Thinking of starting a new project, what engine should I use?

[Vteckidd]

big enough slicks??? what does that have to do with gearing ratio of a gsr and gear ratio of a more racing h series tranny?


Not a thing.... post a gear ratio....

You said that Skunkeds Car wasnt an accurate comaprison because he had an OPEN DIFF tranny vs a LSD GSR tranny.

my resposnse was, if you know anything about drag racing, if you run a big enough slick, LSD does not matter, both tires will spin.

[Vteckidd]

the tranny he was using did not even have lsd(4th gen vtec); but his gzzr tranny did LSD. ofcourse your going to run a faster 1/4 time based on that alone. so that is not an empiracle fact because all things were not equal...

BTW
skunked (7:02 PM 10/2/2006): open diff, 1.7/1.6 60's on it though


He ran the same 60fts with a LSD GSR tranny, so theres goes that arguement.

NEXT

[93H22ACX]

i dont have a h22 anymore but....



all i can say is at 187whp i trapped 105mph ran 12.8@105mph and 12.9@104mph with big ass slicks 24.5x8x13....the car weigh in at 2250lb with me in it....and it was only 187whp.

I had the USDM 4th gen h22 tranny... and i must say.. my 3rd and 4th gear tops out way before peters GSR tranny did...even peter said my h-series was way too short.... thats why i shift at 9500-9800rpm lol.....

oh well..no more hondas for me....

go with a K24 and k20 head for NA....other wise h22

BTW...these are my bias opinions.

[Vteckidd]

i dont have a h22 anymore but....



all i can say is at 187whp i trapped 105mph ran 12.8@105mph and 12.9@104mph with big ass slicks 24.5x8x13....the car weigh in at 2250lb with me in it....and it was only 187whp.

I had the USDM 4th gen h22 tranny... and i must say.. my 3rd and 4th gear tops out way before peters GSR tranny did...even peter said my h-series was way too short.... thats why i shift at 9500-9800rpm lol.....

oh well..no more hondas for me....

go with a K24 and k20 head for NA....other wise h22

BTW...these are my bias opinions.

yeah but you could actually drive and your h22 impressed me NA but you dont have it anymore LOL

[93H22ACX]

yeah but you could actually drive and your h22 impressed me NA but you dont have it anymore LOL

[allmotoronly]

For everyone who did not read the opening of the thread, I have already had a few H22A's including a SiR S-Spec model. I know a lot more about the H series and what works than the B series engines, but as I said in the beginning, I want to try something new. Mr. 2JZKIDD makes a few good points about performance and especially ease of finding parts. That is one of my concerns. keep on with the suggestions!!!

[Ludester]

Trans Code T2T4
1: 3.285
2: 1.956
3: 1.344
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.266

GSR Tranny
1: 3.230
2: 1.900
3: 1.360
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.4

B16 Tranny
1: 3.307
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.4

T2T4 is a decent geared tranny, but still has a 4.2 FD and a longer 3rd gear vs the GSR. B16 tranny destroys the F20B trans everywhere.

Now, FIND ME A F20B SIR ACCORD TRANNY, find me a place i can buy one tomrrow. Cause i can make a phone call and get 10 /B16GSR trannys if i need to.

Advantage, GSR/B16

I'm at work on my pocket pc. as soon as I get home ill post up a couple of trannies to compare.


damn dude was that hard?

[Ludester]

GSR Tranny[/B]
1: 3.230
2: 1.900
3: 1.360
4: 1.034
5: 0.787
Final Drive 4.4

B16 Tranny
1: 3.307
2: 2.105
3: 1.458
4: 1.107
5: 0.848
Final Drive 4.4

the t2t4 is the accord sir tranny ...

The gsr and the t2t4 tranny are amost identical. first longer on the accord. second longer on the gsr. Third longer on the accord. forth and fifth are identical. that's interesting... So even with a t2t4 having a stronger first and third you still say advantage gsr? ok....

If I was to build a n/a h I would use this tranny below. Long first quick second. Strong third and forth with a good fifth. But I'm not building a n/a h. At least not in the near future...
U2Q7
1: 3.285
2: 2.090
3: 1.481
4: 1.071
5: 0.870
final drive 4.266

I can see the gsr give chase in third but forth is still quick on the u2q7.

Good job mike but I beg to differ so for on YOUR opinion .

Type R gearing please?

[allmotoronly]

good luck finding a U2Q7...

[allmotoronly]

the T2W4 would be a little easier (Euro-R) to find...

[allmotoronly]

here are the specs of a few tranny's compatable with the F/H series

Prelude

M2A4 - JDM 4G
M2B4 - JDM 4G LSD
M2F4 - USDM 4G
M2U4 - JDM 5G Type-S ATTS/USDM Type-SH ATTS
M2Y4 - JDM/USDM 5G Base
M2Z4 - JDM 5G SiR S-Spec/JDM 5G w/ LSD option

Gear ratio

M2A4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.787 - 4.266
M2B4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.787 - 4.266 LSD
M2F4 - 3.307 - 1.950 - 1.360 - 1.071 - 0.870 - 4.266
M2U4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 ATTS
M2Y4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266
M2Z4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD

Accord

T2T4 - JDM Accord SiR-T (F20B) LSD
T2W4 - JDM Accord Euro-R LSD
U2Q7 - EDM Accord Type-R LSD

specs

T2T4 - 3.285 - 1.956 - 1.344 - 1.034 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD
T2W4 - 3.285 - 2.090 - 1.481 - 1.071 - 0.812 - 4.266 LSD
U2Q7 - 3.285 - 2.090 - 1.481 - 1.071 - 0.870 - 4.266 LSD

[Ludester]

allmotoronly it took me a year to find a fucking (tranny code goes here).... for my motor

[Ludester]

You said that Skunkeds Car wasnt an accurate comaprison because he had an OPEN DIFF tranny vs a LSD GSR tranny.

my resposnse was, if you know anything about drag racing, if you run a big enough slick, LSD does not matter, both tires will spin.

slicks have nothing to do with one tranny being better than another anyways... slicks are an independent variable....

