i hope bush rots in hell

[lemansz]

I'm new here, so I'm just going to ask a couple of quick questions.

1) Since we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, have we experienced any terrorist attacks on our home soil?
......................................


6) In the end history will judge us by our actions. Time will tell if what we did was right or not, not the 7 o'clock news and the liberal media. Nation building is a long term thing. Look how long it took us to get Japan and Germany back on their feet. Heck, look out how many US servicemen were killed there after the war was over (its a far larger number than Iraq, fyi).

BOOM!

well put, damn well put.

[Big Baller]

Very very well put.

[Dragonfly5338]

um, hello, you need to wake up. take a trip around the world. Long before any of these invasions, muslims and other religions, are born and bred to do one thing.

hate americans.
find americans
kill americans.

Did you know that over 1/3 of the attacks in iraq right now are caused by other nationalities?

sirians, iranians, afganies, etc.

they are travelign to where ever americans are and fighting them.

It is much easier for them to fight us because we are in their neighborhood.

guess what happenes when we leave their neighborhood?

They come to OUR neighborhood.


Americans so easily believe the LIBERAL press. No one really knows whats going on over there but the military.

*sigh*

People like you are where ignorance starts. MUSLIM PEOPLE ARE NOT BRED TO HATE WESTERNERS AND/OR AMERICANS. We bring that reputation apon ourselves. Why do you think countries hate us??? Because many of them are proud of their culture and dislike western influence - they want things the way they have always been. And BOOM - here we come with our guns and our tanks saying "Sorry. You have to change. Democracy or die. Because we said so, and our guns our bigger." So they fight back, doing what they can to offer resistance, maybe even yes - resorting to terrorism as a protest. THEN AGAIN - think about how you would react if somebody told you "NOPE - you can't practice Christianity anymore, it's wrong - our way is right. And we'll shoot you if you don't." Hmm.. wait, gosh, that's been a theme throughout human history - hasn't it?

The Islamic faith is tied to their government. This is where people get confused easily, since ours is completely seperate. What do you think would happen to this country if the right-wing militant christian brigade took control of our government too. It would be the same situation. Since they are a slim minority, they have to use fear tactics in order to hold power.

By the way - what "other faiths" are "bred to hate americans, find americans, kill americans"? You seriously need to take a class on world religions. You have no idea what they're about.

[Big Baller]

Oh yes, Lemanz you should go take a class at a "liberal" arts college on world religion. That would really change your views. (This was sarcasim in case it was lost on anyone)


Val, do you actually think that we go running into these countries with guns blazing just for the sake of democracy, if you do then I'm sorry maybe you are the one that should be continuing their education.

Matt

[Dragonfly5338]

Oh yes, Lemanz you should go take a class at a "liberal" arts college on world religion. That would really change your views.


Val, do you actually think that we go running into these countries with guns blazing just for the sake of democracy, if you do then I'm sorry maybe you are the one that should be continuing their education.

Matt

LoL, you're missing the point. It was a made up example. I'm talking about religion and the dude saying Islam and other faiths are bred to kill Americans. :p

I don't care about Bush anyways. He's an idiot. I've already stated that, no need to reiterate.

The dude has no idea what Islam - or any other faith, for that matter- is about, even a liberal class would help.

[lemansz]

val val val

go back to sewing, and reproducing.

leave the thinking and voting to others.

[Dragonfly5338]

val val val

go back to sewing, and reproducing.

leave the thinking and voting to others.

LOL aren't you cute? Nice trying to piss me off, tho. Stupid people don't make me angry. I just pity them.

[Big Baller]

Shhhhh

Tell her to bake you a pie.

[Dragonfly5338]

I give up.

[Big Baller]

I won

[Dragonfly5338]

LOL grats. At least I didn't lose to the "fuck dem arabs" moron. Props.

[Desdicado]

Arabs and Persians are no different thank Yankees and Southerners, or Germans and French.

They're just people.

What has happened though is a perfect example of what happens when xenophobes get a hold of certain parts of a religion and meld it to their own means. Extremists can do to Christianity the exact same thing they did to Islam. In fact, if you review world history, pretty much every religion, at one point or another, has been under the control of their respective hard liners and used as a tool for ill. Thats the nature of human beings. My uncle is a muslim (Persian), and he's killed far fewer people than some of the members of the otherside of my family (Hard line Irish Catholics straight out of Derry). Heck, at one point Derry and Belfast were just as bad as Baghdad Tikrit, maybe even worse (right after the Easter Uprising or later on BLoody Sunday). Nobody judges all Catholics (or even all Irish) by the actions of the Unionists and Republicans, I can extend the same respect to other people's and religions.

