witnessing it first hand.

Insinuating that Blackwater was in N.O. blowing up levies is not a claim you want to make without something credible to back it up.

i never said blackwater was blowing anything up. i have read things claiming that and it was not found on any of the sites you listed above and honestly you can't believe everything you read. as far as blackwater being in new orleans i'll have toi find the video, done by a reporter, which has the claim of blackwater being there. they are a military contracted company that has trained muscle etc, so natural assumption would be they were there. the MI-5 claim made headline news a few year ago but was swept away quickly, i'll see what i can dig up on it. do you not notice a lot of the things on "jones" website has a link to the site it was from, 80% from mainstream media outlets. what do you think about US guns going to mexico and causing violence, it's BS and honestly what you see on TV is dilluted and fit for TV.

[BanginJimmy]

Blackwater has been doing high end site and personal security in the US for quite a few years. Such as the millionares that hired them to protect their estates when they evacuated. Also, you can throw in the businesses that hired them to do security for warehouses during the evacuation.

As far as them being there before the NG, that is easy, they were hired before the hurricane hit and many of them were already on the ground before the hurricane. A private person or business can work MUCH more quickly than the govt can, thats just a statement of fact.

[preferredduck]

Blackwater has been doing high end site and personal security in the US for quite a few years. Such as the millionares that hired them to protect their estates when they evacuated. Also, you can throw in the businesses that hired them to do security for warehouses during the evacuation.

As far as them being there before the NG, that is easy, they were hired before the hurricane hit and many of them were already on the ground before the hurricane. A private person or business can work MUCH more quickly than the govt can, thats just a statement of fact.

not only was blackwater there, some estate owners had isreali mercs gaurding their estates. i understand they can get there quickly, but we are talking about contracted civilians who have the authority to fire an american citizens, there has been a lot of contoversy aroung blackwater's actions and iraq.

[BanginJimmy]

not only was blackwater there, some estate owners had isreali mercs gaurding their estates. i understand they can get there quickly, but we are talking about contracted civilians who have the authority to fire an american citizens, there has been a lot of contoversy aroung blackwater's actions and iraq.

You want a list of everyday people that are contracted with the authority to fire on American citizens?

1. Armored car drivers/loaders
2. Any other armed security guards
3. Correctional officers (most states do not require CO's to be mandated officers, GA is one of those states)


What is the diference between blackwater and any of those listed? The only one's I see is that they also do their work in combat zones, and they hire very intelligent people.

The issues over in Iraq are nothing compared to what US personell have done in this and other conflicts. They are getting more flak though because they are contracted in an unpopular war. We wont even get into what other armies/mercs ahve done to US troops.

[preferredduck]

You want a list of everyday people that are contracted with the authority to fire on American citizens?

1. Armored car drivers/loaders
2. Any other armed security guards
3. Correctional officers (most states do not require CO's to be mandated officers, GA is one of those states)


What is the diference between blackwater and any of those listed? The only one's I see is that they also do their work in combat zones, and they hire very intelligent people.

The issues over in Iraq are nothing compared to what US personell have done in this and other conflicts. They are getting more flak though because they are contracted in an unpopular war. We wont even get into what other armies/mercs ahve done to US troops.

i get an idea of what other folks do and most of the "news" we see here is watered down BS and we don't get the real story. in iraq you can't tell if a civilan is good or bad until they blow themselves to peices which is dirty if you ask me. i can see some instances where they would be good, but others i do not. i am really against US soldiers in the streets, according to some other things i have seen they had a homeland security roadblock in tennessee tonigh actually with army MP's there. and other folks are saying a lot of troops have been in alabama recently, and these drills where the army is used is getting out of hand, basically a whole town has a 48 hour drill, something just doesn't seem right, i mean drills are ok, but only to a certain extent.

[BanginJimmy]

got any proof of these drill or is that also being covered up by the media?

Put simply, everything you say is complete BS. Conspiracy theorists like you have no real life and no real grasp on reality. You take one case where a small detachment of MP's backstops a small town police force with a major crime and turn it into martial law. Get over it, or you could leave the tyrannical United States.

[preferredduck]

http://wnws.com/newstalk/?p=1157

this is a clip from a cancelled DHS and army "seat-belt checkpoint from tennessee that was supposed to occur saturday night and the rep and governor were involved.

[NAMNORI]

That's one reason i don't go to most meets. i hate seeing dumbasses doing shit like that that puts a negative image on the CAR community like that

[preferredduck]

That's one reason i don't go to most meets. i hate seeing dumbasses doing shit like that that puts a negative image on the CAR community like that

amen to that, everytime i have gone to one years ago we always saw mr. 5.0.

so did anybody listen to the radio clip about the homeland security checkpoint in TN and it being cancelled.