Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo
I need to run for President or something...... :D ;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo
I need to run for President or something...... :D ;)
yeah man i got you a vote:goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
odd but yet very interesting...so parents dont give a damn about their kids but they want to bitch about everything else...nice:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by fire7882
Excellent point.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire7882
Another thing to consider is competition.
If we were allowed to send our kids to the school that actually TEACHES their students best (i.e. standardized test scores) via a VOUCHER for what we PAY for in property taxes......then the crappy schools would either shape up or close. What is wrong with that? Oh wait, not EVERYONE that attends school PAYS property taxes do they??? Hmmm, well that's a problem for those people then huh.
I could send my kids to the mack daddiest private school just about anywhere if I got a voucher for the amount of property taxes I pay to send them there. THEN when gov't schools empty maybe they'll realize that schools are designed to TEACH and not as pawns in politics.
I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there...... :D ;)
Damn, some of you have fucked up attitude toward society! If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand. If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it? On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't. Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!
This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me, and I wish everyone wanted to do the same.
{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}
i dont think anyones mad at paying more taxes except for the people who want to bitch about not getting enough things, when they dont contribute enough..i dont know if that sentence made any sense but it sounded good coming out of my head while i was thinking itQuote:
Originally Posted by bigdare23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveo
LOL
I feel where the upper class folks coming from, but the big man should want to lend a hand to the falling little man. That's if the little man is will to extend his hand while he help his own self get up.
{I'm sounding all smart and shit :lmfao: }
The bad attitude is not towards society, it is towards leeches. If you don't pay, you don't play. If it were more like that, we would have TONS more in the game. As it is, we are growing dependancy rather than independence. Which is better in your book?Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdare23
Actually this "problem" is created when people base their whole life around what the "gov't" is going to "do" for them and manage it accordingly. When the gov't doesn't give them what they fell entitled to, then they complain.....ala biting the hand that feeds you. What is it that you do to a dog that does that???? :thinking:Quote:
If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand.
Quote:
If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it?
There's nothing wrong with it if it is VOLUNTARY. When it's taken from you forcebly it gets a little annoying. If I GIVE you something and you COMPLAIN about it.......what am I supposed to do? Keep giving or give to someone else?
The tax burden of someone that makes $20k/yr is far less than $5k. Look up the tax brackets and see where $20K lies. It's not 25%. It's not even 10% realistically because how many "services" is that $20K/yr person USING??? I'd be willing to bet plenty more than the few pennies he/she is paying INTO the same system he/she is draining out the other end. This is why SS is going bankrupt and this is why the majority of social services are following that example. Pay out more than you are taking in, and even a short bus rider can tell you that will eventually bleed you dry.Quote:
On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind.
Why is that person making only $20k? Start there as the first step.
Why can't they?Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't.
Wrong. There are far MORE that abuse it, hence there is problems with funding. There are plenty of people that get paid NOT to work. They make MORE from public assistance if they have no job at all than if they had a job and only received PARTIAL benefits.Quote:
Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!
I know of several people, first hand, that receive "benefits" for being disabled when they are perfectly fine to go to work. They work alright, for cash. So they get both hand out and money for working. Since they pay NO TAXES on either, then they technically make more than plenty of others that do work. I know several others that their CHILDREN receive SSI for a bunch of "ailments", yet their parents never paid a dime INTO SSI. How's that work again? Yet, my grandfather worked for over 50 yrs...ran his own business....supported his family......retired.....passed away 2 yrs later from cancer....and now you know how much my grandmother gets from SSI????? $49/mo. Yep, $49, and that's after this year's "increase" :rolleyes: . Why? Because she has a PENSION she worked for and EARNED after 30 yrs teaching snotty nosed kids from toddlers to teenagers. So she gets PENALIZED because she planned ahead. My grandfather PAID THOUSANDS INTO SS, yet he nor my grandmother will EVER get even a fraction of a fraction of that. Yet children of non paying parents GET sometimes thousands of dollars MONTHLY....... :rolleyes:
Don't talk to me about UNFAIR. I KNOW unfair.
That's great, but it is VOLUNTARY and out of your own free will, right??? Would you feel the same way if it was TAKEN from you, and then you saw people squandering it??? Come talk to me after you've been EARNING that 6 figure salary. You will see things differently when it hits YOUR pocket directly.Quote:
This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me
You're right. Me too.Quote:
I wish everyone wanted to do the same.
