So much for Republican's family values.

[stephen]

well....since you asked....

[QUOTE=Jaimecbr900]Why don't the Obama supporters stick to real substance, like what their candidate stands for? Not what he's PROMISING....not what he's SAYING he's going to do.....but what you truly believe he CAN DELIVER.

Where does he stand on Gun Control?

this is one of obama's views that i do not necessarily agree on (i value my right to bear arms), BUT i understand. obama's home state is riddled with crime...chicago ALONE had almost the same number of murders as Americans killed in Iraq during the first 4 months of 2008. in all fairness, if you relate our gun control laws to those of other countries, i'm sure you'll find a huge disparity amongst violent crimes/murders (Australia & German are examples). since you already put it out there (about blacks voting for him because he's black), look at how many black youths lose their lives to guns? that being said, how many black parents have lost their children to ridiculous shootings...don't you think his stance on the issue is going to attract their attention?

Where does he stand on the war in Iraq?

you have to be careful when you ask for his views on the "IRAQ war." Obama feels like Afghanistan should be, and should've always been our main target in the war...not Iraq. we were ALL led to believe that the terrorist were in Afghanistan, hence why that should be our primary target. a lot of people fail to see that we're basically fighting 2 totally different wars. 1 against terrorist...and another to free a country from dictatorship. obama has stated on numerous occasions that we need to pull our forces from IRAQ, if fighting terrorism is our main objective. yet again...in all fairness, how many countries AROUND THE WORLD harbor and fund terrorism? how many countries around the world are lead by destructive dictators? should we spend 10 billion dollars a month to fight each and every one, while our own country suffers economically?

Where does he stand on real tax reform?

this is the NUMBER 1 reason why people don't want to vote for obama...i'll link you directly to his site: http://obama.senate.gov/issues/tax_reform/

a few key words that a lot of people miss on this issue are...WORKING FAMILY, TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...and also understand that HE NEVER CREATED THE SYSTEM OF HIGH TAXES FOR THE RICH...he only wants to get it back to its original goal...not to mention, if our country wants out of debt, the money has to come from somewhere. the system has worked before without destroying the wealthy class, why won't it work again?

Where does he stand on nationalized health care?

NATIONALIZED health care isn't his goal at all...he just wants health care to be more affordable, and improve its quality (nationalized is what they have in places like Canada, free for all....eh...). making healthcare more affordable is a benefit to companies who provide their employers with healthcare, and to those that have to purchase it on their own. just this year i had to decline health insurance from my job because it would've taken almost 1/3 of my weekly check...that's just ridiculous. not too mention, look how many entrepreneurs and independent contractors we have in America who have to go out and purchase their own insurance plans...it has only been this bad within the past few years.

Where does he stand on abortion?

obama is pro-abortion, another issue i completely disagree with. i've never and will never be a fan of abortion...PERIOD. the reality of the situation is everyone is allowed to his/ or her own decisions. sadly, there are people who just don't give a sh/t, and will continue to bring children into the world, and live off of the government....so once again, i can understand his view.

Where does he stand on immigration?

his most important views on immigration revolve around giving legal citizens precedence over illegals. naturally, i'd think any American citizen would support that plan. do you know what it's like to finish high school, go to college, get a degree, struggle to find a stable job at a STABLE COMPANY in your field (only to fail), and finally have to settle for a job (just to keep your bills paid and food in your stomach) working next to an illegal who probably hasn't even completed high school. after all of that, you're only making $2hr more than him...and to make it worse, you have to pay taxes on your money! this also goes hand in hand with his view on giving tax breaks to companies that do not out-source to other countries. as far as getting rid of the illegals that're here...that's something that took more than 4yrs to happen, and will take even longer to fix.

Where does he stand on crime?

i touched on this with gun control. he also mentioned at the DNC about how he intends on increasing funding for law enforcement. i used to live in lithonia, and remember when the city's police department got shut down. how ridiculous is that??? meanwhile, the liquor store IN THE SAME PLAZA is booming with business! pizza hut down the street...booming! sh/t makes no sense.

Where does he stand on foreign policy?

he wants to take more diplomatic approaches with global issues. he's a member of the senate foreign relations committee...i mean really...what more "stance" on foreign policy could anyone ask for??? because he's not some gun-ho warrior, itching to press the red button, he's ready to handly foreign issues? there sure were A LOT of other countries that welcomed him with open arms when he made is trip around the world a few months ago. that's something that even good ol' George senior commended him for.

Where does he stand on education?

staunch supporter on education...willing to give tax breaks students (or parents)...willing improve educator's salaries (we ALL know some teachers just don't make enough). he has a plan for EVERY level of education, from improving the quality of education, to assisting with the financial burden. education is invaluable...and i can appreciate ANYONE who wants to improve the quality.

Where does he stand on family values?

family values has been one of his greatest platforms. he stresses family values in EVERY speech he makes. i personally feel that he's a great man, superb father, and devoted husband. i think he's laid an almost rock-solid foundation for the future of his own children. on almost EVERY interview-special that he's done, he is forever telling the story of how he met his wife. i'll always believe he has strong family values...unless i read an article about how he IKE-d the sh.it out of michelle, and the see her with sunglasses on an interview.

Let's just start there. Let's see how many supporters can even answer that. Let's see if you still agree that he is the best man for the job after you research and find out IF he's even got a clear stance on any of this.

My problem with Obama is that he has the masses in such a BS filled trance that it's sickening. People are supporting him yet have no clue why.....other than he is black and NOT Bush. That's it. So that means that I could've ran and some of yall would've voted for me since I'm not WHITE and NOT Bush. Does that suddenly make me qualified to run a country? Hmmmm, maybe I should be a write in on the ballot then. Why not? I'm chock full of IDEAS, because that's all the talking really is if you can't get it DONE......right?

