i was just wondering what i would be better for the most power.... doing a mini me with my y7 block or and a y8 head or buying a whole y8 motor?
mini me or a whole y8?
i was just wondering what i would be better for the most power.... doing a mini me with my y7 block or and a y8 head or buying a whole y8 motor?
buy a b18 unless you wanna go SOHC which is kool i rolled like that forever i would buy the whole motor ifv i was going to do the vtec thing
yea.... i am going with the SOHC.. it will be fun... but thanks for the i info
Mini-me will be more cost effective.
yea.... i am just having some trouble puttung the head i have together, lol. The guy i got it from had it apart.
I just hope that one of these days you can get something done instead of talking about it. lol. I think you've gotten all the advise you need to decide what you want to do. Now just make a damn decision and stick to it till it's done. You will never be satisfied with what you are wanting to do. I'm getting that from all of the damn threads you've started and wanting people to tell you what to do. Either build the mini-me and be happy or keep saving and get a b-series swap. I think it's time to quit talking and get it done. I'm not trying to be an ass man, believe that, but if you don't decide on what to do and get it done you will be forever wishy washy when it comes to what you want to do.
well...... good job at not trying to be an ass...... i am just saking questions so i can find things out. i know that i am staying with a SOHC and i am probibly going with a mini me. I have a y8 head sitting here and i just bought a turbo last friday. Saying that i think i am on my way to getting the HP i am looking for.
Good job, now get it installed do some tuning and have fun with it.
the word d series scares me just a little bit.
I say go b series. You will never regret it.
mini me swap is not worth the time, money or energy or thoughts at all.
been there done that twice. I learnd the hardway.
I wasted alot of money, then ended up having more problems then i began with, ontop of that, i was still slow as shit.
FUCK D SERIES.
go k all the way or
go for a b swap
obd1 ls's rock
FYI a d16y7 and y8 block are no different! nothing is diff at all.
they run the same, have teh same everything.
Onlything that is different is the head.
Ive done my research.
seriously, dont do the swap, its a pain in the ass. Mainly because I did kind of a swap / mini swap/
i like d-series.... what was so hard about your mini me swap?
Originally Posted by 92587
Back up your statements with facts.
FACT: b series is way better.
untill you OWN a b series swapped car, or 94+ integra with a strong motor, you will never apriciate b series.
trust me. i used to like d series untill i had a swapped hatch and an ls teg.
ever since my ls teg, ill never go d series again
i could bark tires shifting into 4th
^Must have been some shitty ass tires.
I've already been through the price/hp cost of a boosted D VS. a B swap already. I don't feel like repeating myself..... Long story short... A boosted D will always beat a B swap.
i owned a boosted ek with my ls baby
96 ls I/H/E/gsr clutch, gsr flywheel, skunk2 short throw, ngk plugs, ngk wires, high flow cat.
OWND a boosted EK.
also had good tires. i know how to shift extremely quick and also i know a few tricks of the trade
^Must be driver error.... What is the setup on the EK?? A boosted D with 180-200whp and 180-200wtq will not lose to an ls/bolt ons with ???whp/???wtq...... Unless of course, driver error.
i agree.
1994 s10(daily grind)
1989 civic si(project)
My last civic with a modified b16 totally killed many a boosted d-series. One of which blew up trying to beat me. I agree a boosted D series can beat a b-series but only doing it built or with high boost that only a built motor can handle. Save your money and get a b-series. You'll have much more room to grow down the road in the horsey department.
Untill the little piece of shit blows....and the B series would be STOCK
Save for the B you'll love it. To get decent HP with a D series it has to be Built end of story. Why boost a D... it cant be for hp unless 170-200hp is actually high performance to you. I mean a stock boosted D= b18c gsr with a intake and exhaust in terms of power lol. I mean boosted D is actually good if you wanna "sound" fast with ur spool and bov but thats about it.
BTW....would you rather pop the hood with a B-series ot a puny ass Sohc under the hood.
"Boosted D is like a skinny guy in a muscle shirt".....Fatboy Sanchez
Last edited by KingElli; 09-12-2005 at 09:30 PM.
I hate to tell ya, but a b18c w/ intake and exhaust isnt anywhere near 200 whp and being fast isnt all about horsepower. The torque (180-200) that you will get out of the turbo is a hell of lot better than just swapping in a b series. Thats what will make it so freaken fun to drive.
