i dont think the government should be involved in who marrys who...i jus don think its fair to everyone
i dont think the government should be involved in who marrys who...i jus don think its fair to everyone
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It shouldn't be an issue that is voted about. This is where it gets me, how does two gay people being married hurt or harm you in any way. How does it deter you from accomplishing your goals in life. If you are that against gay people then its hard for you to live in public because there are a lot more gay people than you think. I personally don't care if two gay guys want to get married. It does no harm to me what-so-ever and it makes someone else happy...so who gives a shit if they are gay. And if it is so wrong religiously then let God decide where they go upon death not how they are limited in life. We aren't ones to play God so don't try to use religion as a defense I think. Also, if two gay guys got married, they'd both probably have wedding bands. When you see a guy with a wedding band are you going to know whether hes straight gay bi married to a man or woman? No, your gonna know hes married. If it affects you personally that much then you need to think long and hard because you'd be prejudice. About the whole black and white topic, if you ask a gay guy or lesbian when they "became" gay, many of them will say I was born this way. I don't fully agree with that, but then again I don't know what it is to be like that. So if they truely feel like that, how are we not holding it against them and being prejudice. Its hipocracy I think. (This is not directed at anyone in general I was saying "you" in a general sense)
I understand the otherside of the argument perfectly. Jaime is basically standing on that if there are no standards set, and if something like 2 males marrying happens, then it opens a floodgate for people who want to form other crazy, weird, marriages [i.e. incest]. I can understand that, but personally weighing the issue, i believe that gay couples should be able to wed. Even though many are thinking of some financial reprecussions, I dont think that the majority of these couples are marrying for tax breaks, but for emotional reasons. Marriage is supposed to be something beautiful, and symbolic of a union. I dont think that many men get togethor and plot a marriage as a tax scheme or since joint insurance is cheaper per person than a single account.
Sanctatity of marriage? Sounds like a good marriage. So two people of the same sex marrying is tarnishing the image of marriage. So can it be understood that two people marrying of the same sex is seen as wrong by the government? I think its an issue where personal opinions of government officials are making the decisions. Too much bias
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So essentially what you are saying is that THIS particular cross section of people is worth giving something to, but the others (crazies, incest, monkey fuckers, etc) are not? My question to you is, if that's so, how can you justify that? Further more, when is there ever going to be a limit to anything anymore? WHY do we keep giving in to every tom/dick/and harry that wants something and justifies it by saying "this is the land of the free, so you GOTTA give it to me"?Originally Posted by FrnkPwrs
Even though many are thinking of some financial reprecussions, I dont think that the majority of these couples are marrying for tax breaks, but for emotional reasons. Marriage is supposed to be something beautiful, and symbolic of a union. I dont think that many men get togethor and plot a marriage as a tax scheme or since joint insurance is cheaper per person than a single account.
Wrong. The biggest argument the Gay supporters have ALWAYS made about this has NEVER been about "emotions". It has ALWAYS been about "rights" (or lack thereof) and "benefits" married couples receive that they don't. Again, no Gay couple will ever be married thru a church, so therefore it's a LEGAL battle because they feel entitled to something that they feel is rightfully theirs. Without legally defining what legal "marriage" is and isnt', they actually have a valid point right now. In order to settle the complaint, you have to first have some boundaries. W/O boundaries, everything goes.
All the Gay supporters make all the non-supporters out to be some kind of lynch mob. I don't see any hangings or burnings. I don't even see people being told NOT to be Gay or with people of the same sex. As a matter of fact, there are countries today that BAN the practice of homosexuality. To the point of killing people that are found to be Gay. Why not go fight that fight? That's much more oppressive than being told you don't have, what many supporters here have referred to as marriage being....just a piece of paper.
The reason? No money in it. Crude, but true. Nothing to personally gain from fighting that fight, although it is allegedly about "warm and fuzzies" and the sanctity of finally being seen as a "married" couple. BS. It's about wanting something for themselves.
How many people do yall think are not out there RIGHT THIS SECOND living as husband and wife W/O ever getting LEGALLY married? How many of those people do you think are belly aching about not getting this or that which their "married" neighbor gets?
