lowering

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

Sleek-CRX-Si,

A couple of questions for you, sir. First, I'm curious as to what what class and/or type of SCCA racing you do, so could you please expand on your 4-year's worth of experience/involvement a little? Second, 117 mph entrance speed would be impressive, are you sure that's how fast you were actually going? I am quite familiar with the "clover leaf" at the Mall of GA so I'd just like to make sure you really meant to type 117. Third, was your "call out" for a race ever answered?

as for my 4 years of ex I have raced in the STS2 (street touring solo 2) it's been pretty fun I enjoy it but just like everyone there are certain days that I don't feel up to it. oh yeah and 117mph onthe onramp of the mall of ga is correct. I know that sounds rediculous but I can see if I can get a hold of my friend that went off to the military he can vouch. It was pretty crazy my friend almost shit his pants. us and a black hatch were racing toward the mall and as we went under the bridge there was a speacial opps cop sitting there as we flew by. My notion was to run because I did not want to go to jail so I hit the on ramp and got on the highway. I got off at the next exit which is swannee I think and took a right and parked at the wal-mart and had a friend to pick me up.

[Kermit]

as for my 4 years of ex I have raced in the STS2 (street touring solo 2) it's been pretty fun I enjoy it but just like everyone there are certain days that I don't feel up to it. oh yeah and 117mph onthe onramp of the mall of ga is correct. I know that sounds rediculous but I can see if I can get a hold of my friend that went off to the military he can vouch. It was pretty crazy my friend almost shit his pants. us and a black hatch were racing toward the mall and as we went under the bridge there was a speacial opps cop sitting there as we flew by. My notion was to run because I did not want to go to jail so I hit the on ramp and got on the highway. I got off at the next exit which is swannee I think and took a right and parked at the wal-mart and had a friend to pick me up.

I'm not exactly trying to call you out or anything, as I do believe that you probably have autocrossed, but I thought that you would like to know that the the class you say you run in, and I quote, "STS2 (street touring solo 2)", has only been an actual class since the spring of 2004. I believe that STS2, which, by the way, stands for Street Touring Sport-2, where the "2" stands for 2-seater, is an expansion of STS because of the large weight difference between 2 and 4 seaters. Also, I do not believe that you have ever exceeded 100 mph at any Atlanta Region Solo2 event with the possible exception of the events at "Little Talledega". Lastly, one of my many reasons for doubting your claims is due to the fact that your "call out" for a race was for a 1/4 mile race where as most, and I suppose there are exceptions, SCCA members/drivers would first make a challenge on a road and/or autocross course, then possibly a winding road, such as the mountains or similar road, and then, as a last resort, a straight line drag race.

[HiPSI]

must I emberass everyone that tries to make me look like a fool.

no need, you do it all on your own.