I also love it when people say they have beaten boosted d's w/ ease, but i bet most of the time they have no idea what the setup is, what kind of tune, or how much power its making. I mean, you could go throw a greddy kit on and be boosted and only making like 140 whp (maybe less)
Not bashing the b series or anything because they are awesome motors, but there is nothing wrong w/ d series either. I mean, u can run 13s w/ about 200 whp in a civic, so its not that slow. I dont see why you say its goin to blow up either. As long as you have it tuned right, itll last. I know people who have been boosted for multiple years w/ no problems at all. And you will be faster than if you just dropped in a b series, which would then cost even more to boost or watever, and b series stuff tends to be a good bit more expensive than d series stuff. I mean, ok, u screw up and blow your d series motor, hmm, u can get another one for like $400. Try finding a b series for that price if you screw it up.
just thought id add my
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^^^^ true
a properly built boosted D series> Stock B series swap
sorry, i dont care if ytou have bolt ons with your LS motor or your GSR. you guys are bench racing. If a boosted D series makes 180-200whp, its making AT LEAST 160-170TQ. thats enough for them to run 13s. how many stock B series motors run 13s?
If you are on a budget, Boosted D series is cool
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I can make a N/A b series go faster than a d for the same or less money. Period. And I have lots of room to grow as where the d must be fully built to pull out any more power. Turbo kit and its acessory trimmings for a D $3000-$5000 plus Labor $1500-$2500. Dude. I can set up a sweet B series for that. B18c bored to a 2.0, type R pistons, head work, type R cams etc and still spend Less Money and be as fast or faster with room to grow. D stands for DEAD END even on a budget. But don't get me wrong, I LOVE my d-series! My daily driver gets 40mpg! Wooo hooo!
If your too tight for money, H series is also a great alternative. You just pay more for the install but less for the motor. Or even a LS/Vtec if you find someone who can build them right.
Its all good. D series can still rock. I just see things in the long term. A boosted D just doesn't have the investment potential for me. I'd rather wait and save my money for something better.
Last edited by djmaddmartin; 09-14-2005 at 07:42 AM.
A boosted D series with $3500 in it will make 200whp and be reliable and will beat almost any NA b series in the state of GA. sorry man, your wrong. We have one up here at the shop (ScttyDB411) and his is NONVTEC and makes 203whp and 196TQ and has been running for 3 years. Most NA cars in GA make 180 if they are LUCKY. the faster ones, are lucky to break 200whp locally. i see lots of claims of all motor power, but my dyno speaks for itself. we have seen 2 RSX all motor cars make over 200WHP and only 1 1.8l B series make over 200whp in the 2 years we have been open. Its not as easy as some think.
Yes i agree, B series has much more potential, but , hell the K>B. im just talking from a BUDGET stand point. if someone comes to me with a Civic that is stock and they have $3000-5000 to spend, and they want to go fast, i would reccomend B series all day, but to some people, its a huge investment for not a lotr of power. After they buy a swap, and pay for labor, they will ahve a 155whp GSR. when they can spend the same money, and have a boosted D series and have money left over, and make close to 190whp maybe more if its a SOHC VTEC. i give them both options, then they have to figure out what they want to do later on down the road.And I have lots of room to grow as where the d must be fully built to pull out any more power.
YOu can buy intercooler-less kits from Greddy for $1200 all day long on Ebay and from Nopi. We do CUSTOM built full turbo kits that come with injectors and Uberdata for tuning with a brand new turbo INSTALLED for $3500 out the door. thats our top of the line kit, and i gurantee 80-100whp increase over stock. for $3500 you can barely buy a GSR swap. let alone get it installed, let alone go all motor with it.Turbo kit and its acessory trimmings for a D $3000-$5000 plus Labor $1500-$2500.
couple things:Dude. I can set up a sweet B series for that. B18c bored to a 2.0, type R pistons, head work, type R cams etc and still spend Less Money and be as fast or faster with room to grow. D stands for DEAD END even on a budget.
1) you cannot BORE B18C block to 2.0L. you have to sleeve it, which costs $1000.
2) IF you bore it out to 2.0l that is 84mm. STD B SERIES bore is 81mm. There are no ITR Pistons in a 84mm application. they would have to be custom made. The biggest bore ITR pistons come in is 82mm from Topline. the only 84mm block is the B20, and they have low compression pistons. most people when they go 84mm or 2.0L they go forged internals.
