Gay Marriage

[FrnkPwrs]

Couldn't EVERYBODY "say" they're "married" in order to get benefits they are otherwise NOT entitled to? What would that do to the costs of all of us that ARE in fact legally married when we go apply for the same benefits? Where do you think the additional costs are gonna be passed on to?

So straight people are incapable of doing this too? Has anyone ever looked at the divorce rate for Gay and Lesbian relationships? Im looking for it online, but I remember it being EXTREMELY low. Like less than 8%. Compare that to the percentage of straight divorces.

Hey, maybe sex with a goat wouldnt end up in divorce, but a goat cant do things like give sexual consent, so that may be one of many reasons its illegal. A 12 year old girl isnt seen as capable of making a decision such as marriage, that is why it requires the consent of her guardian [and hey, it happens].

Polygamy. Yea, some religions find it ok. One is Islam. You can have as many as 4 wives. Some see a problem with that. I dont. Because people leave out the part that says that you must treat each as equals, and you cant even think of doing it unless you are financially and emotionally capable. Its not seen as "Oh, I get to sleep around with different women". Plus its not as common as many think as well. I think thats the problem, with this issue and gay marriage. People cant focus past the gay sex, and sex with multiple woman. There is more to a relationship than kissing and having sex.

BTW, the majority of the arguments stem from MONEY. Benefits this and money that. Do yall realize that anyone can bequeath anything they want to whomever they want NOW? Tax burden aside, IF the big argument is leaving money to a "significant other" IS in fact that big a deal.....why not bequeath it to them then? If you can leave money to your dog, you can leave money to your gay lover too. What's the beef?

But at the same time, why shouldnt two women or men share the same benefit as a man and a woman? Because of their sexual preference? I mean, why not have a man and woman do the same? Then there are some who actually get married for love, and to show commitment to the person they are with, the exact same way a straight couple would. Nobody see anything wrong with denying people the same privelages as others because they are gay? Thats what it boils down to. IF you are gay, you cant do X. Set limits, I agree, but in a different light. Because if we dont set a limit on this soon, soon it will be if you are X you cant do B. I think the convo has had a money focus because we are talking government. The government isnt really known to operate based on emotion, and its hard to translate that into FACT. I mean, when you get married you fill out paperwork, but it has nowhere requesting information on why you love someone, how you met, how much you love the other, what you plan on doing in case of problems. Its a political issue. I dont think "I love this man!" holds up as valid convo because many people find it hard two people of the same sex loving each other [I know I do].

[Hulud]

GOD DAMN

[4dmin]

^ lol

[Hulud]

there i said it, nothings going to happen to me because there is no god to me

i just dont understand why people live their life in fear of what some book says will happen to you. who wrote it? humans. so who says that they (even if they were talking to "god") wrote down what "it" said. humans are not perfect they will not tell the truth, wouldnt they write down what they wanted? More than what something told them? I think that the bible has great points in it and "jesus" was a great person. No one does as the bible says, which is disheartening.

Also with the governemental side of this, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Opening of the declaration of independence. So why can they say who can and cant be married? Also we are not a religious country, we have no official religion and there is separation of church and state right? So where the hell do they get off thinking "we will use religion as an excuse"?

Dont people love others based on the inside anymore? How can you not see how someone would love another person of the same sex? Do you love someone for how they look FrnkPwrs? Just a thought....

[quickdodge®]

^^ Not really. As nasty as you and I may think it is, it doesn't actually mean they have problems. Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

Exactly. Gay people don't bother me because I don't let it. I got more worries than to sit around and worry about what benefits gay people get or why they're gay. It's not my problem. It's not their problem. It's their life. Later, QD.

[Hulud]

yea how can you compare murder and being gay?

[Bishop]

god made adam and eve...not adam and steve

[Bishop]

but i dont give a shit either way...what ever floats your boat

[Hulud]

...

[Mr.Big]

this is for you "god"

Hey man chill out with that shit

[Mr.Big]

All i have to say is the world is fuck up

[Kevykev]

this is for you "god"

You lost all potential respect for that one...

How ignorant of you to post that gesture! How can you call Mr. Big ignorant when you are guilty of the same thing???

i'm not comparing murder to being gay (do not take the superficial perspective). There are people that believe in taking justice into there own hands ie: if you kill my brother, i should legally be able to kill you.

QD, it all boils down to opinion, there are people that are harmed by homosexuality not physically but emotionally! They really are affected by it, Bottom Line!

