some questions for you drift fanatics ..
is doing a donut considered a drift ??
and can a FWD car do a drift ?? or is it called skidding for the FWD ??
just wanted to know ..
DONUTS & DRIFTING !!!
some questions for you drift fanatics ..
is doing a donut considered a drift ??
and can a FWD car do a drift ?? or is it called skidding for the FWD ??
just wanted to know ..
NY STAY HIGH !!!
if its in the wrong thread sry MODs ..
NY STAY HIGH !!!
no, and no.
What Cody said.
no!
No! Yes or No depending because drifting is a physics thing meaning that if your tires exceed normal adhesion resulting in oversteering!
no and yes/no. There is a huge debate on FF "drift". IMO, FF's can drift but cannot equal the speed or angle achieved by RWD's.
i <3 hard gay
no.
thank you for ur answers now i will be glad knowing i was right ..
had a debate on it with my friends while drinking .. xP
NY STAY HIGH !!!
so if i get out there and do a 300' diameter doughnut or a couple of figure 8s thats not drifting? or are we talkin about the turn the wheel to lock step on the gas dump the clutch fox body mustang doughnut?
now technically you can fent(sorry if i spelled it wrong), and at the same time trail brake, drift an ff. you have to be goin retardedly fast and about 50% of the time i tried it i ended up in a ditch. 25% of the time it looked really cool and the last 25% of the time i didnt get my deposit back from enterprise.
"...I'm a thief, I'm a liar, There's my church, I sing in the choir..."
lolOriginally Posted by sebastianHoff
drifting requires control... the average moron doing donuts usually doesn't have control
A doughnut is usually a low speed, power induced loss of traction at rear tires, at which point the car rotates around the fronts.
There are two different kinds of drifting, people commonly fail to see. There is a four wheel drift, and what it typically considered "drifting" today. A four wheel drift is a very fast, low angle skid during which the cars tires have just barely exceeded their cornering capabilities. Think of it as a faster, "lift throttle" drift only with much less angle.
I don't believe FWDs can drift. Or at least it's not real drifting. Contrary to what you said Cappi FWDs can actually have a much higher "drift angle" than RWD cars because there is no "balancing" involved. The car is pulling the rear tires, so even if the rear tries have no traction you are still in almost complete control of the car. Gotten into a huge slide you think you can't get out of? Put your foot down, as long as the front tires have traction they will pull you out of whatever you've gotten yourself into.
edit: You are right they they cannot equal the speed, of a RWD car, because they usually require a locked rear tire to slide, which acts as a brake, so the FWD car has to over come the dragging rear tires. RWD you're accelerating without hinderance while sliding.
http://www.drivenminds.net/downloads...eRushComes.mov
(I made this when I was 16, so it's a little lame)
Just before the middle is a clip of me sliding my Maxima with the e-brake up and treys under the rear tires. Watch closely and you'll notice that no matter what, the rear of the car follows the front, that's what separates FWD drifting from RWD. It's the difference between being pushed and pulled. The FWD car does all the steering and puts all the power to the ground so the rear is almost like a trailer, simply following the front.
A RWD car is completely different in the methods used to control and balance the car as it loses traction. In RWD the rear tires are the ones putting the power to the ground so the speed and angle of the slide are partly dependent on them. The other half has to do with how fast you react to a slide at the steering side of the equation. The difference is if you loose all traction at the rear, you usually spin, unless you've given the car an opportunity to regain traction at the rear, by either reducing the amount of throttle input or increasing the steering angle.
Let me put it this way.
In FWD, the sliding car is chasing you.
During the slide; You make an input, and it follows because the drive tires haven't lost traction.
In RWD, you're chasing the sliding car.
During the slide; You make your inputs to steering, brakes, and throttle to determine how the rear tires are relating according to the laws of physics to the pavement beneath them.
Hope this helps.
OK Estis is right with his arguement but at the same time who can really say that FWD drifting isn't really drifing thats just like saying i take Weigh as my protein instead of eating lots of protein from food sources there is no correctly right way of building up your protein intake!
So with drifting as Estis said RWD cars the Rear wheels are pushing the car and the Front wheels are steering which is looked at as the politically correct way in the drift world to most.
And in a FWD car the the Fronts are pulling and steering and the Rear Wheels are used to turn the vehicle by using the E-brake! And in a Fwd you have to use the speed of the car to keep you going through the turn nicely because if you throttle the car will either keep going in the direction the Front wheels are angle to which is mostly likely in a ditch for some of us or the car will correct itself!
This is all physics! I Consider drifting to be Angling yourself into a corner while keeping somewhat of the same speed as you entered the corner in, while still thottling! I say that FWD drifting is power sliding-which to me means that you build up lots of speed and enter the turn not accelerating but using the speed that you built up to get you through the turn or corner!
So FWD is drifting but not look at as drifing because they don't follow the guidelines or scene! Eitherway this can be discussed and debated on for hours and hours! LOL! I have all day i can't even explain the physics part of it if needed!
Last edited by lazyboi444; 10-26-2005 at 08:13 PM. Reason: make it easier to read!
erm... basically it's not the same because in real "drifting" with RWD drive cars, there's a sense of balance.
It takes 0 driving skill to slide a FWD car, simply because you don't "balance" it during a slide. You just pull and put your foot down. There's no technique, no style, nothing interesting about it. You pull the e-brake and put your foot down when you want to come out of the slide.
