obama vs mccain voting records

[4dmin]

everyone keeps talking sh!t about how voted what well here are some facts i tried to compile what i thought were hot topics - enjoy, discuss, etc...

07/05 - alternative energy (obama = yes mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/213/


03/06 - Patriot Act (obama = yes mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...te/2/votes/29/


05/06 - Border Security (obama = yes mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/2/votes/157/


06/06 - Amendment limited married to man and woman (obama = no mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/2/votes/163/


06/06 - Troop withdrawl w/ deadline (obama = no mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/2/votes/181/


06/06 - Troop withdrawl w/o deadline (obama = yes mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/2/votes/182/


07/06 - Steem Cell research (obama = yes mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/2/votes/206/


01/07 - ethics reform bill (obama = yes mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...te/1/votes/19/


02/07 - minimum wage increase (obama = yes mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...te/1/votes/42/


03/07 - troop redeployment (obama = yes mccain = didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...te/1/votes/75/


05/07 - 120$ billion for war (obama = no mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/181/


06/07 - Crackdown border security/hiring illegals (obama = yes mccain = didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/204/


08/07 - homeland security 9/11 recommendations (obama = didn't vote mccain didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/284/


08/07 - childrens healthcare program (obama = yes mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/307/


08/07 - expanded power eavesdrop w/o court order (obama = no mccain = didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...e/1/votes/309/

[Maniacc]

06/07 - Crackdown border security/hiring illegals (obama = yes mccain = didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/204/

That would be enough for me to vote for him! :p lol

[4dmin]

06/07 - Crackdown border security/hiring illegals (obama = yes mccain = didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/204/

That would be enough for me to vote for him! :p lol

that and the energy bill:

07/05 - alternative energy (obama = yes mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/213/

^ ya if i recall aren't these two key things Maverick is supposed to be for

[twinj]

06/07 - Crackdown border security/hiring illegals (obama = yes mccain = didn't vote)

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/204/

That would be enough for me to vote for him! :p lol

^lol.

Thanks Admin

[Vteckidd]

ALl im going to say is you cant go by the headlines, you need to read what each bill was about THEN decide if the way they voted agrees with you or not.

The Energy Bill

The Bush administration said this bill's $14.5 billion in tax breaks and incentives would spur oil and gas companies to find innovative ways to reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil, conserve resources and reduce pollution. Supporters also said the bill would lead to the creation of more oil refineries, new oil drilling projects and new nuclear power plants -- arguing that all were necessary to meet the nation's energy needs and reduce importation of foreign oil.

Opponents said the measure amounted to a give-away to large energy companies already flush with cash due to rising oil and gas prices and that it would do little to solve the nation's energy-related problems. Opponents further argued that the bill could lead to drilling in coastal and other sensitive areas and damage the environment.

The bill called for increase use of alternative fuels such as ethanol and offered incentives for development of alternative energy sources (such as wind and solar), tax breaks for hybrid cars, construction of more energy efficient buildings. The bill did not include the controversial proposal to open Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) for oil drilling, but the proposal was added to a later bill, which was defeated.

The final version of the energy bill passed both the House and Senate in late July 2005 and was signed into law by the president on August 8, 2005.

Do we know if Mccain voted for it when it DID pass?

ALot of times these people will vote AGAINST legislature and send it back to get redone, bills can go through 100 different versions before they get approved

[Vteckidd]

06/07 - Crackdown border security/hiring illegals (obama = yes mccain = didn't vote)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/204/

That would be enough for me to vote for him! :p lol

The bill was defeated by opposition from conservative and liberal causes alike. From the Democratic side, labor unions protested the guest-worker program as a threat to American jobs. For conservatives of both parties, the path-to-citizenship provision was interpreted as "amnesty" for lawbreakers.

President Bush threw his full support behind this bill, even making a rare visit to Capitol Hill in hopes of bolstering support after it appeared doomed.

Despite his attempts, Bush found his major domestic initiative blocked by most members of his own party as well as a few Democrats.

[Maniacc]

The bill was defeated by opposition from conservative and liberal causes alike. From the Democratic side, labor unions protested the guest-worker program as a threat to American jobs. For conservatives of both parties, the path-to-citizenship provision was interpreted as "amnesty" for lawbreakers.

