Obama won, now what?

[Lucky DAWG]

Did you read his book yourself or did you just read Ann Coulter's review? Because Ann Coulter is about as credibile a source as a shetland pony on meth.

i've read parts, not start to finish... he gets pretty worked up on it, dark aspects you don't want to see coming out from a presidential candidate.


I don't want to see some one in power though who is going to make even more social programs that we can't afford especially right now. I wait for the day of fair tax and no affirmitive action.

[Total_Blender]

I don't want to see some one in power though who is going to make even more social programs that we can't afford especially right now. .

As opposed to someone who creates social programs and doesn't fund them (No Child Left Behind, anyone?)

Don't even get me started on the "Fair" Tax...... it will create more problems than it will solve.

[Nerdsrock22]

name 1.

[Lucky DAWG]

As opposed to someone who creates social programs and doesn't fund them (No Child Left Behind, anyone?)

Don't even get me started on the "Fair" Tax...... it will create more problems than it will solve.

you mean by boosting the economy and creating jobs that everyone moans about there is a lack of?



federal funding for education has increased by time and a half, so i don't know where the first part came from.

[Total_Blender]

you mean by boosting the economy and creating jobs that everyone moans about there is a lack of?.

Well you are right on one part... it will create jobs. The conservatives complain about how the IRS is a huge beauraucracy. Well the IRS sends checks once a year (and those stimulus packages every now and then). Imagine the further beauraucracy needed to send out checks once a month to all Americans below the poverty line as the proponents of the Fair Tax suggest.

Also, I thought it was the goal of the conservatives to get poor people off of monthly government checks... now they want to put all poor people on them. What gives?

And Ann Coulter should give up writing/speaking and pose for Hustler magazine while she is still somewhat attractive. Note that I said Hustler, because Playboy expects their models to have at least a little class.

[.::UNKNOWN::.]

Well you are right on one part... it will create jobs. The conservatives complain about how the IRS is a huge beauraucracy. Well the IRS sends checks once a year (and those stimulus packages every now and then). Imagine the further beauraucracy needed to send out checks once a month to all Americans below the poverty line as the proponents of the Fair Tax suggest.

the fair tax also will abolish the irs and april 15th.... the monthly check will be like getting your tax refund for the whole year split up into 12 months.... the fair tax will also give you the option to support things if you want by buying new goods and not support things by not buying anything.... so in other words you don't want to fund the war go under the radar grow your own food, don't buy anything make your clothes and the government will not get any tax money from you..... the current tax code is so complicated it isn't funny..the repulicans aren't complaining fair tax supporters can't get a republican to even consider the bill except one mike huckabee that is why i am a libertarian bob barr 08... and hey i would like all of my paycheck to do what i want with it, if i sell a house i don't want to pay capital gains taxes on the profit(which they are the lowest they have been in years), if i save for retirement in a 401k i don't want to pay taxes on that when i recive it..... like i say all the time to each his own

[Total_Blender]

and hey i would like all of my paycheck to do what i want with it,

Have fun paying 30% more for goods and services. And I really doubt most people in America are capable of growing their own food anymore. I've tried that before and its hard work, not to mention you have to own land to grow food on.

And Bob Barr? Is that some kinda joke? I'd vote for Gary Coleman before I'd vote for him. Hey..... is Gary Coleman running this year? He was a serious contender is the California Governor's race last year

[Jaimecbr900]

Well you are right on one part... it will create jobs.

What exactly is the down side to this? You should re-think your retorts a little better next time.

Let me show you why......

The conservatives complain about how the IRS is a huge beauraucracy.

This sentence shows two things about you: 1. You're a tree hugging liberal, and 2. If you want to be taken seriously in any debate, you should use that tool called "spell check".

Well the IRS sends checks once a year (and those stimulus packages every now and then). Imagine the further beauraucracy needed to send out checks once a month to all Americans below the poverty line as the proponents of the Fair Tax suggest.