As long as you consider the source of your figures......go for it.Quote:
{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}
Exactly. It is great to help people who TRY to help themselves. Compassion is one thing, being taken advantage of is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdare23
HEY JAMIMECBR900 sorry for responding so late!
You say your attitude is toward the leeches, but my thing is why punish all for the actions of few? Yeah, there's will always be those "leeches" what about the people that are trying? FUCK THEM TOO, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
I feel you on this, but answer this question for me. Which is better to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
The minority (aka leeches) benefiting because of the majority (aka people trying to the support themselves, but need help), or the majority being punished because of the minority (if you dont understand it I will re-word).
Dont forget it's taken forcefully from everyone. Just think about those people who are just barely making it, that still got to pay taxes too. When u make minimium wage taxes hurt alot more than when you make $100k+.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
Then, If everyone stays in the "same" county, then the money should be divided "equally". If there's 200 schools in the county then the money going toward the schools should be divided by 200. I would COMPLAIN too if a few schools were getting more money than others (just using education as an example).
LOL, I know that (I have a B.S in Mathematics). I was just using that as a comparsion for those that were complaining that the tax rate should be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
I promise you that if they work, then they are paying into SS. You cant get away from paying into that! I been paying to into SS since I was 15. Trust me, if u work u will pay more into SS then what you get back! (Shit you cant get it until you are like 65, and most people die before they reach that age) Yeah some pay more than others. What? You want the person who get paid more to pay the same amount into SS as the person who gets minimum wage? Then we might as well not have SS then. That's selfish to me since more than likely by the age the richer person retires he/she wont need to depend on SS anyways. On there other hand, the person who struggled throughout life wont have a savings to back them up. Why not put money into the pot, so everyone can benefit farther down the road.
1. Easy, they stayed in the hood, where the school wasnt getting the funding like it should of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
2. They had to drop out of school to help take care of the family.
3. They cant afford college
4. They was never told about the opportunities that were out there
5. They was told about the opportunities, but didnt have the resources to get them
6. Slipped up and had a child early (cant blame people for mistakes)
And the list could go on forever...................... but I'm stopping there because the basis is still education. It's like a virus, it must be prevented. If it isnt, it will continue to grow (and wont stop), but how can you prevent something that was already there before you was born. It's hard to break a chain. Some succeed, but most fail. With help, the failure rate will decrease!!!!
Provide it then! We should meet up and goto some shelters and different government agencies (such as DFACS) together. I bet I can prove my side :goodjob:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
Like you said you know people that are beating the system, yet you do nothing about it, but want to complain. There's your tax paying dollars right there! If you was so worry about it you wouldn't be bitching about it on IA when you know people who are wasting your tax dollars. Report there asses and bam that money could be going to some needy family!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
As for your grandparents, honestly with your grandmother pension, do she need SS? If so, I would be mad too, since its there to "help," but if its' more than enough to take care of her and her bills whats the point. Oh, I see just because it there. It could be going to someone who needs it more (I dont want bad blood between us, so this wasnt meant to disrespect your grandparents in anyway).
Last, how can you punish the children for nothing they have done!!! So because there parents arent doing right, they cant eat, have a roof over their head, decent clothes to wear????? Thats just damn wrong!
i know its voluntary (wouldnt the world be better if everyone had some of my characteristics LOL). Honestly, taxes wouldnt matter if I saw what my money was going to. I'm not selfish, I want others to come up with me, not be held down because of me! And when I do make 6 figures my ideas wont chance, promise ya! I turned down a job making $80k in DC (right when I graduated in May 2006), to contiune my education (which is very important to me) so money isn't really that important to me. Yes, I want nice things, but I know if I do good deeds, I will get what I deserve!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
And Last I already feelin the wrath of the government tax (I work for the Department of Interior) and that hasnt change my opinion! It's was good debating with ya!!! You can respond back but I'm done with this for now.
One part missing from the article is what percentage of income to tax rate. Merely claiming 29% of the population pays 42% of the tax is meaningless without their income level or their property value. If that 29% of the population's property is actually worth 70% of the property in the county, who would be arguing? It's the same incomplete argument that the top 50% of earners pay 96% of all taxes.
