S14 is gayer because an s14 is a little better than an s13, but the killer is putting a 20 year old motor in a 8 year old car.
But a 500 dollar s13 with a 1000 motor is still queer.
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S14 is gayer because an s14 is a little better than an s13, but the killer is putting a 20 year old motor in a 8 year old car.
But a 500 dollar s13 with a 1000 motor is still queer.
I've been driving my friends rb25 s13 lately and it sucks ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastianHoff
I want to kill myself each time I get in that car. Mainly because the shifter is fucked up and I never have any clue what gear I'm in or where the fuck I'm shifting to.
You should try an automatic. One less pedal too (dont you have a club foot?)Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
It is because the bushing are fucked, I know how to drive a fucking 5spd.
The motor itself sounds good, but it'd be nice if it would to rev to something worth a god damn.
I really need jay to sign up on supraforums.com and tear ball bearing supra a new one when it comes to dsm/mitsu talk. that guy thinks all dsm are poop
Simple minds are hard to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by PSINXS
"Well I have a Supra and you have crankwalk and a broken tranny."
"I have a 6 bolt crank and a built tranny."
"Just wait, race me on the highway. HA!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
to bad he put it in a shit box. i think you can swap over ka/sr shifter, but dont hold me to that.
He has the parts to fix it but just haven't gotten around to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastianHoff
lol he's pussied out on every track call out he's gotten over there. but yet he still says they are horrible drag cars. he gets every dsm thread locked and deleted. he use to own a dsm but i guess since he got a supra he thinks he's god.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1439/2000
but back to the rb20s. they suck.
Wow...what can I say? I just joined this forums because a buddy of mine recommended it to me. Just from reading this thread alone I feel like I wasted minutes of my life.
I would like to see some substantial information regarding the RB20 was a "boat anchor". Not just everyone's opinions. From everything I have ever read, you gain approx. 50-75 lbs over the KA. And that information is from ppl who have actually driven the car (before AND after the swap) onto a scale. Sooo you gain that much weight...wow. I hardly think that qualifies the RB20 as an anchor.
As far as for the cost of the motor...I have to say that paying 1K for my motorset really upset me...gosh what would I do with all that extra money that I saved. Perhaps drop it into the car and/or motor? And I would love to hear what "ancient" technology the RB20 is equipped with. And paying extra money for the other cylinders?! Yeah I had to fork out a whopping $60 for my 440cc Supra injectors (plus the $100 to have all of them cleaned and flowed).
This debate over RB vs. SR vs. CA vs. KA is extremely irrelevant and juvenile. Until someone brings meaningful information to this thread, it still remains a pissing contest. "My SR will crush your blah-biddy-blah S13 piece of crap...."
My RB20 was pushing over 250whp (Mustang dyno), with very little dropped into it ($700 turbo, $60 injectors, SAFC) at 14psi. So I would have to say that it was not a bad investment at all.
I am sure that many ppl will reply to this talking all kinds of trash. I might have even ticked some of you off, but I have respect for ALL Nissan motors. Yes some of them have more potential than others...but don't hate on one motor because you have a biased (and uninformed) opinion. I hope there is someone else on this thread that feels the way I do. If you respond to this, please make it a relevant discussion and don't come at me with ridiculous talk about my "POS" motor and such garbage.
50 to 75lbs over a KA is the key word here. I am talking about an SR20DET, not a KA. A KA is a truck engine, designed for torque, not HP. You made 250whp on a Mustang Dyno, which as a whole reads higher than any other dyno. What is your point? If you like the RB20, than fine, whatever, but if you are saying that this forum is a waste of minutes of your life, then leave. Just like you think none of us have provided substantial information and are just typing opinions, all you are doing is the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb240det
SR20: 2 litre, came in the car stock in Japan and is what the weight balance and suspension is set up for. 50/50 weight distribution.
RB20: 2 litre, 2 more cylinders, more weight biased toward the front of the car.