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

once again as stated before I knew you would come back becuase that's the type of person you are. You would fight this until your dying day. you asked me what my experience was based of and you insult me ability to comprehend the english language when in truth you are being a hypocrit due to that fact that I explained my experience to everyone and why I do not choose to use coilovers. You should have read that but yet you still ask me why. So the question is DO YOU HAVE A READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM? I sure dont! If you'ed like I can go in my files and see if I can find one of my thesis papers and scan it for you because once again I don't talk shit unless I can back it up. English happed to be one of my strongest suits in school so you might want to drop that subject before your horribly emberssed on a whole different playing field. I told you about the spring rates and I even gave an examples to go along with my experience. so you might want to have a mental evaluation done to see if your competant. you speak a good game but once again you will always look like a fool in the end b/c every thing you ask I answer if not had already been answered before but you still insist on asking again. You take the time to make these elabrate skits ex: YOU: "I don't use coilovers" ME: (yude) tell me why blah blah blah yep seems like your desperate to come up with ways to appear to be correct b/c if you look back I have always backed up my answers with educated answers and yet you still have and argument then I tell you that I have exprience and you tell me that's all I've been saying. You might as well tell Armstrong he can get to the moon with coilovers. guess what? He's going to tell you that you can't and he's goin to give a valid reason why not and he's going to tell you that he has experience. So I don't know about you but a VALID EXPLINATION + EXPERIENCE= A PERSON THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKIN ABOUT. So since you try to tell me that I have not given a reason here goes for the last time so that you'll get it through your scaley brain......
It is not preffered to use coilovers at the track b/c the spring rate is to high. why would this matter you may say?One reason would be chasis hop. Going around a curve at 115mph the last thing you want is chasis hop b/c everone knows what would happen if the car lifted just a litte and the wheel got a little lighter. It would be like doin 115mph on the highway and someone yanking the wheel. Not Good News. another example would be understeer. Again you might ask why. It's good to have a low center of gravity to make turning easier but with everything there is a threshold. Meaning that there is a breaking point to anything. It is a good thing to have almost no body roll but like everything there is always an exeption. If the spring rating is to high it will allow almost no body roll this will cause the car to understeer meaning you would have the big wheel effect remember what happened when you where going to fast on your big wheel and tried to turn. The wheel went which ever way you wanted but, the big wheel whent straigt. now you may say "yeah sure but the wheels were plastic thats why" but, you have to understand is that at the fastest you may have been goin is 15mph or 20 mph but in a car your doing 115mph so it's pretty much the same concept. sticky tires or not your going to slide. So to counter-act this you want to have a pretty low center of gravity with minimal body roll but it is a must to have a slight sway to give your tires that extra bite they crave when going this fast into a turn or corner. Another thing is the stress created on all of the machanical parts during a turn like this. You have to remember that this is not just a one time event; you putting stress on this part maybe as many as 300 times during a race. With the latteral G's (for those that don't know for every G it doubles the initial weight for example 100lbs at 1g would be 200lbs at 2g's would be 300lbs and so on) that these vihicles do at the track it can be up to 2x,3x or sometimes up to 4x the weight of the car pressing down on your front suspension again as many as 300 times during one event. If you use a coilover setup the canister is prone to stress cracks and ultimatley complete failure as explained by my initial story which was only at 50mph. So now imagine the catastrophic consequensis at 100+mph. So even for my little CRX if I'm holding 3g's in a turn thats 6,000lbs on that coilover setup and canister. So even in a small season maybe 20 events you are putting 6,000lbs on that canister and coilover setup MORE THAN 6,000 TIMES! Not very smart! So MR. YUDE I HOPE THOSE LITTLE EXAMPLES AND LESSONS TAUGHT YOU A VERY VALUABLE LESSON IN WHY WE DON'T USE COILOVER SETUPS IN RACING(OR AT LEAST THE SMART ONES) SO NOW YOU HAVE EXAMPLES+EXPERIENCE AND EVEN A NIFTY LITTLE STORY.

SO..... ANY MORE WORDS FROM MR.YUDE THE MASTER HIMSELF?

PLEASE DON'T COME BACK WITH SOMETHING STUPID CAUSE YOU'LL JUST BE WAISTING MY TIME WHEN BOTH YOU AND I CAR LOVERS SHOULD BE IN A GARAGE SOMEWHERE UNDER THE HOOD.

NO HARD FEELINGS DUDE BUT I DO HAVE A POINT!!!!!!

[yudalicious]

Sleek, here's why I think you have a reading comprehension problem... did I ever say all coilovers are good? You strongly opinionated against ALL coilovers, to which I replied, not all coilovers are bad... like all products, there are cheap coilovers and GOOD coilovers, however you seem to feel ALL coilovers are bad, and that's where your problem is, maybe you've had problems with a particular brand, but that one brand cannot represent all.

You state that coilovers have spring rates too high, I would partially agree, people with limited knowledge tend to buy "super stiff" set ups not knowing that it will actually hurt them, especially on solo2 events which are held on parking lots, hardly very smooth surfaces. However almost every coilover company will have a selection of softer/harder springs to choose from, each user can use whatever suits him/her.

There's also an influx of "cheap" coilovers that appeal to the ricer, the dampers are usually too under-damped to handle the spring rates they come with and aren't very digressive in their damping curve, hence why I previously said GOOD and reputable coilovers are necessary, as proper damping is very important.


As for the understeering example you brought up with the "big wheel" sorry I have no idea what you just said...I seriously question your reading comprehension and English ability, allow me to quote you:
"emberssed"
"EXPLINATION"
"preffered"
"machanical"

...like I said, if you think ALL coilovers are too stiff and of inferior quality, then you are mistaken, please don't make broad generalized statements from limited experience. If you want to turn this into an intelligent discussion of why you feel stiff is not always the best choice, I will be happy to oblige, however, you come off as a know it all jackass that has a problem with spelling, thanks.

[HiPSI]

English happed to be one of my strongest suits in school so you might want to drop that subject before your horribly emberssed

^do i even need to say anything? if english was one of your strong points, i'd hate to see how you handle a mathematical equation.