President Bush threw his full support behind this bill, even making a rare visit to Capitol Hill in hopes of bolstering support after it appeared doomed.

Despite his attempts, Bush found his major domestic initiative blocked by most members of his own party as well as a few Democrats.

Ah, that sucks. I heard that both McCain and Obama will past an amnesty if either are elected. Any confirmation on this?

[Ran]

03/06 - Patriot Act (obama = yes mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/c...ate/2/votes/29

Weren't you guys harping on something about how Obama was all for gun control but not for the Patriot Act?

I heard that both McCain and Obama will past an amnesty if either are elected.

By "amnesty" they mean free deportation, right?

[4dmin]

ALl im going to say is you cant go by the headlines, you need to read what each bill was about THEN decide if the way they voted agrees with you or not.

The Energy Bill

The Bush administration said this bill's $14.5 billion in tax breaks and incentives would spur oil and gas companies to find innovative ways to reduce the nation's dependence on foreign oil, conserve resources and reduce pollution. Supporters also said the bill would lead to the creation of more oil refineries, new oil drilling projects and new nuclear power plants -- arguing that all were necessary to meet the nation's energy needs and reduce importation of foreign oil.

Opponents said the measure amounted to a give-away to large energy companies already flush with cash due to rising oil and gas prices and that it would do little to solve the nation's energy-related problems. Opponents further argued that the bill could lead to drilling in coastal and other sensitive areas and damage the environment.

The bill called for increase use of alternative fuels such as ethanol and offered incentives for development of alternative energy sources (such as wind and solar), tax breaks for hybrid cars, construction of more energy efficient buildings. The bill did not include the controversial proposal to open Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) for oil drilling, but the proposal was added to a later bill, which was defeated.

The final version of the energy bill passed both the House and Senate in late July 2005 and was signed into law by the president on August 8, 2005.

Do we know if Mccain voted for it when it DID pass?

ALot of times these people will vote AGAINST legislature and send it back to get redone, bills can go through 100 different versions before they get approved

From what I saw NO he didn't.

[Maniacc]

By "amnesty" they mean free deportation, right?

Haha, no way. That would hurt many business'es around the 'heavy populated' latino communities and states.

[Vteckidd]

i think the real hard point is that most of these bills are generalized. There is ALOT more to these bills than what is on that website.

ALOT more provisions, alot more points, consequences etc.

Thats not making excuses or anything, but just pointing out that you cant just go by the headline of the bill and then look at the voting record. If you do that, it means absolutely NOTHING.

Obama has gotten some flack for his voting record on some issues but if you REALLY read the bill, i can see why he voted against it, same with mccain.

As for illegals, they are here to stay. Expect another form of the Guest Worker bill to be proposed once someone gets in office

[Ran]

That would hurt many business'es around the 'heavy populated' latino community.

So?

[Red_Phoenix]

There better be amnesty this next term. Thats all I have to say.

[Maniacc]

So?

So - some of my relatives will no longer be here. Haha, which wouldn't hurt me but you know!

[4dmin]

i think the real hard point is that most of these bills are generalized. There is ALOT more to these bills than what is on that website.

ALOT more provisions, alot more points, consequences etc.

Thats not making excuses or anything, but just pointing out that you cant just go by the headline of the bill and then look at the voting record. If you do that, it means absolutely NOTHING.

Obama has gotten some flack for his voting record on some issues but if you REALLY read the bill, i can see why he voted against it, same with mccain.

As for illegals, they are here to stay. Expect another form of the Guest Worker bill to be proposed once someone gets in office

you do know by stating this you now have no stance in this discussion

there is pork in all bills - if you filter through the voting results and who supports them you can get a good idea on party lines, influence, etc

[Vteckidd]

From what I saw NO he didn't.

Now there is something wrong about the Energy bill because

it says :
Opponents said the measure amounted to a give-away to large energy companies already flush with cash due to rising oil and gas prices and that it would do little to solve the nation's energy-related problems. Opponents further argued that the bill could lead to drilling in coastal and other sensitive areas and damage the environment.

Obama is on record as voting AGAINST this bill because of the offshore drilling, etc.

Mccain is on record as voting for it, so this must be some weird version like i said before.

Why would Obama vote FOR a bill that had offshore drilling and drilling in endagered lands? Why would he vote to give Oil Companies MORE MONEY.

