Obama vs. Plumber

[joecoolfreak]

All this wishy washy going back and forth is truly amuzing.

Let's see:

Let's see just which one of all of you has EVER run/owned their own business.......show me hands......

I have. I also currently work for a small S corp that certainly falls into the businesses in question.

I'm going to make up an "article" about how turds come out of space and go INTO your butt crack and suddenly someone somewhere is going to use it as a "statistic" or "study"......

Bottomline is pure common sense:

If you tax the upper 5% MORE than they already have to pay, they are simply going to figure out a way to either A: hide more of their income and keep CHEATING just like the rest of us, or B: not be able to HIRE any more employees in order to maintain a certain level of income. Use you head folks. Put YOURSELF in their shoes. YOU own a successful business. YOU pay yourself $250k/yr. YOU now can afford to pay 5 employees a decent salary and STILL take home $250K/yr. Yall still with me? Ok, NOW tell that same business owner that next year he/she is going to have to pay MORE of their income to taxes because Obama said so......what do you think he/she is going to do? Are they going to be able to HIRE anyone else? If you think so, explain how when his/her costs of doing business just went UP. What's going to REALLY happen is one of the two things I mentioned above. Do you think someone who makes $250K/yr is going to run out and SELL his/her vacation home, MB, or tell little Johnny that he can't have that F1 go-kart he wanted for Christmas????? Hell to the no. They're going to figure out how to KEEP what they have and hoard the rest. Which leaves WHAT to be invested, spent, or other wise used in the general economy???? LESS is what.

I can agree to that to some extent, but let's turn that same situation around. What happens if you reduce the tax load on that same person. Are they going to hire more people? NO. Are they going to invest more in the business or economy? NO. They are going to do the same think you think they are going to do. They are going to "hoard" the extra money that they get to use your own words.

So let me get this straight: A person who already pays MORE than what the average American MAKES in an entire year in taxes all year long is the same person you guys want to ask to pay yet MORE next year to cover for WHO?????? The ones that either don't pay at all or very little????? Okie dokie. Again, put yourself in their shoes. They didn't get to make $250k/yr by being stupid, right? So they're going to figure out ways to maintain their way of life and simply say "screw everybody else, including Uncle Sam". Wouldn't you? Well, those same business owners are the exact ones that HIRE folks. Think about that. HIRE FOLKS. So what do you think is going to happen when they DON'T HIRE FOLKS???? Now, factor in the FACT that we are in deep caca in just about every single segment of the job market. Hell, Pepsi......multi BILLION dollar PEPSI is laying people off by the hundreds right now.......so what do you think is going to happen to small businesses that aren't doing as much business as they once were AND you want to tax the owners on top of that MORE??????? Yall can't be that dumb, right?

I really do have a problem with this trickle down supply side of thinking. If it's bad for the big guys, then it's worse for the little guys. The worse it gets for the little guys, the worse they make it for the big guys. If the little guy is paying so much of his income that he can't afford to pay bills, he isn't going out to buy pepsi. That is why pepsi is doing poorly in the first place. If you raise the taxes on the people that CAN afford to still pay their bills, they don't go hungry. They don't stop enjoying their lifestyle. They just don't keep getting richer as quickly. PLEASE, stop assuming that if we give breaks to the big guys, they will pass on the benifits to the small guys. It has never happened, and never will.

This is not a math equation. It is a common sense equation. You take out the top wage earners and top tax payers and all you have left is the bottom 95% of people that pay little to no taxes. So you're left with what? No companies hiring, no companies making profits to possibly invest INTO the shitty economy, and you're left with folks that just hold their hands out.......GREAT UTOPIA.

Nobody is talking about giving the tax money from the rich to the poor here. That is a very unfair assumption. We don't have enough money coming into the government to pay for roads, public education. Hell, we don't even make enough to pay the interest only on our national debt, much less pay anything down. This is not weath redistribution. This is a simple fact that we have spent more than we have and now somebody has to pay the bill. There is only one side that has enough money to pay the bill, so guess who gets stuck with it? Is it fair? NO. Is there another way. No again.

BTW, 99% of business owners don't own a business with any intentions of ever selling it, so Capital Gains is a big BS marketing ploy. They pay NO Capital gains now, and 99.9% EVER do. So that's like giving an Eskimo a discount on ICE......pffft, there's FREE ICE all around them, right?.....same thing here. Matter of fact, small businesses (especially right now) are more likely to go UNDER all by themselves due to the market conditions than they are to be "bought" by someone else. Again, look at the realistic side and common sense side of things. Why would ANYONE buy a failing business? Why would anyone sell a productive business? The REAL side of life is that if you are making money, especially now when everybody is losing money, then you are more than likely going to stay right where you are keep making money. If you are like 90% of everyone else losing money hand over fist......just what the hell do YOU have to offer anyone that's worthy of buying???? It's easier for someone like that to just ride it out or file for bankruptcy on the whole damn thing. Why would you sell your business for pennies on the dollar and STILL KEEP debts you don't have money to pay off????

Now I would have to ask you...have you ever bought, owned, or started your own business? I don't know where you got the statistical numbers on this one, but EVERYONE I know who has ever started or bought their own business did so with the intention of selling that business for a profit. Are there some family owned businesses that are trying to create a legacy for their children? Sure. Are they the majority? Absolutely not, much more so the minority. That was the entire Dot Com model. Produce a great product from startup and sell as soon as the company had potential to turn a great profit and keep going. Many small businesses are traded just like stocks.

People need to use their heads and think about things. If none of you have ever owned your own business and paid the gov't thousands in taxes every single quarter or sat down to balance a business account to see where all your money is going.......then quite frankly you need to STFU and quit talking like you "know" what's going to happen when Obama starts taxing the shit out of business owners because you really have no clue.

Again, I have been in this boat, so won't really address this one.

BTW, the Fair Tax argument is really no argument. How can anyone that has really thought about it ever think it won't net more revenue? Think about your own tax returns. How many times did YOU CHEAT on your own taxes to get a bigger return or less to pay????? You think you're the only one doing that? Ummm, no. So that's just the people that are actually PAYING anything. Now, factor in all the millions that PAY nothing already. Now, look at how much revenue you would have just out of those people that DON'T PAY at all now that can't get around paying something anymore. That alone adds up to billions I bet. Now, just think about those people making decent money that suddenly can either buy more or invest more because they take home 100% of their check.......how many BILLIONS do you think that adds to be????

To be completly honest, I agree with almost all aspects of the Fair Tax proposals. The one thing that does worry me is that with America's obsession with spending more than their means(being in credit), that the tax itself will make things less affordable simply because they will be paying finance charges on so many taxes that they aren't now. It doesn't change the revenue standpoint, but might not be so easy to handle economically for your average taxpayer. That can certainly be attributed to the stupidity of our culture, but I will leave that for another day.

Yall are all nuts.

The feeling is quite mutual sometimes ;-)