The redistributive effect of property tax in a county like this for education is just that and not necessarily an example of taxes gone awry although it could be. Education is generally considered a public good. People who have at least a primary school education can generally function in society and join a workforce that is more fluid. This in turn creates lower rates of unemployment as well as reduced need for welfare programs (now known as TANF) not to mention reduce the odds of them mugging you at night. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families forces those w/ assistance to attend vocational training and attempt to find work...reform that came along in the Clinton admin w/ the Republican congress that forced time limits on benefits. According to this article the welfare rolls in GA have fallen nearly 75% since 2000 which is a fairly big push. There is still the work disincentive(where you lose benefits if you start working) but at least the time limits attempt to reduce the number of those habitually in need.
The fact that schools still produce some people who are wholly incapable of joining society is a different story and one that will not be solved by vouchers which have been proven to only provide private school education for those who could already well afford it. I don't particularly agree with high levels of social welfare and this is just another example at the expense of many public schools that are functioning just fine. If you want your kids to be coddled in private school, belly up the money and be glad the riff-raff can't afford to sit next to your kids. The university system(outside of GA) works just the same. Send your kid to local U and hope for the best unless you're willing to drop 40k/year for every last bit of advantage. Georgia's Hope scholarship may seem analagous to a voucher system but imagine if your kid had to compete to get into a decent kindergarten.
As for tax burden...I had over 18k withheld from my paycheck for last year and this year it will exceed 20k if I don't work up some more deductions. That's a Civic Si a year I give to Uncle Sam. As a single male w/ health insurance I don't exactly get a huge amount of benefit from gov't services but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay up. Nor do I expect SS to be there in the 39 years until I can retire. That money is paying up for all those retirees today who probably earned less as part of the workforce than in retirement but blame AARP and pandering politicians for providing welfare to retirees. In all honesty SS could be fixed w/ a couple % reduction in benefit growth and an increase in retirement age (people used to not have a 1/4 chance of making it to 90) but all those silver haired folks living it up in Boca Raton would stage a coup d'état if we tried that. Private accounts aren't a fix either...hence Bush's utter failure at reform.
My last job formerly had a pension(only for those over 40) that was promised to be fully funded but instead was cut 2 years after that promise to make quarterly earnings statements to appease the shareholders. Many of my coworkers had put in 20+ years and put up w/ good and bad times with the expectation of a comfortable retirement which was suddenly taken from them toward the end of their career. For them SS is the only safety net they may have to a reasonable retirement since they didn't put much into their 401k's or demand rapid salary increases in exchange for lifetime employment.
As for complaining about the quality of the school, you should instead be more involved in your children's education. Even the best private school has produced its shares of useless, albeit priviledged dropouts. I actually attended one of those crappy public schools in Gwinnett County yet I still managed to go Ivy League as did my younger brother and my older brother still managed GT but it had little to do w/ the teachers or so many of our classmates that wound up working for $8/hr despite having families that were fairly affluent. Our parents pushed us as did all of the other people I met in college up there.
I apologize for the extraordinarily long post but my economics background in public finance just got the best of me.
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Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
Why don't you try reading my posts first before you decide to reply? I never said the county shouldn't split. Really, as I look at my replys to other people, I was giving reasons they should split.Quote:
Originally Posted by Six2Six
+1 for you!Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdare23
FAIR TAX! FTW!
Not a prob. Sorry for my late reply to your late reply..... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bigdare23
No, but it's rather easy to redistribute resources to where they are better suited to avoid this. How? Well, for starters, you hire people to police the programs. Find out if the benefits are being used wisely or wasted. If someone KNOWS that someone ELSE is watching what they do with OUR tax dollars, they are less likely to waste them. Same with welfare, same with unemployment, same with SSI. All of it needs to be policed by someone. Right now, none of those public assistance programs are being monitored. If they were, we wouldn't have 13 yr olds collecting thousands every month while their mom and dad can readily support them or 25 yr old unemployed baby factories sitting around watching Oprah collecting benefits for her 5 children whom she readily admits doesn't care to make the FATHERS support them. That's bullshit any way you cut it and has nothing to do with which side of the tracks you live on. It's a mental state to where you are PROGRAMMED to expect to be supported rather than support yourself.Quote:
You say your attitude is toward the leeches, but my thing is why punish all for the actions of few? Yeah, there's will always be those "leeches" what about the people that are trying? FUCK THEM TOO, right?
Neither. As I explained above, efficiency could be greatly increased with the resources we already have. All we have to do is WANT to make it more efficient. Problem is that poor people VOTE. So that means politicians want to pander to that VOTE. They won't make radical changes because it will be PERCEIVED as "your taking MY benefits away" rather than "NO, I'm trying to have more money available for and IF you REALLY need it..." So they lose a VOTE and we get our tax money....MONEY EARNED BY WORKING.....wasted.Quote:
I feel you on this, but answer this question for me. Which is better to you?
