7th gen civic discussion.

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Originally Posted by drmcivicsi

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao: are u sure all u can get is 150 170whp ? and why in the hell would u put higher compression pistons in a turbo car ?

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haha my mistake on the pistons, meant lower compression.
and for the stafford turbo kits whp go here:
http://www.truehonda.com/inventory.p...ctdetail&id=14

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Originally Posted by LS2ner

^^^ i agree with drmcivicsi. 7th gens are PoS's. They'are heavy as fuck, WEAK ASS engines, and not to mention the other 20 things wrong with them. In my dc2 LS with header/exhaust, intake and a short throw i pulled on a 7th gen EX with same mods. He even had a 1/2 car start and i beat him by like 1.5 or 2 cars. Not saying my shits fast or anything..but U cant even feel Vtec engage and they dont pull for SHIT. Swapping in a k20a3 is the only way those cars are even the least bit alright.

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you cant vtec because itys vtec-e which is in the sohc d17. since it doesnt have a second cam to switch two, it runs i believe 12 out of 16 valves until 2k rpms.

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Originally Posted by Nick

Are you are getting the EL mani from Dezod? I mean its nice and all, but its 1000 dollars. IMO not worth it for a mild turbo setup. I say skip the EL, get an HKS log style off ebay, drop the E-Manage, and get an EMS and a good tune. Should put u around 200+ with the right sized turbo.
And why are u going to run the return fuel setup? Andyman97 from 7th gen was putting down 250 without it. Also there are plenty of RSX's that are running WAAY more power than 250 with the returnless.

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no return fuel lines huh?

...until 2k RPMS? what would be the point of that? I dont believe you have to have two cams to do vtec...the 96-00 civic ex's werent vtech-e. If im not mistaken the vtec cam(s) have extra lobes with higher lift/durations, so you could do it in a sohc.

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Originally Posted by LS2ner

^^^ i agree with drmcivicsi. 7th gens are PoS's. They'are heavy as fuck, WEAK ASS engines, and not to mention the other 20 things wrong with them. In my dc2 LS with header/exhaust, intake and a short throw i pulled on a 7th gen EX with same mods. He even had a 1/2 car start and i beat him by like 1.5 or 2 cars. Not saying my shits fast or anything..but U cant even feel Vtec engage and they dont pull for SHIT. Swapping in a k20a3 is the only way those cars are even the least bit alright.

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My car isin't heavy as fuck. It weighs around ~2550 with me in it and no back seat. And your car is a DOHC 1.8 that has what 140 crank, and responds to NA mods better than the D17. Of course u are going to beat it.

here is the sohc vte explained.

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Originally Posted by caorndorff

Well this is it. VTEC for all SOHC cars explained. Before you even read this I want you all to know that all figures are form both 1996-2000 Honda tech book and 2001-2003 Honda Tech book. I have a few pages scanned in form the books to verify all figures.
To start there are three kinds of SOHC VTEC that Honda has ever produced. First there is standard SOHC VTEC this was found on the 1996-2000 civic EX (D16Y8), and the 1992-1995 EX and SI (D16Z6). This works the same as DOHC VTEC (only on the intake side no SOHC motor has VTEC on the exhaust side). By using three cam profiles and three rocker arms per cylinder, View diagrams. The second kind of SOHC VTEC is called three stage VTEC It is only found in the UK or Japan on a D15B. This kind isn’t really important to the USDM market, but if you want to read more on it follow this link. http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/3stagevtec.html The third and final kind of SOHC VTEC is VTEC-E This is found on the 1996-2000 civic HX and the 2001-2003 HX and (sorry to say it EX, yes that’s right are EX is a VTEC-E) VTEC-E is different because it only has two rocker arms and two lobes on the intake side (not Three) The way it works is from 0-4500 rpm one valve opens all the way while the other one opens less then when VTEC hits a Timing piston, spring and a Synchronizing piston all slide over locking the two together making the both open and close on the hotter cam profile. Here are the Cam specs for the D17A2 (look at diagrams 4 and 5)
D17A2 (EX)
Intake Exhaust (Remember the bigger the number the more it opens)
PRI 38.604 mm 38.784 mm
SEC 32.848 mm
So from 0-4500 rpm it is like having the equivalent of two valves opening at 35.726 (because one Is opening all the way at 38.604mm and the other not as much at 32.848mm) (this is still hotter then a lx with a 35.299 mm (Intake) and a 37.281mm (exhaust) after VTEC hits both rocker arms ride the 38.604mm profile that much better then the LX. This is the exact same way the HX works only the HX has slightly different cam specs.
D17A6 (HX)
Intake Exhaust
PRI 38.427 mm 38.784 mm
SEC 32.197 mm
D17A1 (DX/LX)
Intake Exhaust
PRI 35.299 mm 37.281 mm
They both have VTEC-E; the VTEC-E is for economy. But you say what my EX gets worse gas mileage then a DX LX and a HX Why? Simple, it’s all in the ECU. Honda dose some tricky things with there stock tuning. The EX has more fuel dropped in when in VTEC (Stock) then the HX. Infact the HX runs quite lean. Also the DX LX have a worse cam profile all the time allowing less air in so there for it needs less fuel. Not only this but the DX/LX, HX, and the EX all have different ignition Maps. Honda is so tricky with there stock ECU tuning that because of tuning alone that is why the Integra GSR makes all its power at high rpm’s, why did they do that you may ask. Because too many consumers complained about torque steer at low rpms for the first year of its production.
Now on to older SOHC VTEC. Standard SOHC VTEC is the same type you will find in a DOHC car (only without the exhaust side) how it works is there are three cam lobes and three rocker arms on the intake side. First from 0-4800 the outside rocker arms open and close by the outside lobes. Then when VTEC hits two Synchronizing pins slide over and lock onto the Mid Rocker. The Mid rocker follows the VTEC cam lobe.

