If you don't mind, some of us are trying to have an intelligent debate. So please, hold your biased, baseless remarks until we're done.
kthxbye
If you don't mind, some of us are trying to have an intelligent debate. So please, hold your biased, baseless remarks until we're done.
kthxbye
Last edited by Six2Six; 01-25-2007 at 07:43 PM.
You can whine all you want and justify it using whatever COLOR you want, but the bottomline is that it ISN'T fair that anyone gets a disproportionate part of the tax burden.
If the more you make.....then the more you should GET. That is FAR and away NOT the way it actually is. You want to about the "real world"???? How about THAT reality???.....there are MILLIONS of lazy people living off WORKING people.....including YOU if you have a job and pay ANY taxes. Personally, I think that is bullshit. Why should I have to pay for YOUR inability to provide for yourself for an extended amount of time??? Why? If there wasn't that safety cushy net, maybe you wouldn't fall. This country REWARDS failure rather than teach people NOT to fail.
If I make more money than you, then I A: should get MORE than you and B: not be made to support you.
Stand up on your own two damn feet. Why expect someone to carry you???
No matter which way you cut it, the minority should never pay for the majority. The majority should pay for itself.
Again, ironchef brought up an excellent point: The more you pay, the more services you should receive. Wouldn't that just chap all the Cynthia Mckinney's of the worlds ass???? Then it would be true discrimination, wouldn't it????
I want to hear from all the bleeding hearts a real common sense justification of why the wealthier you are the more you should pay for anything. Why the double standard?? Are roads more expensive on one side of the tracks than the other to build???? Then why should one pay more than the other for the same road they share???? Explain that.
I believe anyone can get a job if they really wanted to. I don't think it's fair that they get to live off of everyone else. You can thank your good ol' buddies in the U.S. gov't for them being able to do that. Complaining to everyone else isn't gonna change anything.
The way this country is set up, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the middle class citizens continuously fight to keep their heads above water.
Last edited by Six2Six; 01-25-2007 at 09:49 PM.
you just probably unknowigly contradicted yourself...the rich get richer and the poor get poorer but yet "anyone can get a job"? please clarify your stance on this becuase YES, anyone CAN get a job and if they work hard, reap the benefits....Originally Posted by Six2Six
the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is funny too because the rich get richer but also pay for more of the poor peoples shit also...the irony....
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
Yes, anyone can get a job with some effort. Even if it's minimum wage, you got to start somewhere. No, you shouldn't live off of the gov't unless you just have no other option. And as soon as opportunity arises, take it so you can stop getting gov't assistance and the money can go to the next person that really needs it.
Is that clear enough for you?
The only thing rich people are concerned about is keeping their money where it's within arms reach.the rich get richer and the poor get poorer is funny too because the rich get richer but also pay for more of the poor peoples shit also...the irony....
And whats wrong with that? Why should undeserving people get their hands on my hard earned money? They sit on their fat asses on the couch and go to the welfare office once a week or month or whatever, while I work 9-5 or more 5 days a week? For what? Just so part of that money will go to those useless people that contribute nothing to society?
dude ironchef, you are right on point...
626, you ever worked at a grocery store?? back when i worked at kroger, a lady came in and bought $400 something in groceries on FOOD STAMPS (ALL name brand shit). I dont eat all named brand shit but they come through with like $90 in coke, Velveeta shells and cheese, ETC. Why?? because its free...fuck they ate better than my family did. At the end of the buggy, the lady boughta 12 pack and a bottle of wine...she then gave my bagger $10 to take all her free shit the WE just paid for outside...guess what she drove?? a new expedition while I just fed her and her fat ass family
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
amen six 2 six, and I dont know what roads cbr is tlaking about, but the roads in e atl and the west end are the shitty roads ever. Buckhead and alpharetta already have the best schools and the best infrastructure. If you don't beleive that call me and i'll personally take you on a tour. Also, I extend the opportunity to tutor in my program if you owuld like to get a hands on feel for the true situation, not the rhetoric you hear on TV.
It is definitely apparent in the educational system. I know first hand because I'm a senior in high school. The differences between north and south county schools is an atrocity.
Theres programs that alleviate this problem, called minority to majority or majority to minority, i can't remember. Anyway, last I recall reading about it, it allows someone to transfer to a school where they feel they will get a better education, and they work out some kind of transportation system with the county. So, if you really wanted a better education that could be something you could look into. Unfortunately many don't, yet they still cry about the educational problems.
I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I like being around my own people.