You wanna build something nose heavy to make power? THEN SPEND THE FUCKING MONEY AND PUT A BIGGER IRON BLOCK ENGINE IN IT, NOT ONE THAT IS THE SAME SIZE. Everybody wants a steak dinner for Taco Bell prices. :rolleyes:
hahaha 50/50 with an SR my ass, prove it. Either way the S13 handles like shit anyways, 50/50 or not.
rb240det made a few good points, Id like to see how the peanut gallery responds :)
14psi only made 250 on a Mustang dyno? What size turbo were you using? We generally use a T3/T4, .63 ar, 50 trim, 450's, and a fuel controller, and pull 350. Guess you're running a smaller turbo. I like RB20's, and we're one of the main reasons there are so many people running around the southeast with them. Cause they are still proven to make power, not everyone is that worried about an extra 50 pounds, I even know someone pulling out their RB25 to go with a RB20. There's about to be another RB20 that will be out on the road making well over 400, closer to 500. Get you a Power FC instead of a SAFC2, you will make more reliable power.
E
250 hp with a turbo and injector upgrade? Its cheap but notcost effective. You should be able to make that on stock stuff.
My galant when it had the stock maf/injectors/turbo put down 280 AWD on a 4g63.
My 240 with stock maf/injectors/turbo put down 270 on a sr.
Matts sentra with a stock turbo sr, 650s, fmic, exhaust, z32 maf put down 305hp.
S13s have close to 50/50 distribution stock. And yes, they do handle like shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by skillzilla
Man id be very irritated to have bought a RB swap, spent $1g in upgrades and only push 250whp on a mustang dyno.
yeah I was at 228 at 13 psi, stock turbo and injectors. Dunno whats up with the low numbers.
I'm no expert, but I've done a few autocrosses, mtn runs, etc over the years...in lots of different cars. Sometimes on street tires, sometimes on slicks, etc. I've pushed every car I've owned (and several I didn't own) to their handling limits, and beyond. So I like to think that I have a decent idea of how good or bad the handling of a car is. That being said....with the right suspension/tire setup, the S13 handles great. And they do in fact have very close to 50/50 weight dist with the SR installed.
He made more good points than any of your posts have. No one takes anything you say seriously anymore. Do yourself a favor and stop responding.Quote:
Originally Posted by skillzilla
It's an RB20. That's whats up.Quote:
Originally Posted by skillzilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1439/2000
Don't forget also over 300ftlbs. Many people from this forum were at the shop when it put down those numbers as well...This was on a dynojet too none of that mustang dyno bullshit.
That right there should be the end of this thread.
SHOW ME AN RB20 DYNO SHEET WHERE THE RB20 WITH NO SPRAY ON STOCK TURBO, STOCK HEAD, STOCK BLOCK MAKES OVER 300WHP AND I'LL STFU.
I mean you have 2 extra cyl. I'm sure ya'll can do it.
Actually you are incorrect sir. The Mustang dyno reads lower than most others (ie. Dynojet). After I had it dynoed on the Mustang, I had it dynoed a week later on the same setup on a Dynojet and put down 280whp. As far as the "low" numbers, that was because I found two boost leaks later that day, and I had to take out 30% fuel correction on the SAFC to accomodate for the larger injectors, and the car still ran rich. I've already had my ECU chipped to make up for the correction, so now when I swap it to my S14 I can just use the SAFC to tweak here and there. The turbo is a T3/T4 with a .57trim and .63 A/R. I don't intend to throw a ridiculous amount of boost and go for stupid high hp numbers, I prefer my car to be well-rounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLFED
As far as your "50/50" weight distribution, that's the first I have EVER heard of that. Yeah the RB20 adds two extra cylinders, but the trans is also longer than the KA, thus making up for the front weight bias. I believe on NICO a guy had his RB20 S13 weighed and it was more like 48/52...gosh must really handle like ass.
And no I am not typing my opinion, I have actually brought numbers to the discussion. A "nose heavy" car? Honestly man, I have yet to see any hard info backing that up. Perhaps you could bring some to the table....
"Don't forget also over 300ftlbs. Many people from this forum were at the shop when it put down those numbers as well...This was on a dynojet too none of that mustang dyno bullshit.
That right there should be the end of this thread.
SHOW ME AN RB20 DYNO SHEET WHERE THE RB20 WITH NO SPRAY ON STOCK TURBO, STOCK HEAD, STOCK BLOCK MAKES OVER 300WHP AND I'LL STFU.
I mean you have 2 extra cyl. I'm sure ya'll can do it."
