Since Mike couldn't answer (RedGT, willum14pb, JConner, someone???)

[stephen]

all i know is that my job which i work for a small business owner which files an income tax greater than 250,000 and this came from his mouth, he is worried he cant stay afloat with the purposed tax increases that obama wants.... which he laughed when he heard that obama was cutting capital gains taxes on small business owners.... what is the problem with that..... they don't pay capital gains taxes wtf?!?!? all i know i am voting for mccain bc i am afraid for the small business i work for... they have been real good to me i want them to stay in business and dont want to see 30 plus years of building a business go down the drain so some family can get welfare **** that...

i believe mr.kidd posted it up...but it's also been posted in a number of different articles....but the AVERAGE tax increase from the $227k-$603k range is an additional $12. not to mention, this increase only affects PERSONAL INCOME...not business income. if the company was being built for the past 30 plus years, then this increase won't be any higher than the level it was at when reagan was in office (28 years ago). not to mention, reagan CUT TAXES (like mccain is proposing), and ended up having to raise them 6 TIMES to keep us from tanking. also if your heard obama was cutting capital gains tax...then he heard wrong...he's increasing it. based on all of that...then your boss doesn't seem to have too much to worry about...

to stay on topic, the tax issue isn't as black & white as some make it seem. what some people fail to realize is this country (like many others), was built on the backs of people who weren't given fair opportunities (due to sex, race, religion, etc.). here's someone who is promising (for ATLEAST the next 4yrs) to assist WORKING INDIVIDUALS, who struggle to afford the necessities in life, by skimming off of the backs of those who can afford them 10 times over. what's good for the goose is good for the gander...right?

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

also if your heard obama was cutting capital gains tax...then he heard wrong...he's increasing it. based on all of that...then your boss doesn't seem to have too much to worry about...

i told him that and obama said he would lower the capital gains taxes on small business owners..... i know as well as alot of educated people that small business owners doesn't pay capital gains taxes and if you still want to argue that obama didn't say this....

quoted from= http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Support Small Business

• Provide Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Up Companies: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will eliminate all capital gains taxes on start-up and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama and Biden will also support small business owners by providing a $500 “Making Work Pay” tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.

go read it yourself if you dont believe me


so taking your arguement and mine and puting them together he wants to raise the capital gains taxes on people like me, teachers and everyday normal people that have iras 401ks and 403bs and so on and so on.... so when we do retire and pull all that money out he wants to take money from the middle class worker to give back to the middle class worker so they can have a better life and pay the same amout for a gallon of milk so to speak.... makes perfect sence i can see it wow i just changed my vote i am goin to vote for the guy that is goin to secretly take from the middle class joe blow that doesn't have a job with a pension so another joe blow that also doesn't have a pension plan in a job other than a 401k...... yeah he really cares for that middle class if he wants to increase the capital gains taxes

[stephen]

i told him that and obama said he would lower the capital gains taxes on small business owners..... i know as well as alot of educated people that small business owners doesn't pay capital gains taxes and if you still want to argue that obama didn't say this....

quoted from= http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/
go read it yourself if you dont believe me


so taking your arguement and mine and puting them together he wants to raise the capital gains taxes on people like me, teachers and everyday normal people that have iras 401ks and 403bs and so on and so on.... so when we do retire and pull all that money out he wants to take money from the middle class worker to give back to the middle class worker so they can have a better life and pay the same amout for a gallon of milk so to speak.... makes perfect sence i can see it wow i just changed my vote i am goin to vote for the guy that is goin to secretly take from the middle class joe blow that doesn't have a job with a pension so another joe blow that also doesn't have a pension plan in a job other than a 401k...... yeah he really cares for that middle class if he wants to increase the capital gains taxes

ok, so i researched the capital gains tax issue a little harder. he does want to eliminate capital gains taxes on small businesses. small businesses CAN receive capital gains from selling shares...which may not apply to your job...which may void the arguement as it pertains to YOUR job.

as far as him increasing capital gains tax, he only wants to increase it on those who make OVER $250k a year. unless your 401k, 403b, etc. will increase your earnings to $250k...then you don't have a problem. also, he's increasing it by 5% (from 15%-20%)....on a $250k scale, that's going from $212,500.00 to $200,000....OH MY! I HOPE THE MILK AND FERRARI'S GO ON SALE! not to mention, have you looked into what the AVERAGE JOE BLOW'S income is once they reitre??? ever seen that 65+ year old man/woman working at your local burger king because their retirement plan isn't enough to afford to keep food in their mouth? once again...IT WILL NOT IMPACT THE MIDDLE-LOW CLASS INDIVIDUAL. do you currently have a 401k? how much money DID YOU LOSE (yes, if you have one you lost money) last week? and under which administration was this under...??? who supported this administration 3/4 of the time? will you be retiring within the next 4-8yrs? look at the whole picture...lol, not what YOUR BOSS wants you to hear. i can assure you, you're the least of his best interest.

