View Poll Results: Should abortions laws be institued by State or Federal government?

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Thread: An attack on Roe vs. Wade

  1. #1
    D A W C22H19N3O4's Avatar
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    Default An attack on Roe vs. Wade

    As most of you know South Dakota Gov. Michael Rounds signed into law last week a near-total abortion ban. The law makes it a felony for health providers to perform abortions, even in cases of rape or incest, unless a women’s life is in jeopardy.This is obviously political maneuvering and is illegal. What happened to the governor's oath to uphold the Constitution? He is clearly violating the rights of all the women in South Dakota set forth by the Supreme Court. IMHO, Gov. Rounds doesn't care about the welfare of the mother or the unborn child. It's a dirty Republican tactic to challenge Roe vs. Wade. Why now? Well with the newly appointed Justices the Republicans feel like it's their time. I'm sure it doesn't hurt Governer Rounds' political agenda for bigger and better things within his party. There are ten other states considering a similar bill, including Georgia. Several organizations have asked for an impeachment of the governor. He is in fact violating a Federal law. This is an open assault on the rights of women and how they choose to live their life. Can you imagine the MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars that will be wasted to fight this statute? This will be tied up in the courts for a very long time. I think former justice Sandra Day O'Connor, a Republican-appointed judge, was correct when she stated that our country will slide towards a dictatorship if the Republicans continue to attack the judiciary.

    So, with all that said cast your vote. Leave a comment if you like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pharm_teg
    As most of you know South Dakota Gov. Michael Rounds signed into law last week a near-total abortion ban. The law makes it a felony for health providers to perform abortions, even in cases of rape or incest, unless a women’s life is in jeopardy.This is obviously political maneuvering and is illegal. What happened to the governor's oath to uphold the Constitution? He is clearly violating the rights of all the women in South Dakota set forth by the Supreme Court. IMHO, Gov. Rounds doesn't care about the welfare of the mother or the unborn child. It's a dirty Republican tactic to challenge Roe vs. Wade. Why now? Well with the newly appointed Justices the Republicans feel like it's their time. I'm sure it doesn't hurt Governer Rounds' political agenda for bigger and better things within his party. There are ten other states considering a similar bill, including Georgia. Several organizations have asked for an impeachment of the governor. He is in fact violating a Federal law. This is an open assault on the rights of women and how they choose to live their life. Can you imagine the MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars that will be wasted to fight this statute? This will be tied up in the courts for a very long time. I think former justice Sandra Day O'Connor, a Republican-appointed judge, was correct when she stated that our country will slide towards a dictatorship if the Republicans continue to attack the judiciary.

    So, with all that said cast your vote. Leave a comment if you like.

    i agree 100%, republicans and christian coalition would rather see women die in back ally ways getting underground abortions with coat hangers; then allow a women to choose what she wants to do with her own body.

    abortion has to be one of the dumbest fucking laws to even be disputed about. how can anyone tell me what to do with my body? what next should be ban all cigarettes b/c its a slow way of commiting suicide through lung cancer? how about alcohol... our own president has a DUI, maybe we should ban that as well alchol can lead to addiction, liver problems, etc...

    we can go on for days about what someone should and should not do with ones body, but it is up to the individual to choose what they seem is right for them. it is amazing our fathers died coming to a new country to bring us away from the rule of a dictator and now 200+ years later we are moving backward towards that once again.

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    Here is some good reading for all of those against abortion... maybe this won't have to happen to your wife, sister, mother before you will realize something.

    Rape victim: 'Morning after' pill denied
    By Carla McClain
    Arizona Daily Star
    Tucson, Arizona | Published: 10.23.2005

    Although it is safe, effective and legal, emergency contraception - the "morning after" pill - can be hard to find in Tucson.

    After a sexual assault one recent weekend, a young Tucson woman spent three frantic days trying to obtain the drug to prevent a pregnancy, knowing that each passing day lowered the chance the drug would work.
    While calling dozens of Tucson pharmacies trying to fill a prescription for emergency contraception, she found that most did not stock the drug.
    When she finally did find a pharmacy with it, she said she was told the pharmacist on duty would not dispense it because of religious and moral objections.

    "I was so shocked," said the 20-year-old woman, who, as a victim of sexual assault, is not being named by the Star. "I just did not understand how they could legally refuse to do this."

    But many stores are. A 2004 survey of more than 900 Arizona pharmacies found less than half keep emergency contraception drugs in stock, with most saying there is too little demand, but some cite moral reasons, according to the Arizona Family Planning Council.

    Yet, family-planning agencies say they've seen a 60 percent increase in demand for the drug in recent years. The statistics are creating what advocates say is a frightening situation for some women. But others are glad pharmacists have a choice.

    Women who report sexual assaults to police receive treatment, examination and the immediate offer of emergency contraception at a local emergency room, according to the policy of most Tucson hospitals.