And when i speak of other issues arising, i mean if gay marriages are legalized it will serve as a gateway for other types of legalization. Does it matter? Not really, what ever will happens will happen.

[Hulud]

i'm not comparing murder to being gay (do not take the superficial perspective). There are people that believe in taking justice into there own hands ie: if you kill my brother, i should legally be able to kill you.

ok well i didnt know what you meant. i thought u meant murder in general.

[Hulud]

You lost all potential respect for that one...

How ignorant of you to post that gesture! How can you call Mr. Big ignorant when you are guilty of the same thing???

i lost all respect for posting my feelings?
i could say the exact same for everyone on this board but i respect everyone and their beliefs even if they differ from mine. so explain please why i am losing YOUR respect for saying that. Is it because you believe in "god"?

[Kevykev]

i lost all respect for posting my feelings?
i could say the exact same for everyone on this board but i respect everyone and their beliefs even if they differ from mine. so explain please why i am losing YOUR respect for saying that. Is it because you believe in "god"?

Damn it, I told myself that i would not debate on the Internet

Anyway your statement is contradictive because you say you have respect everyone's beliefs. However, you say FU to whom they believe in?

And Yes, i believe in God. That's not the only reason why, you're basically denouncing people's religion by sayin FU. Therefore, there is no respect.

See what i'm sayin'?

[Hulud]

Isnt "god" different to everyone?
what i meant was the "god" that pertains to me. Im sorry if you were offended. But im still not being ignorant. So i lost your respect because i denounce something you believe in? Most people on this thread are bashing gays for no reason yet i dont lose any respect for them. Even the ones who said kill them all, its their opinion respect that.
I dont "believe in gays" so its not the same but still.
YOu believe in god thats good for you what ever helps you sleep at night, but its pretty shitty to lose respect for a person because of how they feel, even if it offends you.

[Dragonfly5338]

[QUOTE=Kevykev]

QD, it all boils down to opinion, there are people that are harmed by homosexuality not physically but emotionally! They really are affected by it, Bottom Line!

QUOTE]

How is anyone harmed emotionally by a person being gay? And why should that be a reason to not let them marry, if you can prove how being gay is detrimental to society.

[Jaimecbr900]

You lost all potential respect for that one...

How ignorant of you to post that gesture! How can you call Mr. Big ignorant when you are guilty of the same thing???

i'm not comparing murder to being gay (do not take the superficial perspective). There are people that believe in taking justice into there own hands ie: if you kill my brother, i should legally be able to kill you.

QD, it all boils down to opinion, there are people that are harmed by homosexuality not physically but emotionally! They really are affected by it, Bottom Line!

And when i speak of other issues arising, i mean if gay marriages are legalized it will serve as a gateway for other types of legalization. Does it matter? Not really, what ever will happens will happen.

I'm glad someone can see beyond the obvious.

This is exactly what I was saying and have been saying all along. I said it two pages ago. Noone has yet been able to rebut it because simply saying "let them do what they want in their bedroom" is beyond what the argument and reasoning IS. The argument is not about abolishing or trying to convert GAY people. The argument SHOULD be, now that we have such a crazy and possibly even crazier morphizism of what "marriage" is or should be....someone...anyone SHOULD step up and device a way to DEFINE LEGALLY what a "marriage" is and ISN'T. IF in 10 yrs it is deemed that it needs another re-definition, then do it again to reflect what PEOPLE in that timeframe really want.

As Kev was saying and I've been screaming as long as this debate has been around here, it really doesn't have to be argued ONLY on the religious merits alone. The only argument that perpetually comes from the side that WANTS to change things is "Don't tell me what to do in my bedroom". IT'S NOT ABOUT THAT. It's about LAWS and LEGAL PRECEDENTS. The arguments started NOT because people were saying NOT to be gay. The argument started because gay people wanted the benefits of hetero marriages. That's it. You can paint it any color you want, but that's the only real issue....BENEFITS. If it was truly about sexual preference, then there is NO argument because no where in any law in any state does it say you CAN'T be gay. So that argument is a farce. It is smoke and mirrors.