3) Head work is expensive, and no once locally can do it. expect a minimum of $1000 for a stage 1 job with a valve job, deshrouding the chambers, valves, and surface.
4) ALL MOTOR costs ALOT MORE than Turbo. in your scenario, you would have to locate a block and head and then do work to it. heres what it would cost:
GSR Head:$500
GSR Block:$600 (usually assembled)
ITR Pistons:$180
Machine WOrk:$350
Ported Head:$1000
ITR Cams:$300
Vavletrain:$250
HeadGasket:$65
Lower Gasket KIT:$55
Upper Gasket Kit:$190
Header:$250 (FOR A CHEAP ONE) $650 for a good one
Intake Manifold:$150
Cam Gears:$175
Head Studs:$105
Rod Bolts:$55
Bearings:$105
This doesnt include a tranny ($500-700) or a clutch and flywheel ($500-700). this also doesnt factor in a new timing belt and water pump which every build should get no matter what. this is still using the old OIL pump($100) as well, which i always replace. this is a mild setup, one that i have built before. i have a very similar motor posted in the all motor forum that i built that was similar to this one. Remember this includes you doing all the work, that means you assembling the motor, checking ring gap, plastigauging bearing clearance to make sure they are within .0005-.002 , and doing the swap. so there is no labor factored in.
This setup (GSR block, Ported head, ITR Pistons, Mild CAms, and decent header) would make 175-185whp, 190whp at the most.
TOTAL: $4330 for the LONGBLOCK ,PARTS ONLY
My motor, which is a 2.0l 12:1 compression motor, with ported head, Prototype cams, Race header , blahblahblah and me getting AWESOME deals form people i know in the industry or people that just wanted to help me out is approaching $8000. i hope to make 230-240whp. with $8000 i could haev built a 450-550whp motor.
All motor is more of a challenge than turbo , thats why i like it. anyone IMO can build a 500whp turbo motor, not anyone can builda 200whp GSR or 230whp LSVTEC. that takes more skill IMO. a 230whp All motor car in a light chassis (CRX) can run 11s. not many turbo cars with 250who can run 11s.
i agree, D series > B series when it comes to gas mileage.But don't get me wrong, I LOVE my d-series! My daily driver gets 40mpg! Wooo hooo!
my
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^^^ GREAT POST!!!
out of all the things i have read the one thing i have seen from your coments is that with the power/money. going with a D is better.... like other people have said before and i agree 100% is that if i blow my D i can go buy another one for less than 800 bucks and slap my mods back on that motor and i will be good to go again.
And one question for you also... the guy that is non-vtec.. What all is dont to his because origionaly i was wanting to stay non-vtec just for fun.
check out this site
http://www.turbod16.com/viewtopic.ph...&highlight=13g
it has his dyno sheet and what his setup is on it, plus, its an awesome website to learn some stuff from
Looking for a shop that does quality work??
Mainstream Performance is the place to go
"Don't make excuses...make power"
List your part break down for the D series build. I checked out the kit on ebay and its missing a bunch of stuff. Show me the exact breakdown of your d-series out the door. Just curious. May make you some business too. Sounds like a killer deal. I can get a gsr full swap for $1500 by the way -USDM. $1500 for a turbo kit. $500 for clutch/flywheel. $4000-4500 out the door making 300+hp. My boy in Florida payed $4300 out the door for his. I of course am going to spend way more than that. But I'm aiming for a bit more power potential.
A boosted D series with $3500 in it will make 200whp and be reliable and will beat almost any NA b series in the state of GA. sorry man, your wrong. We have one up here at the shop (ScttyDB411) and his is NONVTEC and makes 203whp and 196TQ and has been running for 3 years. Most NA cars in GA make 180 if they are LUCKY. the faster ones, are lucky to break 200whp locally. i see lots of claims of all motor power, but my dyno speaks for itself. we have seen 2 RSX all motor cars make over 200WHP and only 1 1.8l B series make over 200whp in the 2 years we have been open. Its not as easy as some think.