    But, like many sexual assault victims, the 20-year-old woman did not report the assault because she felt traumatized and guilty she had put herself in a situation that left her vulnerable. She was mistakenly locked outside a gathering at a friend's house and accepted the offer of a neighbor to stay at his place.

    "This (sex) was with someone I did not even know and did not want to have intercourse with, and I am in no place now to have children," she said. "I just don't think this should be the pharmacist's decision."

    The manager of the Fry's pharmacy at 3920 E. Grant Road, where the refusal occurred, offered to find another location where the prescription could be filled, according to a Fry's spokeswoman. But the young woman said she was offered no other options.

    Although emergency contraception drugs have been around in one form or another for more than two decades, they remain highly controversial, with anti-abortionists and religious conservatives saying they can abort a fertilized egg.

    To be taken within three to five days of unprotected intercourse, emergency contraception - also known as "Plan B" - prevents pregnancy by stopping ovulation, fertilization or implantation of a fertilized egg. The sooner the emergency contraception is taken after intercourse, the more effective it is.
    More widespread use of emergency contraception could prevent as many as 800,000 surgical abortions a year, according to family-planning groups such as Planned Parenthood.

    Controversy over emergency contraception is roiling now at the national level, with FDA scientists resigning over the agency's refusal to allow emergency contraception to be sold over the counter, without a prescription.
    The issue surfaced in Arizona last winter, when Gov. Janet Napolitano vetoed a bill that would have permitted pharmacists to refuse to dispense it on moral or religious grounds.

    But her veto was essentially meaningless, as most of the drugstore chains that dominate Tucson already allow that as a matter of corporate policy. Most also require that the customer be immediately referred to another pharmacist or drugstore willing to fill the prescription.

    "The idea is, if our pharmacist won't dispense it, the patient will know where to go to get it," said Michael Polzin, a national Walgreens spokesman.
    That same policy is in effect at all Fry's Food Store pharmacies, said Fry's spokeswoman Kendra Doyel.

    On the night three weeks ago when an on-duty Fry's pharmacist refused to fill the emergency contraception prescription, the pharmacy manager offered to find another pharmacy that would, according to Doyel.

    "He felt he was making every attempt to help her get what she needed. A pharmacist would never just say 'you're out of luck,' " said Doyel, who would not allow any of the Fry's employees involved in the incident to be interviewed.

    But a friend with the sexual assault victim that night strongly disputed that account.

    "He (the manager) said he would fill it himself if we could get there before his shift ended, within 10 minutes," said Sabrina Fladness, a University of Arizona student and owner of a computer service business.

    "But we were more than 10 minutes away, so that was impossible. So he said we would have to come back the next morning" - after the shift of the refusing pharmacist ended.

    "He made no provision for getting it that night," she said.
    The two also attempted to obtain the drug at a Planned Parenthood clinic, but could not afford the $70 cost and apparently were not informed that Planned Parenthood will work out payment on a sliding scale fee.
    "We have all kinds of compassion for a rape victim - in that case, Plan B is OK, the church has no problem with it," said Ron Johnson, with the Arizona Catholic Conference, which supports the right of any health-care worker to refuse to dispense emergency contraception and lobbied hard for passage of the Arizona law to allow it.

    But the biggest roadblock to obtaining emergency contraception was that most pharmacies simply do not stock it, Fladness said. She said she called nearly 50, before finding two that had it and agreed to dispense it.
    The Fry's spokeswoman could not immediately say how many of its stores had emergency contraception in stock. Polzin, the national Walgreens spokesman, said only one of the 50 Walgreens in the Tucson area did not have the drug on the shelves last week.

    But that somewhat contradicts the formal Arizona Family Planning Council survey that found only 43 percent of Arizona pharmacies keep it in stock, with most that don't - nearly 60 percent - citing lack of demand as the reason. Another 10 percent cited moral reasons.

    At the same time, officials at Planned Parenthood say they have seen a dramatic rise in demand for emergency contraception in recent years - filling more than 5,000 prescriptions for it this year, compared with 3,000 last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    i agree 100%, republicans and christian coalition would rather see women die in back ally ways getting underground abortions with coat hangers; then allow a women to choose what she wants to do with her own body.

    abortion has to be one of the dumbest fucking laws to even be disputed about. how can anyone tell me what to do with my body? what next should be ban all cigarettes b/c its a slow way of commiting suicide through lung cancer? how about alcohol... our own president has a DUI, maybe we should ban that as well alchol can lead to addiction, liver problems, etc...

    we can go on for days about what someone should and should not do with ones body, but it is up to the individual to choose what they seem is right for them. it is amazing our fathers died coming to a new country to bring us away from the rule of a dictator and now 200+ years later we are moving backward towards that once again.
    I agree, but they should ban partial abortion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    i agree 100%, republicans and christian coalition would rather see women die in back ally ways getting underground abortions with coat hangers; then allow a women to choose what she wants to do with her own body.