Again, noone has shown how you're going to later on you'll close the pandorah's door that this may open. I was a little facetious with my analogy of goats and monkeys, but the point was that there has to be a limit to everything. If not, then you'd have all the coo coo's coming out of the woodwork with far fetched ideas of what or who they COULD and SHOULD be allowed to marry that you'd then have to give the same consideration you are forced to give everyone else. How can you tell them they're ideas of marrying their sister or having 15 wives is NOT going to be allowed? Or are you saying it should be a total anarchy free-for-all view on marriage? Then why even bother getting married at all? Again, who do you think is going to absorb the costs of insuring, paying, and giving benefits that are now reserved to legally married couples that suddenly will be afforded to every tom/dick/and harry? You think insurance companies are just gonna suddenly agree to suddenly add monkeys and goats w/o a LAW saying they have to? Then you start over again because you will then have to debate EVERY single "new" idea of what a marriage SHOULD be.

It's a never ending cycle otherwise. Don't yall see that? And none of that has anything to do with religion.

[Kevykev]

Completely agree Jaime!

One thing ALWAYS leads to another.





P.S great discussion, time to go cuddle with the cutie

[Jaimecbr900]

Werd!!! Til tomm when the others wake up and start calling me crazy.....

[Hulud]

how am i being ignorant?
all i said was FU god thats not being ignorant
an asshole..yes but not ignorant

[Kevykev]

Yep the definition of God varies form left to right.

If you said i don't belive in "god" that's one thing, fine and respectful with me since it's your opinion. But you didn't just say that, i recall seeing a figure next to the word "god" two different things.

Don't worry, I didn't get offended man. i just though i should let you here my thoughts on the issue.

[Hulud]

ok thats cool i respect that i realise what i said was pretty shitty actually
sorry for that im gonna edit it out

[Kevykev]

ok thats cool i respect that i realise what i said was pretty shitty actually
sorry for that im gonna edit it out

I'm glad you understand bro.

Hulud Respect History:

-10 for ( "god" ) gesture
+15 for Removal and understanding.

Now we all can go watch the Lifetime channel!

[Hulud]

lol, YES!

[Kevykev]

I really don't feel like proving anything Val, because at the end of the day/night you will continue to have your view and i will continue to have mine.

But i'll leave you with this: Are you harmed emotionally by a 36 year old man having sex with a 14 year old?

If you say "that's disgusting" = Harmed Emotionally *EDIT* Maybe Not Brutally harmed but affected to some degree.

Some people think it's fine beleive it or not. Do you think such acts should be condoned? Some people do.

Now apply that to the topic.


btw add the **[/** to **QOUTE]** to make it official if you feel the need.

[Jaimecbr900]

But i'll leave you with this: Are you harmed emotionally by a 36 year old man having sex with a 14 year old?

If you say "that's disgusting" = Harmed Emotionally *EDIT* Maybe Not Brutally harmed but affected to some degree.

Some people think it's fine beleive it or not. Do you think such acts should be condoned? Some people do.

Now apply that to the topic.

That's the "pandorah's box" I was referring to.

[RandomGuy]

I respect all of your opinions, but in my opinion I think that homosexuality is some type of social/mental disorder. I have no problem w/ gays in general... but they are just "fakes" or trying to mutilate nature to be different. There is NO GAY CHROMOSOME Homosexuality isnt hereditary, its a learned behavior, or disorder I guess kids these days want to rebel and convert?
Lets use the Nissan Skyline as an example. Its a great car, yeah... but to legally have one from motorex nice and pimped out used to be 100k+. You could easily get a better performing car for much lower domestically. What makes the Skyline so much more appealing? You always want what you cant or shouldn't have. Why did people get them? The most appealing things are those that you cant acquire. I think by legalizing gay marriage, it would reduce the gay population in a couple of generations: not that they're harming us in any way. Just for the good of the people, facing the psychological disease.

Personal Experience: I know these are just a select few incidents , but they stuck with me. The few gay people I run into like to let you know they are gay through their actions. They are changing their own natural behaviors to pretend to be something they're not. Now how can you justify that?
In conclusion, I believe homosexuality is 100% learned behavior, more of a social disorder than anything. Gay marriage should be legalized so the ones who are gay right now can live in peace, but to stop the spread of the "Gay disease" in future generations

Just an opinion... no offense

[Jaimecbr900]

I respect all of your opinions, but in my opinion I think that homosexuality is some type of social/mental disorder. I have no problem w/ gays in general... but they are just "fakes" or trying to mutilate nature to be different. There is NO GAY CHROMOSOME Homosexuality isnt hereditary, its a learned behavior, or disorder I guess kids these days want to rebel and convert?

I agree to big extent with your statement. I believe you are the first to put that on the table.

