standalone and piggyback discussion

[O3EP]

A factory ecu is considered a standalone engine management unit since it alone is managing your engine whether or not it can control individual cylinders or not is irrelevant. The only entity controlling your engine is that computer. when you buy an aem pems you are buying a different stand alone computer to replace the factory computer that currently handles all engine management parameters. When you buy KPro you are buying a computer that wholly on its own will manage your engine. There is a board inside the KPro that allows the user to interface directly with the code that manages said engine and software on a PC that interprets that code and allows it to be programmed. Sure the AEM is more versatile in terms of sensor inputs and such, but it's function is the same; to manage your engine on it's own. Yes the KPro needs a factory ecu to function because it is a factory ecu that is programmable. Nowhere is it stipulated that a standalone engine management system must be an aftermarket piece of hardware.

[Vteckidd]

SWEET, all hondas have standalone Engine managment now!

*sarcasm*

look we are all splitting hairs. In LAYMANS terms, last try:

5 years ago there were 2 forms of Engine Management, piggybacks, and FULL STANDALONE.

Piggybacks back then were:
Greddy Emanage
Apex VAFC
Apex SAFC

Full Standalone:
Motec
AEM EMS
DTA

Now, with the proliferation of ecu chipping, romulators etc, tuning has become MUCH easier. Hondata came out with the S100 , then S200. The s200 used a Blue Box that encrypted their ECU coding to allow ONLY hondata authorized dealers to tune the system. Then came Uberdata and Crome, BRE, Turbo Edit etc. Built on the same parameters except it was OPEN SOURCE aka FREE to download an interface.

Now Hondata has the KPRO and the S300 that dont require you to be an authorized dealer to tune their system. However, thats the ONLY thing that changed. It still requires that you use a FACTORY ecu. Their system is basically a "hack" that overrides CERTAIN ECU procedures to allow you to change vtec, air/ ignition, fuel curves. They allow launch control, boost tables, etc. ALMOST the same thing a standalone would let you do, but it still requires that you use HONDAs code system, and HONDAs ECU.

AEM EMS , DTA, MOTEC, etc use THEIR OWN CODE. They do not modify their CODE to work with your FACTORY ECU. Which is why a STANDALONE allows so much more functionality than a PIGGYBACK. They can do whatever you tell them. Piggybacks MUST stay within the factory CODE. Which is why a KPRO cannot run carburators, and why S200 cannot run Coil packs on the old B series engines, EMS can.

In closing, if you want to be TECHNICAL, KPRO is a PIGGYBACK, AEM is a full standalone

[speedminded]

SWEET, all hondas have standalone Engine managment now!

*sarcasm*

look we are all splitting hairs. In LAYMANS terms, last try:

5 years ago there were 2 forms of Engine Management, piggybacks, and FULL STANDALONE.

Piggybacks back then were:
Greddy Emanage
Apex VAFC
Apex SAFC

Full Standalone:
Motec
AEM EMS
DTA

Now, with the proliferation of ecu chipping, romulators etc, tuning has become MUCH easier. Hondata came out with the S100 , then S200. The s200 used a Blue Box that encrypted their ECU coding to allow ONLY hondata authorized dealers to tune the system. Then came Uberdata and Crome, BRE, Turbo Edit etc. Built on the same parameters except it was OPEN SOURCE aka FREE to download an interface.

Now Hondata has the KPRO and the S300 that dont require you to be an authorized dealer to tune their system. However, thats the ONLY thing that changed. It still requires that you use a FACTORY ecu. Their system is basically a "hack" that overrides CERTAIN ECU procedures to allow you to change vtec, air/ ignition, fuel curves. They allow launch control, boost tables, etc. ALMOST the same thing a standalone would let you do, but it still requires that you use HONDAs code system, and HONDAs ECU.

AEM EMS , DTA, MOTEC, etc use THEIR OWN CODE. They do not modify their CODE to work with your FACTORY ECU. Which is why a STANDALONE allows so much more functionality than a PIGGYBACK. They can do whatever you tell them. Piggybacks MUST stay within the factory CODE. Which is why a KPRO cannot run carburators, and why S200 cannot run Coil packs on the old B series engines, EMS can.

In closing, if you want to be TECHNICAL, KPRO is a PIGGYBACK, AEM is a full standalone

ding ding ding, we have a winner.

[imbosile]

ding ding ding, we have a winner.

yep

[Hondata1]

You need to be very careful not to confuse your opinion with facts.

Which is why a KPRO cannot run carburators,

Wrong. I have tuned such a system.

Their system is basically a "hack" that overrides CERTAIN ECU procedures to allow you to change vtec, air/ ignition, fuel curves.

Wrong again.

Hondata adds a substantial amount of new code to add functions and features that did not exist in the stock ECU. For example.

- Boost
- Boost by gear
- Nitrous control
- USB datalogging
- etc

and why S200 cannot run Coil packs on the old B series engines

One of the disadvantages of using the factory computer is you are limited to the inputs and outputs Honda provide, although you can alter their function. If you need coil packs on a B series then the S300 will not be suitable. You would need to purchase a standalone like:

- Motec
- AEM EMS
- DTA
- K-Pro

Yes - the K-Pro could run a B series engine with coil packs.

Just like the S200 systems have been used to drive VW golfs and Toyota AE86 drift cars.

In closing, if you want to be TECHNICAL, KPRO is a PIGGYBACK

Wrong yet again.

The piggybacks you quote:

- Greddy Emanage
- Apex VAFC
- Apex SAFC

All have these aspects in common common: They run a microprocessor separate from the ecu's microprocessor to take over command and control of several of the sensors / injectors/ ignition etc. Typically wires are cut or intercepted in a piggybacked system.

This was very clearly posted earlier in this thread. Please read it.

The piggybacks you list cannot run the car by themselves.

The K-Pro and S300/200 can. They read the sensor inputs and drive the outputs directly, with custom written code, just like a standalone. And they can drive engines other than what they were designed for.