Mind if I say something?

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

Only about 3% of Americans are on Welfare now. But 15.2% are below the poverty line. Being poor does not equal being a leech on the system, as the majority of poor aren't even recieving Welfare.

Notice in the table in the Wikipedia link I provided the correlation between the poverty index (HPI-2) and the percentage of the population lacking functional literacy skills.

I could go on about the high percentage of people in the penal system over B/S like canabis posession, etc.

If it is true that people who are poor are poor because they choose to be then you must surely have some data or sources to back it up. I appreciate your vitriol and all that but the data will prove you wrong.

you mistook my post i was saying that if you are poor, in jail or you have alot of baby mama's or baby daddy's that is a personal choice you are that way.... i scooped it all in one clump.... i never said if you are poor you are a leeches.... the leeches are the people who stay in jail or have 20 kids and make minimum wage..... i said i speek from personal experience and the oppertunities are out there all you got to do is choose to not break the law, do with out the nicer things in life for a while, work hard, and use birth control you can easibly obtain a good paying job and then you can afford the nicer stuff.... like i said befor it is a choice nobody forces you to be poor... reps for a good post anyway you must have misread my original post

[Total_Blender]

you mistook my post i was saying that if you are poor, in jail or you have alot of baby mama's or baby daddy's that is a personal choice you are that way.... i scooped it all in one clump.... i never said if you are poor you are a leeches.... the leeches are the people who stay in jail or have 20 kids and make minimum wage.....

What I'm saying is that there are opportunities, but it is very easy for someone to screw up. Get busted with a joint and end up with a criminal record. End up pregnant when a condom breaks, etc. A big problem is that people aren't expected or even encouraged much to make the right choices (especially in the education system). I know when I was in school, the people in charge didn't offer me a whole lot of support when it came to making choices and I had to find out a lot for myself. Our schools and our culture need to start holding people to higher standards. The opportunities are out there but people aren't being given any encouragement to go after them.

[AirMax95]

What I'm saying is that there are opportunities, but it is very easy for someone to screw up. Get busted with a joint and end up with a criminal record. End up pregnant when a condom breaks, etc. A big problem is that people aren't expected or even encouraged much to make the right choices (especially in the education system). I know when I was in school, the people in charge didn't offer me a whole lot of support when it came to making choices and I had to find out a lot for myself. Our schools and our culture need to start holding people to higher standards. The opportunities are out there but people aren't being given any encouragement to go after them.

The problem with the education system is that there are a lack of teachers WHO CARE. ANYONE can go get an education certificate, pending you have some sort of degree. The schools are begging for more teachers and they do not have a quality pool to choose from. There are VERY few caring teachers who are willing to put it all out there for even the most stubborn of children.

My cousin pulled his son from a North Ga school b/c the teacher gives an assignment EVERY DAY and sits back in the chair sipping coffee. His theory is teach on Monday, BS Tues-Thurs, test on Fri. Oh, he is in the 5th grade, lol.

[BanginJimmy]

What I'm saying is that there are opportunities, but it is very easy for someone to screw up.

Yes, everyone can screw up, no one is prefect, but what seperates those that are sucessful and those that are not apart is that the sucessful people learn from their mistakes.

Get busted with a joint and end up with a criminal record.

Unless you get caught MANY times in a short amount of time you wont have a felony record. Maybe a record for a misdemenor, but thats all.

End up pregnant when a condom breaks, etc.

Like I said, everyone screws up at some point, and having a baby is a major one, but still just a screw up. There are ways out of it if you cant handle a kid, There is a shortage of adoptable newborns in the US. Or you can learn from your mistakes and not get pregnant again. I have no problems with people that have 1, then work to gt back on their feet. Its the ones that couldnt afford the first one, but go on to have 4 or 5 more that are a problem.

A big problem is that people aren't expected or even encouraged much to make the right choices (especially in the education system).

If you need to be encouraged by someone else to better yourself, then you are already a failure. No amount of encouragement will be enough.

I know when I was in school, the people in charge didn't offer me a whole lot of support when it came to making choices and I had to find out a lot for myself.

A school's job is to educate you , however poorly, not be your parents. That is your parent's job.

Our schools and our culture need to start holding people to higher standards.

I agree, but all too often we have some soccor mom complain that someone elses kid is treated better because he is smarter. I heard of a few districts in cali that dumped their honors and AP programs because parents complained that their kids self esteem was injured by not being invited into those programs.

The opportunities are out there but people aren't being given any encouragement to go after them

Again, if you need constant encouragement to better yourself, then no amount of encouragement will even be enough.

[Total_Blender]

Yes, everyone can screw up, no one is prefect, but what seperates those that are sucessful and those that are not apart is that the sucessful people learn from their mistakes.

Agree 100%. As a country we need to learn from the mistakes we are making in the way we educate people. A lot of jobs are going overseas where they are doing it right.

Unless you get caught MANY times in a short amount of time you wont have a felony record. Maybe a record for a misdemenor, but thats all.

Even misdemeanors can be serious screw-ups when you take into account jail time, fines, people losing their jobs, etc.

Like I said, everyone screws up at some point, and having a baby is a major one, but still just a screw up. There are ways out of it if you cant handle a kid, There is a shortage of adoptable newborns in the US. Or you can learn from your mistakes and not get pregnant again. I have no problems with people that have 1, then work to gt back on their feet. Its the ones that couldnt afford the first one, but go on to have 4 or 5 more that are a problem.

Its a lot harder giving up a kid for adoption than you might think it is. Again, more sex-ed is needed. Access to contraceptives and birth control for teens who can't obtain them from their parents.

If you need to be encouraged by someone else to better yourself, then you are already a failure. No amount of encouragement will be enough.

Every sociologist out there will disagree with you on this one. Ever hear of the strain theory and retreatism? Many people become hopeless and reject society's means and goals.

A school's job is to educate you , however poorly, not be your parents. That is your parent's job.

See my above post about retreatism. If you grow up with bad parents and the norms of society aren't ingrained in you, what then?



I agree, but all too often we have some soccor mom complain that someone elses kid is treated better because he is smarter. I heard of a few districts in cali that dumped their honors and AP programs because parents complained that their kids self esteem was injured by not being invited into those programs.

Yeah, thats just wrong. The Governator needs to break out the minigun on that one.

Again, if you need constant encouragement to better yourself, then no amount of encouragement will even be enough.

The goals of "bleeding heart liberals" and "social Darwinist conservatives" are really the same, to integrate those in poverty back into their roles as producers in the economy, how they differ is the means in which to do so

I fail to see how saddling the working poor with a greater share of the tax burden will accomplish this, FWIW.

You assume that everyone that votes Repub thinks the same way and that is a complete fabrication of your mind.

I was talking about one issue not the entirety of issues. And I forgot that Republicans only vote together 90% of the time. My bad

Seriously though, are there any pro choice Repub's? I know all the congressmen from GA are pro life.

edit: I just found out about the W.I.S.H. list (Women In Senate and House)... a group of pro-choice Republican congresswomen. Only 4 in the Senate though, I'm sure there are at least 4 pro-life Dems. It will be close and divisive regardless.