That is EXACTLY WHAT HE IS AGAINST

[Maniacc]

There better be amnesty this next term. Thats all I have to say.

I agree. That'll save the Country a lot of money and sweat.

[Vteckidd]

you do know by stating this you now have no stance in this discussion

there is pork in all bills - if you filter through the voting results and who supports them you can get a good idea on party lines, influence, etc

Im trying to stay neutral so i dont get called and idiot or a racist

[Ran]

There better be amnesty this next term. Thats all I have to say.

Yeah, fixing the problem is too costly so let's just absorb it into the system.

[4dmin]

Now there is something wrong about the Energy bill because

it says :
Opponents said the measure amounted to a give-away to large energy companies already flush with cash due to rising oil and gas prices and that it would do little to solve the nation's energy-related problems. Opponents further argued that the bill could lead to drilling in coastal and other sensitive areas and damage the environment.

Obama is on record as voting AGAINST this bill because of the offshore drilling, etc.

Mccain is on record as voting for it, so this must be some weird version like i said before.

Why would Obama vote FOR a bill that had offshore drilling and drilling in endagered lands? Why would he vote to give Oil Companies MORE MONEY.

That is EXACTLY WHAT HE IS AGAINST

NOPE

The bill did not include the controversial proposal to open Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) for oil drilling, but the proposal was added to a later bill, which was defeated.

- Obama voted Yes to this bill and McCain voted No

cite where McCain voted YES for this bill?

[Maniacc]

Yeah, fixing the problem is too costly so let's just absorb it into the system.

Don't really see a problem if everyone can coexist and work together, with no illegal issues getting in the way.

[Ran]

Don't really see a problem if everyone can coexist and work together, with no illegal issues getting in the way.

Sure, that works great in Candyland. If things were that easy around the world, I probably wouldn't be here. Things don't work that way though.

[Total_Blender]

Obama voted for the Patriot Act but at least he voted against the roving wiretaps. McCain voted for both.

[Red_Phoenix]

Yeah, fixing the problem is too costly so let's just absorb it into the system.

Everyone think that illegals are ppl who crossed over a desert and took over jobs. There is more to it then that. There are TONS of people who were brought over as kids (no choice when your 5) illegally grow up here liek an american and get the boot when they turn 18. Others whose parents had working visas which the government just renews for the working parent while the kids have visas to just stay (not work) in the US (my situation) and when you turn 21 you get a kind letter from the Gov that says you have 3 weeks to GTFO. So you either have to uproot yourself and go back to that place on your birth certificate. Or take your chances living the illegal life. I took my chances and lived that way for 3 years. Its not easy. I have a student visa not and went back to school. Still not allowed to work legally. I have been here since 1993. Anyone want to tell me I'm not qualified to stay? Learned your language, laws, and "culture" I am not saying border patrol shoudl be handing out greencards in the desert. I'm just saying there is something that needs to be done because your country is kicking out ppl they paid their education for through publix school and then turning around and letting ppl from 3rd world countries in on green card lotteries. There is more to illegals then what you ppl think.

[Maniacc]

Sure, that works great in Candyland. If things were that easy around the world, I probably wouldn't be here. Things don't work that way though.

I'm quite aware that things don't easily and smoothly fall into place. The amnesty that took place around the mid - late '80's early '90's really did help out though. And I honestly don't see any reason why we shouldn't have another one, come 2009.

[Ran]

There are TONS of people who were brought over as kids (no choice when your 5) illegally grow up here liek an american and get the boot when they turn 18.

Tough luck. They can blame their illegal parents and take them back too.

Others whose parents had working visas which the government just renews for the working parent while the kids have visas to just stay (not work) in the US (my situation) and when you turn 21 you get a kind letter from the Gov that says you have 3 weeks to GTFO.

Then the kid (now adult) should apply for citizenship and start the process. If not, tough luck. If I go to S.Korea on a work Visa, that doesn't automatically grant my kids citizenship. When they become adults, they'll be responsible for their process as well.

I took my chances and lived that way for 3 years. Its not easy. I have a student visa not and went back to school. Still not allowed to work legally. I have been here since 1993. Anyone want to tell me I'm not qualified to stay?

Are you a legal citizen? Do you have a work visa? If no, then you need to GTFO. If yes, then enjoy your stay.