    abortion has to be one of the dumbest fucking laws to even be disputed about. how can anyone tell me what to do with my body? what next should be ban all cigarettes b/c its a slow way of commiting suicide through lung cancer? how about alcohol... our own president has a DUI, maybe we should ban that as well alchol can lead to addiction, liver problems, etc...

    we can go on for days about what someone should and should not do with ones body, but it is up to the individual to choose what they seem is right for them. it is amazing our fathers died coming to a new country to bring us away from the rule of a dictator and now 200+ years later we are moving backward towards that once again.
    On a few parts of this, i do agree. Women are going to do what they want BUT i believe that abortion should only be if the mother carrying the child cannot carry it to full term, or if it was a rape. Any Woman who voluntarily lays down, spreads her legs, then has a child has to deal with the consequences, at which point, she can give the child up for adoption. The only thing i strongly disagree with you on is when you said something bout the govt not being able to tell people what to do with their own bodies. The key here is OWN. After the have concieved a child, their body isnt just theirs anymore. Here's another idea for you to think about: If your parents aborted you, your opinion would not count so think about that next time you think bout abortion laws and be glad you are here to bitch bout them. Sorry if you disagree. just my

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    Quote Originally Posted by b18hatch
    Here's another idea for you to think about: If your parents aborted you, your opinion would not count so think about that next time you think bout abortion laws and be glad you are here to bitch bout them. Sorry if you disagree. just my
    here is my take on abortion... do you enjoy oral sex? well guess what every time you blow a load into your girls mouth she is consuming millions of your children which will die.

    so next time you want to blow your load make sure not to miss her vagina or your killing the children of the future.

    everyone has their own opinion, your entitled to that, maybe people should be entitled to do what thou will w/ their body

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    its called protection man. That simple. all i meant was that i do see certain (albeit very few ) circumstances in which abortion is ok. if people have babies, they should have to raise them, not have an abortion and keep screwing.

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    The thing that pisses me off about unclear fetus rights is that if a fetus isnt a person, why did scott peterson get charged with a double murder. there needs to be federal statute on what is what and not just people using whatever excuse they want.

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    Let me say that I am a firm supporter of ECPs and RU-486. IMHO, if ECPs were readily available in hosptials and pharmacies incidents of late term abortions would decrease. They should be available with a rape kit in all ER's.
    This bill will be thrown out like the one in 1992 and like the ones in the late 80's. No Supreme Court Justice, Roberts or otherwise, will allow a state bill to slap them across the face with reckless contempt. Anyway you look at it, the state legislators of South Dakota have violated a federal statute. Furthermore, they don't have the money to let this play out for years.



    Quote Originally Posted by b18hatch
    After the have concieved a child, their body isnt just theirs anymore.
    Really? Whose is it? The state legislators? Perhaps Father O'Sullivan's at St. Mary's Church? You may want to re-think your comments b/c it made no sense. There are a few things I've never understood about pro-lifers. Most of you believe treating our citizens with respect and civility will help our country flourish, but you endorse executing guilty (or innocent) inmates. Then you turn one of many cheeks to preach that killing anything showing signs of life is unconstitutional. Also, you believe in giving that undeveloped fetus a chance at life, but you complain about the millions each state pays to house, clothe, feed, and educate these gifts of God. Let's not talk about the psychological scars left on the mother and the child. Do you want to be the one that tells little Timmy that his dad was/is a rapist? He will more than likely end up in our prison system, and spit back out into society with nothing more than he started with when he was born....the pro-lifers fervent belief that this fetus should be given a chance at life.

    Quote Originally Posted by b18hatch
    Any Woman who voluntarily lays down, spreads her legs, then has a child has to deal with the consequences, at which point, she can give the child up for adoption.
    You mentioned voluntarily, but this bill states the mother must have the child whether intercourse was consensual or not. Do you hate women that much? How often do you think the father's deal with the consequences , i.e. child support and emotional support? Yes, all fathers love their children sooooo much we don't have to legally enforce child support...lol. BTW, who do you think is going to pay for that full-term pregnancy? That's right...the taxpayers.

    Republican pro-lifers love to dictate the ethical standards Americans "should" live by. I think Tom Delay is their Poster Child.
    Last edited by pharm_teg; 03-15-2006 at 04:41 AM. Reason: text

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    I'd like to hear from the female members.

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    Real quick before I leave for work, you guys pretty much said it but the reason I am pro choice is

    1. The government should not have the ability to dictate what someone does to their own body regardless, its contradicts what this country is supposed to stand for, freedom.