It's about public acceptance via the end of a gun.
You can't have it both ways. You can't say that marriage is a "sacred" or "special" union, only to come back and let that mean anything and everything. How's that special and sacred? On the other hand, you can't argue that it's only a piece of paper, and then stomp up and down until you get that worthless piece of paper. If it is so "worthless", why are you bitching to get one?
I agree with Greg, and I've been saying so all along. We have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, sometime. If you don't, then it's anarchy. And considering that marriage has been taken so lightly in the last few decades in the U.S., this seems like the perfect issue to draw a line on.
I do agree with this paragraph. You can't just keep giving and giving just because people keep wanting and wanting.
Crazies, incesters, and monkey fuckers(lolol) seem, to me, to be a different type of different. Homosexuals are not, nor potentially, harmful to others. Crazies, obviously, are. Incesters can produce messed up children. Monkey fuckers(lolol) can ....I have no fucking clue. Lolol.
Who's to say they're right? As nasty as it is, I don't feel that it is immoral. Later, QD.
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What if they argue that IF they want to harm themselves, they should be allowed to do so? What if they argue that since babies are not 100% of the time affected by incestual relations, they should be allowed to try for that small percentage that do turn out half right?
I do see your point, but again there has to be a limit to everything. Where do we set it for this?
Who's to say they're right? As nasty as it is, I don't feel that it is immoral. Later, QD.
I was just answering his question. He asked, "who says it's immoral?", and I'm merely saying "billions of people" do. Right or wrong, that's true.
As I see your point, too. If it causes potential harm to others or themselves, then no, obviously it shouldn't be catered to. If there is a chance of a fucked up child, then no.
You know what, dude? We will probably never know.
I got ya. Later, QD.I was just answering his question. He asked, "who says it's immoral?", and I'm merely saying "billions of people" do. Right or wrong, that's true.
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Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve
I guess its hard for the stubborn to understand what its like to be the one who is put in the situation they are...being oppressed(sp?)...I gurantee you'd hate it if it was something as seroius as this (to many)...I really don't get why people are so against it as if it will change the world into a violent place where you can't even be safe on the streets...
i dont agree with the whole idea of it... but as i said pages and pages back in the thread... let them do their thing.. .because some ppl are only becomingto rebell. If its out in the open like that they will just become a extreme minority, become persecuted, etc... maybe as extreme as coming to the advent of some gay country like gayland or something off the coasts of florida, who knows? It happened before hadnt it?... The 13 colonies, remember? I DO NOT BELIEVE ITS GENETIC/ ETC and i think its 100% their fault mental (marbles missing, etc) thats my belief... i dont have proof, yall dont either so its a belief.
what is also true is what one dude said earlier... it has been going on since time was time. Do u know how many fags are in greek mythology, etc?
I don't believe in them at all.. have very little respect for them ( dont show it outwards completely tho).... but they should have their rights... it would also slow the "infection rate". it wouldnt be as considered - to rebell by converting
just my belief...
I feel bad for you.i dont agree with the whole idea of it... but as i said pages and pages back in the thread... let them do their thing.. .because some ppl are only becoming
what is also true is what one dude said earlier... it has been going on since time was time. Do u know how many fags are in greek mythology, etc?
I don't believe in them at all.. have very little respect for them ( dont show it outwards completely tho).... but they should have their rights... it would also slow the "infection rate". it wouldnt be as considered - to rebell by converting
just my belief...
Val for President.
I tried to not come here , but I did, a rant follows;
The Governmant, like us... MUST stand against somethings, and stand FOR somethings, or you will fall for anything.
I proudly stand against gay marraige. When did a moral wrong become a civic right?
Dont say The Constitution.
The context of this countrys Constitution and Bill of Rights is so misread, and misunderstood that its a shame. In the gay marraige rights fight, they keep crying out there is separation of church and state, because of the Churches fight against thier marraige. Do you really know where this claimed separation is found? Doubt it. Most people that fight for this dont actually know w/o research.