First of all, just WHERE do you suppose those good ole' "once-a-year" checks come from????? Let me give you a hint.......it's called a REFUND for a reason. Dur, durrrrr...... It's money that you've OVER paid. It's NOT "free" money. It's giving you back a PORTION of what YOU have paid AHEAD OF TIME, ABOVE AND BEYOND what you were "supposed" to. Follow that? Probably not. Well then keep thinking that the IRS just "gives out" all those checks once-a-year.

Second, how many checks do you think that "Americans below poverty levels" get NOW????? You sir have no clue how things actually work. It sounds to me like you've been indoctrinated rather well into the Democratic way of life.

Also, I thought it was the goal of the conservatives to get poor people off of monthly government checks... now they want to put all poor people on them. What gives?

Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. Those "Conservatives" you incorrectly quote probably want people to stand on their own two feet rather than ask for hand-outs from good ole' Uncle Sam. Yet again, I fail to see the "down" side to this thought process.

Why do you keep repeating the same old tired war cry of "poor people are going to suffer"? I'll tell you what......explain exactly HOW those "poor people" are going to suffer? I challenge YOU to come up with YOUR own thoughts on just HOW the Fair Tax is going to make people who PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES NOW pay any more than they are already paying......which again is LITTLE TO NOTHING. Let's see how YOU answer that.

Before you spew out incorrect information again, educate yourself better about what you're trying to put down. You sound exactly like that Texas Senator that looked like a deer caught in headlights when he was asked to name ONE of Obama's accomplishments on National TV. I bet you've not even read the Fair Tax book, have you?

[Lucky DAWG]

What exactly is the down side to this? You should re-think your retorts a little better next time.

Let me show you why......




This sentence shows two things about you: 1. You're a tree hugging liberal, and 2. If you want to be taken seriously in any debate, you should use that tool called "spell check".



First of all, just WHERE do you suppose those good ole' "once-a-year" checks come from????? Let me give you a hint.......it's called a REFUND for a reason. Dur, durrrrr...... It's money that you've OVER paid. It's NOT "free" money. It's giving you back a PORTION of what YOU have paid AHEAD OF TIME, ABOVE AND BEYOND what you were "supposed" to. Follow that? Probably not. Well then keep thinking that the IRS just "gives out" all those checks once-a-year.

Second, how many checks do you think that "Americans below poverty levels" get NOW????? You sir have no clue how things actually work. It sounds to me like you've been indoctrinated rather well into the Democratic way of life.



Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. Those "Conservatives" you incorrectly quote probably want people to stand on their own two feet rather than ask for hand-outs from good ole' Uncle Sam. Yet again, I fail to see the "down" side to this thought process.

Why do you keep repeating the same old tired war cry of "poor people are going to suffer"? I'll tell you what......explain exactly HOW those "poor people" are going to suffer? I challenge YOU to come up with YOUR own thoughts on just HOW the Fair Tax is going to make people who PAY LITTLE TO NO TAXES NOW pay any more than they are already paying......which again is LITTLE TO NOTHING. Let's see how YOU answer that.

Before you spew out incorrect information again, educate yourself better about what you're trying to put down. You sound exactly like that Texas Senator that looked like a deer caught in headlights when he was asked to name ONE of Obama's accomplishments on National TV. I bet you've not even read the Fair Tax book, have you?

Jamie....... I heart you.


i could not have said it better, its hard to find conservative allies on this website, not to mention liberals are very prone to watching the news and instantly believing it.

[BobbyFresco]

This thread is a small example of how and why America is in such a state of separation....


And I'm also amazed by how some people, who deem themselves to be so supremely intelligent than others with their never ending condescending attitudes, can't express their views without insults.....

[Total_Blender]

First of all, just WHERE do you suppose those good ole' "once-a-year" checks come from????? Let me give you a hint.......it's called a REFUND for a reason. Dur, durrrrr...... It's money that you've OVER paid. It's NOT "free" money. ?

I never said it was free money, I just said that the IRS sends checks (meaning refund checks) out once a year. If what ever "Fair Tax" organization takes over sending out the "refund" checks to those below the poverty line once a month, that would create a larger bureaucracy than the IRS would it not? Big Brother micromanaging the finances of the poor.

Second, how many checks do you think that "Americans below poverty levels" get NOW????? You sir have no clue how things actually work. It sounds to me like you've been indoctrinated rather well into the Democratic way of life. ?