If the school board would distribute the money and opportunity like they should, then there wouldn't be any need for busing and what not. You shouldn't have to drive 30-40 minutes to go to school when there's one in your own neigborhood.
and if south fulton PAID enough, im sure they would...I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I like being around my own people.
If the school board would distribute the money and opportunity like they should, then there wouldn't be any need for busing and what not. You shouldn't have to drive 30-40 minutes to go to school when there's one in your own neigborhood.
prime example: look at gwinnett around the duluth lawrenceville area....we have MANY "upper class schools"...why? because we pay a fuckload of taxes...if south fulton provides 20% of taxes, they should inheirently(sp) get 20% of the services...i think thats the point a few are trying to make
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
They probably don't distribute it because they see the funding will go nowhere. Lets take a school in north fulton which have 99% of their students go on to college vs south fulton which im willing to bet is a much lower number, the disparity between the two causes the disappropriated funds. Now im all for the kids in south fulton being provided all the same stuff we got in north fulton, but on the same token if they were to be provided with the opportunities, would they take advantage of them? Looking at the state of affairs down there, it doesn't seem to me like they would. That's all my opinion though. I had a friend that actually participated in the M to M program. He lived past the airport even, yet made the trip everyday up here to a school in alpharetta. So if someone wants it bad enough, they can do it.I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I like being around my own people.
If the school board would distribute the money and opportunity like they should, then there wouldn't be any need for busing and what not. You shouldn't have to drive 30-40 minutes to go to school when there's one in your own neigborhood.
Which road? Every freaking road that is public. There is no access limitation. You can drive on both the roads up north as you do the ones down south. There is no police stopping you from riding on them, is there?
You obviously didn't get it.
Taxes are supposed to go towards PUBLIC improvements. Schools, roads, fire stations, police stations, police cars, fire trucks, gov't buildings, etc. ALL of those improvements are AVAILABLE and FOR every single resident in the county. To be perfectly honest and if you want to be truly fair about property taxes and what they should and should not go to......the HOME OWNERS should have the biggest say so and use since they are the ones that pay the lion's share of the taxes. Wanna talk about "even" distribution??? How about that? Since I pay MORE property taxes than YOU, then I SHOULD be able to "get" more things, right??? Why not? That's exactly what you and 626 are alleging and fighting for. That's "even" as even can be. You PAY more into it, you GET more out. What's wrong with that?
So the road I was talking about is the 2 way one where you can't have it both ways and PAY less yet WANT more, that road.
Why is that?Buckhead and alpharetta already have the best schools and the best infrastructure.
No need. My brother lives there. My nephew goes to Alpharetta school district. You know why he does??? Because my brother WANTED the best school for HIS son and he WANTED that area, so he bought a house and MOVED there. End of discussion. He lived in Gwinnett and didn't like the school my nephew went to. He was driving 45 mins each way to work already. Nice area, nice school, moved.....not that difficult.If you don't beleive that call me and i'll personally take you on a tour. Also, I extend the opportunity to tutor in my program if you owuld like to get a hands on feel for the true situation, not the rhetoric you hear on TV.
To be perfectly honest, this is why we ALL should be given the choice as to which school our children attend if we feel our assigned school is not doing a good job in educating our children. Until that happens, picking up and moving is the only choice if you want to stay in gov't schools.
I live WHERE I live for the same reason my brother moved. I didn't like the school my daughter was going to....it was gov't.....so I moved closer to my office and a much better school. Problem solved. If stayed where I used to live, which was a very nice house with nice roads and close to everything, then I only have MYSELF to blame for the poor education of MY children.
If you depend LESS on the gov't to provide for you....shady politicians, bad politics, liberal school teachers, shitty school supplies, and bad education will NOT have such a traumatic effect on your everyday life.
Pull up your boot straps and take control of your own destiny. Depending on the gov't for everything will only make you as good as it is. No better, no less. Is that your only aspiration? If so, then continue your course. If not, then do something about it.
damn...well said yet again
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
I need to run for President or something......
yeah man i got you a voteI need to run for President or something......
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
Also, whatever reservations you have against the "bums" that live in this area, you still can't punish their children or relegate them to bad infrastructure/education
you win
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
yay
not living in Fulton Co. FTW!
for real...for once im glad im in gwinnett..
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
what construction? i never go past medlock hardly...is that where the milton area would be?
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
I just wanted to point something out.
South Fulton schools don't have the $ for new books an infrastructure because they have to pay their teachers up to 15% more because nobody wants to work there. If the students had a little respect and the parents actually gave a damn about their kids’ education and life, things might be different. At the beginning of the 2006-2007 school year, Fulton County had close to 100 openings for school teachers and I’m not sure if they were all filled.