The minority (aka leeches) benefiting because of the majority (aka people trying to the support themselves, but need help), or the majority being punished because of the minority (if you dont understand it I will re-word).
No public assistance program was ever designed to be a support structure, only ASSISTANCE....i.e. you eventually get OFF the system and support yourself. We all know or have read about people that not only have been on public assistance their ENTIRE life, but also their children who somehow or another end up in the same rut......why is that?? :thinking:
Obviously you've never made over a $100k yet, have you?Quote:
Dont forget it's taken forcefully from everyone. Just think about those people who are just barely making it, that still got to pay taxes too. When u make minimium wage taxes hurt alot more than when you make $100k+.
The way it REALLY works is like this: You make over $100k, and you have $30K taken out of your check. That doesn't change your bills. That doesn't change the fact that the gov't TOOK $30K from you to give to someone else to squander. If you make $20k, they only take $3k if that. So now tell me.....is the $100k/yr person MAKING 10x's more than the $20K/yr person??? NOPE. He makes 5x's more, but PAYS 10x's more taxes.......How's that work out towards that "fairness" thing again???? :thinking:
Add to that how many "benefits" that $100k/yr person USES UP from his/her tax dollar base......now you have someone PAYING a big chunk of his/her HARD EARNED salary each year YET not using any of the public assistance programs he/she is funding....... :thinking:.....HMMMM, that doesn't seem "fair" now does it? Add to that how 99.9999% of everyone making any money PAYS for their own INSURANCE too.....now you have no use of public assistance that way too......Again, how fair is it that someone that works hard to get to $100k/yr should be PENALIZED and MADE to support someone that has no aspirations of being anything other than TAKEN CARE OF???? How fair is that?
No. Schools should be made to compete just like any other form of commerce.Quote:
Then, If everyone stays in the "same" county, then the money should be divided "equally". If there's 200 schools in the county then the money going toward the schools should be divided by 200. I would COMPLAIN too if a few schools were getting more money than others (just using education as an example).
If you get crappy service from a restaurant, what do you do??? NOT come back and tell all your friends not to go there, right? Eventually they either shape up or ship out and go bankrupt, right? What happens in that void? Nothing, because another restaurant is there to fill it. It's called supply and demand.
Gov't schools right now don't have that. They operate under a monopoly structure. You get told which one you have to attend, period. Your only other choice is either to move to a better district or go private or suck it up.
Now, insert competition into the mix. Give teachers tenure based on their STUDENTS test scores. If they breed shitty students, then they don't deserve tenure. Give schools funding based on STUDENTS scores and achievements. Put out bad students, get bad funding.
Now insert CHOICES. Give parents a voucher equal to their school tax portion of their property taxes to go towards WHATEVER school they CHOOSE to take their children to. Now, the "better" schools would get ALL THE FUNDING they need to stay a "better" school via paid tuition. After all....isn't that what everyone perceives is the "problem"......lack of funding in your "poor gov't schools"???? :rolleyes: Then problem solved. There's funding.
What you would see is not even distribution at all, but you would see RESULTS. You would see better schools because if you didn't improve people wouldn't want to attend therefore you'd eventually have to close. Voila! That's how business is ran in the real world. Why should Gov't have laws against monopolies, yet it not apply to them??? :rolleyes: ;)
Exactly as the example I gave of my Grandfather. He paid all his life. Got less than 2 yrs worth of "benefits" and passed away. Now my Grandmother is left behind w/o him to help her, yet SSI pays her....NOT the part that my Grandfather was legally entitled to for paying all his life into it and they would still be paying if he were alive.....but a miserable portion because SHE has her own retirement money SHE saved and EARNED.Quote:
I promise you that if they work, then they are paying into SS. You cant get away from paying into that! I been paying to into SS since I was 15. Trust me, if u work u will pay more into SS then what you get back! (Shit you cant get it until you are like 65, and most people die before they reach that age)
How's that for SSI being there for you for your retirement?
Actually exponentially more.Quote:
Yeah some pay more than others.