[quickdodge®]

Ok. I still think that homosexuality is what you make it. If you let it bother you, then it will. If you go on about your life and not worry about it, then there's no harm to you. Emotionally, there is no harm. Just because I think it may be disgusting is not harming me emotionally.

That's all I'm saying, still. Let them do them. You do you, Kevy Kev. And you do your cutie, lolol. Later, QD.

[Kevykev]

Emotionally, there is no harm. Just because I think it may be disgusting is not harming me emotionally.

It better not harm you emotionally.

*Shavio's case harmed (hurt) lots of people emotionally.


*just used it as an example not even remotely trying to bring that discussion back.

[blacknightteg]

ok, here's my opinion on this shit, if your gay your gay, you cant help it, you were BORN that way, im sorry but thats wat i think, i mean yeah you can maybe choose to be gay, but i highly doubt anyone actually has done that, your born with it like that, its a fucked up gene in your DNA in my opinion, but neways, i mean if you wana get married and you are gay, there is nothing wrong with that, its two people that love each other, whehter your gay or straight, as long as you love the 2 people love each other then there should be no right or wrong in the situation.....and i doubt being gay is a sin, because if there born with it, then that means there automatically doomed to hell when they are born

[Jaimecbr900]

ok, here's my opinion on this shit, if your gay your gay, you cant help it, you were BORN that way, im sorry but thats wat i think, i mean yeah you can maybe choose to be gay, but i highly doubt anyone actually has done that, your born with it like that, its a fucked up gene in your DNA in my opinion, but neways

You're contradicting yourself. You can't be "born" and ALSO have a "choice" to "be" anything. Sorry. You are either one or the other, but not both.

.and i doubt being gay is a sin, because if there born with it, then that means there automatically doomed to hell when they are born

I've tried very hard to maintain this side of the argument W/O using religion, but for some reason everyone wants to sway that way. So I'll bite.

You are absolutely, 100000% WRONG. Read the Bible. ANY Bible. It clearly says it IS a SIN to be a homosexual. If the site had not gone down, you could go easily search and find the numerous quotes from the bible I've quoted to prove this point. I'm not going to again because I don't think when you are discussing this issue we should only have the "religion" platform.

If religion was the only platform, the liberal side of this equation would've NEVER had a leg to stand to begin with because there is no religion on the face of the earth that ENDORSES homosexuality. In other words, if religion was the ONLY litmus test for this debate the homosexual side would fail the test everytime because it would have nothing to argue back with.

[Hulud]

o so its ok because god will forgive you? is that what your saying?

[Hulud]

sin some more...

anyways http://www.aegis.com/topics/timeline/ check that if you want to through in internet sources... Gay men in the US and Sweden -- and heterosexuals in Tanzania and Haiti -- begin showing signs of what will later be called AIDS.

[Hulud]

i dont see how people can use religion as a basis for any argument because it will get both peopel no where. you can't prove or disprove religion

[Jaimecbr900]

i dont see how people can use religion as a basis for any argument because it will get both peopel no where. you can't prove or disprove religion

Well, ironically enough I do agree with you to an extent although you can technically "prove" religion because the definition is a BELIEF in something greater than themselves. There are a bizillion people that fit that definition to a tee, so religion COULD technically be proven. But I do get your jist, I think you meant to say something else. Faith is a little more harder to prove because it's not as tangible.

Be that as it may, you are correct in the message. This argument could never be argued on religious merit alone for the reason I stated earlier. It's VERY black and white in EVERY religion what they unanimously believe in regards to homosexuality. So it'd be no argument to make, no way to rebutt it.

[RandomGuy]

1 more thing i want to add to the mix....
This is real life info... not textbook. I know in the books there isn't any link with AIDs and homosexuality. da da da.... etc
My cousin is doing his residency all around GA right now. He was working in some hospital in GA working with infectious diseases or something. I kid you not he told me word for word...over 90% of the AIDs patients there were male homosexual african-americans. There may be some link? Maybe the demographic region? He later on said that most of the AIDs patients he worked with throughout the nation had some link to homosexuality. This is by NO means an alternative to scientific research ... but it sure raises eyebrows. There may be a link? So that one dude's statement... although grammatically retarded... may even possibly be true.

[quickdodge®]

I honestly can't say whether or not being gay is a choice or something you are born with.I can't state, as fact, something that I don't know myself. I do NOT think that there is a mental disorder in your "choice." I don't have anything to do with the bible, but if I remember correctly, aren't we all born into sin in the first place? Later, QD.