Yes i agree, B series has much more potential, but , hell the K>B. im just talking from a BUDGET stand point. if someone comes to me with a Civic that is stock and they have $3000-5000 to spend, and they want to go fast, i would reccomend B series all day, but to some people, its a huge investment for not a lotr of power. After they buy a swap, and pay for labor, they will ahve a 155whp GSR. when they can spend the same money, and have a boosted D series and have money left over, and make close to 190whp maybe more if its a SOHC VTEC. i give them both options, then they have to figure out what they want to do later on down the road.
YOu can buy intercooler-less kits from Greddy for $1200 all day long on Ebay and from Nopi. We do CUSTOM built full turbo kits that come with injectors and Uberdata for tuning with a brand new turbo INSTALLED for $3500 out the door. thats our top of the line kit, and i gurantee 80-100whp increase over stock. for $3500 you can barely buy a GSR swap. let alone get it installed, let alone go all motor with it.
couple things:
1) you cannot BORE B18C block to 2.0L. you have to sleeve it, which costs $1000.
2) IF you bore it out to 2.0l that is 84mm. STD B SERIES bore is 81mm. There are no ITR Pistons in a 84mm application. they would have to be custom made. The biggest bore ITR pistons come in is 82mm from Topline. the only 84mm block is the B20, and they have low compression pistons. most people when they go 84mm or 2.0L they go forged internals.
3) Head work is expensive, and no once locally can do it. expect a minimum of $1000 for a stage 1 job with a valve job, deshrouding the chambers, valves, and surface.
4) ALL MOTOR costs ALOT MORE than Turbo. in your scenario, you would have to locate a block and head and then do work to it. heres what it would cost:
GSR Head:$500
GSR Block:$600 (usually assembled)
ITR Pistons:$180
Machine WOrk:$350
Ported Head:$1000
ITR Cams:$300
Vavletrain:$250
HeadGasket:$65
Lower Gasket KIT:$55
Upper Gasket Kit:$190
Header:$250 (FOR A CHEAP ONE) $650 for a good one
Intake Manifold:$150
Cam Gears:$175
Head Studs:$105
Rod Bolts:$55
Bearings:$105
This doesnt include a tranny ($500-700) or a clutch and flywheel ($500-700). this also doesnt factor in a new timing belt and water pump which every build should get no matter what. this is still using the old OIL pump($100) as well, which i always replace. this is a mild setup, one that i have built before. i have a very similar motor posted in the all motor forum that i built that was similar to this one. Remember this includes you doing all the work, that means you assembling the motor, checking ring gap, plastigauging bearing clearance to make sure they are within .0005-.002 , and doing the swap. so there is no labor factored in.
This setup (GSR block, Ported head, ITR Pistons, Mild CAms, and decent header) would make 175-185whp, 190whp at the most.
TOTAL: $4330 for the LONGBLOCK ,PARTS ONLY
My motor, which is a 2.0l 12:1 compression motor, with ported head, Prototype cams, Race header , blahblahblah and me getting AWESOME deals form people i know in the industry or people that just wanted to help me out is approaching $8000. i hope to make 230-240whp. with $8000 i could haev built a 450-550whp motor.
All motor is more of a challenge than turbo , thats why i like it. anyone IMO can build a 500whp turbo motor, not anyone can builda 200whp GSR or 230whp LSVTEC. that takes more skill IMO. a 230whp All motor car in a light chassis (CRX) can run 11s. not many turbo cars with 250who can run 11s.
i agree, D series > B series when it comes to gas mileage.
my
Last edited by djmaddmartin; 09-14-2005 at 07:51 PM.
FUCK HONDA put a SR20 OR RB26DETT
lol
well, i have seen a NSX motor in, if i remember right, an ek hatch
that was pretty crazy
Looking for a shop that does quality work??
Mainstream Performance is the place to go
"Don't make excuses...make power"
i think u mean a CRX
It was definitly a nsx motor. It was in a magazine a long time ago, i doubt i could find it now tho. It was drag car i think, but still, they fit that thing in there.
Looking for a shop that does quality work??
Mainstream Performance is the place to go
"Don't make excuses...make power"
LOL You Nissan guys. Too funny. You wanna do a sr20 in honda? How's about a LS-1 in a S14! Now that would be a swwweeett swwwaaap!FUCK HONDA put a SR20 OR RB26DETT
lol
Mahdavi has a CRX w/ an NSX engine mid mounted in it.