to sit here an try to argue that small business revenue doesnt translate to PERSONAL INCOME is about as smart as arguing with a wall.

ceases to amaze me how you can seperate the two.

i had to think about this for a second (i actually deleted my first response). you're right, business revenue DOES translate to personal income. the thing that you're not getting is BUSINESS INCOME TAX has nothing to do with your PERSONAL INCOME TAX when applied to obama's plan. if you own a sole proprietorship, then you can relate the two (under sole proprietorship, they're one in the same). if your business has a tax id number, or is incorporated, then you file them separately. the only taxes that obama will increase are your PERSONAL INCOME TAXES if they're over $250k. all of the things 93lude mentioned are things that you can receive tax breaks on (most of them 100% even if you purchased them on credit) when applied to your business. with most small business owners, the idea is to make you personal income as low as possible...regardless of WHO is president. why do you think that is???

Jack Kemp had a great quote today
"This is not about making the RICH POORER, which is a class warfare tactic, this should be about making the poor richer. Unfortunetly we are in this "entitlement" society that thinks everything is owed to them and they shouldnt have to work for it."

lol, jack kemp!?! are you serious? the father of "reaganomics?" yeah ok

[Vteckidd]

lol, jack kemp!?! are you serious? the father of "reaganomics?" yeah ok

you mean prob one of the best and brightest business men of our time?

what you still dont get is that if my BUSINESS makes $400,000 and i paid me $250,000, then guess what, ill let you connect the dots

[Alan®]

Do you know what an LLC is? Do you know what an S-Corp is? Do you know how they are taxed? They are considered pass throughs. In other words any profit that the companies make is claimed as personal in come. Now why in the hell would anyone do that? Because for the most part it's cheaper to do so.

Taxes on small businesses would only go up $12? Wow ok. How about the raise on the payroll tax? How about eliminating the $90k Social Security cap? How about any of the other things that Obama has proposed that go directly on the backs of small business owners. If you honestly believe it will only go up $12, go start a small business and see how much in taxes you will pay under obama once you cross his threshold.

He heard wrong on the capital gains tax? Did you see any of the forums where he repeatedly said he would cut or eliminate Capital gains tax for small businesses? The guy doesn't have the slightest clue because he has never run a business.

What Obama is proposing is not skimming. It's taking a big fuccing chunk and then calling anyone who makes any kind of decent living evil.

this country (like many others), was built on the backs of people who weren't given fair opportunities (due to sex, race, religion, etc.).

And what people like you seem to FORGET is that this country was founded ON A TAX REVOLT! The Brittish taxed what were essentially the modern equvalency of small business owners to hell and back and what happened. They passed the tax on to the customers.

[tony]

Do you know what an LLC is? Do you know what an S-Corp is? Do you know how they are taxed? They are considered pass throughs. In other words any profit that the companies make is claimed as personal in come. Now why in the hell would anyone do that? Because for the most part it's cheaper to do so.

I've had an LLC, income CAN be claimed as personal income but you have a choice, it does not have to be claimed as personal. An LLC is basically a combination of an S-Corp and a General Corporation where you have the choice to act as either one.

All this posting and nobody has answered the question, WHO IS GOING TO FOOT THE BILL FOR THIS BAILOUT AND THE WAR? Simple question, it requires a simple answer.. someone will have to get their tax bill raised. Who will it be?

[BanginJimmy]

All this posting and nobody has answered the question, WHO IS GOING TO FOOT THE BILL FOR THIS BAILOUT AND THE WAR? Simple question, it requires a simple answer.. someone will have to get their tax bill raised. Who will it be?

Actually no one needs to have taxes raised to foot the bill. We just need to do a few simple things.

1. We need an economic conservative in office and economic conservatives in congress. Not going to happen. Congress is not conservative and we get an economic liberal in office no matter who wins the election.

2. Cut wasteful spending. $33B a year in medicare/medicaid fraud and they dont investigate 95% of fraud claims because they dont have enough investigators. More than 70B a year in contract fraud and excessivly high no bid contracts through the DoD.

3. CUT SPENDING. The US Govt hands out hundreds of billions of dollars every year to people that dont like us. These countries include: Iran in the form of oil profits, N. Korea in the form of crude and refined oil for more many purposes, China in the form of the trade deficit. We need to keep that money here in the US and in our economy.