How exactly is Obama going to fund a Nationalized Healthcare system???? Take a guess. Just the same way every other public assistance program is funded.....TAXES. Yet he's going to REDUCE taxes? For whom? People are blinded by reality. The reality is that you can promise to do all kinds of things, yet be oxymoronic about it. You can't LOWER taxes if you plan on taxing MORE to fund your bright ideas. Doesn't work that way. Has anyone bothered to look at other countries that have a national healthcare system in place? Instead of asking for more hand outs, why don't we focus on keeping 100% of our paychecks and repeal the current income tax into oblivion? Because that would mean that we would have to WORK is why. People would rather get taken care of by the Gov't than work for themselves and make a better life. It's the welfare mentality. Why work when I get paid MORE to sit on my a$$ and spit guppies out? Wow, what a way to live. Well, that's exactly what you promote when you make people more and more dependent on gov't rather themselves. You want that?

well...there you have it. an explanation of obama from a supporter. i'm with you 100% on sending income tax into oblivion...but let's be real...the country NEEDS it. our country is in serious debt, and something has to give. our 2 largest expenses...oil and the war...neither of which are going to have a drastic enough change within the next i'll say 2 years. obama is offering conceivable alternative measures until that time comes (hopefully within his 4yr term). the biggest misconception people get about obama's plans is that his policies are going to help the people who don't help themselves...and that's just FALSE. my biggest issue with the current administration is the downward spiral it has sent our economy into, and the negative effects it has had one ME AND MY FAMILY (we have lost a lot that we worked damn hard for). i'm sorry but NOBODY is ever too good for a little help at some point. i hope i gave you a better understanding of the mind of atleast 1 obama supporter.

[Jaimecbr900]

this is one of obama's views that i do not necessarily agree on (i value my right to bear arms), BUT i understand. obama's home state is riddled with crime...chicago ALONE had almost the same number of murders as Americans killed in Iraq during the first 4 months of 2008. in all fairness, if you relate our gun control laws to those of other countries, i'm sure you'll find a huge disparity amongst violent crimes/murders (Australia & German are examples). since you already put it out there (about blacks voting for him because he's black), look at how many black youths lose their lives to guns? that being said, how many black parents have lost their children to ridiculous shootings...don't you think his stance on the issue is going to attract their attention?

Well, I don't understand disarming LAW ABIDING CITIZENS at all. Neither did our founding fathers, hence it is part of the Constitution. So his idea that you disarm people and leave them unable to defend themselves against criminals who care nothing about "laws" by definition is totally absurd to me. Any person who professes to be a supporter of MORE protection against civil liberties, as Obama professes, infractions doesn't try to take away my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms and protect myself, my family, and possibly others. It's an oxymoron.

you have to be careful when you ask for his views on the "IRAQ war." Obama feels like Afghanistan should be, and should've always been our main target in the war...not Iraq. we were ALL led to believe that the terrorist were in Afghanistan, hence why that should be our primary target. a lot of people fail to see that we're basically fighting 2 totally different wars. 1 against terrorist...and another to free a country from dictatorship. obama has stated on numerous occasions that we need to pull our forces from IRAQ, if fighting terrorism is our main objective. yet again...in all fairness, how many countries AROUND THE WORLD harbor and fund terrorism? how many countries around the world are lead by destructive dictators? should we spend 10 billion dollars a month to fight each and every one, while our own country suffers economically?

Actually, he's clearly said he would pull troops out if elected. Therefore it would leave a war unfinished, a void that Terrorists/Dictators would fill, and only give us a repeat of the Clinton no-backbone-left-unfinished initial war in Iraq where we could have avoided 9-11 all together.

this is the NUMBER 1 reason why people don't want to vote for obama...i'll link you directly to his site: http://obama.senate.gov/issues/tax_reform/

a few key words that a lot of people miss on this issue are...WORKING FAMILY, TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...TAX CREDIT...and also understand that HE NEVER CREATED THE SYSTEM OF HIGH TAXES FOR THE RICH...he only wants to get it back to its original goal...not to mention, if our country wants out of debt, the money has to come from somewhere. the system has worked before without destroying the wealthy class, why won't it work again?

Wrong. He does want to implement tax changes that affect high wage earners as if that is going to resolve something. It won't. Look at it this way, the top wage earners comprise only 1% of ALL tax payers, yet they pay way more than 1% of all taxes. So you want to penalize high wage earners for making money, so you can give it to those of us that don't make that kind of money? How's that make sense? That's a Socialist idea, not a democratic one. Why not make it equal across the board and make it a consumption tax, ie. the fair tax? Rich people SPEND money to avoid paying income taxes on it. When you SPEND money, under a fair tax, they get TAXED. It doesn't matter if you're illegal, drug dealer, unemployed, or Donald Trump. You would PAY taxes which in turn would mean Trillions in revenue we DON'T SEE now. Why? Because those illegals, drug dealers, and unemployed DON'T PAY TAXES NOW. How can people not see that would net MORE revenue?

NATIONALIZED health care isn't his goal at all...he just wants health care to be more affordable, and improve its quality (nationalized is what they have in places like Canada, free for all....eh...). making healthcare more affordable is a benefit to companies who provide their employers with healthcare, and to those that have to purchase it on their own. just this year i had to decline health insurance from my job because it would've taken almost 1/3 of my weekly check...that's just ridiculous. not too mention, look how many entrepreneurs and independent contractors we have in America who have to go out and purchase their own insurance plans...it has only been this bad within the past few years.