People on Welfare are getting state checks, and conservatives are all in a tizzy about that, for reasons you explain here:

Those "Conservatives" you incorrectly quote probably want people to stand on their own two feet rather than ask for hand-outs

So how can you have it both ways... monthly aid for the poor is bad on a state level and good on a federal level?

And the fair tax will hurt working class Americans who spend the majority of their income on goods and services. Not everyone is able to have savings and capital gains. When people are paying 30% more just to get by, those who invest and save the majority of their income will have a massive windfall.

Businesses will not be taxed on their purchases, but they will have to pay taxes on the health insurance and other benefits for their employees. And since people will be disposed not to buy new goods to avoid the tax, sellers will probably have to produce at lower volumes, which will increase price.

So the "fair tax" will actually be regressive on income. And you may say that the fair tax will encourage the re-use and resale of used goods (which will not be taxed) but the inherent value of used goods includes the taxes charged upon their purchase. It seems to me like the fair tax would stimulate underground markets where people produce and sell on the sly to evade taxation.

And it is also said that the fair tax will effectively tax illegal immigrants. So now every illegal immigrant who goes into Quik Trip and buys a cup of coffee is an American taxpayer. Would it not be reasonable then, that they recieve the same services from the government as other taxpayers?

And requiring businesses to keep records of all transactions for 6 years, have a seller's certificate, etc etc.... what business has the space and time to bother with all that?

I don't see how the fair tax would be a positive change really, its still just the government taking our money.... I have not read the book, but I have read articles both for and against from a variety of sources.

[Jaimecbr900]

I never said it was free money, I just said that the IRS sends checks (meaning refund checks) out once a year. If what ever "Fair Tax" organization takes over sending out the "refund" checks to those below the poverty line once a month, that would create a larger bureaucracy than the IRS would it not? Big Brother micromanaging the finances of the poor.

See, you just don't get it. So you are basically saying that some entity would have to be formed to send out "checks" and that entity will be larger in size than the IRS, which BTW employs more than 100,000 people NOW? Is that what you're saying? Because if it is, you're obviously not taking into consideration that out of the 100K+ people employeed by the IRS NOW, only a small portion of those 100K+ are employed to "cut" checks NOW. So if say it takes 10,000 people to cut a bizillion checks each year, why couldn't we have the same amount of people cut a bizillion checks next year? Using your logic, we would need a million people to cut a million checks. Why would we? Do you realize that the IRS has MORE Investigative Agents, ie. the guys in the dark suits whose only purpose is to crawl up your rear end whenever they deem necessary, than the EPA, OSHA, and DEA.....yes, the D.E.A.....combined???? Regular Law Enforcement and Constitutional LAWS do not apply to the IRS. For example, virtually all laws pertaining to search and seizure, jury trial, and due process do NOT apply to the IRS. And this is the same system YOU people want to just leave alone and let be?????

People on Welfare are getting state checks, and conservatives are all in a tizzy about that, for reasons you explain here:


So how can you have it both ways... monthly aid for the poor is bad on a state level and good on a federal level?

Once again you're merely perpetuating the same old myth that welfare recipients are just poor old destitute ghetto dwellers. Do you realize just how much FRAUD and ABUSE is being sucked out of Social welfare programs each and every day? Some studies have placed FRAUD as high as 30% or more. Which means that one out of every 3 people getting some sort of "public assistance" are getting it fraudulently. Which then begs the question.....if they are getting it by committing fraud, just WHO is paying for those people that are getting those "benefits"? People who PAY TAXES is the WHO.

In other words, you have people who are on public assistance for years....getting money, benefits, food stamps, healthcare, medicines, etc. at tax payers expense who do NOT PAY a dime INTO the system. How do I know they are NOT PAYING into the system? Because either A: the program they're getting benefits from doesn't pay IF they are gainfully employed, or B: They get MORE from those programs than if they did work, so they figure why bother, or C: They double dip and work for cash under the table. That's the reality of a large portion of our "welfare" system.