4. Welfare needs to be completely discarded and re-written. Random drug tests to get your check. No more money for more kids. Time limits and additional money to pay for college. Those things alone would cut the costs of welfare in half within 1 presidential term. Get these leeches working and actually providing for themselves.

[tony]

Actually no one needs to have taxes raised to foot the bill. We just need to do a few simple things.

1. We need an economic conservative in office and economic conservatives in congress. Not going to happen. Congress is not conservative and we get an economic liberal in office no matter who wins the election.

2. Cut wasteful spending. $33B a year in medicare/medicaid fraud and they dont investigate 95% of fraud claims because they dont have enough investigators. More than 70B a year in contract fraud and excessivly high no bid contracts through the DoD.

3. CUT SPENDING. The US Govt hands out hundreds of billions of dollars every year to people that dont like us. These countries include: Iran in the form of oil profits, N. Korea in the form of crude and refined oil for more many purposes, China in the form of the trade deficit. We need to keep that money here in the US and in our economy.

4. Welfare needs to be completely discarded and re-written. Random drug tests to get your check. No more money for more kids. Time limits and additional money to pay for college. Those things alone would cut the costs of welfare in half within 1 presidential term. Get these leeches working and actually providing for themselves.

Okay, let me rephrase this question. Who REALISTICALLY is going to foot this bill, not a wishlist of policies that you think should be done to get things resolved. There is a lot I WISH the government would do but I know its not going to get passed. The government doesn't cut spending, that is not the nature of the business.

Again, someones taxes is getting raised, who will it be?

[Jaimecbr900]

As you can tell from my sig, I like the Fairtax. I know it isnt perfect in all aspects, but I have yet to find a single portion of it that isnt superior to the current system. When you tax consumption instead of wages you tap into a market that is not currently tapped into, such as the people who receive the bulk of their income from illegal or untaxed sources.
Removing taxes from businesses will allow them greater freedom to expand their business and create new jobs. It will also go a long way to (a) making American goods competitive on the international markets, and (b) bring more companies to the US as a tax shelter and easier way to tap into the worlds largest economy. Again creating more new higher paying jobs.

This is the only person that has a clue how a Fair tax/consumption tax works.

You no longer have ANY INCOME tax. You no longer have any payroll tax. No capital gains tax. No death tax. No double tax. No estate tax. NO TAX other than consumption.

So explain to me HOW the "poor", who BTW PAY LITTLE TO NO TAX NOW, are going to be any more "poor" if they are going to receive their entire paycheck (if they work at all) and then on TOP OF THAT will receive a monthly rebate check for necessities such as FOOD? So the gov't will PAY every month with REAL MONEY for you to FEED your family and YOU pay for what you use thereafter. You also have to consider the fact that all goods and services have an inbedded "tax" ALREADY on them, so therefore it's not going to automatically (as the Dems. want to portray it) raise sticker prices for everything 23%.

For example, an employer now has to pay someone $5/hr partly BECAUSE they have to pay payroll tax, FICA, unemployment, insurance, etc. So if you free up their additional tax burden, they will now be able to either A: Keep paying that position at $5 but be able to hire MORE employees; B: Be able to afford to RAISE that pay slightly and STILL make the same amount or more. Both win-win situations. Same thing will happen with the vast majority of goods and services since they too will no longer have the added taxes they pay now, which we all know are simply passed on to the consumer as part of the price of that good/service.

BTW, Obama wants to eliminate something that doesn't exist.....Capital gains on "small business". Small businesses pay INCOME TAXES, NOT Capital gains. So it's a total "now you see it, now you don't" scheme. It means absolutely nothing to small businesses. NOTHING. Much like telling someone that DOES NOT PAY TAXES NOW that you are going to raise taxes.......hell, what do they care....they don't pay taxes NOW, WON'T pay taxes later, so what do they care.....right? Same thing as the proposal that we are suddenly going to tax the "rich" to ease the burden on the "poor"......the "poor" DON'T PAY squat NOW, so why would they care? It's not going to bring one single dime back into any tax pool because all the "rich" are going to do is pass that "new" cost onto somewhere else......guess where?

[tony]

This is the only person that has a clue how a Fair tax/consumption tax works.

Understand that my first post wasn't against the Fair Tax, I've never been against the Fair Tax on anything other than the fact it requires the people to hold the government accountable on the 23% sales tax.. (what prevents the government from raising that rate) That is asking a lot of a nation of people who are more concerned with who Britney Spears is dating than tax policy.

[Alan®]

This is the only person that has a clue how a Fair tax/consumption tax works.

You no longer have ANY INCOME tax. You no longer have any payroll tax. No capital gains tax. No death tax. No double tax. No estate tax. NO TAX other than consumption.