Mustang BS? I fail to see your short-sighted point. The Mustang dyno is more accurate than many out there because it actually takes into account the weight of the car and other factors. I probably cannot show you a dyno sheet where a stock RB20 makes over 300whp, mainly because that is PUSHING the stock turbo's efficiency, not to mention the stock injectors are only 270cc. I don't know about you, but I prefer my injectors not to be at 115% duty cycle. As far as your 2 extra cylinder nonsense, they are the same FREAKING displacement....so your point is null and void.
"Man id be very irritated to have bought a RB swap, spent $1g in upgrades and only push 250whp on a mustang dyno."
Gosh you're right...except that I've fixed the problems that plagued me of the lower numbers, and once it is swapped over, I should easily be over the 300hp mark. Please unless you have something substantial to contribute to this discussion, stay out of it.
Guys once again, no one has yet to bring anything to this thread that has actually proven any point regarding the RB20 as an "archaic" motor with "old" technology. I'm not trying to stir up the hornets nest, but other than everyone's experiences with OTHER ppl's motors and dyno sheets, this thread has turned into nothing more than a bunch of guys yelling at each other with idle threats and ridiculous insults. I figured most of you would try to jump my case, but that is just fine. Unless someone brings some actual automotive knowledge to this discussion, then this thread is nothing more than playground banter.
And yes, I plan to get a PFC...unfortunately I do not have the money for it yet. And yeah, my buddy in Charlotte is putting his RB20 back together right now. His last dyno was 387whp, I'm ready to see what he's putting down now that has some bigger injectors, PFC, and a few other goodies.Quote:
Originally Posted by EmotorsportsE
Haha, we are getting him soo frustrated.
You are the one who is talking about how you have extra cyl, so obviously its a better motor...right.
Also, upgrade your injectors and a rb20 still won't make shit power on that stock turbo.
You have a bigger turbo and injectors and still don't make the power my stock turbo'd sr makes.
Sorry to hear that.
Frustrated...I hardly think so. Maybe at your irrelevancy regarding this thread perhaps. Secondly, I have not made it a point at all during this discussion to point out the fact RBs have 2 extra cylinders did I? I never made the statement that RB's are better motors than SRs, so do not put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
As far as the RB20's not making power on the stock turbo, you may be correct. I have seen some pushing 240-250whp, which IMO is not bad. However the RB20's are limited by the capability of the stock turbo, which is not the fault of anyone doing the swap, but that's just how Nissan built the motor.
You're right, I don't have the power your magical SR makes...wait a tick, I don't even know what hp you are putting down unless you post it. And please, if you're arguments are going to follow the format you've been using on the rest of the thread (note...trash-talking), then please stop until you bring some substantial information. Not a bunch of kindergarden comments...grow up...please. Adults can actually have a conversation without using profanity and hurling insults, I know it's hard but give it a shot...you might feel a bit better about yourself.
That 305whp sentra, that 1439/2000 is talking about is mine.
And like you said, the poor turbo on the rb20 is the way nissan built the motor, if it was meant to be a motor nissan wanted to perfom why not go with a better turbo like SRs came with...I just think it is funny that a common upgrade for a rb20 is a z31 turbo which is just as old as an rb20.
As for you saying you have a friend pulling their rb25 to put in an rb20, makes sense, might as well put a motor in their car that will rev to something decent.
The rb20 motor is extremely outdated, honestly how many motors these days are cast iron? Not to mention you can find rb20s that are what almost 25 years old?
Man, honestly, it is nice to see that you are bringing facts and relevance into this thread instead of lame ass Skillzilla's posts. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders, unlike him.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb240det
Look, it's okay to admit you have the bastard child of Nissan engines. It's what you like, and that's cool. I will be the first to admit that I have the bastard child of Honda motors in my CRX. I don't care. It's what I like. I am not out to make the fastest thing in the world. If I was it wouldn't be a Honda. If we all had the same tastes, then everyone would be driving the same shit. That would be boring.
I will admit, though, that I know the factory RB20 turbo is a pile of garbage. I know that more power can be had with a turbo worth a shit. BUT, the comparison that you keep making is your RB20 240 to a KA 240. This is not the comparison that WE are making. WE are talking about an SR 240 vs. an RB20 240. Yes, you are making good points, but they are not relevent to this discussion.