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

No I don't really have a prob with spelling but when your typing kind of fast we are all human and make mistakes SO BITE ME. I really think that was pretty petty to point out. I could have done the same with your messages but again I know nobody is perfect so I don't go to that level. But Thanks!! You are correct in a sence that I have not tried all coilover set ups but I have had more than one bad experience. off the top of my head I can remember at least six. When I finally decided to go to racing school they told me my prob was running a coil-over set up in the first place. That's when I learned the pros and cons of different and weight distribution set ups. Sorry maybe you did not have a big wheel it's that plastic tri-cycle thing with the big wheel in the front you see kids riding hope that helps!? Again you may see some still do coil over set ups but for the most part almost everyone runs springs with an ajustable Allen key tensor. I can tell you from experience that almost all the succesfull racers do have a spring set up. So like I said no hard feeling but I've had probs in the past and I have better result with spring, I've been taught to run springs and have first hand knowledge of the great result a spring setup yields. So sorry if I feel that way. Can you fault me for not wanting to let someone else go through the same thing I did if I can be of some help? Again unless they come up with a bad ass coil over set up I'm prob never going to run coil overs again!

I think that being pretty open minded about the issue!

[yudalicious]

It was also kind of petty of you to insult everyone that disagreed with you, thanks. I never disagreed with the fact that springs and dampers can be great set ups (otherwise I wouldn't run a spring/damper set up), but your believe that all coilover systems are bad is misplaced. Many successful amateur drivers and teams in SCCA use a range of good coilovers, from Ground Control + revalved KONIs to Tein RA/REs to Advance Design to Moton triple adjustables, I am sure all of their collective experience can speak for coilovers... I believe your main gripe with coilovers is that they're too stiff, but like I said you can choose to run softer springs, the fact that some shocks are threaded for height adjustment has nothing to do with how stiff they are, ie: you can have overly stiff spring+damper set up or a relatively softer coilover set up, and that's the beauty of coilovers, you get unlimited adjustablity for your liking.

With that said I am not a big fan of alot of these cheaper coilovers out there... their dampers are not up to par, often they are twin tube dampers which are in design inferior to monotube you see in better coilovers. Their damping is also under par... like I said, there's a range from poor ---> good coilovers, you just want to be in that good range (of course one that fits your purposes, if its a daily driver, you sure don't want a track-oriented set up)... you mentioned that you're using Neuspeed springs and a damper kit, what damper kit are you using?

[PacoX]

What kind of series do you race in that generates 3 Gs sustained when cornering? Most good setups with street tires can't touch 1 G; with slicks i.e. Hoosiers on a production car, getting above 1.2 G would be incredible.
I still don't get how you say that all coilovers are bad. Companies like Zeal, Ohlins, Aragosta, Advance Design, etc make incredibly good coilover setups with very good damping, different spring rates, some have multiple damping adjustment and external reservoirs, etc. A spring and off the shelf shock could never compare to a setup with such adjustability.
Putting coilovers on a car could make it understeer; however, understeer is a characteristic of balance. If all the cars you've worked on understeer with coilovers, that just means the front rates are too high, rears are too low, or some combination of the two. MANY other factors contribute to handling balance, but these are a few that are directly related to spring/shock choice.
Man, I don't even know what to say. You can't go around telling people that coilovers are bad and that springs/shocks are the best setup because that is pure MISINFORMATION. There are so many different options in each category and uses for cars that you can't just say one is better than the other. However, coilovers are generally better for track use, autoX, etc. Only big exception off the top of my head would be the nicer koni dampers and some well designed springs with proper rates taht don't drop the car too much.

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

I'm running an HKS Hiper damper kit it's been superb so far. Nuespeed srings and pretty much a lot of DC Sport items bushings, Tower and sway bars.

And You?

[yudalicious]

I'm running an HKS Hiper damper kit it's been superb so far. Nuespeed srings and pretty much a lot of DC Sport items bushings, Tower and sway bars.

And You?

Isn't the HKS Hiper damper kit a "coilover" kit? I did a search and this is what I came up with as the HKS hiper damper kit

sure looks like a height/preload adjustable coilover kit with threaded shock bodies to me.

Currently running KYB AGX shocks and RS-R "race" springs, progressive wound, spring rates 5/4.2 kg/mm f/r.

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

the pic you have is of a newer kit I think it is a Hypermax RS it's for newer applications such as rsx's and some of the newer SI's but, yes you are correct that model you have is considered a coilover. Mine looks similer but is not a coilover set up. It actually has a allen key tightner at the top that compreses and tenses whatever spring application you dicide to go with. I got mine about 3 years ago and they are currently disscontinued for my vehicle, but other companies still make the same application for my vehicle.