Higher income earners pay out the nose for benefits they will NEVER SEE. When they get to retirement age, they will have pensions or 401K or retirement money accrued from their years of WORKING. As explained above, that means what???? They will NOT get ANY SSI because they planned ahead and thought about their retirement. So they paid all their lives so SOMEONE ELSE could benefit. Again, how's that fair???
DING DING DING!!!!! We have a winner.Quote:
What? You want the person who get paid more to pay the same amount into SS as the person who gets minimum wage? Then we might as well not have SS then.
That's exactly what should happen. Let people determine their own futures. Let them KEEP the portion of their EARNED money that would have gone into SSI, and INVEST that into something that will both help the economy as a whole AND yield them MORE money for retirement. We can easily do that. Re-investing in OUR own economy. Imagine that concept. More companies would have more money to expand, which would create more DOMESTIC jobs, which would give people more spending money to again help out the economy, which would then put more people OFF public assistance, which would then net MORE money available for those that TRULY need it......wow, what a concept, huh?
So let me get this straight: You'd rather have a system that OBVIOUSLY doesn't work (i.e. is going bankrupt and heavily into debt since decades ago) and makes people PAY that they KNOW won't ever GET paid back.....or would you rather see MILLIONS more people be independently wealthy when they get to be 65????? Hard choice to make, isn't it??? ;)
Know why it won't happen??? VOTES. Politicians can't be eloquent enough to explain things in those terms to their constituents, so they maintain the present course. God forbid if they would have their poor uneducated voters in their district THINK that they are going to get less benefits......uufff, you'd lose votes then. Can't have that. So we maintain a course that puts us on a collision course to nowhere without a future for MILLIONS of people that will just continue that perpetual cycle of public assistance.
I'd rather leave my children something to continue their lifes fruitfully than the address to the welfare office. Don't you? ;)
Atleast you agree with me that people who plan for their future, don't ever require assistance down the road.Quote:
That's selfish to me since more than likely by the age the richer person retires he/she wont need to depend on SS anyways. On there other hand, the person who struggled throughout life wont have a savings to back them up. Why not put money into the pot, so everyone can benefit farther down the road.
To answer your question, because it only serves to reward people for making bad choices.
CHOICE.Quote:
1. Easy, they stayed in the hood, where the school wasnt getting the funding like it should of.
How do you "support" your family @ minimum wage? Again, bad CHOICE.Quote:
2. They had to drop out of school to help take care of the family.
Why not? There are far more grants and programs for lower income families than there is for anyone else. HOPE SCHOLARSHIP FTW (that's the first and last time I've ever used FTW :D ).Quote:
3. They cant afford college
Do they not know how to read and write? Then why would someone else have to "tell you" anything? How many famous people are there that came from poor backgrounds??? Lots. What's the difference between their ghetto and today's ghetto? Desire and attitude, that's the difference. If you think you're only good for welfare, then welfare is the only thing you'll ever get. Again, bad choice.Quote:
4. They was never told about the opportunities that were out there
What resources is it that are not available? ALL resources START out with the premise that there are choices for even the lower income brackets. So exactly what resources is it that they wouldn't have access to???Quote:
5. They was told about the opportunities, but didnt have the resources to get them
Number 1. Yes I can blame people for their mistakes. They didn't ask me to join them when they were having sex, right? So, why should I have to PAY for their child?Quote:
6. Slipped up and had a child early (cant blame people for mistakes)
Number 2. It is once again a CHOICE to have sex or not. There are tons more CHOICES for contraception today than there were 50 yrs ago, yet 50 yrs ago you had LESS babies being born out of wedlock.....how's that work? :thinking:
Number 3. There are tons of people that made mistakes when they were young, yet went on to be fruitful and contributing members of society. A child born out of wedlock IS NOT a death sentence nor is it an automatic ticket to welfare. It does increase your chances. It does make it harder to achieve your goals. But it's not impossible. Again, it boils down to attitude and desire. If you are bred to fall back on your behind everytime the going gets tough because you KNOW the welfare's address by heart, then that's what you instill in your children who then will go on to instill it in their children.
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And the list could go on forever...................... but I'm stopping there because the basis is still education. It's like a virus, it must be prevented. If it isnt, it will continue to grow (and wont stop), but how can you prevent something that was already there before you was born. It's hard to break a chain. Some succeed, but most fail. With help, the failure rate will decrease!!!!