Judge not the group, but the individuals.

[Dragonfly5338]

Arabs and Persians are no different thank Yankees and Southerners, or Germans and French.

They're just people.

What has happened though is a perfect example of what happens when xenophobes get a hold of certain parts of a religion and meld it to their own means. Extremists can do to Christianity the exact same thing they did to Islam. In fact, if you review world history, pretty much every religion, at one point or another, has been under the control of their respective hard liners and used as a tool for ill. Thats the nature of human beings. My uncle is a muslim (Persian), and he's killed far fewer people than some of the members of the otherside of my family (Hard line Irish Catholics straight out of Derry). Heck, at one point Derry and Belfast were just as bad as Baghdad Tikrit, maybe even worse (right after the Easter Uprising or later on BLoody Sunday). Nobody judges all Catholics (or even all Irish) by the actions of the Unionists and Republicans, I can extend the same respect to other people's and religions.

Judge not the group, but the individuals.

x2 man. +1 for you.

[quickdodge®]

Long before any of these invasions, muslims and other religions, are born and bred to do one thing.

hate americans.
find americans
kill americans.

You must be stupid.

Too bad there isn't a group out there that is born and bred to:

hate you.
find you
kill you.

Later, QD.

[quickdodge®]

leave the thinking and voting to others.

You know of anyone? Later, QD.

[Brett]

I personally agree 100% with what we are doing in IRAQ. I get so sick of dumb ass people who dont do any research before making statements. The "We are there for the oil" line gets old so damn quick. We have yet to take any of thier oil, and we have made it quite clear to the arab world that we will not take the oil, us taking the oil would cause more shit then we already have on us now. As far as the war look at it this way, Al Quida brought the war to the U.S in 1991/92 ( Sorry cant remember what year it was ) when the World Trade Center was bombed. The whole idea of that day was to bring one tower down and by doing that, he was hoping it would hit the 2nd tower and bring them both down, and when he was arrested he was quoted as saying "We will be back, and next time we will do it right"......

Fast foward to the late '90's when our Navy ship was hit by a suicide bomber killing a dozen or more of our service man, at the time Clinton was in office, and he did little to nothing to go after Bin Laden and Al Quida.... and this is when they hit one of our navy warships. Instead he sent the message to Al Quida that the U.S will take it and not do shit.

2001... We all know all to well what happened.... But this time we had a President that had the balls to go after Al Quida and hit them full force. And put Bin Laden on the run, and we have managed to greatly weaken thier organization.....

Now as far as IRAQ goes, There are a few pro's to what we are doing over there. First.... As it was said earlier... We give the IRAQ people thier freedom, and as they get more and more of a taste for it, the people ( As they are now ) will get sick of the innsurgants killing the troops and innoscent people there, and they will stand up and retake what is due to them, and that is THIER FREEDOM. Once they get a taste of it, other middle eastern countries will want it to. It is cruscial to the future of this country and every democratic country that the middle east gets this taste and makes the changes. Al Quida is on the run and they have few supporters now and the attacks we see there now are desperate attempts to discourage the new free life they have. By us going to IRAQ we have brought the "War" to Al Quida and its supporters instead of Al Quida being able to bring the war back to U.S soil.

Did Saddam have WMD's when we finally got in there this time and took him out, No... But the man had fucking 11 years without weapons inspectors to get his stuff out, and most likley moved it to Iran. The proof is there people that he had them at one time, he used them on his own people!! Used nerve gas and killed tens of thousands of people just because they did not agree with him. IRAQ stood for EVERYTHING bad in humanity. ( The government not its people ). He killed tens of thousands of his own people, buried them in mass graves, DID use WMD's ( And if he would use them on his own people, do you really think he would not sell them, or did not sell them to Al Quida to use against the U.S or U.S interests? ) You people seem to not see the big picture here, Yu all think just because the weapons where not there when we arrived that he didnt have them, and that IRAQ and its government was not a major threat to the U.S. He supported terrorism, so you can bet he sold WMDs to them as well. With them being on the border if IRAN you have terrorists moving between countries training and moving supplies that can be used to hit U.S targets and hit U.S interests.