Wrong again. He does support Nationalized Health Care. Here is his own quote, from his own personal website:

"OBAMA: Well, look, I believe in universal health care, as does Sen. Clinton. And the point of the debate, is that Sen. Clinton repeatedly claims that I don't stand for universal health care. And, you know, for Sen. Clinton to say that, I think, is simply not accurate. Every expert has said that anybody who wants health care under my plan will be able to obtain it. President Clinton's own secretary of Labor has said that my plan does more to reduce costs and as a consequence makes sure that the people who need health care right now, all across America, will be able to obtain it. And we do more to reduce costs than any other plan that's been out there."

obama is pro-abortion, another issue i completely disagree with. i've never and will never be a fan of abortion...PERIOD. the reality of the situation is everyone is allowed to his/ or her own decisions. sadly, there are people who just don't give a sh/t, and will continue to bring children into the world, and live off of the government....so once again, i can understand his view.

Yet he himself admits he doesn't want to make a decision as to WHEN "life" begins as a definition. This is the basic premise of abortion. So if you don't know when "life" begins, how can you say you're for or against?

his most important views on immigration revolve around giving legal citizens precedence over illegals. naturally, i'd think any American citizen would support that plan. do you know what it's like to finish high school, go to college, get a degree, struggle to find a stable job at a STABLE COMPANY in your field (only to fail), and finally have to settle for a job (just to keep your bills paid and food in your stomach) working next to an illegal who probably hasn't even completed high school. after all of that, you're only making $2hr more than him...and to make it worse, you have to pay taxes on your money! this also goes hand in hand with his view on giving tax breaks to companies that do not out-source to other countries. as far as getting rid of the illegals that're here...that's something that took more than 4yrs to happen, and will take even longer to fix.

Not what I've read about his immigration views. From what I've seen, he wants to give licenses to illegals, free health care for illegals, and different forms of amnesty as part of his resolution.

i touched on this with gun control. he also mentioned at the DNC about how he intends on increasing funding for law enforcement. i used to live in lithonia, and remember when the city's police department got shut down. how ridiculous is that??? meanwhile, the liquor store IN THE SAME PLAZA is booming with business! pizza hut down the street...booming! sh/t makes no sense.

There's more to crime prevention than just gun control. It is a big part, but there's also: law enforcement, legal system, and prison system. Where does he stand or does he even have plans for any of the other parts?

he wants to take more diplomatic approaches with global issues. he's a member of the senate foreign relations committee...i mean really...what more "stance" on foreign policy could anyone ask for??? because he's not some gun-ho warrior, itching to press the red button, he's ready to handly foreign issues? there sure were A LOT of other countries that welcomed him with open arms when he made is trip around the world a few months ago. that's something that even good ol' George senior commended him for.

Yep, he wants to sit down with terrorists and dictators to "talk" about the problems. Right! That's going to work about as good as "talking" down a bully. You have to hand that bully a good a$$ whoopin before he will ever listen to anything you have to say. Obama doesn't want to do that. He wants to pacify that bully by sitting down and having tea and crumpets with them. Yeah, right. The same people that want to KILL YOU are going to come running to have tea and crumpets with you. Okie dokie. Makes perfect sense. This is one of the big problems I have with Obama. He's a pacifist.

staunch supporter on education...willing to give tax breaks students (or parents)...willing improve educator's salaries (we ALL know some teachers just don't make enough). he has a plan for EVERY level of education, from improving the quality of education, to assisting with the financial burden. education is invaluable...and i can appreciate ANYONE who wants to improve the quality.

I give him that. He does have some good ideas on Education.

family values has been one of his greatest platforms. he stresses family values in EVERY speech he makes. i personally feel that he's a great man, superb father, and devoted husband. i think he's laid an almost rock-solid foundation for the future of his own children. on almost EVERY interview-special that he's done, he is forever telling the story of how he met his wife. i'll always believe he has strong family values...unless i read an article about how he IKE-d the sh.it out of michelle, and the see her with sunglasses on an interview.

Give him this one as well.

[stephen]

Well, I don't understand disarming LAW ABIDING CITIZENS at all. Neither did our founding fathers, hence it is part of the Constitution. So his idea that you disarm people and leave them unable to defend themselves against criminals who care nothing about "laws" by definition is totally absurd to me. Any person who professes to be a supporter of MORE protection against civil liberties, as Obama professes, infractions doesn't try to take away my CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to bear arms and protect myself, my family, and possibly others. It's an oxymoron.

have our "founding fathers" ever been wrong (13th, 14th, 15th amendments ring a bell)? as i stated, i DO NOT SUPPORT his position on gun control...BUT realize that there is a bigger picture. there were 2 bills that he attempted to get past prior to him running for president...1 allowing citizens to only purchase 1 gun a month and 2 banning semi-automatic weapons. i'm not sure how many guns you feel you need a month to protect yourself/family/others? the semi-automatic bill...well that's a different story...one that i would never support. neither bill takes away from our constitutional right to bear arms...it just makes things more difficult.

Actually, he's clearly said he would pull troops out if elected. Therefore it would leave a war unfinished, a void that Terrorists/Dictators would fill, and only give us a repeat of the Clinton no-backbone-left-unfinished initial war in Iraq where we could have avoided 9-11 all together.

IRAQ WAS NOT THE CAUSE OF 9-11...afghanistan maybe, but not IRAQ. he did say he would pull troops out, but in a timely manner...MUCH LIKE WHAT THE TROOP WITHDRAWL PLAN WE HAVE NOW.