I 10000000% agree with you there....we just have 2 different ways to make it happen. ;)
Bet. I volunteer at the Gwinnett Co. Juvenile court as a member to the panel that hears child custody cases from DFACS. We determine what's in the child's best interest and make recommendations and testify directly to the judge as to what we think should happen. So trust me, been there done that and bought the shirt.Quote:
Provide it then! We should meet up and goto some shelters and different government agencies (such as DFACS) together. I bet I can prove my side :goodjob:
I am also a Lay Pastor at my church. Some of my duties require me to visit hospitals and shelters whenever necessary. I see sick and dying people on a regular basis. I also see needy people and help coordinate different programs our church has to help them. I see the down and out people and I see the dying people.....both have something in common.....they want someone to talk to. Most of my work in that capacity is counseling.
So trust me, I see the people that REALLY need help. I also see the people that are squandering it away daily on everything from the store to TV.
BTW, abuse is having two arms and two legs and having decent health and NOT going out to get a job. Abuse is having 5 kids from 5 different partners and not making a single one pay for it. Abuse is committing fraud to get SSI for your kids whom you KNOW don't have ADD.
Trust me, there are far more committing abuse than you think.
You don't know me, but trust me I try and do plenty. Why do you think I got involved with the courts? The main reason was because after calling DFACS and getting "sorry, but we just have a big case load and can't help you...", I thought that children (who are the only true innocents) deserved a voice in their well being. Sometimes their parents have no clue nor desire to look at that FIRST. When I review their cases, I look at that FIRST.Quote:
Like you said you know people that are beating the system, yet you do nothing about it, but want to complain. There's your tax paying dollars right there! If you was so worry about it you wouldn't be bitching about it on IA when you know people who are wasting your tax dollars. Report there asses and bam that money could be going to some needy family!
So to answer your question, you are correct in a way. I am by far not doing as much as I could to change it myself. But I am trying. ;)
The point is not that she needs it or not. She has a family. She will NEVER go without. It's the principle. The principle that someone, my Grandfather, worked his entire life. Worked menial jobs, long hours, in crappy conditions to raise his family. They never got welfare, although my dad and my uncle were raised in terrible housing in NY when they were little. No heat, 1 bedroom, walking to school in the freezing cold......you know the old story our Grandparents tell us....only for real. Bottomline is that they pulled themselves out of that situation into better ones, until eventually they prospered. My own parents struggled before we moved to Georgia. I remember not having running hot water in our 2 room house. I remember getting IOU's at Christmas because my parents didn't have the money to buy us the things we wanted. I remember having to walk, for about 5 miles each way, thru alleys and passing people doing drug deals, just to go to school. I remember having only 1 car for the whole family....a 1978 Camaro....2 doors, 4 kids.....and DEALING with it. My dad had to drop off my mother downtown only to then drive all the way up to Gainesville to his work, only to do it all again in the afternoon, only to then come COOK for us....... ;)Quote:
As for your grandparents, honestly with your grandmother pension, do she need SS? If so, I would be mad too, since its there to "help," but if its' more than enough to take care of her and her bills whats the point. Oh, I see just because it there. It could be going to someone who needs it more (I dont want bad blood between us, so this wasnt meant to disrespect your grandparents in anyway).
I wasn't born with a silverspoon in my mouth, trust me.
By the same token, why should you reward them for making bad choices?Quote:
Last, how can you punish the children for nothing they have done!!! So because there parents arent doing right, they cant eat, have a roof over their head, decent clothes to wear????? Thats just damn wrong!
As I said above, children are indeed the innocents. I have nothing against them at all. So I agree with you.
See, that's the problem. People have CHOICES. Those CHOICES are what for the most part make or break you. NOT OTHER PEOPLE. The "man" mentality is what some people take seriously. The "man" is keeping me down, the "man" is keeping me from going to school, the "man" is not letting me make $100k/yr. It's not the "man", it's the attitude. Noone EVER wins if they feel defeated before the fight even starts.Quote:
I'm not selfish, I want others to come up with me, not be held down because of me!
^^^World's longest thread. :lmfao:
Boy, I'm long winded. :D
Jaime you should run for president and clean this country up haha.
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Originally Posted by ironchef
I would, but there's that one thing about background checks........ ;) :lmfao:
Yea I'm sorry but I definately wouldn't vote for you. If the gov't/economy ran the way you wanted, we would have the extremely rich and the extremely poor. You forget to add into all your equations that the "middle" class is the largest class in America.
jaime isnt bitching about the middle class, hes bitching about the freeloaders who bitch about not having services but those people complaining arent contributing to get the services...please read all the posts before jumping to conclusionsQuote:
Originally Posted by d-ninja
Then he's bitching about a very small portion of people, especially when compared to that of those who need the benefits and aren't getting them, and are complaining.