I am not saying border patrol shoudl be handing out greencards in the desert. I'm just saying there is something that needs to be done because your country is kicking out ppl they paid their education for through publix school and then turning around and letting ppl from 3rd world countries in on green card lotteries. There is more to illegals then what you ppl think.

I don't agree with the green card lottery either, but that's one legal way they're doing it. Does it need to be changed? Yes, but that doesn't change how we need to deal with illegals that are here in the meantime.

[Red_Phoenix]

Tough luck. They can blame their illegal parents and take them back too..

This is a very lame and closed minded opinion and does not help or change anything

Then the kid (now adult) should apply for citizenship and start the process. If not, tough luck. If I go to S.Korea on a work Visa, that doesn't automatically grant my kids citizenship. When they become adults, they'll be responsible for their process as well...

There is no such thing as a "citizen process" from an illegal status. Please inform yourself before giving info because this is not correct. Nice to see that you woudl drag your kids somewhere and riase then in a place where you coudl give them a better life just so that when they are grown you tell them "well, I'm here. you can't stay. You've never been to your "homeland" but figure out on your own."

Are you a legal citizen? Do you have a work visa? No? Then yes, you need to GTFO. If yes, then enjoy your stay....

I am currently legal here. I consider the US home. It where I spent most of my life.

I don't agree with the green card lottery either, but that's one legal way they're doing it. Does it need to be changed? Yes, but that doesn't change how we need to deal with illegals that are here in the meantime...

Woudl you like to explain to me how your roots immigrated here. Cuz I KNOW your roots don't go back to the English settlers that formed this country.


For someone who obviously had to have immigrated here somewhere in your family history. You are very close minded. You had to choice but to grow up here. You think you can hack it if you got thrown back to your roots??

[Kaiser]

Everyone think that illegals are ppl who crossed over a desert and took over jobs. There is more to it then that. There are TONS of people who were brought over as kids (no choice when your 5) illegally grow up here liek an american and get the boot when they turn 18. Others whose parents had working visas which the government just renews for the working parent while the kids have visas to just stay (not work) in the US (my situation) and when you turn 21 you get a kind letter from the Gov that says you have 3 weeks to GTFO. So you either have to uproot yourself and go back to that place on your birth certificate. Or take your chances living the illegal life. I took my chances and lived that way for 3 years. Its not easy. I have a student visa not and went back to school. Still not allowed to work legally. I have been here since 1993. Anyone want to tell me I'm not qualified to stay? Learned your language, laws, and "culture" I am not saying border patrol shoudl be handing out greencards in the desert. I'm just saying there is something that needs to be done because your country is kicking out ppl they paid their education for through publix school and then turning around and letting ppl from 3rd world countries in on green card lotteries. There is more to illegals then what you ppl think.

The federal government has nothing (and should have nothing) to do with what amounts to a local problem of resident aliens owning property and paying property tax on it that is used for public education. In all seriousness, the way provisions are set up, there is no guarantee of a public education for resident aliens who are not citizens. Conversely there is no truancy requirement laws in those jurisdictions whose laws do not guarantee a public education for resident aliens for those same people. In other words, nowhere FORCES you to go to school if you're not a citizen that doesn't GUARANTEE you a chance to go to school if you're not a citizen. I don't want to hear about resident aliens tax situation though, because it's alot more complicated than people want to make it out to be. It's also not the problem with the current tax system.

The problem is that most of the migrant worker illegal aliens have NOT learned our language, do NOT care for our culture and do NOT want to become a coexistent part of society. They are here as symbiotes who feed off of our system, providing cheap labor in return for untaxed dollars that can be funneled into the central/south american country of their origin. All the while they claim to have no income and recieve as many government handouts as they can manage to qualify for. The number of "unemployed" mexican-american "work visa" holders in COBB COUNTY alone who are recieving unemployment and have been busted for working out of the parking lot of a home depot in this year is proof of that. Nobody ever said that because the migrant worker illegal aliens refused to speak english that they were stupid because it was true. They're racists. The hispanic migrant worker has figured out that the american government will cater to their needs if they cry for help all the while they hold a steady $6-$7 an hour job (60-70 Pesos an hour at current rates) that they send straight back to Mexico. These Migrant workers aren't working for any big business. They aren't working for a corporation who has to worry about filing paperwork on them. They're working for contractors who use them as contracted day laborers. It's on the worker to claim their income to the IRS, and it becomes almost on the honor system that these workers claim anything, since the only "contract" that is used is a verbal agreement and cash-in-hand at the end of the day. Those are the people who are creating problems for the mandatory-admission emergency medical care community who are doing births for now-american-citizen anchors but are never recieving any kind of compensation because the parents disappear into the breeze without any kind of Social Security number to even track.

People in YOUR situation need a VIABLE WAY TO BECOME AMERICAN CITIZENS. The Migrant Workers in this country DO NOT EVER WANT TO BE AMERICAN. They want to make money here, send it home so they have a good life, save all that money, and eventually go home to live it big. They are living their version of the American dream, and with the CURRENT system they create huge problems.

All of this goes away if you do away with the Income Tax, Social Security, and all the government oversight that comes with massive hand-out systems funded by tracked income systems. Switching to a different form of income collection based on something easier to track and enforce (Such as, for example, a retail sales tax collected by the retail point of sale system, or a tax on a government controlled neccessary good, like the Stamp Tax the british implemented here that helped to start the revolution) means that the Migrant Workers who are behaving the exact same way they are now, suddenly become legal workers who nobody has any problem with. Every american can do what they're doing and not worry about being arrested or facing massive fines from the IRS for tax evasion. The problem isn't the Migrant workers who have figured out how to game the system. The problem is the system that allows people to game it at all. All the supports of Obama want to see government in charge of healthcare, something that is and should always be the responsibility of those who want to stay healthy, and yet they have NO ANSWERS as to how to make the government ACTUALLY DO WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB. That is to enforce the laws that are on the books.

We don't LIVE in a Democracy. We live in a Representative Republic based on the RULE OF LAW. If 51% of the people in a democracy wanted to see every black person put back in slavery, then that becomes what the country's laws are. Instead America is not based on mob-rule, something the Founding Fathers figured out was exactly as dangerous as the people who fought the revolution for them.


Edit: A note about the wages, for some perspective. A 10 hour day in America at $6 an hour amounts to over 600 Pesos. The average daily wage in Mexico, according to their own government, is around 200 Pesos. This means that in a six day week, a migrant worker can work a whole month's average wage, and still have Sunday to be a good Catholic. In 10 years of being in America at the pitiful price of $6 an hour, a Migrant Worker could make a whole LIFETIME'S pay in Mexico. When you talk about other central-american countries like Nicaragua or Panama, the situation looks even better for Migrant Workers. These people aren't stupid, they are economic geniuses. I wish there were Jobs in England right now, I'd be hopping a merchant marine boat to try and earn some dough now. Of course another way to end the Migrant Worker phenomenon is to crush our currency into smithereens the same way the Japanese did, and turn our economy into an export economy. Then we'd have a rock-solid economic powerhouse that took a blow bigger than what caused the great depression in America and still stand. Not that long ago their stock market crashed far worse than ours ever did, and yet their economy essentially "Couldn't get any worse" and they bounced right back up from it to where they are now.

[ShooterMcGavin]

ppl can obviously draw their own conclusions but i'm sure some will draw the wrong conclusions based on the items mccain voted no or didn't vote on. personally, below items stood out to me:

05/07 - 120$ billion for war (obama = no mccain = yes)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/181/
if we know we're going to be there to finish out the war, why would you not fund it? how will our troops fight if they aren't funded?

08/07 - childrens healthcare program (obama = yes mccain = no)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...te/1/votes/307/
i'm not sure how many ppl actually know about this program, that unfairly tried to tax cigars to pay for this program but more importantly, was meant as a healthcare program for ADULTS as well, but hidden under the guise of a "childrens" program

[Maniacc]

Woudl you like to explain to me how your roots immigrated here. Cuz I KNOW your roots don't go back to the English settlers that formed this country.

For someone who obviously had to have immigrated here somewhere in your family history. You are very close minded. You had to choice but to grow up here. You think you can hack it if you got thrown back to your roots??

I'm hispanic and can relate to a lot of what you're saying. But Ran did make 'some' good points. I for one, think that all the current illegals should get deported - sounds mean, but that's how it should be. If they contribute to this nation then they have no reason to stay. Atleast, that's how I see it.

[Ran]

Woudl you like to explain to me how your roots immigrated here. Cuz I KNOW your roots don't go back to the English settlers that formed this country.