Wrong. He does want to implement tax changes that affect high wage earners as if that is going to resolve something. It won't. Look at it this way, the top wage earners comprise only 1% of ALL tax payers, yet they pay way more than 1% of all taxes. So you want to penalize high wage earners for making money, so you can give it to those of us that don't make that kind of money? How's that make sense? That's a Socialist idea, not a democratic one. Why not make it equal across the board and make it a consumption tax, ie. the fair tax? Rich people SPEND money to avoid paying income taxes on it. When you SPEND money, under a fair tax, they get TAXED. It doesn't matter if you're illegal, drug dealer, unemployed, or Donald Trump. You would PAY taxes which in turn would mean Trillions in revenue we DON'T SEE now. Why? Because those illegals, drug dealers, and unemployed DON'T PAY TAXES NOW. How can people not see that would net MORE revenue?

have you taken a look at the recent GDP numbers? those stimulus checks gave us a 3.3% increase in the GDP...a number we haven't seen in a while. check this out...you weren't given a stimilus check if you made over a certain amount (75k i believe), and you also weren't given the full amount based on your income. basically, by giving WORKING MIDDLE CLASS americans under the $75k income bracket an extra $600 in their tax return, has provided our economy a 3.3% increase in the GDP. PROOF POSITIVE that providing financial support to WORKING MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES WILL RESULT IN A POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE ECONOMY.

Wrong again. He does support Nationalized Health Care. Here is his own quote, from his own personal website:

"OBAMA: Well, look, I believe in universal health care, as does Sen. Clinton. And the point of the debate, is that Sen. Clinton repeatedly claims that I don't stand for universal health care. And, you know, for Sen. Clinton to say that, I think, is simply not accurate. Every expert has said that anybody who wants health care under my plan will be able to obtain it. President Clinton's own secretary of Labor has said that my plan does more to reduce costs and as a consequence makes sure that the people who need health care right now, all across America, will be able to obtain it. And we do more to reduce costs than any other plan that's been out there."

this is where obama's backbone becomes an issue. regardless of how obama words it, HE'S NOT FIGHTING FOR NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE, and RIGHTLY SO. nationalized healthcare is what they have in Canada, where THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES/PAYS FOR ALL HEALTHCARE. making healthcare more affordable still keeps the American people paying for it, but at a rate that they can afford. NATIONALIZED/FREE HEALTHCARE IS STUPID, and obama needs to make it more clear for people (who hear the wrong message)to understand that is not his primary objective....AFFORDABLE NOT FREE. the result of free healthcare is waiting list for critical operations, and that would just create a bigger issue within itself.

Yet he himself admits he doesn't want to make a decision as to WHEN "life" begins as a definition. This is the basic premise of abortion. So if you don't know when "life" begins, how can you say you're for or against?

once again...something that i don't agree with him on. abortion is a moral issue, and it's something that i'm against. either way it goes...i'll never do it, so i could careless what obama or mccain has to say on the issue...it's "win win" for me.

Not what I've read about his immigration views. From what I've seen, he wants to give licenses to illegals, free health care for illegals, and different forms of amnesty as part of his resolution.

yes, he has made statements on giving amnesty (not sure about licenses and healthcare), but think about it in terms of taxes. 12 million illegal people are here, taking citizen's jobs, and not even paying taxes. it's impossible to send 12 million people back home...but you can give them their "american dream" and make them pay taxes like the rest of us.

There's more to crime prevention than just gun control. It is a big part, but there's also: law enforcement, legal system, and prison system. Where does he stand or does he even have plans for any of the other parts?

i already mentioned his plans for law enforcement, and i'll admit i don't know a whole lot about what he intends on doing with the legal/prison system (both of which i don't intend on seeing in my life-time). funding is an issue within the smaller cities around the U.S. i've heard him specifically say that he wants to increase funding for LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT (keep them better equipped, pay for MORE police officers, etc.). it isn't ALL about gun control.

Yep, he wants to sit down with terrorists and dictators to "talk" about the problems. Right! That's going to work about as good as "talking" down a bully. You have to hand that bully a good a$$ whoopin before he will ever listen to anything you have to say. Obama doesn't want to do that. He wants to pacify that bully by sitting down and having tea and crumpets with them. Yeah, right. The same people that want to KILL YOU are going to come running to have tea and crumpets with you. Okie dokie. Makes perfect sense. This is one of the big problems I have with Obama. He's a pacifist.

you're right, you can't "pacify" a bully...but what country is REALLY bullying the U.S.??? NOT ONE. our military is only so big man...we can't turn EVERYONE into an enemy. like i said before, terrorism and dictatorship exist ALL OVER, and we can't fight it alone. we need to do a better job at strengthening our relationships with ALLIES, and gaining MORE ALLIES, so that when the time does come to kick a$$, we can get down to it. obama has a unique ability to talk, and make his speeches "connect" with people...so why not let him do it? once again...when dude went across the world, he was accepted with open arms, SOMETHING BUSH SENIOR ADMIRED...that's something that you republicans need to think more about...MAVERICKS AREN'T ALWAYS GUN-SLINGERS...

[Jaimecbr900]

have our "founding fathers" ever been wrong (13th, 14th, 15th amendments ring a bell)? as i stated, i DO NOT SUPPORT his position on gun control...BUT realize that there is a bigger picture. there were 2 bills that he attempted to get past prior to him running for president...1 allowing citizens to only purchase 1 gun a month and 2 banning semi-automatic weapons. i'm not sure how many guns you feel you need a month to protect yourself/family/others? the semi-automatic bill...well that's a different story...one that i would never support. neither bill takes away from our constitutional right to bear arms...it just makes things more difficult.

I don't understand how liberal minded people like Obama and yourself think. So the answer to the problem of crime is to blame it on inanimate objects. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So any form of Gun control is not going to solve anything. Why can't yall understand that ANY legislation to limit ANY gun ownership will ONLY affect LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Much like the Democratic party feels they must "punish" high achievers for their success by taxing them even MORE, gun control "controls" only ONE segment of the population. Criminals wipe their a$$ with laws, the Constitution, and the paper is printed on. So you and Obama want to stop criminals with PAPER???? Let me know how that works out for you. Meanwhile, I'll be sitting in the corner with my 50 guns ready to take up for myself. Let's see who's left standing after a while.

