from a 00' civic to a 66' mustang

[Sinfix_15]

yeah, gooooooooood luck.

I'd go 331 s/c or all motor 351c.

that makes no sense at all......

331 is a windsor variation. 351c is a big block... if a 302 combination couldnt meet you HP expectations, there's several choices in the middle of a 331 and a 351c.


what you just said was like.....

" hey, where do you want to eat tonight "

A: " eh... lets either grab a burger from mcdonalds or fly to miami for some fresh scallops "

No logic behind this suggestion. and suggesting a 351c for an old street car fixer upper is stupid anyways. Most any normal human being can triple their HP expectations with a windsor, why suggest a torqy bigblock for a possible rusty and soft framed street car... /facepalm.

[silversol]

Looks like a good starting point! but the 65-66 can not hold a big block or a 4.6 with the factory shock towers in place! Its not worth cutting them out and affecting the unibody of the car!

I can tell by the 4 lug wheels its a 6cyl. I would stick with a 289 or a 302. but you will need to upgrade the brakes and rear end first. The first thing that should go is the single port master cyl! upgrade to a duel port master cyl! also ford granada front disk bolt right up.

I would also put the factory front valance and crome bumper back on! if you have any questions let me know. i have done most every thing there is to do to classic mustangs!

[Total_Blender]

351c > 351w.

Goes without saying. But forget about shock towers when it comes to the Clevo... I was going to swap one until I found out you pretty much have to disembowel the front end to get it to fit.

its a V6...

You mean inline 6. Ford didn't put a V6 in the Mustang until the Mustang II.

[silversol]

I am happy for you, but I seriously feel pain if you plan on daily driving that car. It isn't my place to deem a car appropriate or inappropriate for daily use for anyone other than myself, so I will just say I don't think DD'ng that car is a smart idea. Cars even 6-7 years old have crippling problems. I would hate to think about the kind of problems a 44 year old car might have. Best luck to you though.

How do you figure that it wont be a good dd? there is a lot less to go wrong with this car that a new car. what do you think people in the 60s drove every day? if it maintained in should be no problem with it being a dd. i instaled my 302 5 years ago with all new parts,carb,fuel pump,msd dizzy, new alternator and starter. its has never left me stranded or failed to start

[silversol]

Also if this still has points ditch them for a soild state ignition!

[Total_Blender]

Its not worth cutting them out and affecting the unibody of the car!

It is if you know what you're doing and how to properly reinforce the frame and have the ability and cubic dollars to install a Mustang II or Heidt's front end. But you don't need a lot of power to have fun in these cars.

You can have a lot of fun with the six. I was getting 20mpg and I could cruise at 70 all day long with my six, and it was mostly stock. I just put a manual transmission with overdrive and an exhaust header on it recently, so I'm hoping for more economy and a higher cruising speed.

Somebody said Granada brakes will fit... I looked for Granada brakes for 2 years before I found a set at a semi-reasonable price. I'm not parting with them

The 351c is what Ford calls an "intermediate" block. The block itself is not that much different in size from a small block. Its the heads that make the motor large.

[Total_Blender]

Also if this still has points ditch them for a soild state ignition!

Kinda spendy at $470, and I'm not too hot on the GM style cap. But these are probably the best ignition available for the sixes.



http://www.classicinlines.com/products.asp?cat=110

Or you can get the factory duraspark II electronic setup from Pull-a-Part for cheap (thats what I did and it worked fine).

Pertronix is OK if you want to keep the stock Load-O-Matic distributor that only has vacuum advance. And if you keep the Load-O you have to keep the stock carb since they work together.

[MachNU]

that makes no sense at all......

331 is a windsor variation. 351c is a big block... if a 302 combination couldnt meet you HP expectations, there's several choices in the middle of a 331 and a 351c.

Wow when did the 351 become a big block?!?!?! I must have missed that part. TO think all this time I thought the only big block ford vehicle ever was the mid to late 70's truckS!

[Repiks]

The Windsor has always been the small block, and the cleavland has been the big block. It's been that way since the 60's.


I vote for keeping the I-6. Unless you're competent with a wrench and have a decent amount of tools and resources, the swap to a 302 isn't worth it.

You'll need to change out most of the front suspension to properly handle the extra weight of the 302. Unless you can pick up a cheap used mustang 2 front end.

Just keep the sixer and cruise man

[MachNU]

The Windsor has always been the small block, and the cleavland has been the big block. It's been that way since the 60's.

I thought that only the 351M was considered a big block? Hell the only difference between the C and W is the deck height?

[Total_Blender]

The Windsor has always been the small block, and the cleavland has been the big block. It's been that way since the 60's.

Fail - for two reasons

1.) The Cleveland engines did not even come out until 1970. So it hasn't "been that way since the '60's".

2.) The Clevo has the same bore spacing and head bolt pattern as the small block Windsors. Some of the unique features of the Cleveland engines were meant to answer some specific design concerns Ford had regarding marine engines... not having coolant passages in the intake manifold, less gaskets on the block that could leak, etc.