But Halfbaked's SR20DET Sentra still > all. I was there when it made those numbers, and frankly I was suprised it did. But the fact remains that it did, which proves both the superiority of the SR20DET and the fact that he is a badass. Ford fleet van white paint and all. :goodjob:
I'm not even getting into the dyno debate, but the "accuracy" of any chassis dyno is nothing but opinion. Nothing has ever been proven as fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTLFED
Finally, a post that contains truth!!
AND THE LAWD SAID, THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!!
BE GONE RB20 DEMONS!
PRAISE THE LAWD! YER SOUL HAS BEEN LIFTED!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
If you are talking about the red-top RB20's then yes they are very outdated as opposed to the silver-top (R32 GTS-T). Again, I would like to know what you guys see on the 20's as "outdated"...no one has brought any sort of information on that. Half-baked, I am not trying to be a jerk so please do not take me as such, but I would like some conlusive information regarding this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
It has an iron block, thats outdated in itself.
No hard feelings mang, I don't think any less of you for defending your motor choice.
Me either. It's Skillzilla that sucks at life. This new guy actually seems pretty cool....even if he has an RB20. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
Sidenote: SHIT!
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HalfBaked again.
:(
"Man, honestly, it is nice to see that you are bringing facts and relevance into this thread instead of lame ass Skillzilla's posts. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders, unlike him.
Look, it's okay to admit you have the bastard child of Nissan engines. It's what you like, and that's cool. I will be the first to admit that I have the bastard child of Honda motors in my CRX. I don't care. It's what I like. I am not out to make the fastest thing in the world. If I was it wouldn't be a Honda. If we all had the same tastes, then everyone would be driving the same shit. That would be boring.
I will admit, though, that I know the factory RB20 turbo is a pile of garbage. I know that more power can be had with a turbo worth a shit. BUT, the comparison that you keep making is your RB20 240 to a KA 240. This is not the comparison that WE are making. WE are talking about an SR 240 vs. an RB20 240. Yes, you are making good points, but they are not relevent to this discussion.
But Halfbaked's SR20DET Sentra still > all. I was there when it made those numbers, and frankly I was suprised it did. But the fact remains that it did, which proves both the superiority of the SR20DET and the fact that he is a badass. Ford fleet van white paint and all.
I'm not even getting into the dyno debate, but the "accuracy" of any chassis dyno is nothing but opinion. Nothing has ever been proven as fact."
I thank you for your opinion. You are correct, if we all had the same swaps, then it would be a boring world indeed. However, everyone's conlusions on the RB20 as being a "pile of garbage" is inconclusive. Once again, no one has brought anything to this discussion that ACTUALLY proves your point. Other than having a slightly ill-designed turbo, please name one bit of technology on the RB20 that is outdated. I do not see the point of bashing the RB20's...yeah they are cheaper than SR's, but they are near as popular (though they are becoming more and more common). Everyone that I have come in contact with that owns the RB20 can honestly say that they are very tough motors.
Anyrate...I have to pack up and head back from home. I guess I'll see where this discussion has lead when I get back to my apartment. Thanks guys!
__________________
Iron blocks are outdated? If anything I would prefer to go with one vs. aluminum. Yes you save weight, but iron is more resilient than aluminum. I see your viewpoint, but do not agree with it. The RB's were cast iron all the way to the R34 GTR, which was discontinued in what...'00-'01? I hardly think it's outdated.Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfBaked
"This new guy actually seems pretty cool....even if he has an RB20."
LOL...hater.
I haven't seen too many aluminum block cars that are cracking blocks and shooting shit through them. I mean shit LS1s, LS2s, LS7s are all aluminum and seem to be doing just fine...Quote:
Originally Posted by rb240det
Just so you know, I've been driving an rb25 s13 daily for the past week. I've driven many sr s13s and honestly, you can feel a difference, the car it self just drives differently.
Notice the smiley face on my ACTUAL post? It was a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb240det
And "Hating" is bred from jealousy and/or envy. I do not envy you and I am not jealous of you. The "Nissan" I own most of the people in this thread don't know shit about besides the name. And I will be putting an SR in it.
So now you are comparing 2 litre to 2.5 to 2.6 to SR? Hmm....this debate is jumping all over the place.Quote:
Originally Posted by rb240det
And the first iron block that I thought was going to be brought up was the 2JZ. Amazing nobody did.
GO POST IN THE DATSUN FORUM!
Oh thats right there isn't one! :P See how much they suck!