IRAQ WAS NOT THE CAUSE OF 9-11...afghanistan maybe, but not IRAQ. he did say he would pull troops out, but in a timely manner...MUCH LIKE WHAT THE TROOP WITHDRAWL PLAN WE HAVE NOW.

You didn't get it. Iraq wasn't the cause of 9-11, but the great white hope CLINTON WAS. He had Ossamah in the cross hairs and could've wiped him off the face of the earth. He decided being PC was more important, and more than 3000 people paid for that mistake with their lives.

Obama wants to withdraw the troops immediately. He's back pedalled for a while now, but that is his basic premise. Have we not learned anything from that mistake? Why are we in Iraq now? Because we didn't finish the job the Sr. started and listened to the U.N. That's it. Had Hussein been dealt with back in 91, we wouldn't be in Iraq today. That's a fact. Now, Obama is itching to make the same mistake in the name of votes.

have you taken a look at the recent GDP numbers? those stimulus checks gave us a 3.3% increase in the GDP...a number we haven't seen in a while. check this out...you weren't given a stimilus check if you made over a certain amount (75k i believe), and you also weren't given the full amount based on your income. basically, by giving WORKING MIDDLE CLASS americans under the $75k income bracket an extra $600 in their tax return, has provided our economy a 3.3% increase in the GDP. PROOF POSITIVE that providing financial support to WORKING MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES WILL RESULT IN A POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE ECONOMY.

#1. Where are you getting these numbers from?
#2. If you think that Middle America invested that $600, you are sadly mistaken. I'm willing to bet that 90% just spent it at will.
#3. Look at the fiasco FEMA caused when they simply handed people check cards after Katrina. Money was spent on stupid things like drugs, fur coats, and jewelry. The bare necesseties? Yeah right! So keep thinking that handing out money is going to suddenly make people more economically smart. It doesn't. Look at the welfare system in America. You think it promotes people to get on their feet or just sit back on their rump?

this is where obama's backbone becomes an issue. regardless of how obama words it, HE'S NOT FIGHTING FOR NATIONALIZED HEALTHCARE, and RIGHTLY SO. nationalized healthcare is what they have in Canada, where THE GOVERNMENT PROVIDES/PAYS FOR ALL HEALTHCARE. making healthcare more affordable still keeps the American people paying for it, but at a rate that they can afford. NATIONALIZED/FREE HEALTHCARE IS STUPID, and obama needs to make it more clear for people (who hear the wrong message)to understand that is not his primary objective....AFFORDABLE NOT FREE. the result of free healthcare is waiting list for critical operations, and that would just create a bigger issue within itself.

Are you Obama's speech writer? I know how to read well. His own words say he is for Nationalized healthcare. He can candy coat everything he wants, but that's what it is. Do you think that if someone ASKS you if you can "afford" health insurance people will be honest and say "ummm, yeah, I really can....". Hell no they won't. They're going to take it like any other hand out. So then instead of making people responsible for their own health insurance, you are going to make them.....what.....DEPENDENT on yet another GOV'T hand out. It's not about healthy babies or sweet little old ladies that can't go to the doctor. It's about dependency. The more people depend on the GOV'T to give them something, the bigger and more controlling the GOV'T gets.

yes, he has made statements on giving amnesty (not sure about licenses and healthcare), but think about it in terms of taxes. 12 million illegal people are here, taking citizen's jobs, and not even paying taxes. it's impossible to send 12 million people back home...but you can give them their "american dream" and make them pay taxes like the rest of us.

The same thing can be done by simply implementing the Fair tax. No need for amnesty. Amnesty is looking the other way when someone commits a crime in the name of collecting more taxes. Why not just make drugs legal so we can then tax the dealers? It's the same idea. So immigration reform only means turn the other cheek to you guys? How about we make the legalization process easier so that people that WANT to do it don't have to wait forever to do so? How about closing down our borders? How about we scrutinize foreigners MORE without worrying about being PC? How about we don't offer so many free hand outs to illegals? How about enforcing the laws that are already on the books NOW? That to me is reform and action. Amnesty is the easy way out.

you're right, you can't "pacify" a bully...but what country is REALLY bullying the U.S.??? NOT ONE. our military is only so big man...we can't turn EVERYONE into an enemy. like i said before, terrorism and dictatorship exist ALL OVER, and we can't fight it alone. we need to do a better job at strengthening our relationships with ALLIES, and gaining MORE ALLIES, so that when the time does come to kick a$$, we can get down to it. obama has a unique ability to talk, and make his speeches "connect" with people...so why not let him do it? once again...when dude went across the world, he was accepted with open arms, SOMETHING BUSH SENIOR ADMIRED...that's something that you republicans need to think more about...MAVERICKS AREN'T ALWAYS GUN-SLINGERS...

The typical UN, we need everybody's approval before looking out for ourselves, response.

Does the UN, France, Russia, Nigeria, China, N. Korea, or Saudi Arabia send aid here? Do they pay my taxes? Do they wait on OUR approval before waging war against anyone? Nope. They do whatever they damn well please when they please it. So why do we need their approval for anything? It's ridiculous.