[yudalicious]

the pic you have is of a newer kit I think it is a Hypermax RS it's for newer applications such as rsx's and some of the newer SI's but, yes you are correct that model you have is considered a coilover. Mine looks similer but is not a coilover set up. It actually has a allen key tightner at the top that compreses and tenses whatever spring application you dicide to go with. I got mine about 3 years ago and they are currently disscontinued for my vehicle, but other companies still make the same application for my vehicle.

I'm assuming you like your HKS dampers... so what if HKS decided to make coilovers (using the same interior mechanisms and the same valving) based on your old dampers, the only difference being threaded shock bodies? Would you be so quickly to disregard them? Like I said before you can purchase a variety of springs, so if you think the springs that come with the kit are too stiff, you can always get softer ones, say, you got some custom Eibach springs in dimensions to fit your dampers in the same rate as your Neuspeed springs... so now you have a coilover set up, with height/preload adjustability that performs like you wanted. So perhaps they're not ALL that bad right?

[Bishop]

and by the way I'm 22.

According to your profile, you're 21

Birthday:
March 14, 1984

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

I may check them out b/c I've had pretty good results with the company in general.

Quote: Again unless they come up with a bad ass coil over set up I'm prob never going to run coil overs again!

I'm always willing to try something different but I would still be kinda iffy about it and I still would not do it unless something happened to my setup now.

Don't try to fix something that's not broken that's my theory!

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

mr ricer on call I do recall a call out for a rcae you might want to read all the post. So WHAT....... you got your $1,000 or title in hand and ready for a race you name the time and place! If your to lazy dumb or incompetant to go back and check this is your call out. you questioned me about my ride height and said do a real competion like the 1/4 so again for like the 5th time step up big man and get your money taken. lets see how those horsies do in a race!!!!! It's stock I promise!!!

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

oh yeah and as for my age I am 22 I must have accedently scrolled up one year. Dude come on guys we all make mistakes!!! N E way like I said when Mr Ricer and I race I'll bring my $1,000 and title my track slip from Silver Dollar and you may check out my ID for age. So Everyone gather aroun were just all waiting on MR Ricer for a time and date and we can all meet up so you guys can see Mr Ricer get his money and pride taken!

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

hope that answered some of you guys questions!

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

3g's is prob to high huh? but yeah like you said on un even sufaces you really don't want to have to high of a spring rating. when I did run coilovers it would go into a turn relatively good but about half way through if you hit a bump or dip you could forget about keepnig your tires firmly on the ground thus running a horrible time or I've even seen some lose it and plow through a couple of cones.

[Negrodamus]

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

thanx king Elli or whatever your name is but I guess it was important enough for you to put up some pic of a goofy kid. Love the entertainment it makes this boring thread that much more stranger than it already is!!!

[Negrodamus]

np

[quickdodge®]

SLEEK, are you still on here with your idiot bantering? I thought after your last ownage you'd have found a Big Lots that still sold brains and picked yourself up one. Evidently, I'm the idiot for thinking that. I bet you got your coilovers from Ebay and that would mean your ride quality. I'll take you up on your "who's lower" contest. I'm pretty sure my Neon's got you beat. When will you learn to start posting about things you know something about. Ooops...my bad. This isn't the "Rainbow Coalition" forum board.



Moron. Later, QD.

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

SLEEK, are you still on here with your idiot bantering? I thought after your last ownage you'd have found a Big Lots that still sold brains and picked yourself up one. Evidently, I'm the idiot for thinking that. I bet you got your coilovers from Ebay and that would mean your ride quality. I'll take you up on your "who's lower" contest. I'm pretty sure my Neon's got you beat. When will you learn to start posting about things you know something about. Ooops...my bad. This isn't the "Rainbow Coalition" forum board.



Moron. Later, QD.

Now as it appears seems like your the dumbass with that out of whack pic you just posted with that fucked up resolution. The question is will quickdodge ever learn how to resize his pictures? WTF!?!?! Dude if your going to post a pic to make someone feel stupid at least post a pic like this

Lesson one:


I would figure you of all people likely to Ebay b/c you have no life. What you buying on Ebay? MORE NEONS :jerkit: HAHAHAHAHAHA I'm pretty sure that adds about 200hp. oh and you mentioned Big Lots. who in the hell would shop there it's like an overpriced yardsale? Is that where you got your neons ? Big Lots!! That's about how much you can buy the entire store for. Also Since you've taken me up on my offer PM me. I've been wanting to see who your dumbass is. don't bitch out like hatch 77 otherwise you'll be the laughing stock of this thread like he was.