1) Show me a GSR swap for $1500 and ill show you a stolen swap
2) No $1500 turbo kit will make 300whp on a stock GSR. if you build some junk DIY kit, maybe , but i doubt it. the injectors and intake manifold needed to flow 300whp cost $500 alone. The turbo will run $500. break down YOUR B series 300whp turbo kit for me please, cause if you can do it for $1500 im in the wrong business.
D series Turbo Kit $3500
Turbonetics Turbo T3-Super60 1 year warranty-$700
Custom Log manifold (Drag Style) Hold up to 300whp-$250
Turbonetics EVO Wastegate-$200
BOV- GREDDY/HKS with Flange-$230
Front Mount Intercooler (custom) -$225
Down Pipe with Flex-$150 (includes O2)
InterCooler Piping with Couplers-$300
DSM 450CC Injectors-$80
OBD1 ECU with Uberdata $180
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump-$90
Conversion Harness-$80
Labor - $1000
This is right at $3500 and includes fuel management and a setup that is capible of 250whp (300 w/550cc inj). This is a similar setup that we have put on about 6 b-series. on a D series it can make 220whp (VTEC) non VTEC (200whp) easily.
Also, a 300whp stock GSR is not as easy as it seems. A bolt on Drag kit or Rev Hard will only make about 250-275whp. I don't care what people on H-T say, bring it to Atlanta and we will see. You will have to have at least 550cc injectors, and 3in exhaust.
Finally, about the Civic with the NSX motor. This was a FWD drag car that was in a magazine about 3-4 years ago. It was a EK hb that was chop top. D16civic was right.
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1) Show me a GSR swap for $1500 and ill show you a stolen swap
2) No $1500 turbo kit will make 300whp on a stock GSR. if you build some junk DIY kit, maybe , but i doubt it. the injectors and intake manifold needed to flow 300whp cost $500 alone. The turbo will run $500. break down YOUR B series 300whp turbo kit for me please, cause if you can do it for $1500 im in the wrong business.
D series Turbo Kit $3500
Turbonetics Turbo T3-Super60 1 year warranty-$700
Custom Log manifold (Drag Style) Hold up to 300whp-$250
Turbonetics EVO Wastegate-$200
BOV- GREDDY/HKS with Flange-$230
Front Mount Intercooler (custom) -$225
Down Pipe with Flex-$150 (includes O2)
InterCooler Piping with Couplers-$300
DSM 450CC Injectors-$80
OBD1 ECU with Uberdata $180
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump-$90
Conversion Harness-$80
Labor - $1000
This is right at $3500 and includes fuel management and a setup that is capible of 250whp (300 w/550cc inj). This is a similar setup that we have put on about 6 b-series. on a D series it can make 220whp (VTEC) non VTEC (200whp) easily.
Also, a 300whp stock GSR is not as easy as it seems. A bolt on Drag kit or Rev Hard will only make about 250-275whp. I don't care what people on H-T say, bring it to Atlanta and we will see. You will have to have at least 550cc injectors, and 3in exhaust.
Finally, about the Civic with the NSX motor. This was a FWD drag car that was in a magazine about 3-4 years ago. It was a EK hb that was chop top. D16civic was right.
hey have u seen the new super street mag that has thw worlds fastest all motor RSX in it? it ran like a 9 sec in the 1/4
yeah, thats Skunk2s car. it only makes 330whp. Also, the guy that is engine dynoing my motor, talks to Hsu alot, they are good friends. FYI: David HSU= Owner Skunk2
David let me use one of the only sets of the new Pro3s camshafts in my engine in the country.
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Hey I am in the market for a good turbo setup. I have a ek hatch and I was wondering if with the forementioned setup, will I pass GA emmission? I am looking to setup a good turboed daily driver. Not looking for no outrageous power either.
Look up Lionel Kent, H4 [Nasa Honda Challenge] '95 Civic driver...he had a screaming SOHC last season and can probably give you a few good names.
Since you're going turbo Green91 (if he hasn't replied) may be able to give you some pointers.
As far as passing emission, if you convert to obd1 you will need to keep your obd2 ecu. When you have to get emissions you will have to put your stock ecu and injectors in (I wire the new injectors and can leave the oem clips so you can go back and forth). Also, you will have to drive for about 50 miles to let the ecu go through the readyness check. Car will run normal on stock ecu and inj as long as you don't boost. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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