If anything, S. Fulton's education system is getting more money
odd but yet very interesting...so parents dont give a damn about their kids but they want to bitch about everything else...nice
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
Excellent point.
Another thing to consider is competition.
If we were allowed to send our kids to the school that actually TEACHES their students best (i.e. standardized test scores) via a VOUCHER for what we PAY for in property taxes......then the crappy schools would either shape up or close. What is wrong with that? Oh wait, not EVERYONE that attends school PAYS property taxes do they??? Hmmm, well that's a problem for those people then huh.
I could send my kids to the mack daddiest private school just about anywhere if I got a voucher for the amount of property taxes I pay to send them there. THEN when gov't schools empty maybe they'll realize that schools are designed to TEACH and not as pawns in politics.
I could go on, but I'm gonna stop there......
Damn, some of you have fucked up attitude toward society! If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand. If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it? On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't. Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!
This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me, and I wish everyone wanted to do the same.
{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}
i dont think anyones mad at paying more taxes except for the people who want to bitch about not getting enough things, when they dont contribute enough..i dont know if that sentence made any sense but it sounded good coming out of my head while i was thinking it
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
LOL
I feel where the upper class folks coming from, but the big man should want to lend a hand to the falling little man. That's if the little man is will to extend his hand while he help his own self get up.
{I'm sounding all smart and shit}
Exactly. It is great to help people who TRY to help themselves. Compassion is one thing, being taken advantage of is another.LOL
I feel where the upper class folks coming from, but the big man should want to lend a hand to the falling little man. That's if the little man is will to extend his hand while he help his own self get up.
{I'm sounding all smart and shit
HEY JAMIMECBR900 sorry for responding so late!
You say your attitude is toward the leeches, but my thing is why punish all for the actions of few? Yeah, there's will always be those "leeches" what about the people that are trying? FUCK THEM TOO, right?
I feel you on this, but answer this question for me. Which is better to you?Actually this "problem" is created when people base their whole life around what the "gov't" is going to "do" for them and manage it accordingly. When the gov't doesn't give them what they fell entitled to, then they complain.....ala biting the hand that feeds you. What is it that you do to a dog that does that????
The minority (aka leeches) benefiting because of the majority (aka people trying to the support themselves, but need help), or the majority being punished because of the minority (if you dont understand it I will re-word).
Dont forget it's taken forcefully from everyone. Just think about those people who are just barely making it, that still got to pay taxes too. When u make minimium wage taxes hurt alot more than when you make $100k+.
Then, If everyone stays in the "same" county, then the money should be divided "equally". If there's 200 schools in the county then the money going toward the schools should be divided by 200. I would COMPLAIN too if a few schools were getting more money than others (just using education as an example).
LOL, I know that (I have a B.S in Mathematics). I was just using that as a comparsion for those that were complaining that the tax rate should be the same.
I promise you that if they work, then they are paying into SS. You cant get away from paying into that! I been paying to into SS since I was 15. Trust me, if u work u will pay more into SS then what you get back! (Shit you cant get it until you are like 65, and most people die before they reach that age) Yeah some pay more than others. What? You want the person who get paid more to pay the same amount into SS as the person who gets minimum wage? Then we might as well not have SS then. That's selfish to me since more than likely by the age the richer person retires he/she wont need to depend on SS anyways. On there other hand, the person who struggled throughout life wont have a savings to back them up. Why not put money into the pot, so everyone can benefit farther down the road.
1. Easy, they stayed in the hood, where the school wasnt getting the funding like it should of.
2. They had to drop out of school to help take care of the family.
3. They cant afford college
4. They was never told about the opportunities that were out there
5. They was told about the opportunities, but didnt have the resources to get them
6. Slipped up and had a child early (cant blame people for mistakes)
And the list could go on forever...................... but I'm stopping there because the basis is still education. It's like a virus, it must be prevented. If it isnt, it will continue to grow (and wont stop), but how can you prevent something that was already there before you was born. It's hard to break a chain. Some succeed, but most fail. With help, the failure rate will decrease!!!!