Damn that's a long post. I said i wasnt going to respond back, but since you put that much effort into your post, I just cant let you go unanswered, LOL. But, gotta do hw first (since education is important :goodjob: )Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
Since you want to get into the ring, where exactly does YOUR numbers come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ninja
Name exactly who it is you refer to that "needs" benefits but doesn't get them? Now compare that number to the number of people that abuse those benefits they do get.
Furthermore, As SteveO perfectly said...I'm not bitching/debating about people who get what they deserve. I'm pointing out that people should have the right to see to it that their hard earned money shouldn't be squandered and even worse have to go to support someone who is not pulling their own weight in the scale of society. That is what the residents of N. Fulton Co. are wanting to say when they say they'd rather support themselves than the WHOLE county. I don't blame them. When you pay your own property taxes, you'll agree as well.
Question for ya: Would you rather 1 innocent person be sent to prison by mistake along with 100 guilty ones or let 100 guilty people free along with the innocent one?
Same thing is going on with your logic. You'd rather maintain the present course which is obvious DOES NOT work, ie. why it's going bankrupt, than it is to make changes which will inherentlly make it more difficult for people to get their deserving and needed benefits. Let's not inconvinience a few for the benefit of 10x's more? How's that logical?
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Originally Posted by bigdare23
Believe it or not, you and I agree on more things than we disagree on this subject. We both seem to want good.
Just remember, one way has been business as usual and it's finally going bankrupt. Why not try something different....possibly better??
If your plan didn't have flaws it would be passed without change. You have to understand Politicians have to get the votes, and to fix that you'd have to fix our legal system. Such as instead of having a President campaigning for 3 of their 4 year 1st terms, having them get shit done. But thats another topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimecbr900
There are flaws to your plans, and I'm just too lazy to point them out because that would be too much typing. If we were having a discussion and this came up I'd gladly step up to the plate. I don't suggest continuing the present course, I'd say it needs fixing, but that only takes time. And from your point of view its time we don't have.
Well I'm too lazy to get deep into this arguement, I just wanted o'boy to know that not all of IA sided with Jaime or you on this. (nothing personal, honest), And that I enjoyed reading this debate. I'm honestly considering printing sections of this out (minus the bullshit) and taking it to my Current Issues class and discussing it with them.
Fact of the matter is, the bill isn't gonna pass. Period. And anyone who doubts me can put $$$ down on the table (but not alot, cuz i'm poor). I'll put $30 on the table saying the bill will not pass.
Flaws??? What flaws??? Didn't you get the memo about me being perfect??? :D :lmfao: JP.Quote:
Originally Posted by d-ninja
It probably does. But I think that if someone doesn't do something, it will only get worse. So it may be flawed, but far less than the current system.
Believe me I know it's about politics and not about well being of the people. Absolutely agree with you there. :goodjob:Quote:
You have to understand Politicians have to get the votes, and to fix that you'd have to fix our legal system. Such as instead of having a President campaigning for 3 of their 4 year 1st terms, having them get shit done. But thats another topic.
The current system has had "time". They've had decades worth of time. The only time left is for real change. Change that makes sense. Not political strategy change.Quote:
I don't suggest continuing the present course, I'd say it needs fixing, but that only takes time. And from your point of view its time we don't have.
Let me ask you: What's going to happen when SS goes bankrupt? What then? Will the gov't simply let us keep our money? Will still keep taking it? This is why changes need to happen now rather than later because there may not be a program later. I sincerely doubt that bankruptcy will automatically mean the seize and decist of collections. If it did, then I would say let it go bankrupt.
I'b be curious to see what young people in college would think about this.Quote:
Well I'm too lazy to get deep into this arguement, I just wanted o'boy to know that not all of IA sided with Jaime or you on this. (nothing personal, honest), And that I enjoyed reading this debate. I'm honestly considering printing sections of this out (minus the bullshit) and taking it to my Current Issues class and discussing it with them.
Quote:
Fact of the matter is, the bill isn't gonna pass. Period. And anyone who doubts me can put $$$ down on the table (but not alot, cuz i'm poor). I'll put $30 on the table saying the bill will not pass.
Hmmm, I'm tempted to take that bet...... :thinking: