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Thread: Disintegration of the USA??

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    Senior Member SL65AMG's Avatar
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    Default Disintegration of the USA??

    Id like to see some opinions on this.

    MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.
    [Prof. Panarin]

    Igor Panarin

    In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

    Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

    But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

    A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.

    "There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

    Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

    In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.

    Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."

    Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.

    Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.

    The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."

    In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.

    "When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."

    At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.

    He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

    California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

    "It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.

    Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.

    Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."

    The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

    For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.

    The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html
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    bang Danny's Avatar
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    Interesting. I know CFRs plan includes break down of the US in 2010, but the division looks nothing like the one by this Perino guy. Might have to do a little research on him, see if he has any credibility. Honestly it sounds a little outlandish to say the least, but then again... most things do until they actually happen.
    "The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."

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    umm are we taking bets b/c i'm in on this one.... so China, Canada, European Union, Mexico are going to share the US

    If this guy thinks the south would be owned by Mexico I guess he forgot where slavery began.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    umm are we taking bets b/c i'm in on this one.... so China, Canada, European Union, Mexico are going to share the US

    If this guy thinks the south would be owned by Mexico I guess he forgot where slavery began.
    Think of it more as a "quiet takeover" and it makes more sense. All the Illegal's in the Southern states, the Europeans in the NE and the Asians in Cali. The ethnic groups already own tons of this countries land and resources.
    Whats so crazy about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    umm are we taking bets b/c i'm in on this one.... so China, Canada, European Union, Mexico are going to share the US

    If this guy thinks the south would be owned by Mexico I guess he forgot where slavery began.
    im in too, especially if its for 2010. the only thing i could see happening would be the NAU, but thats completely different.
    "The 1911 is a collection of subsystems that must work together. Each part must be prepared and fit properly not only in and of itself, but also with regard to the other parts with which it must operate for the gun to function and appear as desired."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny
    im in too, especially if its for 2010. the only thing i could see happening would be the NAU, but thats completely different.
    ya just too many holes in this idea...

    canada = ???, really this puzzled me the most

    mexico = uneducated, how would they even be able to organize the suggested

    china = depends on US economy considering we probably have the largest consumer based economy in the world

    beyond anything for a country so diverse like the US we are very proud people and we wouldn't let any of the above happen.

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    This has got to be the most retarded post about the economy I have ever seen...you can't actually think this is logical can you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Baller
    This has got to be the most retarded post about the economy I have ever seen...you can't actually think this is logical can you.
    if you're a communist it is plausible

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    This is funny. I have to admit that things in this country are not 100%, but Im not gonna start shooting neighbors or try and invade the north. This already happened once if you remember and it didnt work then. This Russian just wants to get some attention. BTW how did he get so specific with the map predictions? What does he think he knows?

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    Senior Member jfman's Avatar
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    What makes him think the canadians even want part of the US. If any part, we'd take over florida for a retirement community lol!

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    Yea, remember, we're not actually the USA anymore. In 1929 when the stock market crashed the Native Americans bought us out with pine cones and leaves.


    Some people will believe anything they read or hear. At our current state I don't see this happening in ONE year AT ALL.

    Bozzio for president.

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    Senior Member | IA Veteran Elbow's Avatar
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    LMFAO

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    STILL HERE!! tron's Avatar
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    to OP-man i just know feds are gonna raid your crib..lol

    im moving out west i love me some Asians
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    lol @ Alaska going to Russia, I don't care who wrote the article if they believe that (and are from Russia) they're fucking stupid. The U.S bought Alaska for like 7 cents on the dollar at the time and it is a gold mine to the economy.

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    Senior Member SL65AMG's Avatar
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    yeah this guy seems a bit out there.....it seems pretty unrealistic to think that this kind of thing would happen a year from now
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    the whole mexico and canada taking over parts of our terriority made me lol IRL and I can't believe anyone could even take this serious for a moment.
    Last edited by TIGERJC; 01-01-2009 at 01:06 PM.
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    He may be right about all of the civil unrest and I will even go out on a very long, thin limb and say civil war. What holds absolutely NO water is the break-up of the US. China will not make any advances into the US. They need us FAR more than we need them.
    If Europe tried to influance anything, it would be in favor of a stable US. They need us to protect them from the neighborhood bully.
    Mexico cant even manage its own people, why would they want to take over parts of the US?
    Canada is just laughable.

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    Senior Member SL65AMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanginJimmy
    He may be right about all of the civil unrest and I will even go out on a very long, thin limb and say civil war. What holds absolutely NO water is the break-up of the US. China will not make any advances into the US. They need us FAR more than we need them.
    If Europe tried to influance anything, it would be in favor of a stable US. They need us to protect them from the neighborhood bully.
    Mexico cant even manage its own people, why would they want to take over parts of the US?
    Canada is just laughable.
    i would agree with you here...
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    x2 i seriously dont see this happening because at some point you gotta think exactly what kind of state the rest of the world would be in after a us collapse. I mean our stock market sank and took hlaf the world with it. I dont see this as a plausable idea unless another major superpower other than russia were to step up and fill the power gap. Like china or maybe india due to population trends but then again that is a LONG shot at best. i see civil unrest definitely but I mean when its all said and done the markets should recover and actually may be stronger because people are going to be more aware of what they do with their money from now on til something like this happens again

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    Senior Member SL65AMG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0p7!mu5
    x2 i seriously dont see this happening because at some point you gotta think exactly what kind of state the rest of the world would be in after a us collapse. I mean our stock market sank and took hlaf the world with it. I dont see this as a plausable idea unless another major superpower other than russia were to step up and fill the power gap. Like china or maybe india due to population trends but then again that is a LONG shot at best. i see civil unrest definitely but I mean when its all said and done the markets should recover and actually may be stronger because people are going to be more aware of what they do with their money from now on til something like this happens again
    lets hope this doesnt happen ever again.....


    but thats a joke, people are idiots and more and more of them are birthing more idiots..... were doomed
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