So all these same exact people that right NOW don't pay INTO the system, yet suck it dry......would then be paying atleast marginally into that same system due to the fact that people have to buy something sometime. When they do, they pay their share into the system. Same thing with illegal aliens, which BTW there is more than just Mexicans in that category . You no longer have to worry about paying people under the table. It becomes a moot point. Pay everyone what they've earned. You earn $100 for selling widgets, then you get the WHOLE $100 and then YOU decide how and when to spend it. Again, what is so wrong with that?

And the fair tax will hurt working class Americans who spend the majority of their income on goods and services. Not everyone is able to have savings and capital gains. When people are paying 30% more just to get by, those who invest and save the majority of their income will have a massive windfall.

Again, you don't get it. Please go read the book and then opinionate about this.

That same "once a month" check you were arguing about earlier is designed to pay for basic necessities based on your family size for such essentials as FOOD. So you get to KEEP YOUR ENTIRE PAYCHECK, get another check once a month to subsidize your bare essentials which is what "welfare" was designed to do after all, and you only pay WHEN and IF you buy other goods and services which let's YOU determine just how much YOU save and how much YOU don't.

Also, people won't be paying "30% MORE" of anything. You need to read the book, seriously. Just how much MORE do we pay now in order for the manufacturer, distributor, and finally the merchant to cover their EMPLOYEE and PAYROLL costs? It's called an embedded tax. In other words, if as a company you no longer had to PAY for FICA, Unemployment, Payroll taxes, Payroll services, etc.....how much LESS could you then be able to sell your widget for????? A TON. People don't realize just how expensive having a legit Payroll for your company is. It inflates your overhead unbelievably.

Why not instead of clouding market competition with overhead costs we let merchants compete on a level playing field. With the Fair Tax in place, mom and pop shops could now compete with bigger conglomerates because they wouldn't have the employment taxes and burdens putting them out of the market anymore, which in turn means what it always means when you let free market determine the price of any good or service.......lower pricing. This is how "embedded taxes" work and manipulate what we pay for everything TODAY. So you won't be paying "30% MORE" for anything, you'll just be paying 30% period.

Look at it this way: Take out your last paystub from last year. Look at the TOTAL amount YOU paid for income taxes. Let's use a round number just for giggles of $10k. Would you be so upset if you GOT TO KEEP that $10k and instead of paying $3 for a gallon of milk, you now had to pay $3.50???? Let's see, you get $10K more for doing nothing different and since you'd get a subsidy check for that $3.50 jug of milk YOU wouldn't pay for that either. So it's a win-win situation in my book. Do you see it differently?

So the "fair tax" will actually be regressive on income. And you may say that the fair tax will encourage the re-use and resale of used goods (which will not be taxed) but the inherent value of used goods includes the taxes charged upon their purchase. It seems to me like the fair tax would stimulate underground markets where people produce and sell on the sly to evade taxation.

Which is different than what we have NOW how????? Think about it....how many people do YOU know that cheat on their income taxes?

It is human nature to try and get something for nothing. That will never change.

And it is also said that the fair tax will effectively tax illegal immigrants. So now every illegal immigrant who goes into Quik Trip and buys a cup of coffee is an American taxpayer. Would it not be reasonable then, that they recieve the same services from the government as other taxpayers?

No, because there is no tax code or law that forgives ILLEGAL activity. So if you're here ILLEGALLY, merely "paying" taxes doesn't change the legality of your being here.

BTW, if you think for a minute that illegals are NOT getting free goods and services NOW.......I got a bridge I want to sell you.

And requiring businesses to keep records of all transactions for 6 years, have a seller's certificate, etc etc.... what business has the space and time to bother with all that?

I'm required now to keep every single transaction I make for the last 5 yrs. It would only mean 1 more year to me. I'm sure I'm not in the minority in this. Many businesses, due to regulations, are required to keep extensive long term records. No biggie. Nature of the beast.

I don't see how the fair tax would be a positive change really, its still just the government taking our money.... I have not read the book, but I have read articles both for and against from a variety of sources.

Go read the whole book, seriously. Remember that some of the biggest proponents of the Fair Tax are the very people who's jobs would suddenly become expendable or no longer needed.