I'll gladly let you know that my father's family migrated over here LEGALLY prior to the Civil War. The system back then was lot easier, but they abided by it none-the-less. My mother was brought over by my father in the late 70's, went through the process, and is now a LEGAL citizen.

For someone who obviously had to have immigrated here somewhere in your family history. You are very close minded. You had to choice but to grow up here. You think you can hack it if you got thrown back to your roots??

You're obviously losing your argument because you, as an illegal I assume, have no real leg to stand on. I'm not close minded, but I'm well aware that there is a system that needs to be followed. Does it always work? No, but it's the only one we got and anyone who fails to abide by it deserves what they get.

[Vteckidd]

The problem with Illegals is we are doing NOTHING to stop it. They are here ILLEGALLY, they are here without permission and they are breaking INTERNATIONAL LAWs.

If you jumped the border and went to mexico and they caught you, you think they would just say "hey, its cool, hang out for awhile". HELL NO they would throw your ass in mexican jail and aint nobody wanna go to jail in mexico /martin lawrence

Im not arguing that we as a society havent become dependant on their cheap labor, but IMO thats just as wrong in human rights as china.

I think we should make them ALL GUEST WORKERS, TAX THEM, REGISTER THEM, and kick all the Current Illegal felons out of the country and give our swelling jails a rest.

I think we should cap their familes at 4 kids too, but thats just me

I think we should require more of them to pass backround checks to get hired and i think we should go after the big and small businesses that are exploiting the illegal workers and make them pay HEFTY FINES.

There is a way to coexist, but that means they have to assimilate into OUR SOCIETY, not the other way around. They need to pay taxes, and be registered in some form or fashion.

We need to really LOCK the borders down and keep any more from coming in

[Ran]

The problem with Illegals is we are doing NOTHING to stop it. They are here ILLEGALLY, they are here without permission and they are breaking INTERNATIONAL LAWs.

If you jumped the border and went to mexico and they caught you, you think they would just say "hey, its cool, hang out for awhile". HELL NO they would throw your ass in mexican jail and aint nobody wanna go to jail in mexico /martin lawrence

Im not arguing that we as a society havent become dependant on their cheap labor, but IMO thats just as wrong in human rights as china.

I think we should make them ALL GUEST WORKERS, TAX THEM, REGISTER THEM, and kick all the Current Illegal felons out of the country and give our swelling jails a rest.

I think we should cap their familes at 4 kids too, but thats just me

I think we should require more of them to pass backround checks to get hired and i think we should go after the big and small businesses that are exploiting the illegal workers and make them pay HEFTY FINES.

There is a way to coexist, but that means they have to assimilate into OUR SOCIETY, not the other way around. They need to pay taxes, and be registered in some form or fashion.

We need to really LOCK the borders down and keep any more from coming in

I <3 you Mike.

[ShooterMcGavin]

illegals ftl
/discussion

[Vteckidd]

The federal government has nothing (and should have nothing) to do with what amounts to a local problem of resident aliens owning property and paying property tax on it that is used for public education. In all seriousness, the way provisions are set up, there is no guarantee of a public education for resident aliens who are not citizens. Conversely there is no truancy requirement laws in those jurisdictions whose laws do not guarantee a public education for resident aliens for those same people. In other words, nowhere FORCES you to go to school if you're not a citizen that doesn't GUARANTEE you a chance to go to school if you're not a citizen. I don't want to hear about resident aliens tax situation though, because it's alot more complicated than people want to make it out to be. It's also not the problem with the current tax system.

The problem is that most of the migrant worker illegal aliens have NOT learned our language, do NOT care for our culture and do NOT want to become a coexistent part of society. They are here as symbiotes who feed off of our system, providing cheap labor in return for untaxed dollars that can be funneled into the central/south american country of their origin. All the while they claim to have no income and recieve as many government handouts as they can manage to qualify for. The number of "unemployed" mexican-american "work visa" holders in COBB COUNTY alone who are recieving unemployment and have been busted for working out of the parking lot of a home depot in this year is proof of that. Nobody ever said that because the migrant worker illegal aliens refused to speak english that they were stupid because it was true. They're racists. The hispanic migrant worker has figured out that the american government will cater to their needs if they cry for help all the while they hold a steady $6-$7 an hour job (60-70 Pesos an hour at current rates) that they send straight back to Mexico. These Migrant workers aren't working for any big business. They aren't working for a corporation who has to worry about filing paperwork on them. They're working for contractors who use them as contracted day laborers. It's on the worker to claim their income to the IRS, and it becomes almost on the honor system that these workers claim anything, since the only "contract" that is used is a verbal agreement and cash-in-hand at the end of the day. Those are the people who are creating problems for the mandatory-admission emergency medical care community who are doing births for now-american-citizen anchors but are never recieving any kind of compensation because the parents disappear into the breeze without any kind of Social Security number to even track.