There are various other Ford motors that are proper "big blocks" aka not based at all on Windsor architecture. The MEL series (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln), the FE, and the 385 all have larger bore spacings than the Windsor.

Mach...lots of differences between the C and W, manily the heads and the way coolant passes through them. Also the timing covers. The front of a Cleveland and the front of a Windsor are totally different. And the Cleveland has a few different oil pan configurations depending on the vehicle its in.

Somebody told my dad this one time: "If you find a 351 Cleveland in a car - any car - leave it in that car because thats the only one it will fit in"

[C-loS109]

yeah im reallllly thinking about keeping the 6 in there... and just do mods to it. the engine pulls good and feels good... im not sure im new to this world and half the stuff u all are saying is just flying over my head. before i do anything i need to dive into some books and do alot of research... but i really appreciate all of ur opinions and i hope i can come forward with alot of questions and some are probably going to be stupid... but i mean i have to learn someway or another...

[Total_Blender]

before i do anything i need to dive into some books and do alot of research... ..

Sorry for turning your thread into a debate about engine architecture.

If you want to do some reading about the inline sixes, try these sites:

http://www.fordsix.com

and

http://www.ClassicInlines.com/tech.asp

http://www.classicinlines.com/Q&A.asp

Edit: as far as doing mods to the six... you'll get more "bang for the buck" with a V8. There are people on the Fordsix forum in the 12's and even the 10's, but they spent much more to get that kind of performance than if they'd have gone with the V8.

The sixes are cool IMO because they are unique. They have a different look and a different sound. They are easier than the V8's to work on (most of the time). Stock parts are cheap and easy to get. Hop up parts cost 2-3 times more than V8 parts because very few companies make aftermarket stuff for these motors. And even then you have to modify the parts to get them to fit sometimes.

[C-loS109]

Sorry for turning your thread into a debate about engine architecture.

If you want to do some reading about the inline sixes, try these sites:

http://www.fordsix.com

and

http://www.ClassicInlines.com/tech.asp

http://www.classicinlines.com/Q&A.asp

thanks man repped...

i appreciated to a 100%

[eg mike]

I bet parts are cheap :P


Nice stang even though I am not a fan of the stock look!

[Josh...]

that makes no sense at all......

331 is a windsor variation. 351c is a big block... if a 302 combination couldnt meet you HP expectations, there's several choices in the middle of a 331 and a 351c.


what you just said was like.....

" hey, where do you want to eat tonight "

A: " eh... lets either grab a burger from mcdonalds or fly to miami for some fresh scallops "

No logic behind this suggestion. and suggesting a 351c for an old street car fixer upper is stupid anyways. Most any normal human being can triple their HP expectations with a windsor, why suggest a torqy bigblock for a possible rusty and soft framed street car... /facepalm.

Wow, thats the second time, I'm just going to shut up.

[jmmx258]

Idr what i read, did you say it was a V6 or an inline?? If its an inline what motor is it?

I'm a HUGE fan of the 300. Insane torque out of the motor. For the most part its essentially bullet proof. Built right, a 300 would rip the front wheels right off the ground. You'll get more top end gains with a V8, with more RPM. However you can gear an inline 6 to compensate.

I've been kind of a ford nut lately. I've been looking to find just about any stang and build a 260 stroker for it.

Very nice car, makes me wish i still had my (chevy) my 71 nova! I had a 250 inline 6 in it and was quite the beast hooked up to the 2 speed powerslide. I daily drove it for about 6 months before I sold it.

You'll love the old car!!

[lxatlantaxl]

old school pimpin yo looks fresh

[Total_Blender]

I'm a HUGE fan of the 300. Insane torque out of the motor. For the most part its essentially bullet proof. Built right, a 300 would rip the front wheels right off the ground.

However you can gear an inline 6 to compensate.
!

The 300 is a different engine all together. The architecture is very similar and I think there are some shared parts between the two. But just about everything on the 300 is bigger than the small sixes, especially the block and head. A 300 will NOT fit without a lot of work (its been done before but its a major project).

The small six family has 144, 170, 200, and 250 displacements. Nearly all inline six Mustangs are 200's from the factory. I think they used the 170 in the '64's and then made the 200 standard in '65.

The 250 wasn't introduced until the larger body Mustangs came out in '69. The 250 is the same as the 200 except for a taller deck height, longer rods, a different timing set, and a different water pump.

As far as a comaprrison between the small sixes and the v8's go... there really isn't one, the V8's are just better bang-for-the-buck. If you gear an inline 6 car to match a V8 off the line, you'll just sacrifice top-end and these engines can't breathe all that well up top. I think most guys on the forums reach their torque peaks by 4500.