Once you find it, you'll see the separation is FOR the church to provide Gov leadership, and also protect the CHURCH from the gov trying to impose a particular faith on them, the reason this country was REALLY founded, that the liberal few had removed from text books. Also to prove this, our currency says "In God we Trust", our pledge is "One nation UNDER God"...and so on...This country was fouded on Faith and its (the early churches) idea of morality. The same morality that opposed gay marraige.
Its a weak argument to hear people make claim that former greats were gay. What this proves is nothing. You can not prove, nor can I disprove anyone that is dead, and has been for a thousand years was gay. If they were gay...and you are "outting them" now, then obviousally they were ashamed, and they didnt out themselves, so they realized how morally wrong it is. Its just ignorant to do it now, especially when you cant REALLY prove it.
I know some people experiment in ways, I am not stupid, I am disputing a way of life that is Bibically sacred and reserved as a covenant relationship, by its founder. The founder of marraige also stated that it was to be ONE man with ONE woman. A fight that is long behind us, like this will be one day as well. Its funny how people only want something, when they realize they cant have it.
Go ahead w/ your lives, sorry for the interruption.
GC
Greg
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I wish I had more time to post, but I have to go to work. I dont think that its hard to prove the people mentioned in this thread was gay. Its really is mostly common fact that a lot of people dont read in the school textbooks. Julius Ceaser, for example, was known for having sex with multiple men, and it was documented the same way people document when a famous figure today is out.
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Where the hell have you been when I needed back-up?????
Totally agree with your statement.
and who is this founder of marriage you speak of?
Val for President
Just curious, but how will gay marriage hurt you?What will change so drastically, or at all, in your life that you have to take a stand? I don't think it is a moral wrong, just because they choose to be that different. I wouldn't do it. I think it's gross as hell, but it doesn't hurt or affect me, so I don't worry about it.
Two out of Three I agree with. I don't think it is genetic and I am sure it is their fault(they chose this lifestyle). But I keep failing to see where it is a mental problem. Later, QD.
That's why they are called opinions. Later, QD.
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I gotta comment on one part (i can't read it all cause I'm at work so I jus read the first half) the part, under god, was add'd in the 50s? i believe. It wasn't part of the original pledge. Go look up that part on why it was add'd if you don't know. This country was founded on people wanting to be free and not forced to do things or restricted from doing other things. I say it does not cause any harm to people to allow gays to marry. If they are going to be persecuted as someone said in a previous post, then the government should stop THAT from happening, not from letting them marry. A marriage is a bond between two people that care about each other. If its two guys two girls or coed who gives a shit. Who is to say that their love is different. If you've ever loved someone so much that you never wanted to lose them...nothing would ever seperate you two, and then you were told you werent allowed to marry, what would you say? Would you say? Two people love each other they are going to show it, who cares if they have a band on their finger or not...let them live their lives how they want to.
That doesn't mean that EVERYTHING is going to be allowed or legalized. Some countries allow marijuana to be smoked publicly and legally. Why aren't we suddenly taking up arms against THAT "hinderance" here?
Whatever. There has to be limits to everything. EVERYTHING. If you wanna get really technical, this country was founded on LAWS. LAWS that were decided on by the gov't AS a rep of the masses. You wanna take just a little sample vote of the "masses" in the U.S. and THEIR wants and desires towards this???? I'll put money on that going over like a lead balloon. Wanna bet me?
Like I said before, you can't have it both ways. You can't say "I want this law, but I want to be the only one to VOTE on it". Doesn't work that way.
Wow, thanks for proving my point. What else is there to talk about now?Two people love each other they are going to show it, who cares if they have a band on their finger or not...let them live their lives how they want to.
i still think it should be right for them to marry, other wise, our country in my opinion, does not give equal rights to everyone whether they be gay or not
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just because they kept it a secret doesnt mean its morally wrong. they just didnt want to be judged by a society who doesnt understand them (i.e. you). and who ever said it was IMMORAL to be a homosexual?
Val for President
I'll bite.
Then why did they keep it secret then?
BTW, Billions of people feel it's immoral to be Gay.
ok you wouldnt have to ask that question if you read my entire post. here ill quote my own post for you.
and just because billions of people feel its immoral than its immoral? and plus where does it say that its immoral? i have never heard anyone except a hypocritical christian say that (not all are hypocritical just to clarify that satement, just this one that i have heard that from) you dont judge whats immoral.