By sitting down with Terrorist nations, terrorists, dictators, the UN, etc. we are doing nothing but sitting down with the "bully" to pacify THEM. I have yet to see a single Middle Eastern leader bring their happy a$$ over to the Whitehouse and sit down with the Pres. and say "hey, how can I help you get rid of terrorism...." since Sadat.....and we all know what happened to him, right? Why should we then think that sitting down with them is going to do anything except assure them that suicide bombers and threats work. What does Israel do when they get bombed by the Palestinians? They bomb right back. They don't wait for UN to give them permission. They shoot back. How do you think that such a small "nation" has been able to keep control of that area? Every other Muslim nation hates them, yet they've been able to keep them from over running them. How? By not taking any crap from any of them. You send a suicide bomber to that country, they fire 3 missiles right back at YOUR country.

So you still want to sit down and have tea and crumpets with Allah Akbar who wants to KILL YOU? Go ahead. Be my guest.

[stephen]

I don't understand how liberal minded people like Obama and yourself think. So the answer to the problem of crime is to blame it on inanimate objects. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So any form of Gun control is not going to solve anything. Why can't yall understand that ANY legislation to limit ANY gun ownership will ONLY affect LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Much like the Democratic party feels they must "punish" high achievers for their success by taxing them even MORE, gun control "controls" only ONE segment of the population. Criminals wipe their a$$ with laws, the Constitution, and the paper is printed on. So you and Obama want to stop criminals with PAPER???? Let me know how that works out for you. Meanwhile, I'll be sitting in the corner with my 50 guns ready to take up for myself. Let's see who's left standing after a while.

i'm not sure how many different ways you want me to tell you...I DISAGREE WITH OBAMA'S GUN POLICY...all i can say is i can understand his thinking....extremely drastic, but understandable.

You didn't get it. Iraq wasn't the cause of 9-11, but the great white hope CLINTON WAS. He had Ossamah in the cross hairs and could've wiped him off the face of the earth. He decided being PC was more important, and more than 3000 people paid for that mistake with their lives.

Obama wants to withdraw the troops immediately. He's back pedalled for a while now, but that is his basic premise. Have we not learned anything from that mistake? Why are we in Iraq now? Because we didn't finish the job the Sr. started and listened to the U.N. That's it. Had Hussein been dealt with back in 91, we wouldn't be in Iraq today. That's a fact. Now, Obama is itching to make the same mistake in the name of votes.

I GET IT...SO IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT...riiiight. let me hip you to a little reading material from THE MEMOIRS OF BUSH SENIOR...then i want you to think about this $10billion a month war WITH YOUR MONEY, instigated by our fearless leader....junior...and willing to be continued by mccain.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp

#1. Where are you getting these numbers from?
#2. If you think that Middle America invested that $600, you are sadly mistaken. I'm willing to bet that 90% just spent it at will.
#3. Look at the fiasco FEMA caused when they simply handed people check cards after Katrina. Money was spent on stupid things like drugs, fur coats, and jewelry. The bare necesseties? Yeah right! So keep thinking that handing out money is going to suddenly make people more economically smart. It doesn't. Look at the welfare system in America. You think it promotes people to get on their feet or just sit back on their rump?

1. BUREAU OF ECONOMIC ANALYSIS (geez...i guess it's not that republicans don't understand, you just DON'T KNOW).
2008 Q1 +.9%
2008 Q2 +3.3%

2. lol, dude...the money had nothing to do with INVESTING IT, it was solely the purpose of spending it. the idea was for 100% of the people to spend it, in order to do what.....STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.

3. FEMA checks...how about you give me some numbers this time on the amount of drugs, furs, and jewelry were purchased, then i'll follow you onto this one.

here's another link for you: http://www.reuters.com/article/busin...rpc=23&sp=true

Are you Obama's speech writer? I know how to read well. His own words say he is for Nationalized healthcare. He can candy coat everything he wants, but that's what it is. Do you think that if someone ASKS you if you can "afford" health insurance people will be honest and say "ummm, yeah, I really can....". Hell no they won't. They're going to take it like any other hand out. So then instead of making people responsible for their own health insurance, you are going to make them.....what.....DEPENDENT on yet another GOV'T hand out. It's not about healthy babies or sweet little old ladies that can't go to the doctor. It's about dependency. The more people depend on the GOV'T to give them something, the bigger and more controlling the GOV'T gets.

no, i'm not his speech writer...but i do understand DEFINITIONS. dude can call it what he wants, but it's not that....but whatever, that's neither here nor there. want more OFFICIAL numbers? these come from THE CENSUS BUREAU.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthi...lthfigs07.html
click on "FIGURE 6." i want you to look closely at the dates bush senior was in office, then clinton, then junior. look closely at the unisured percentages from the begining of each of their terms, to the end, and tell me YOU don't see a trend.

The same thing can be done by simply implementing the Fair tax. No need for amnesty. Amnesty is looking the other way when someone commits a crime in the name of collecting more taxes. Why not just make drugs legal so we can then tax the dealers? It's the same idea. So immigration reform only means turn the other cheek to you guys? How about we make the legalization process easier so that people that WANT to do it don't have to wait forever to do so? How about closing down our borders? How about we scrutinize foreigners MORE without worrying about being PC? How about we don't offer so many free hand outs to illegals? How about enforcing the laws that are already on the books NOW? That to me is reform and action. Amnesty is the easy way out.

dude...mccain wants to REDUCE taxes, and still pay for stuff WE CAN'T AFFORD. it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

you know what's funny though...obama and mccain have similiar plans on dealing with immigration, and yet you're still arguing how OBAMA's idea is the one that wrong. actually...their plans are EXACTLY THE SAME...something i just learned after doing a little more research on YOUR CANDIDATE.

The typical UN, we need everybody's approval before looking out for ourselves, response.

Does the UN, France, Russia, Nigeria, China, N. Korea, or Saudi Arabia send aid here? Do they pay my taxes? Do they wait on OUR approval before waging war against anyone? Nope. They do whatever they damn well please when they please it. So why do we need their approval for anything? It's ridiculous.