Provide it then! We should meet up and goto some shelters and different government agencies (such as DFACS) together. I bet I can prove my side
Like you said you know people that are beating the system, yet you do nothing about it, but want to complain. There's your tax paying dollars right there! If you was so worry about it you wouldn't be bitching about it on IA when you know people who are wasting your tax dollars. Report there asses and bam that money could be going to some needy family!I know of several people, first hand, that receive "benefits" for being disabled when they are perfectly fine to go to work. They work alright, for cash. So they get both hand out and money for working. Since they pay NO TAXES on either, then they technically make more than plenty of others that do work. I know several others that their CHILDREN receive SSI for a bunch of "ailments", yet their parents never paid a dime INTO SSI. How's that work again? Yet, my grandfather worked for over 50 yrs...ran his own business....supported his family......retired.....passed away 2 yrs later from cancer....and now you know how much my grandmother gets from SSI????? $49/mo. Yep, $49, and that's after this year's "increase"
Don't talk to me about UNFAIR. I KNOW unfair.
As for your grandparents, honestly with your grandmother pension, do she need SS? If so, I would be mad too, since its there to "help," but if its' more than enough to take care of her and her bills whats the point. Oh, I see just because it there. It could be going to someone who needs it more (I dont want bad blood between us, so this wasnt meant to disrespect your grandparents in anyway).
Last, how can you punish the children for nothing they have done!!! So because there parents arent doing right, they cant eat, have a roof over their head, decent clothes to wear????? Thats just damn wrong!
i know its voluntary (wouldnt the world be better if everyone had some of my characteristics LOL). Honestly, taxes wouldnt matter if I saw what my money was going to. I'm not selfish, I want others to come up with me, not be held down because of me! And when I do make 6 figures my ideas wont chance, promise ya! I turned down a job making $80k in DC (right when I graduated in May 2006), to contiune my education (which is very important to me) so money isn't really that important to me. Yes, I want nice things, but I know if I do good deeds, I will get what I deserve!
And Last I already feelin the wrath of the government tax (I work for the Department of Interior) and that hasnt change my opinion! It's was good debating with ya!!! You can respond back but I'm done with this for now.
The bad attitude is not towards society, it is towards leeches. If you don't pay, you don't play. If it were more like that, we would have TONS more in the game. As it is, we are growing dependancy rather than independence. Which is better in your book?
Actually this "problem" is created when people base their whole life around what the "gov't" is going to "do" for them and manage it accordingly. When the gov't doesn't give them what they fell entitled to, then they complain.....ala biting the hand that feeds you. What is it that you do to a dog that does that????If everyone wasn't so damn selfish we wouldn't have this problem. There's nothing wrong with sharing a helping hand.
If you made $200k, so what the problem of with taking $25-$50K and putting it toward society. It's not really "hurting" you. It's not taking food off of your table. Yeah, you might to settle for that Boxer rather then the GT3 (oh wow), but that's not too bad is it?
There's nothing wrong with it if it is VOLUNTARY. When it's taken from you forcebly it gets a little annoying. If I GIVE you something and you COMPLAIN about it.......what am I supposed to do? Keep giving or give to someone else?
The tax burden of someone that makes $20k/yr is far less than $5k. Look up the tax brackets and see where $20K lies. It's not 25%. It's not even 10% realistically because how many "services" is that $20K/yr person USING??? I'd be willing to bet plenty more than the few pennies he/she is paying INTO the same system he/she is draining out the other end. This is why SS is going bankrupt and this is why the majority of social services are following that example. Pay out more than you are taking in, and even a short bus rider can tell you that will eventually bleed you dry.On the other hand, If someone total income is $20k, $5K worth of tax can put you in a bind.
Why is that person making only $20k? Start there as the first step.
Why can't they?Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the slackers, but their are plenty of people that want to improve their living standards that can't.
Wrong. There are far MORE that abuse it, hence there is problems with funding. There are plenty of people that get paid NOT to work. They make MORE from public assistance if they have no job at all than if they had a job and only received PARTIAL benefits.Everyone wants to throw the word welfare out there, but do anyone really know the details of it. To qualify for most assists, you have to work with an exception if you're disable. So welfare is for people who are trying to help themselves that can't fully. There are few exceptions that cheat the system, but there are plenty more people who don't!
I know of several people, first hand, that receive "benefits" for being disabled when they are perfectly fine to go to work. They work alright, for cash. So they get both hand out and money for working. Since they pay NO TAXES on either, then they technically make more than plenty of others that do work. I know several others that their CHILDREN receive SSI for a bunch of "ailments", yet their parents never paid a dime INTO SSI. How's that work again? Yet, my grandfather worked for over 50 yrs...ran his own business....supported his family......retired.....passed away 2 yrs later from cancer....and now you know how much my grandmother gets from SSI????? $49/mo. Yep, $49, and that's after this year's "increase"
Don't talk to me about UNFAIR. I KNOW unfair.