Last edited by Hulud; 04-18-2005 at 03:18 PM.
Val for President
To someone with your belief system, What is YOUR morality geiger? Since you don't believe in God of any kind, what do YOU base your scrutiny of right vs wrong on?
There is no tangible proof that we evolved from a "big bang", yet individuals like yourself believe that. Contrary to your assertions, that my friend is in fact FAITH. It's a crazy FAITH IMO, but by definition it is YOUR FAITH because it's belief in something that is not tangible. Point? By definition, you yourself are being hypocritical, so I wouldn't be so quick in labeling people in the future.
What makes YOUR faith any more viable a gauge for morality than mine? And if we're not going to use FAITH as the gauge for morality, what will we use?
you are the one labeling me, saying what people LIKE ME believe. you dont know me dont tell me what i believe. who was i labeling? it wasnt you or anyone on this board just a person i know personally. and what makes your gods view more important than someone elses views? i have not been hypocritical show me a quote where i was hypocritical please. and i never said what i believe in is more viable than anothers, your the only one implying that.
Val for President
If ANYONE on this board dares to say they do not have a secret that they hide because they know some of the things that may come about by letting it out publicly..a past incident or anything...then they shall burn in hell for lies..EVERYONE has secrets...I know straight couples who keep their relationships secret because of morons who like to start drama...
You know what? I honestly do NOT have any secrets that I am afraid of people finding out. I have done nothing that I am worried about people finding out. Later, QD.
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LoL...QD, it was a generalized statement basically getting at the point there are many people who have secrets that they don't talk about openly because of people who would bash them for it
Jamie, you are defending my side as well here. If they have a band on their finger does it hurt you, because thats what they want. You are saying that because YOU don't want it, it shouldn't be. Marijuana is a completely differnet subject. Thats comparing apples to oranges. Marijuana hurts people, both themselves and people around them. Yes so does alcohol but like I said, these are NOT related. How does two gay people cause harm to ANYBODY? Answer me that
Umm, not really. I don't agree with Gay marriages and you do. How's that the same?
If they have a band on their finger does it hurt you, because thats what they want. You are saying that because YOU don't want it, it shouldn't be.
It doesn't hurt me one bit. It never has and it probably never will. That has never been my contention. I'm not SCARED of people. I really don't want to impose my beliefs on anyone. I really don't care if they want to live in that way. My only point has always been the same: There has to be a limit. This is great place to drill that message home because it is very black and white divided along personal belief lines. Not many fence riders here.
Marijuana is a completely differnet subject. Thats comparing apples to oranges. Marijuana hurts people, both themselves and people around them. Yes so does alcohol but like I said, these are NOT related.
Not really. There are many many people that truly feel marijuana is NOT harmful but actually beneficial because it's natural and has been actually shown to ease ailments. Obviously, you disagree with that view. Would it be fair for Pot Smokers of America to rally their troops behind this and suddenly want to legalize marijuana? If you allow one group to do so, you will have to allow ALL groups to do so. Again, where will it end?
I've answered that question 15 million times already. Go back a few pages and check it out.How does two gay people cause harm to ANYBODY? Answer me that
What makes your opinion so much more important than the people actually affected by not being allowed to marry? I still fail to see where you are hindered or harmed by them being married
How are they "affected"?
Let's see how many times you are able to prove your point w/o resorting to double talk and trying to have it both ways.
How is it double talk. Listen to yourself first off. You keep saying that it isn't going to harm you probably never will nor will it hinder you. You keep saying that YOUR viewpoints are obviously better than ours and that it shouldn't be allowed because people who aren't gay don't want it. So I guess if this was some 50 years ago you would say that blacks shouldn't be allowed to share drinking fountains because there has to be a limit somewhere. If you want to compare marijuana to gay marriage then I guess you can compare it with racism. You would be the type of person who would have been for segragation. I have not "double talked" or tried to have it both ways yet. I keep trying to get you to understand this small detail. IT DOES NOT HURT OR IMPEDE YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM...IT MAKES TWO PEOPLE HAPPY AND DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING BESIDES THEY CAN SAY THEY ARE MARRIED. Why should they NOT be allowed. Why do you even have an opinion on the topic if it doesn't affect you? And yes it does affect me, I have friends who are gay and I stand up for my friends. If I disagreed with them I wouldn't. Are you really just a homophobe?