By sitting down with Terrorist nations, terrorists, dictators, the UN, etc. we are doing nothing but sitting down with the "bully" to pacify THEM. I have yet to see a single Middle Eastern leader bring their happy a$$ over to the Whitehouse and sit down with the Pres. and say "hey, how can I help you get rid of terrorism...." since Sadat.....and we all know what happened to him, right? Why should we then think that sitting down with them is going to do anything except assure them that suicide bombers and threats work. What does Israel do when they get bombed by the Palestinians? They bomb right back. They don't wait for UN to give them permission. They shoot back. How do you think that such a small "nation" has been able to keep control of that area? Every other Muslim nation hates them, yet they've been able to keep them from over running them. How? By not taking any crap from any of them. You send a suicide bomber to that country, they fire 3 missiles right back at YOUR country.

So you still want to sit down and have tea and crumpets with Allah Akbar who wants to KILL YOU? Go ahead. Be my guest.

you're missing the point...you conservatives walk with blinders on. nobody needs the U.N. approval...but seriously, how much can the U.S. do to fight a GLOBAL problem all on its own???? you know what...fu.ck it....let's spend $10 billion a month of OUR MONEY to shoot up 2 small countries for 100yrs. let's allow 100+ americans to die every month, in 2 countries for a cause that plagues THE WORLD. let's allow young men and women (by the thousands) to come home in ridiculous mental conditions, medical conditions, and addictions to prove that we've got the biggest nuts on the planet. better yet...let's just let them not come home at all...give them a life sentence in the sands of some foreign desert, without the possibility of parole. have you ever heard of "stop-loss?" look into it, there was even a movie about it (great movie too). like i showed you a little further up...BUSH SENIOR DIDN'T THINK IRAQ WAS A GOOD MOVE FOR AMERICA, and he made that clear during his OWN presidency.

by the way....where did "Allah Akbar" get his weapons from in the first place? as a matter of fact...whose daddy gave them to him? i guess they were decent enough people to sit down with, and sell guns to at some point...right?

[Jaimecbr900]

i'm not sure how many different ways you want me to tell you...I DISAGREE WITH OBAMA'S GUN POLICY...all i can say is i can understand his thinking....extremely drastic, but understandable.

So you "understand" it, yet disagree with it. Got it.

You justified it with all your facts and figures about the black youth death rate.

I GET IT...SO IT'S CLINTON'S FAULT...riiiight. let me hip you to a little reading material from THE MEMOIRS OF BUSH SENIOR...then i want you to think about this $10billion a month war WITH YOUR MONEY, instigated by our fearless leader....junior...and willing to be continued by mccain.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp

So Clinton DIDN'T have Ossamah in his sights and DECLINED to kill him???? You need to do better research instead of buying into your party line's idea to blame the Republicans. He DID have Ossamah in his sights....CONFIRMED...but he decided, all by himself, that it was NOT prudent to take him out because what???? There was the son of an important person in the tent with him....probably plotting to kill you and me both. Great decision there, huh? So yes, 9-11 could have possibly been avoided had CLINTON.....a DEMOCRAT.....had the nads to quit being PC and take out a major "threat" then, which turned out to be a REAL threat now.

Instigate? Really? How about Hussein? Did he "instigate" by giving the entire world the middle finger and not abiding by the terms of HIS surrender or were we just bullying him? How about Ossamah? Is he sitting in some cave praying to Allah about world peace and harmony or he and his followers plotting how to KILL all of us? "Instigate"????? I think you need to look up the definition to that.

1. BUREAU OF ECONOMIC ANALYSIS (geez...i guess it's not that republicans don't understand, you just DON'T KNOW).
2008 Q1 +.9%
2008 Q2 +3.3%

Show me figures at the end of the year. Look up figures every year right after tax season. Let's see how that pans out.

2. lol, dude...the money had nothing to do with INVESTING IT, it was solely the purpose of spending it. the idea was for 100% of the people to spend it, in order to do what.....STIMULATE THE ECONOMY.

Then why not give everyone $6000 instead of $600?

3. FEMA checks...how about you give me some numbers this time on the amount of drugs, furs, and jewelry were purchased, then i'll follow you onto this one.

I guess Republicans aren't the only ones that "don't know", huh? This was common knowledge and even prosecuted just a few short years ago when the fiasco happened.

no, i'm not his speech writer...but i do understand DEFINITIONS. dude can call it what he wants, but it's not that....but whatever, that's neither here nor there. want more OFFICIAL numbers? these come from THE CENSUS BUREAU.
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/hlthi...lthfigs07.html
click on "FIGURE 6." i want you to look closely at the dates bush senior was in office, then clinton, then junior. look closely at the unisured percentages from the begining of each of their terms, to the end, and tell me YOU don't see a trend.

I didn't say it, nor did you. Obama said it. So don't try and back pedal out of it now. He's always wanted nationalized health care. It's common knowledge.

dude...mccain wants to REDUCE taxes, and still pay for stuff WE CAN'T AFFORD. it's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE.

Much like how Obama is going to make all these "changes" without accounting for funding. Tit for tat. It's politics 101. Over promise and under deliver.

you know what's funny though...obama and mccain have similiar plans on dealing with immigration, and yet you're still arguing how OBAMA's idea is the one that wrong. actually...their plans are EXACTLY THE SAME...something i just learned after doing a little more research on YOUR CANDIDATE.

Show me where I said that I agreed with Mccain 100%. I certainly don't.

by the way....where did "Allah Akbar" get his weapons from in the first place? as a matter of fact...whose daddy gave them to him? i guess they were decent enough people to sit down with, and sell guns to at some point...right?