P.S. PM me don't bitch out I've been wanting to take your cash for a long
time.

Dumbass!! oh wait wait wait I almost forgot :jerkit: "LATER, QD." :jerkit: bah hahahaha

[dereksi]

Lol ^^^^

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

I have done other events in the SCCA. STS2 is just what I do now. I have a B18C1(GSR) swap so that allows me to get pretty good times in SOLO or drag. So when hatch 77 was talkin smack I thought I'd take him up on that deal.GSR+Small CRX= pretty good accelertion. not to mention with the car being so small I have superb handling. Sorry for the confusion!

[Negrodamus]

I have done other events in the SCCA. STS2 is just what I do now. I have a B18C1(GSR) swap so that allows me to get pretty good times in SOLO or drag. So when hatch 77 was talkin smack I thought I'd take him up on that deal.GSR+Small CRX= pretty good accelertion. not to mention with the car being so small I have superb handling. Sorry for the confusion!

[Kermit]

I have done other events in the SCCA.

Just out of curiousity, what events?

[HiPSI]

I have done other events in the SCCA. STS2 is just what I do now. I have a B18C1(GSR) swap so that allows me to get pretty good times in SOLO or drag. So when hatch 77 was talkin smack I thought I'd take him up on that deal.GSR+Small CRX= pretty good accelertion. not to mention with the car being so small I have superb handling. Sorry for the confusion!

and you can't even name these "other events" at all? the thing is, people that actually have raced SCCA can vouch for it and know what classes they run. you kept spouting off the phrase "scca tracks" in your essay sized BS posts, but someone who actually races would say track names as it would actually add credibility to their statements. if you actually did this for a living as you stated in one post, you'd be giving FACTUAL information regarding your argument, not dancing around the actual subject with call outs and insults. you do not have a single person here convinced that you know anything more than the fact that the SCCA is a sanctioning body for racing, so why do you keep arguing? it's apparent that you don't know your elbows from your asshole and most of the things you're saying are either outlandishly false or poorly put together half-truths based on your "experience", which it's also obvious that you lack.

oh and if this is what you do for a living, then who do you work for?

[Kermit]

LMAO-HiPSI made a funny

[SLEEK-CRX-SI]

yep KingElli ypu've just been proudly promoted to this threads

By the way your the only fag I know whos got pics of guys as there avatar and that other pic doesn't help your image either. Kermit has a better avatar than you at least he's pimpen in that jacket.

P.S.
If you stop wasting time posting stupid/gay pics you might find a girl or tune your car. Do you even know any Girls? Dude at least take a pic of some random girl no one will care or car. FAG!!!

[quickdodge®]

That's all you could come up with? Lolol. I think the dumbass look just went further towards you. I don't have Neons on my car. I never had. Next time you talk(or post) to me, make sure you have an SCCA championship under your belt since your doing all these SCCA things. I know I have one. Where's yours? Later, QD.

[PacoX]

Sleek, you got owned. Its truly obvious to everyone now that you are just making things up. Hitting a few solo 2 days in STS doesn't make you a pro racer. No street car will ever hit even half of 3 Gs cornering. People who actually care about learning to be good drivers don't challenge people to ride height contests. "Holla at cha boy" is not a valid way to communicate with people. You probably bought a set of cheap coilovers that broke or just had crappy valving, as any cheap product will. No wonder you think they suck. Actually, its your fault for basing your judgement upon one example of a vastly varied selection of coilovers. Stop spreading your faulty reasoning to people who are asking for real advice.

PS (to thread starter)- don't look for suspension advice on a ricer forum...the "professionals" aren't very helpful as you can now see.

[Kermit]

PS (to thread starter)- don't look for suspension advice on a ricer forum...the "professionals" aren't very helpful as you can now see.

I semi-agree. There is good advice to be found, you just have to dig through all the BS to find it.

[ahmonrah]

sleek(whatever the fuck else his name is) is a complete and total asshat !!!! damn this post is funny!!!!! he had the valls (oops, did my sleek-like strong engrish suit fail me?) to try starting shit with QD??!! BAD MOVE assleech. come through on his callout w/qd. if it goes down i wanna know so i can attend.

[ahmonrah]

ne- way when suspension becomes a focus on my current new2me acura. tien is whats going on it.