So explain to me HOW the "poor", who BTW PAY LITTLE TO NO TAX NOW, are going to be any more "poor" if they are going to receive their entire paycheck (if they work at all) and then on TOP OF THAT will receive a monthly rebate check for necessities such as FOOD? So the gov't will PAY every month with REAL MONEY for you to FEED your family and YOU pay for what you use thereafter. You also have to consider the fact that all goods and services have an inbedded "tax" ALREADY on them, so therefore it's not going to automatically (as the Dems. want to portray it) raise sticker prices for everything 23%.

For example, an employer now has to pay someone $5/hr partly BECAUSE they have to pay payroll tax, FICA, unemployment, insurance, etc. So if you free up their additional tax burden, they will now be able to either A: Keep paying that position at $5 but be able to hire MORE employees; B: Be able to afford to RAISE that pay slightly and STILL make the same amount or more. Both win-win situations. Same thing will happen with the vast majority of goods and services since they too will no longer have the added taxes they pay now, which we all know are simply passed on to the consumer as part of the price of that good/service.

BTW, Obama wants to eliminate something that doesn't exist.....Capital gains on "small business". Small businesses pay INCOME TAXES, NOT Capital gains. So it's a total "now you see it, now you don't" scheme. It means absolutely nothing to small businesses. NOTHING. Much like telling someone that DOES NOT PAY TAXES NOW that you are going to raise taxes.......hell, what do they care....they don't pay taxes NOW, WON'T pay taxes later, so what do they care.....right? Same thing as the proposal that we are suddenly going to tax the "rich" to ease the burden on the "poor"......the "poor" DON'T PAY squat NOW, so why would they care? It's not going to bring one single dime back into any tax pool because all the "rich" are going to do is pass that "new" cost onto somewhere else......guess where?

Jamie this point has been argued to hell and back.

[BanginJimmy]

Okay, let me rephrase this question. Who REALISTICALLY is going to foot this bill, not a wishlist of policies that you think should be done to get things resolved. There is a lot I WISH the government would do but I know its not going to get passed. The government doesn't cut spending, that is not the nature of the business.

Again, someones taxes is getting raised, who will it be?

Realisticly NO ONE is going to foot the bill. We will continue to roll deeper into debt without a dramatic cut in spending. The source is highly biased, Neal Boortz, but he was on one of his fairtax rants and he mentioned that tax revenues would need to DOUBLE and it would still take 40 years to pay the national debt, and tax revenues would need to go up by 50% across the board just to have a neutral budget at current spending.

[josh green]

I make 24K and can hardly get by. But I can manage it. When all these rich folks can roll around and just buy sh!t, gas and so on and spend 200-500 a day. (One of my friends does this, rockin her Land Rover $120 dollars a day in fuel, and eating where-ever she pleases, while I'm at home... eatin my hotdogs, wonderin how I can afford a motor to install in my broke car. Behind on my rent and its my second fukin month.) But I kno that we gotz to work together to make this well. So my missing $341 or so dollars on my paycheck can only help us as a whole, not hurt.

Sounds like envy my friend, that lifestyle isnt "owed" to anyone, SOMEONE had to work for it. She may not be as well off as you think, it could all just be debt, and a front same goes for if her parents are paying for the stuff. You should have budgeted for the income that you bring home. Sounds to me that you are so tight in bills that you have no "fluff" for when you do NEED to buy car parts, or shoes, food, etc... You are essentially "overextended" like the people whom are being forclosed on. If you want that extra $341, then the fairtax is what you want!

I dont think anyone can answer the tax question that Tony has proposed, everyone is going to pay 1 way or another. I personaly dont mind paying proportionaly more for milk b/c of my income. Thats the whole point of making more money is to have more disposible income. If you make $20k a year and cannot make ends meet, you will have to do what it takes to afford to live within your income. TV isnt a necessity, internet, etc... No one wants to give up these things but to live w/out government aid, its what you may have to do. But when they will make up your shortcomings you can pay for tv while they continue to pay for your necessities.
There are also "weather" people who also work the system. My older brother went through a private school until he graduated and I remember my mom telling me about some of the moms not working b/c it allowed their debt to income ratio to remain high enough for them to attain financial aid. Thats pretty ****ty, especially when they are driving around in their suv's and "affording" nice things. Times like these you will see who was really well off and who was just fronting and racking up debt.
I agree with the fair tax completely. Like stated, it does have some flukes but its the best I have seen.