I guess you've never had a friend backstab you, huh? Well that's exactly what happened when we supplied our "allies" weapons and then they suddenly turned on us. How's that our fault? Does Obama have some kind of magic crystal ball that's going to avoid this? Show me where.

[stephen]

So you "understand" it, yet disagree with it. Got it.

why is that so impossible...to understand someone's logic, but still feel like they're going about it wrong???

You justified it with all your facts and figures about the black youth death rate.

and here lies the problem; the BIGGEST "NOBAMA" problem...i made ONE reference to black youth death rate, and why he's able to pull "certain" black voters, and now i've given you ALL THESE BLACK FIGURES...lol, nevermind the fact that i told you he wants to provide EVERYONE with better LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. i should've just said, "i'm making a valid point! here's a straw...grab it! QUICK!"

So Clinton DIDN'T have Ossamah in his sights and DECLINED to kill him???? You need to do better research instead of buying into your party line's idea to blame the Republicans. He DID have Ossamah in his sights....CONFIRMED...but he decided, all by himself, that it was NOT prudent to take him out because what???? There was the son of an important person in the tent with him....probably plotting to kill you and me both. Great decision there, huh? So yes, 9-11 could have possibly been avoided had CLINTON.....a DEMOCRAT.....had the nads to quit being PC and take out a major "threat" then, which turned out to be a REAL threat now.

ok, i get it...so SADDAM IS TO BLAME FOR 9-11 AND WE DIDN'T KILL HIM FOR PAST WAR CRIMES AGAINST HIS OWN PEOPLE...alright, it's making sense

Instigate? Really? How about Hussein? Did he "instigate" by giving the entire world the middle finger and not abiding by the terms of HIS surrender or were we just bullying him? How about Ossamah? Is he sitting in some cave praying to Allah about world peace and harmony or he and his followers plotting how to KILL all of us? "Instigate"????? I think you need to look up the definition to that.

you're right...instigate was a bad choice of words, i can admit that...hardheaded like Palin's daughter is more like it (he didn't listen to daddy). how many service members did we lose to kill ONE MAN??? you know as much as i know, politics is more than just you, me, and the american people. dude, EVEN ROCKEFELLER admitted to sitting down and having a conversation with bin laden 20 years ago...and who was president and vice president then??? REAGAN AND BUSH SR. i'm sure bin laden didn't wake up in 2001 and say "well...i think i'm going to become an extremist today." talk about having someone in your sights...lol

Show me figures at the end of the year. Look up figures every year right after tax season. Let's see how that pans out.

damn man...i looked it up, explained it to you, and even gave you the SOURCE to educate yourself, and all you can tell me is "look up figures..."
lol, at the end of the year it'll be TOO LATE. besides...it was named "ECONOMIC STIMULUS" for a reason, that should explain enough for you right there.

Then why not give everyone $6000 instead of $600?

ask our fearless leader...i can't answer that for you. if you took the time to read the article i pointed you to, you'd see that the dems actually requested a second stimulus check be issued...bush felt like it did enough and wasn't necessary...meanwhile THE COUNTRY is still in debt.

I guess Republicans aren't the only ones that "don't know", huh? This was common knowledge and even prosecuted just a few short years ago when the fiasco happened.

i never said i didn't know...i told you to prove it. show me figures of the people that blew that money vs. the people that did what they were supposed to do with it. of course the negative is going to stand out...

OH, and for the record...FEMA check recipients weren't the only ones to waste money. how much of the disaster area did the government actually rebuild? how about their plans to get rid of low income/affordable housing and replace them with lavish, high income neighborhoods, country clubs, and casinos.

I didn't say it, nor did you. Obama said it. So don't try and back pedal out of it now. He's always wanted nationalized health care. It's common knowledge.

lol, i'm not back pedaling...my stance has stood the same...i can't explain it to you any better...i'm sorry.

Much like how Obama is going to make all these "changes" without accounting for funding. Tit for tat. It's politics 101. Over promise and under deliver.

he's accounting for it...you just don't like it!

Show me where I said that I agreed with Mccain 100%. I certainly don't.

are you going to vote for him? if so, show me why you think he's worth putting in charge of this country.

I guess you've never had a friend backstab you, huh? Well that's exactly what happened when we supplied our "allies" weapons and then they suddenly turned on us. How's that our fault? Does Obama have some kind of magic crystal ball that's going to avoid this? Show me where.

there's a difference between having a FRIEND backstab you, versus putting trust in an ENEMY. lol, how's that our fault...are you serious? well who's fault is it??? like i said before, we knew who these people were LOOONG BEFORE 9/11, and they were always the same people. the only difference was we had a common enemy...RUSSIA...that didn't make us friends. that's like saying...i know you're a "stick up" kid, and we have a common enemy...so i give you a gun to protect yourself and possibly get rid of OUR enemy. who's fault is it if you put that same gun in my face 10 years later?

honestly mang, i enjoyed this long a$$ discussion...i actually learned some stuff (like mccain's immigration stance). my whole point was to prove that there are "reasonable" obama supporters out there...far more than you believe. there will never be THE PERFECT president...NEVER. i feel like i've heard/read enough about obama's political agendas, and i'm willing to give him the opportunity improve this country. i hear more about mccain's 5yrs in vietnam, than anything else...it's in EVERY SINGLE SPEECH (given by him and others). there's are times when we need "first to fight" type of presidents, it's just not now...not when we've got so much stuff going on within the country. when i look at the fact a democratic government got us the LARGEST economic surplus IN HISTORY, and 8yrs. later we end up with a $9.5 TRILLION DEBT under a republican government (whose new presidential nominee agreed with atleast 80% of the choices that got us there), the choice just seems simple...lol.

i don't even know what come after 1 trillion....zillion maybe.