Us being there is giving greater security to us and the region then we have ever seen. YES our troops are dying, and any one troop that looses a life is one to many, but almost 4,000 people died the day this country was attacked in 2001, and these people did nothing wrong except one thing in the eyes of Al Quida, and that is... They where American, and for that, they needed to die.

So fuck yeah we did the right thing to bring the war to them, because for every roadside bomb you hear about is one less bomb you would fear being planted on our own soil. The troops are training the IRAQ people to defend themselves and thier country, and when that is done we will pull out. But this is crucial that they get thier freedom and then the rest of the middle east gets the same....... Less places then for terrorists to hide and train, and plot.

But make no mistake, some of the comments in this thread are down right dumb as fuck!! Like the one that said "Muslims are bred to hate the U.S" that is the stupidest statement I have ever heard.... Do you know anything about Muslims? They are a religion that is a peaceful religion and the Quran preaches peace, The muslims that Al Quida have, etc... are MUSLIM EXTREMEST, they are not a part of the true muslim world, and they have twisted the words of the Quran to fit what they see fit and use that to teach thier followers the hatred that they have for us and all western society. Its not only us they hate, its what we stand for, the freedom and democracy. Dont put all muslims and Arabs into that theory.

[Ex_Vtec_Girl]

damn brett

[Brett]

Wait for Jaimies reply, He started his at 11:53 and its still not posted...LOL. His will be a fucking novel im sure...LOL

[Ex_Vtec_Girl]

oh, i just skimmed yours...i'm too lazy & too tired to read all that, but what i got out of it was very well said

[Brett]

Damn Jaimie, Its been over 15 minutes of you replying, so where is your reply? You dont need to make this 10 pages long brotha!! HA HA HA

[Jaimecbr900]

Is there a reason why yall biotches didn't tell me about this discussion?????

There have been some very intelligent remarks made in a topic that actually was started as an understandable rant from a broken hearted young lady.

Here's my as I always have to say:

1. People incorrectly combine the chase for Ossamah and the Iraq war together. Their only connection is the fact that they are occuring concurrently and in the same region of the world.

2. If we pull out prematurely, Iraq will implode. Right now they are not strong enough to defend themselves. The total rebuild of a country can't happen overnight. It doesn't work that way. Bush is on TV justifying it still because it's POLITICS, ie. PR and necessary because of all the misinformed people out there. This thread is a very good micro sample of how the public perceives everything. Many people buy the whole media liberalism. Hook, line, and sinker. Even if it clearly doesn't make sense. Why do you think that the moniker of "war for oil" has gone by the wayside? Cause it turned out to be stupid now. That's all you used to hear about, "war for oil, war for oil, war for oil".

The same way pulling out our troops prematurely would be like letting grass grow on it's own. Eventually weeds will come back if you don't keep picking them out. Well, right now Iraq can't weed on their own just yet. If we leave, the weeds will quickly take over much in the same way Saddam did years ago....thru scare tactics via a coop. It will be like declaring Anarchy. Who do yall think is the strongest? Terrorists that are well funded, trained, and totally dedicated to their cause or freshly liberated newbies who are still looking over their shoulder because they can't believe that Saddam is TRULY gone????

[Jaimecbr900]

Damn Jaimie, Its been over 15 minutes of you replying, so where is your reply? You dont need to make this 10 pages long brotha!! HA HA HA

I got started and then had to edit a few times. Just when I thought I was done, I hit the wrong button and freaking erased everything.

I had a good one about 15 mins ago.....what I ended up posting was pretty watered down.

[LaurenK]

you hope bush rots in hell? isn't that statement a little strong??? i understand you're upset because you lost somebody over there...a lot of people in this country have, but i think you're being a little harsh. god only knows what the hell would have happened in this country if we wouldn't have gone over there. bush is doing what he thinks is right & he obviously has good reasons for it or we wouldn't still be there. just my

AGREE...

[4dmin]

Is there a reason why yall biotches didn't tell me about this discussion?????

There have been some very intelligent remarks made in a topic that actually was started as an understandable rant from a broken hearted young lady.

Here's my as I always have to say:

1. People incorrectly combine the chase for Ossamah and the Iraq war together. Their only connection is the fact that they are occuring concurrently and in the same region of the world.