[Vteckidd]

All this posting and nobody has answered the question, WHO IS GOING TO FOOT THE BILL FOR THIS BAILOUT AND THE WAR? Simple question, it requires a simple answer.. someone will have to get their tax bill raised. Who will it be?

who you ask, its everyone. The only person propsing an increase in taxes is OBAMA.

Even now your boy is saying "we may have to curb some of my ideas" because the money JUST WONT BE THERE.

Hes propsing 1 TRILLION dollars in new spending and CUTTING taxes. The war saves him $300 billion a year, where is the other 700 coming from?

I cant believe you EDUCATED people cannot do the math and would rather just listen to the liberal talking points and the internet facts. oh well your loss.

This country was founded on entrepreneurship and hard work. Not this sense of entitlement.

The guy saying he only makes $20,000 a year and its hard, yeah, no SH!T i did it for 5 years. No what, i worked hard, i learned the ropes, and i took what i learned and went into business for myself.

EVERYONE has an opportunity, i REFUSE to believe that people are STUCK in the middle class.

But this is a society that wants to blame everything on everyone else, and lives in the here an now.

Your answer tony is last time i checked everyone pays taxes, and more money comes from your RICH than the poor. So the answer is the majority of the money will be paid by the Rich, sense they pay the most.

Whose taxes are going to go up? Under Obama EVERYONES. you can think this illusion of hes going to champion the middle class, but hes going to raise capital gains, hes going to raise death tax, ss tax, etc. repeat of clinton.

[Blitanicle99]

who you ask, its everyone. The only person propsing an increase in taxes is OBAMA.

Even now your boy is saying "we may have to curb some of my ideas" because the money JUST WONT BE THERE.

Hes propsing 1 TRILLION dollars in new spending and CUTTING taxes. The war saves him $300 billion a year, where is the other 700 coming from?

I cant believe you EDUCATED people cannot do the math and would rather just listen to the liberal talking points and the internet facts. oh well your loss.

This country was founded on entrepreneurship and hard work. Not this sense of entitlement.

The guy saying he only makes $20,000 a year and its hard, yeah, no SH!T i did it for 5 years. No what, i worked hard, i learned the ropes, and i took what i learned and went into business for myself.

EVERYONE has an opportunity, i REFUSE to believe that people are STUCK in the middle class.

But this is a society that wants to blame everything on everyone else, and lives in the here an now.

Your answer tony is last time i checked everyone pays taxes, and more money comes from your RICH than the poor. So the answer is the majority of the money will be paid by the Rich, sense they pay the most.

Whose taxes are going to go up? Under Obama EVERYONES. you can think this illusion of hes going to champion the middle class, but hes going to raise capital gains, hes going to raise death tax, ss tax, etc. repeat of clinton.

I always enjoy reading your posts concerning things like this. Thank you for standing up and typing this all out every time the kids have questions.

[josh green]

transaxle

[tony]

who you ask, its everyone. The only person propsing an increase in taxes is OBAMA.

Even now your boy is saying "we may have to curb some of my ideas" because the money JUST WONT BE THERE.

Hes propsing 1 TRILLION dollars in new spending and CUTTING taxes. The war saves him $300 billion a year, where is the other 700 coming from?

I cant believe you EDUCATED people cannot do the math and would rather just listen to the liberal talking points and the internet facts. oh well your loss.

This country was founded on entrepreneurship and hard work. Not this sense of entitlement.

The guy saying he only makes $20,000 a year and its hard, yeah, no SH!T i did it for 5 years. No what, i worked hard, i learned the ropes, and i took what i learned and went into business for myself.

EVERYONE has an opportunity, i REFUSE to believe that people are STUCK in the middle class.

But this is a society that wants to blame everything on everyone else, and lives in the here an now.

Your answer tony is last time i checked everyone pays taxes, and more money comes from your RICH than the poor. So the answer is the majority of the money will be paid by the Rich, sense they pay the most.

Whose taxes are going to go up? Under Obama EVERYONES. you can think this illusion of hes going to champion the middle class, but hes going to raise capital gains, hes going to raise death tax, ss tax, etc. repeat of clinton.

2 things in life are definite, death and taxes. Not everyone aspires to be rich or wealthy, obviously not everyone can be. Some kids aspire to be a Police Officer, Fire Fighter, Teacher.. some prefer a technical trade.. none of these professions bring a great deal of wealth, they are middle class professions.

As I stated before, $50k to $200k must be "RICH" because they carry the bulk of the tax bill. Remember though, a married couple filing jointly with two $25k a year incomes would not be considered "RICH" under that definition... so that whole idea that the elite of society carry the bulk of the tax burden is BS.

Again I quote Adam Smith, the man who grandfathered the theory of a free market:

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

You believe in a free market but not the principles of it.