But who defines real because drifting is a act of breaking the adhesion of your tires causing oversteer. There says nothing about having a real techinque behind it even though in todays drifting it is looked at as you have to have skill to be looked at as drifting! "A wheel is a wheel no matter the look of it"! To be honest i don't care because i'm not fully behind FWD cars drifting otherwise i would have got one! So say what you want but FWD can drift regardless if there is technique behind it or not!
eh... it depends on what form of "drifting" you're talking about. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but FWD cannot technically follow a drift course the same as a RWD car can simply because the laws of physics do not allow it to do so.
There is a completely different behavior to how a rear wheel drive and front wheel drive car behave at the limit of adhesion. During a RWD drift the car is being continually balanced through the entirety of the corner by a series of carefully executed wheel movements and throttle placement, where as a FWD is basically dragging it's ass through the corner and the minute the throttle is planted, and rear traction is regained in the FWD, it will return back to it's natural understeering behavior.
Can a front wheel drive car go through a series of corners sideways? Why yes it can. Does it take any skill or effort to slide a front wheel drive car through a corner? Not really, all it takes is a basic understand of how various automotive platforms behave under different circumstances. A driver in a FWD and a RWD version of the same car go into a corner, who is going to go faster during their "drift"? The driver of the RWD car is because while he is experiencing a loss of traction at the rear, he is still accelerating according to what the car will let him do...
bah I'm piss drunk and this is hard to explain...
take a RWD car and a FWD car into a wet parking lot and tell me which is more fun to drive, and which is more challenging. The RWD car will be, unless your a fan of understeer.
we'll discuss this tomorrow, good sir.
Ok how bout we just discuss this in person, Like at The Atlanta Drift Expo, I'll where a big sign on me that will say my Import atlanta Screename LOL (And look like a idiot but do i care HELL NAW cuz i'mma G wit it)! But i totally understand what you are saying! Lol even if you are drunk!
that works.
im not saying you guys are wrong about the FF drifting/sliding/pull put your foot down thing. But its still fun, sliding, doughnuts, whatever you do, its still fun except for when its done in barret parking lots. lol...
me and a few friends go to our parking lot off the road everytime it rains, and have our little FF drifting get together. So as long as were all happy, having fun, and not getting tickets, ill have my fun SLIDING in the rain.
ass dragging can never be classified as drifting.
"...I'm a thief, I'm a liar, There's my church, I sing in the choir..."
im not saying you guys are wrong about the FF drifting/sliding/pull put your foot down thing. But its still fun, sliding, doughnuts, whatever you do, its still fun except for when its done in barret parking lots. lol...
me and a few friends go to our parking lot off the road everytime it rains, and have our little FF drifting get together. So as long as were all happy, having fun, and not getting tickets, ill have my fun SLIDING in the rain.
what you do in a wet parking lot is NOT drifting and never will be.
yes i know this, i did not say it was. I said it was FUN!
you didn't?
Estis has it right. Drifting is about full control of your car during all situations. A RWD platform can initiate and sustain a "drift" at any point while a FWD car will always rely on inertia to start its "drift". Once a FWD car can actually compete on a Gymkhana course I will say it can drift.
FWD cars compete VERY well on a Gymkhana course with a good driver, Ghymkhana isn't drifting necessarily. ghymkhana is more like a super tight auto-x course where sliding the car in some places really is the fastest way around (like having to circle a single cone 2x before proceeding with the rest of the course).
you can do almost anything with a good driver. I know what it is and I RWD platform is prefered because of how tight the course is and the little chance to build momentum.
FWDs don't drift. They can achieve a 4 wheel drift just like any other car (assuming you can find a FWD car that's THAT neutral), but as drifting is viewed today no matter how many e-brakes you've pulled in parking lots it's not the same. Ass dragging can be accomplished by any ham-fisted driver, where as true drifting requires a delicate touch, and very fast reflexes (especially if you drive a Corolla).
This shouldn't be up for debate. FWD can not drift; because physics does not allow it. End of story.
I never understood you guys and your corollas. I drove one of those in near stock form and thought I was going to kill myself. I had the pedal mashed the whole time and could barely sustain and the body roll was making me sea sick. I have alot of respect for you guys who take that and turn it into a race car.
Stock is a terrible example of what Corollas are like. When I got mine I hated it. When I finally got around to ordering parts it blew me away how communicative the car is. Although when it comes to drifting, they requires a lot of patience because you can't rely on the cars power to help you drift.
Yeah, my friend Ian has a very nicely built one and it still requires that the pedal be on the floor for a low speed turn. I on the other hand suffer from the opposite. I have to do a ton more practice on throttle control as my car likes to get jerky out of a slide. Hopefully my new tie rod ends that will be comming in will help out alot.
Man i hope i can get into the next drift event! I really need the practice and instruction! Anyone know when the a next drifting event will be? And where?
I hear ya. The MSM likes to kick hard when it's in full boost. The downpipe helped smooth my delivery but it's still a little unpredictable. I got some tierod spacers so hopefully they'll help me a bit. Marty says it's like night and day.
i think the only dates announced so far are the atlanta drift expo ones:
April 9th - Turner Field
June 24th - Turner Field
July 15th - Turner Field
November 18th - Turner Field
SEDA and DG trials both have stuff in the works too, and will probably start announcing dates before too long
I think DGTrials was talking sometime in March.
Yeah hopefully i will be ready me and my car! WHOOP WHOOA!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