That's great, but it is VOLUNTARY and out of your own free will, right??? Would you feel the same way if it was TAKEN from you, and then you saw people squandering it??? Come talk to me after you've been EARNING that 6 figure salary. You will see things differently when it hits YOUR pocket directly.This coming from a person who is on track to be making 6-digits (just check out the ^^^location). Once, I get to a place in life that I'm comfortable, I plan on helping bring up alot people that less fortuninate (spelling) then me
You're right. Me too.I wish everyone wanted to do the same.
As long as you consider the source of your figures......go for it.{Plus, I'm fucking a Sociology Major, I can make one call and start spiting facts LOL.}
One part missing from the article is what percentage of income to tax rate. Merely claiming 29% of the population pays 42% of the tax is meaningless without their income level or their property value. If that 29% of the population's property is actually worth 70% of the property in the county, who would be arguing? It's the same incomplete argument that the top 50% of earners pay 96% of all taxes.
The redistributive effect of property tax in a county like this for education is just that and not necessarily an example of taxes gone awry although it could be. Education is generally considered a public good. People who have at least a primary school education can generally function in society and join a workforce that is more fluid. This in turn creates lower rates of unemployment as well as reduced need for welfare programs (now known as TANF) not to mention reduce the odds of them mugging you at night. Temporary Assistance for Needy Families forces those w/ assistance to attend vocational training and attempt to find work...reform that came along in the Clinton admin w/ the Republican congress that forced time limits on benefits. According to this article the welfare rolls in GA have fallen nearly 75% since 2000 which is a fairly big push. There is still the work disincentive(where you lose benefits if you start working) but at least the time limits attempt to reduce the number of those habitually in need.
The fact that schools still produce some people who are wholly incapable of joining society is a different story and one that will not be solved by vouchers which have been proven to only provide private school education for those who could already well afford it. I don't particularly agree with high levels of social welfare and this is just another example at the expense of many public schools that are functioning just fine. If you want your kids to be coddled in private school, belly up the money and be glad the riff-raff can't afford to sit next to your kids. The university system(outside of GA) works just the same. Send your kid to local U and hope for the best unless you're willing to drop 40k/year for every last bit of advantage. Georgia's Hope scholarship may seem analagous to a voucher system but imagine if your kid had to compete to get into a decent kindergarten.
As for tax burden...I had over 18k withheld from my paycheck for last year and this year it will exceed 20k if I don't work up some more deductions. That's a Civic Si a year I give to Uncle Sam. As a single male w/ health insurance I don't exactly get a huge amount of benefit from gov't services but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay up. Nor do I expect SS to be there in the 39 years until I can retire. That money is paying up for all those retirees today who probably earned less as part of the workforce than in retirement but blame AARP and pandering politicians for providing welfare to retirees. In all honesty SS could be fixed w/ a couple % reduction in benefit growth and an increase in retirement age (people used to not have a 1/4 chance of making it to 90) but all those silver haired folks living it up in Boca Raton would stage a coup d'état if we tried that. Private accounts aren't a fix either...hence Bush's utter failure at reform.
My last job formerly had a pension(only for those over 40) that was promised to be fully funded but instead was cut 2 years after that promise to make quarterly earnings statements to appease the shareholders. Many of my coworkers had put in 20+ years and put up w/ good and bad times with the expectation of a comfortable retirement which was suddenly taken from them toward the end of their career. For them SS is the only safety net they may have to a reasonable retirement since they didn't put much into their 401k's or demand rapid salary increases in exchange for lifetime employment.
As for complaining about the quality of the school, you should instead be more involved in your children's education. Even the best private school has produced its shares of useless, albeit priviledged dropouts. I actually attended one of those crappy public schools in Gwinnett County yet I still managed to go Ivy League as did my younger brother and my older brother still managed GT but it had little to do w/ the teachers or so many of our classmates that wound up working for $8/hr despite having families that were fairly affluent. Our parents pushed us as did all of the other people I met in college up there.
I apologize for the extraordinarily long post but my economics background in public finance just got the best of me.
'06 G35 Sedan | 6MT
FAIR TAX! FTW!
I would, but there's that one thing about background checks........
Yea I'm sorry but I definately wouldn't vote for you. If the gov't/economy ran the way you wanted, we would have the extremely rich and the extremely poor. You forget to add into all your equations that the "middle" class is the largest class in America.
jaime isnt bitching about the middle class, hes bitching about the freeloaders who bitch about not having services but those people complaining arent contributing to get the services...please read all the posts before jumping to conclusions
FUCK B&D COMMUNICATIONS!
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