They are really similar to diesel engines when it comes to HP/torque curves... gobs of torque down low, but they're not high revvers. The breathing problems come from the integrated head/intake log. The carb just mounts to a log on the side of the head. The runners aren't smooth, and the little 1v carb hole is a bottleneck when using a 2v and a 2/1 adapter. And the stock cam is way too soft.

You're stuck with a 1 barrel carb unless you run a 2/1 adapter or modify the head to direct-mount a bigger carb (or carbs)



\
|
Do want.

Edit: the good thing about these motors is the durability. They are just as durable as the 300. That kinda comes with the territory when you have more main bearings in a block than there are bores.

[Total_Blender]

i like it! but for some reason i do not like the color matching front bumpers, i guess bc its missing the chrome accents?

Yeah, theres a thin chrome bumper that goes between the GT350 valance and the grille.

[OTG Signs]

It might be a Chevrolet, but still a good idea for a power adder.

[Sinfix_15]

Wow when did the 351 become a big block?!?!?! I must have missed that part. TO think all this time I thought the only big block ford vehicle ever was the mid to late 70's truckS!

if you're going to laugh at me, know what you're talking about. You sir obviously dont.

[tandem]

You go to WRHS? lol
jw

Cause I see an old school red mustang parked in the back sometimes.

[MachNU]

if you're going to laugh at me, know what you're talking about. You sir obviously dont.

if your going to come back with a comment trying to prove you knew what you where talking about, try to read all the post.

[Sinfix_15]

if your going to come back with a comment trying to prove you knew what you where talking about, try to read all the post.

It's very simple. 351C is a bigblock. You obviously did not know there was a difference.

[Total_Blender]

It's very simple. 351C is a bigblock. You obviously did not know there was a difference.

Awww well now isn't that cute... but its wrong!!11!!111!!!



I've explained this over and over again in previous posts.

The 351 Windsor and Cleveland are different blocks, but the two blocks share the same bore spacing and the same physical dimensions. Its the HEADS on the Cleveland that are larger. The Cleveland is still a small block.

[secondgencamaro]

plenty, I had one of these too, a 66 with a 289. Horrible brakes and no a/c. Mine was in real good shape and still was a chore to keep on the road. G/L though...

Your answer was supposed to be 'No' so I could be a proper jackass! Dammit! What kind of mileage did you get with your 289? My girl is insistent on keeping hers instead of going 302 roller because it was the factory block. Power disc conversion is on the list before it ever sees pavement. Got the kinks out of my Camaro in about 6 months of dailying it, though. Had some weekend driving on it before that though.

[MachNU]

Awww well now isn't that cute... but its wrong!!11!!111!!!



I've explained this over and over again in previous posts.

The 351 Windsor and Cleveland are different blocks, but the two blocks share the same bore spacing and the same physical dimensions. Its the HEADS on the Cleveland that are larger. The Cleveland is still a small block.

Dammit beaqt me to it! the 351M was the closet to the big block. It was a Modified 400

[Sinfix_15]

Dammit beaqt me to it! the 351M was the closet to the big block. It was a Modified 400

351m is a 400 with shorter rods. same demensions as a 351c. There's a vague distinction between what determines a big block from a small block. Bore spacing is the same on all of the engines in debate. a 351c longblock is significantly larger than its windsor counterparts. Read my original post, it was clearly to make the point that for several reasons a 351c is not a wise choice of engine and not to start an engine debate.

[Total_Blender]

Read my original post, it was clearly to make the point that for several reasons a 351c is not a wise choice of engine and not to start an engine debate.

All you would have had to say was "the 351c is physically too big to fit without cutting up the car". Which is what myself and others said. No need to go into semantics about what is and isn't a big block.

Whether or not its "worth it" to install the Clevo depends on your bankroll and your level of skill. If you have the skills to graft on a different suspension, or the money to have someone do it for you. If its in your capabilities to do, its totally worth it. The Cleveland heads are much, much better than Windsor heads and the total cost of building the motors is about the same. Cleveland is a bigger "bang for the buck" than the Windsor when it comes to HP made per dollar spent.

Back to the OP's question though...

You can use the V8 steering and brakes with the inline 6 engines. Thats what I'm planning on doing. So you could build the rest of the car (suspension, brakes, steering, rear end, etc) to suit a V8 and then swap in a V8 motor once you have the rest of the car set up for it.

[Brian*]

Hmm... not sure about that one. its you car though.

[SouthSide Tay]

that makes no sense at all......

331 is a windsor variation. 351c is a big block... if a 302 combination couldnt meet you HP expectations, there's several choices in the middle of a 331 and a 351c.


what you just said was like.....

" hey, where do you want to eat tonight "

A: " eh... lets either grab a burger from mcdonalds or fly to miami for some fresh scallops "

No logic behind this suggestion. and suggesting a 351c for an old street car fixer upper is stupid anyways. Most any normal human being can triple their HP expectations with a windsor, why suggest a torqy bigblock for a possible rusty and soft framed street car... /facepalm.

quoting a genuis

[Jason..]

plans?

RB-26