2. If we pull out prematurely, Iraq will implode. Right now they are not strong enough to defend themselves. The total rebuild of a country can't happen overnight. It doesn't work that way. Bush is on TV justifying it still because it's POLITICS, ie. PR and necessary because of all the misinformed people out there. This thread is a very good micro sample of how the public perceives everything. Many people buy the whole media liberalism. Hook, line, and sinker. Even if it clearly doesn't make sense. Why do you think that the moniker of "war for oil" has gone by the wayside? Cause it turned out to be stupid now. That's all you used to hear about, "war for oil, war for oil, war for oil".

The same way pulling out our troops prematurely would be like letting grass grow on it's own. Eventually weeds will come back if you don't keep picking them out. Well, right now Iraq can't weed on their own just yet. If we leave, the weeds will quickly take over much in the same way Saddam did years ago....thru scare tactics via a coop. It will be like declaring Anarchy. Who do yall think is the strongest? Terrorists that are well funded, trained, and totally dedicated to their cause or freshly liberated newbies who are still looking over their shoulder because they can't believe that Saddam is TRULY gone????

sorry i haven't read this whole thread b/c i'm lazy but....

there is a connection between Osama/Iraq that was the basis that Bush used to get into Iraq. Iraq was supporting/funding terrorism. So w/ that and going against the UN inspectors was the chance for Jr. to pick where Sr. left off.

Of course we can't pull out b/c how would Bush look to the american people if we did that??? This is what keeps him in office; making it seem like we are doing the world a favor. Personally i don't think there will ever be stability in that region. You can't go in and think you can change bibical wars in a few years... not going to happen. Only thing to fix that region is ARMAGEDDON!!! Only a tree huggin hippie can think we are they liberating people(which is fucking BS)... if that was the case then we could of started on this side of the world and worked our way over.

I personally think Bush is an asshole. The only reason he did the PR stunt is b/c his ratings are dropping and people in america are disalusioned(sp?) about the war. Our economy isn't recovering, oil prices are sky high, & its the same ol story "rich get richer the poor get poorer". I support our troops but i do not support their Commander/Chief.

ps. on another note they don't care about our troops anyway, they are the same administration that sent out PHOTOCOPIED letters to dead soldiers family thanking them for the service their children provided. its amazing you don't see any of their children in iraq

[Jaimecbr900]

there is a connection between Osama/Iraq that was the basis that Bush used to get into Iraq. Iraq was supporting/funding terrorism. So w/ that and going against the UN inspectors was the chance for Jr. to pick where Sr. left off.

Absolutely there is a connection, but that's only one reason why we are there. To be honest, you hit the nail right on the head with that statement. On top of that, compound Saddam's direct vocal disdain for the U.S. and you have a big bullseye on the back of his head. It was gonna happen sooner or later. Fidel dodged that bullet, and it's only because Russia fell apart. Had they remained our mortal enemy, Fidel would be the Saddam of today.

Of course we can't pull out b/c how would Bush look to the american people if we did that??? This is what keeps him in office; making it seem like we are doing the world a favor. Personally i don't think there will ever be stability in that region.

You can't leave without some stability. They don't even have a solid working gov't yet, let alone a way to defend themselves against the extremists. We made that mistake already once when we didn't clean up after the Gulf War. This is not the time to do it again when the danger or real terrorism has been brought to this side of the world.

You can't go in and think you can change bibical wars in a few years... not going to happen. Only thing to fix that region is ARMAGEDDON!!! Only a tree huggin hippie can think we are they liberating people(which is fucking BS)... if that was the case then we could of started on this side of the world and worked our way over.

I'm willing to bet that in Iraq's millions of citizens there is far more that WANT liberation and self governing than there are people that don't. Problem is that when you are trying to reverse decades of oppression and fear, it can't happen overnight. It takes years. The Quran does NOT teach anything remotely close to what the extremists are reading into it and teaching. So therefore, this is only a "biblical" war to the extremists. Normal everyday peaceful citizens, of which is the majority, could care less about killing us. The truth is that because a dirty rat like Saddam was in power, it allowed for sewage like terrorist to walk around freely in the countryside w/o any worries simply because they harbored the same hate for the U.S. as HE did.

Kinda like an uneasy truce. He wasn't going to let them take over HIS country per se, but he would simply turn a blind eye to their activities because those activities he agreed with. IMO, that deserves the same punishment as if he had pulled the trigger himself since he indirectly did.

its amazing you don't see any of their children in iraq

None of US are over there either.