People in YOUR situation need a VIABLE WAY TO BECOME AMERICAN CITIZENS. The Migrant Workers in this country DO NOT EVER WANT TO BE AMERICAN. They want to make money here, send it home so they have a good life, save all that money, and eventually go home to live it big. They are living their version of the American dream, and with the CURRENT system they create huge problems.

All of this goes away if you do away with the Income Tax, Social Security, and all the government oversight that comes with massive hand-out systems funded by tracked income systems. Switching to a different form of income collection based on something easier to track and enforce (Such as, for example, a retail sales tax collected by the retail point of sale system, or a tax on a government controlled neccessary good, like the Stamp Tax the british implemented here that helped to start the revolution) means that the Migrant Workers who are behaving the exact same way they are now, suddenly become legal workers who nobody has any problem with. Every american can do what they're doing and not worry about being arrested or facing massive fines from the IRS for tax evasion. The problem isn't the Migrant workers who have figured out how to game the system. The problem is the system that allows people to game it at all. All the supports of Obama want to see government in charge of healthcare, something that is and should always be the responsibility of those who want to stay healthy, and yet they have NO ANSWERS as to how to make the government ACTUALLY DO WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S JOB. That is to enforce the laws that are on the books.

We don't LIVE in a Democracy. We live in a Representative Republic based on the RULE OF LAW. If 51% of the people in a democracy wanted to see every black person put back in slavery, then that becomes what the country's laws are. Instead America is not based on mob-rule, something the Founding Fathers figured out was exactly as dangerous as the people who fought the revolution for them.

i like you we should hang out an grab a beer

nohomo

[Maniacc]

I like to think that I'm a pretty well educated latino - and should stay no matter what happens! Haha, I'm here to stay, and won't be returning back to Mexico anytime soon and I can bet my d*ck on that. I know more about the United State's history than I do about Mexico's. I don't know jack sh*t about Mexico nor do I care to. This debate has been discussed numerous times on IA. There really is no point to drag this thread in that direction.

[Kaiser]

i like you we should hang out an grab a beer

nohomo

Why? Just because I think being a good american means understanding how the government is supposed to work and being upset at idiots who want to abuse government for their own personal benefit at others expense? Cool!

Glad someone finally likes me for that. We should go have some beers, especially if you end up moving somewhere near Kennesaw, there's plenty of good places.

[Maniacc]

Why? Just because I think being a good american means understanding how the government is supposed to work and being upset at idiots who want to abuse government for their own personal benefit at others expense? Cool!

Glad someone finally likes me for that. We should go have some beers, especially if you end up moving somewhere near Kennesaw, there's plenty of good places.

At the end of the day, you can't contain it. It's like a zombie outbreak. They'll break the barriers eventually.

[bigdare23]

i like you we should hang out an grab a beer

nohomo

stop lie'n Mike



you want homo

[Ran]

Why? Just because I think being a good american means understanding how the government is supposed to work and being upset at idiots who want to abuse government for their own personal benefit at others expense? Cool!

Glad someone finally likes me for that. We should go have some beers, especially if you end up moving somewhere near Kennesaw, there's plenty of good places.

There are more of us thinking like that than you'd think. Granted I don't have quite the extensive knowledge as Mike and others, but I still support your stance.

At the end of the day, you can't contain it. It's like a zombie outbreak. They'll break the barriers eventually.

I lol'd @ the thought of illegal mexican zombies.

Mexican Zombie: "Braaaaains~"
American Joe: "Are you a legally registered brain muncher?"
Mexican Zombie: "Nooooo~"
American Joe: "Then I'm sorry, but you'll have to lea-what are you doing?! ARGHHHH~!"

/threadjack