Here are the specs for the D16Y8 cam
D16Y8
Intake Exhaust
PRI 36.778 38.008
MID 38.274
SEC 37.065

So the Y8 head is better until VTEC hits on are cars then are heads have a slight advantage.
Also another side note VTEC-E dose not use lost motion assemblies like every other kind of VTEC ever.

Here are the specs on what it takes to activate VTEC

1 Your MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor must read 0hg (aka 0 inches of vacuum). When it reads this it will send a 3volt signal to the ECU.

2. Your throttle has to be open 100% because your TPS sensor has to send a 4.5-volt signal to the ECU.

3. Your coolant temp has to be at running temp.

4. Vehicle speed has to be above 20mph.

5. You have to have 65-80 oil psi.

6. The engine must be running at a minimum of 4500 RPM

When all of this happens your ECU sends a 12-volt signal to your VTEC solenoid.

Also a common misbelieve is that the louder you VTEC is the better. Absolutely not! Last month I got to drive a 11.874 sec N/A H22 powered 93 civic hatch. This thing had kick ass VTEC wow. When it hit it was like a kick in the nuts. But there wasn’t a big noise change, but wow you really felt it especially to run an 11 sec at 5280 ft above sea level.

So this is it everything on SOHC VTEC. I did a lot of research (reading tech books) and a lot of talking to a lot of people. I know all the Specs here are absolutely correct because they all cam from Honda Tech books, I have included scanned copies so nobody can refute these claims. Now its Friday night so I’m going to wrap this up so I can go out, but I will add more this weekend.

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yea i think you guys should read about the info before you say it sucks. the vtec kicks in at 2500 WOT or 3k at any throttle position.
http://www.dezod.com/pd_dezod_motorsports.cfm
this is the result on a AUTO d17 at 8 psi. idk what they used to tune it.
but yes the d motor sucks till you use forced induction.

same descriptiopn as the site i posted....
yours: Dyno Results: Our AUTO transmission 2001 Civic EX made 90 WHP & 84 WTQ prior to turbo, and after the addition of our turbo kit made 146.7 WHP & 121.9 FT/LBS of WTQ @ circa 8 PSI w/ a T3 Super 60 turbo, on 93 Octane (no additives or sprays & running a fully functional catalytic converter on the down pipe) on a 76 degree day in Buffalo, NY. That is a 63% power increase, and a 45% torque increase at the wheels on a mere 8 PSI on a stock motor, automatic transmission vehicle. 5 Speed vehicles can expect an additional 15-25% more power.

mine:Dyno Results: Our AUTO transmission 2001 Civic EX made 90 WHP & 84 WTQ prior to turbo, and after the addition of our turbo kit made 146.7 WHP & 121.9 FT/LBS of WTQ @ circa 8 PSI w/ a T3 Super 60 turbo, on 93 Octane. With a Manual we should put down 176 WHP and 140WTQ (no additives or sprays & running a fully functional catalytic converter on the down pipe) on a 76 degree day in Buffalo, NY. That is a 63% power increase, and a 45% torque increase at the wheels on a mere 8 PSI on a stock motor, automatic transmission vehicle.

yeah it's a 63% increase, but its only 145 horses.

yea but my point was it was an auto. 15 to 25 percent difference is like 160-170 to the wheels. idk what fuel system they used though. and the exhaust is stock. and the catylitic converter gets clogged on d17s if its stock. you have to have a high flow cat or downpipe to not have a bottleneck effect. so a full aftermarket exhaust will help with the turbo setup.
a stock type S is 170 to the wheels. and the em2 weighs less than the DC5. so idk. id be satisfied with around 170-180 with like 9 psi.

i think if you own a 7thgen you dont hate it. there are the same opertunities you get with most other vic engines except its alot more tame. and there is always the ability of swapping a k20-24 in.

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Originally Posted by oi2325

i think if you own a 7thgen you dont hate it. there are the same opertunities you get with most other vic engines except its alot more tame. and there is always the ability of swapping a k20-24 in.

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NO, I own one and I hate it.

The thing that i hate MOST about my car is that every time I see one on the street a girl is behind the wheel.

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Originally Posted by Nick

The thing that i hate MOST about my car is that every time I see one on the street a girl is behind the wheel.

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LOL, I haven't really noticed that too much. I mean the car is nice for what it is but there are SO many things that could have been done better or at least matched the earlier years. If it wasn't for me working towards a house and the gas mileage I would have sold it already.

i have a question i have a 2004 civic ex v-tech and no doubt to say it is pretty slow to me. but i was contemplating about turboing the D17a but i have been told from alot of people that it is not a good idea because the engine cant hold more than 5psi without a bunch of mods please send a message back if you have any valuble information thanks.

[QUOTE=Civic88]i have a question i have a 2004 civic ex v-tech QUOTE]

you should take that v-tech back to walmart and have real vtec hooked up. v-tech is a cordless phone. VTEC is Variable valve Timing and lift Electronic Control, and thats what your civic has. first, sell the civic and buy an either buy an older civic or a new civic Si. The car you h ave now is a money pit and you will always be disappointed. I know... I had one. I did everything there was to do to the car short of a K20A2 swap, and it still sucked donkey balls.... dont waste the money. sell the civic, take the $3500 you were going to spend on the turbo kit, and buy a B-series swapped 96-00 civic coupe.

they look ugly just my opinion