BOOST VS N/A DEBATE: ROUND 1

[Stormhammer]

it takes more to go N/A - like 1439 said, you'd have to do careful and exacting measurements because you are generally dealing with the block - you can do some simple bolt ons, but to make serious HP you have to do some serious engineering on N/A

with FI, hell... - you do a few things the same as N/A ( in some upgrade aspects in general ) - and then you just put on a big ass turbo and hellloooo

I will say this, and its generally known, N/A has a smoother power band than FI


but if you want some examples of diff. engineering in regards to FI, look at mine and 1439's car

we both have Super16G's ( or Big16G's - 1mm difference ) - and if I recall he boosts @ 18psi - but he's at full boost at 5k, whereas mine is fully spooled by 3500 @ 18psi - and its in that that engineering prowess I believe would come in handy

[1439/2000]

it takes more to go N/A - like 1439 said, you'd have to do careful and exacting measurements because you are generally dealing with the block - you can do some simple bolt ons, but to make serious HP you have to do some serious engineering on N/A

with FI, hell... - you do a few things the same as N/A ( in some upgrade aspects in general ) - and then you just put on a big ass turbo and hellloooo

I will say this, and its generally known, N/A has a smoother power band than FI


but if you want some examples of diff. engineering in regards to FI, look at mine and 1439's car

we both have Super16G's ( or Big16G's - 1mm difference ) - and if I recall he boosts @ 18psi - but he's at full boost at 5k, whereas mine is fully spooled by 3500 @ 18psi - and its in that that engineering prowess I believe would come in handy

Actually I have a b16g with a 20g wheel make 20-21 psi and hit full at like 3800 -4000. Still too late but spools up fast with a brake boost or launch.

[Stormhammer]

Actually I have a b16g with a 20g wheel make 20-21 psi and hit full at like 3800 -4000. Still too late but spools up fast with a brake boost or launch.

boost lag is a bitch lol - still, its always nice to be peeling out all the way into 3rd gear @ 6k

[1439/2000]

boost lag is a bitch lol - still, its always nice to be peeling out all the way into 3rd gear @ 6k

I wouldnt know with this car. This is the only car I've had lag in in bad enough.

I do wheel hop sometimes though. At night when the air is dense I can spin half of 1st.

[Stormhammer]

I wouldnt know with this car. This is the only car I've had lag in in bad enough.

I do wheel hop sometimes though. At night when the air is dense I can spin half of 1st.

eh, I had crappy tires - they're hard so they spin easily lol - althought for a 16G I'd say around 3500 is pretty average - its why I have a BOV bypass as my "anti-lag" plus as weird as it sounds but I dont like hearing a psssshtt everytime I let off the gas (esp in traffic, lame I know) but its beautiful for sleepiness

[1439/2000]

eh, I had crappy tires - they're hard so they spin easily lol - althought for a 16G I'd say around 3500 is pretty average - its why I have a BOV bypass as my "anti-lag" plus as weird as it sounds but I dont like hearing a psssshtt everytime I let off the gas (esp in traffic, lame I know) but its beautiful for sleepiness

My bov is quiet, HKS without an insert vented but I have an open wastegate dump. Its loud.

[Vteckidd]

Its all about preference. there are ALOT of factors not be accounted for either.

i will Say that any turbo car making even 50more whp more than an NA car wont stand a chance.

IE My 237whp/160TQ CRX vs lets say, GGPIS3s Lexus. He baselines 288whp/270TQ on our dyno without nitrous. in that video of me vs him off bottle you can see me slowly pull him an he was making WAY more power. Why did i win?

1) I weigh 1800lbs vs his 3000+lbs
2) he redlines at 6500rpms, i redline at 9500rpm

I have much more useuable powerband, an much logner gearing. remember, no matter what happens in a highway pull, the LONGer you can stay in gear the faster you will be. YOU LOSE POWER AN POSITION IN A RACE WHEN YOU SHIFT, no way around it.

What it comes down to is how the car is setup. My car is a TIN CAN that i bet NONE of you would drive everyday, its as bare bones as it gets, NO ac, NO interior, no tar on the floorbaord, no firewall mat,no stereo, no nothing. Dan can cruise with the AC an PS on an full interior with 3 bitches in the back with the sunroof open blasting his MP3 player.

Usually, for an NA car to be fast you got to be LIGHT no matter what. no one builds an NA accord, shit is heavy, you have to built a chassis that supports the power.

I get customers ALL THE TIME that come in with SOHC 92-95 civics or EKs. They want to do a swap. the first thing i ask them is "why do you want to swap?" their response is usuall "cause i want to be faster". i ask them their ultimate goal an most of the time the answer is they want a fast street car, not a race car, not a lot of maintanence for the most affordable price.

i reccomend to them to turbo their D series. They could do a GSR swap for $4000 an make 155whp/125TQ OR they could turbo their D series and make 185whp/175TQ with our kit for $3500.

which car is faster? the TURBO D all day long.

I always reccomend TURBO to the heavier chassis guys like 99-00 Civic Sis, DC2s, etc. Its just hard for them to be THAT much faster with an all motor build because they are already handicapped by their weight. the last thin i want is someone spending their hard earned money an driving away thinking "man, this really isnt that much faster". i want them to come back with a smile on their face saying "holy shit its way faster than i ever thought." usually the turbo does that more than the NA.

Im an all motor fanatic, its what i like. to me, its not something that everyone does or CAN do. Its an art, you dont make the power in an NA car, you cant simply just "up the boost". an there is no better feeling than beating up on a turbo car or a V8 with a 4 cylinder that has no power adder.

But as i said, it costs ALOT an the HP/Dollar sucks so its not for everyone.

[BABY J]

... i will Say that any turbo car making even 50more whp more than an NA car wont stand a chance.

Great point Mike... and to amplify this I will quote MYSELF from another old thread:

... the PTI turbo is pretty popular right now --> that's getting the Spec V guys around 230 wheel. I KILL those guys at the track and on the street though... BIG time, not even close. What side of town you on? We can "take a ride" in my Spec... I will show you (using the AFC) what just a 5% increase in throttle postion feels like on a 250whp N/A beast... at uhhh, we'll say 80mph... or 100mph. And then we can get my boy's classic SEr (boosted jdm sr20, 20psi) and see what a turbo car does at 10% throttle increase at the MPH of your choice!! I think you would guess DEAD wrong on what your ass-dyno would suspect as the best bang. Simply stated, I have waxed a LOT of turbo cars... and if the fun wasn't limited to 7800rpms (PISTON SPEED IS THE BIGGEST PROB WITH THE QR25... IT'S INSANE... MAKES FOR TONS-O-TORQUE THOUGH AND A NICE BROAD POWER BAND)...

... But as i said, it costs ALOT an the HP/Dollar sucks so its not for everyone.

True, in terms of "bang for the buck" hell yeah go FI. It's gonna almost always "harder" and take more engineering to be fast/faster NA.