It doesn't and won't.
Show me where I have said something of the sort.You keep saying that YOUR viewpoints are obviously better than ours
I have a standing challenge to you and any supporter of Gay marriages to show ANY way they see as "fair" to find out what the majority of people want. Remember, according to you and everyone else, Gov't is supposed to represent the PEOPLE and not themselves. Therefore, how else are THEY going to represent the people? Come up with a better way of finding out what PEOPLE want and thereby putting a new law into effect, and I'll be happy to agree with you. Until then, it's all a bunch of double talk. You want the "Gov't" to allow something that majority do not approve of, yet admit the "Gov't" is supposed to represent that majority????? Exhibit A: Double talk.and that it shouldn't be allowed because people who aren't gay don't want it.
People can live w/o a marriage license, they can't survive w/o WATER. You're right, that's exactly the same.So I guess if this was some 50 years ago you would say that blacks shouldn't be allowed to share drinking fountains because there has to be a limit somewhere.
Funny, how I've been involved in a bi-racial relationship longer than you've probably been alive, employ 8 different nationalities in my business, coach little league which has kids from all over the world, I have friends from all walks of life, and yet you fill your mouth with something so moronica as that? Just because I don't agree with something you do doesn't make me a Nazi. You're not lilly white anglo either. How bout I make some assumptions about you? Would you like that? Then you better start showing some respect or this could get ugly quick.You would be the type of person who would have been for segragation.
Yes you did. You are contending that it's strictly about "love" and all those warm and fuzzy things, yet that has nothing to do with the stance of the very people you are defending.I have not "double talked" or tried to have it both ways yet.
If it in fact is soooo simple, then why all the hoopla? Noone is making Gay people stop being "gay". Noone is burning down their homes or businesses. Noone is saying they have to ride in the back of the bus. Noone is directly persecuting them or ostracising them by not allowing them to legally marry. So, why all the fuss? Might it be because it's a little MORE complicated than a "simple piece of paper"????? HMMMMMMM.......it seems that makes a complete circle then HUH? Again, you can't have it both ways. You can't say marriage is a simple piece of paper, only to then argue its all important. You can't say what's the big deal, only to then put so much importance on "marriage". Get it? Probably not.I keep trying to get you to understand this small detail. IT DOES NOT HURT OR IMPEDE YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM...IT MAKES TWO PEOPLE HAPPY AND DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING BESIDES THEY CAN SAY THEY ARE MARRIED.
You want a cookie? What, so now only people that know Gays can have an opinion? Only people that are friends with Gay people know what's fair for them? Are you gay? If not, by your justification, then you too shouldn't have an opinion on this either now should you. It doesn't affect you.....Why do you even have an opinion on the topic if it doesn't affect you? And yes it does affect me, I have friends who are gay and I stand up for my friends. If I disagreed with them I wouldn't. Are you really just a homophobe?
BTW, if you wanna take the gloves off and take it to a personal level, I'd be happy to obligue. I'm very transparent. What you see is what you get. You're the second person that's called me something I'm not simply because you can't phathom in your vast array of neurons in your noggin that someone doesn't have to agree with you to respect you. So, I will only ask you once to not call me names unless you want to go personal. If you want to take the gloves off, just let me know. Otherwise, respect me like I'm respecting you and we can debate until the cows come home.
your right my bad you have not said any religious reasons
Val for President
yea but you shouldnt judge them though not all of them are like that.
Val for President
I know that. But literally everyone that I got to be friends with that were Christians did the backstabbing, prejudging shit to me. So I tend to just say fuck em. Later, QD.
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ah ok
Val for President
yea but your just being like those people that judge you
Val for President
Yea I know. Lolol. Later, QD.
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ok........
Val for President
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