[4dmin]

Quote:
its amazing you don't see any of their children in iraq



None of US are over there either.

i refuse to die for someones ego but my own

and by the way if i was in charge i would of gave saddamn a WMD up his ass and taken that shit hole of a country off the map b/c the billions we are spending could of been saved w/ a multimillion $$$ nuke

[Jaimecbr900]

i refuse to die for someones ego but my own

and by the way if i was in charge i would of gave saddamn a WMD up his ass and taken that shit hole of a country off the map b/c the billions we are spending could of been saved w/ a multimillion $$$ nuke

In a way, ironically enough I agree with that....

[Brett]

Would have made a nice parking ot, and example of what the U.S would do if you pissed us off....lol

[4dmin]

^ no shit ask Japan they love us now anyway

[Sledlude]

I think Bush's propaganda machine and the media have been extremely effective at distracting people from whats really important. You ^ mentioned there are "bad" guys over in Iraq who would hurt us if given the opportunity- but look at the facts: Iraq has NO WOMD! The countries we should really be concerned about are gathering munitions together to throw down the US. What about North Korea? They have the technology and capability to create WOMD, and they even admit to having them. Russia- anyone? While people are so caught up with the "war" in Iraq, there are serious threats with actual arms that are rising up against our country....

Agreed... Bush is a retard.

[Ex_Vtec_Girl]

you (meaning people in general, not specifically you) might think he's "a retard", but he's still the president of our country & he will be for a few more years. there's a reason he got that position & a reason he kept it. i'm so tired of hearing everybody bitch about how much they hate bush. if that many people really hated him & what he stands for & believes, then why didn't they go out & vote so he didn't get re-elected? doesn't make much sense to me.

[Sledlude]

I did vote. Kerry sucks too. I think they both pretty much suck. I truly and honestly believe he's taking our country in the wrong direction... were losing lives, fighting a war that seems to be more and more unwinnable every day... for what? taking out sadam didnt do anything to help the osama problem, homeboy is still hiding out in caves. I think the whole war in iraq was supposed to be a big distraction. lots of propaganda. and unfortunately, it seems to be working. thats why he got re-elected.

[Dragonfly5338]

you (meaning people in general, not specifically you) might think he's "a retard", but he's still the president of our country & he will be for a few more years. there's a reason he got that position & a reason he kept it. i'm so tired of hearing everybody bitch about how much they hate bush. if that many people really hated him & what he stands for & believes, then why didn't they go out & vote so he didn't get re-elected? doesn't make much sense to me.

I voted for Kerry too. So I can bitch all I want.

[DreamerTheresa]

Vote Libertarian!



Or elect Theresa dictator. Yeah. I like that one better.

[SaraX5]

I did vote. Kerry sucks too. I think they both pretty much suck. I truly and honestly believe he's taking our country in the wrong direction... were losing lives, fighting a war that seems to be more and more unwinnable every day... for what? taking out sadam didnt do anything to help the osama problem, homeboy is still hiding out in caves. I think the whole war in iraq was supposed to be a big distraction. lots of propaganda. and unfortunately, it seems to be working. thats why he got re-elected.

ditto

[Big Baller]

Someone made mention of the economy earlier in the post. I dont really feel like rereading 10 post just to find out who it was, but.

I would love to know exactly how our economy is in bad shape. Point it out to me, show me.

Matt

[CMO]

Like how people think that we should have just nuked them. Like there is no one around that could nuke us.

[Desdicado]

Like how people think that we should have just nuked them. Like there is no one around that could nuke us.

The fact of the matter is the next country to use Nukes will get nuked by everyone else. It's one fucked up game of Blind Man's Bluff.

[Ex_Vtec_Girl]

Someone made mention of the economy earlier in the post. I dont really feel like rereading 10 post just to find out who it was, but.

I would love to know exactly how our economy is in bad shape. Point it out to me, show me.

Matt

gas is a little on the steep side...that's the only excuse that i keep hearing from people who say our economy is in bad shape. sorry, but i don't consider gas prices the only factor in our economy!

[Desdicado]

gas is a little on the steep side...that's the only excuse that i keep hearing from people who say our economy is in bad shape. sorry, but i don't consider gas prices the only factor in our economy!

Well, they are a contributing factor. With crude oil at record highs transportation and power generation costs go up, then so does everything else thats tied to it.

We'd be a lot better off though if we'd tell the hippies to piss off and build some new refineries.