    2. Once laws are passed to ban abortion I think it will lead to other things as well, suddenly certain types of tattoo's are banned, or piercings (as much as I don't like them) but I'm sure you guys see where I'm going. You're opening up a huge can of worms by passing a law like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony
    Real quick before I leave for work, you guys pretty much said it but the reason I am pro choice is

    1. The government should not have the ability to dictate what someone does to their own body regardless, its contradicts what this country is supposed to stand for, freedom.

    2. Once laws are passed to ban abortion I think it will lead to other things as well, suddenly certain types of tattoo's are banned, or piercings (as much as I don't like them) but I'm sure you guys see where I'm going. You're opening up a huge can of worms by passing a law like that.
    bunch of fucking nazi's... seriously what i dont' get is with all of these bible thumping prolifers, WHY DO YOU HAVE ORPHANS IN THIS COUNTRY? I would love to know the % of Prolife vs. ProChoice who have adopted kids

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    Senior Member metalman's Avatar
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    The "Bible thumpers" sadly are often the most ignorant about the book they propose to follow. Choices involving morality, which is really the issue with abortion, should NOT be regulated by the state. I am not in favor of abortion but I AM in favor of moral freedom of concience, a God given principle AND an American constitutional prinicple.

    It is amazing to me that MOST of the "Bible thumpers" are driven only to save the fetus. Nothing more. Once they force a mother to be pregnant and carry her fetus to term their interest in that human being abruptly stops. If that mother & child live in absolute poverty without education or medical care and starve thats ok, as long as that fetus was saved. This is disgusting and absurd. It also not in keeping with the Book they say they honor.

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    Everyone in here is acting like every pregnancy happens to a single mom. My old neighbor has had to take his girlfriend twice to get abortions in the last year because she was so young (he was 18 and she was 15). Now as of right now she is two months pregnant. People like that use abortion as a form of birth control pretty much and that is why im against it. If you get raped, cant carry to term, whatever, as long as its a ligitamate(sp?) reason other than i slept around and got pregnant, then maybe abortion would be the right thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalman
    It is amazing to me that MOST of the "Bible thumpers" are driven only to save the fetus. Nothing more. Once they force a mother to be pregnant and carry her fetus to term their interest in that human being abruptly stops. If that mother & child live in absolute poverty without education or medical care and starve thats ok, as long as that fetus was saved. This is disgusting and absurd. It also not in keeping with the Book they say they honor.
    you act like the parents are alone?? why do you think we pay taxes?? There are programs out there for mothers and children such as welfare, WIC, and quite a few more. Ive worked at two grocery stores and hell, some people of foodstamps eat better than i do! And last time i checked, education was free (minus tax we pay to fund them). and if the baby starves, chances are it would end up being put into foster care. Sooo, the baby would be taken care of and if the mom is single, so will she. your tax dollars at work man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b18hatch
    you act like the parents are alone?? why do you think we pay taxes?? There are programs out there for mothers and children such as welfare, WIC, and quite a few more. Ive worked at two grocery stores and hell, some people of foodstamps eat better than i do! And last time i checked, education was free (minus tax we pay to fund them). and if the baby starves, chances are it would end up being put into foster care. Sooo, the baby would be taken care of and if the mom is single, so will she. your tax dollars at work man.

    You make it all sound so simple when it really isn't

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    I agree with you man, it isnt simple, but we do pay taxes on shit like this and regardless man, it kinda seems like everyone is thinking its a right to have abortion. I dont fully disagree with it. there are times when it may be needed. There does need to be a federal statute on what is what though cause im not defending him, but if a fetus has no rights, then scott peterson shouldnt be serving double murder. There have been alot of cases in which a pregnant mother got murdered and the murderer got two murder charges. If the fetus has no rights as a being, then the double murder is a fucked up double standard. Didnt mean to get off topic there, but as long as we pay taxes, There are programs availible for mothers with children so other than rape or not being able to physically have the baby i think abortion is fucked up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b18hatch
    There are programs availible for mothers with children so other than rape or not being able to physically have the baby i think abortion is fucked up.
    The programs you speak of are weak at best. I know of rural areas where people live in abject poverty & misery DESPITE these wonderful programs you say they have. Besides we really don't need to ADD to those living off the rest of us, we need ot discourage that and encourage others to support themselves.

    But thats not the real issue with abortion....
    The real issue is that it shouldnt be up to you or me or the state whether anyone gets an abortion...or makes all the right moral choices. Legislating your morals & principles, mine, or anyone elses is very dangerous business indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalman
    The programs you speak of are weak at best. I know of rural areas where people live in abject poverty & misery DESPITE these wonderful programs you say they have. Besides we really don't need to ADD to those living off the rest of us, we need ot discourage that and encourage others to support themselves.

    But thats not the real issue with abortion....
    The real issue is that it shouldnt be up to you or me or the state whether anyone gets an abortion...or makes all the right moral choices. Legislating your morals & principles, mine, or anyone elses is very dangerous business indeed.
    Good points
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