[H23]

I happened to notice this thread on a search, and joined just to say that 2JZkidd is a dumbass.

GSR tranny is better because you can get it sooner? STFU. You don't have any idea what you're saying.

[dwnsthGABOY]

I happened to notice this thread on a search, and joined just to say that 2JZkidd is a dumbass.

Are you fucking kidding me, ur ass should be banned. Get ur noob ass outta here bitch!!!

[98vtec]

when it comes down to it, an H series tranny cannot compete with a b series in stock form. There are companies who make complete gear sets for the B series. The only thing you can do with an H series is change the final drive and mix and match stock gears. And thats not something your everyday tuner is going to accomplish.

H2b is great, however its applications are limited to civics and integras.

the aftermarket support for the h22 is finally starting to grow and i can see it EVENTUALLY being where the B series is now, but i dont see it happening any time soon.

Dont get me wrong, i absolutely love my h22 and the tranny (jdm 4th gen), but there is no comparing it to a GSR. the acceleration with a B series just outplays the h22's capability...at this moment in time.

[Ludester]

when it comes down to it, an H series tranny cannot compete with a b series in stock form. There are companies who make complete gear sets for the B series. The only thing you can do with an H series is change the final drive and mix and match stock gears. And thats not something your everyday tuner is going to accomplish.

H2b is great, however its applications are limited to civics and integras.

the aftermarket support for the h22 is finally starting to grow and i can see it EVENTUALLY being where the B series is now, but i dont see it happening any time soon.

Dont get me wrong, i absolutely love my h22 and the tranny (jdm 4th gen), but there is no comparing it to a GSR. the acceleration with a B series just outplays the h22's capability...at this moment in time.

thanks for chiming in Blake... I guess that's a gracious way of saying... Mike you win for now ...

[98vtec]

thanks for chiming in Blake... I guess that's a gracious way of saying... Mike you win for now ...

i understand trying to back our motors, but in this case a B series matched with our motor will prevail over any H tranny.

[fawk_you]

Euro- the most HP of course.

[Ludester]

i understand trying to back our motors, but in this case a B series matched with our motor will prevail over any H tranny.

it really wasn't about if the b was better than the H. I here from people all the time that they are better so I just asked for him to back his statement up.

to stay on topic... f20b ftw...

[98vtec]

Euro- the most HP of course.

waste of money if you plan on modifying internally.

[fawk_you]

waste of money if you plan on modifying internally.

So true. I retract my statement. BOO. haha I like the euro tho thats why I said it...

[HalfBaked]

It doesn't matter, a turbo 4 cyl will bust your ass regardless.

[allmotoronly]

I happened to notice this thread on a search, and joined just to say that 2JZkidd is a dumbass.

GSR tranny is better because you can get it sooner? STFU. You don't have any idea what you're saying.

who the fuck are you and where do you come off saying some shit like that.
I think thats grounds for banning that dumb son of a bitch... If you don't have anything useful to say, stay the FUCK out of my thread.

[Vteckidd]

your talking about a Accord EURO R tranny.

WOW, i bet i can find those anywhere LOL

Also, your comparing GEARS TO GEARS but totally neglecting the Final Drive.

Also x2, The GSR tranny was better all around on SKunkeds setup. YOU SAID i couldnt compare an OPEN DIFF H22 tranny to a LSD GSR Tranny, i then proved to you that HE RAN THE SAME 60fts with the LSD TRANNY, and he himself said the GSR tranny was better.

He said if you can find someone with an accord EUROR tranny doe les than $1200 and is willing to seperate it form the motor, he wouldl think about it. But he would rather be able to call and get a B series tranny for $500-800 anytime he needs one.

To the H23 guy, STFU

[allmotoronly]

I looked for a Euro-R tranny for like a year before i got my complete SiR S-Spec swap... I could never find one for a reasonable price (less than $2000)..

[H23]

Ban me if you like, I don't give a shit, but when you have a "respectable member" posting such bullshit like that, something is seriously wrong.

Go ahead, call yourselves Honda "experts", but when you post bullshit like the GSR tranny is better than the H22, proof being that you can get it shipped faster, you deserved to get flamed by people like me.

Knowledge > you.


For the OP, to stay on topic, go with the F20b. It's got the power of an H22 with iron sleeves. 200 hp would be plenty as is, but if you ever feel the need to build it/boost it or both, you don't need to deal with FRM. The K-series shouldn't even be in here with a $4k budget..

However, I don't really know why I'm helping you after calling me a "dumb son of a bitch." Go ahead, listen to 2JZ boy.

[i4_garage]

K24......worth it in the long run....considering ur run is gonna long....lolz....that is wat i am going wit

[allmotoronly]

i thought about it... I ALMOST bought a TSX a few months ago, but it was really under powered. The engine was sporty but VTEC engagement at 6k and the weight of the car made it really slow. I can imagine a K24A2 (which has 3 rocker VTEC just like the K20A2 and K20A type R) would run pretty good in a civic. The main difference in the engines (other than the ECU which is shitty in the TSX) is that the VTC intake cam gear has about half of the electronic advancement of the K20A2 (25* instead of a max 50* on the K20A2). some people have modded the cam gear to 40*, but any more than that and valve clearance is an issue. Hondata makes a reflash that adds almost 20whp to a TSX, which shows the stock program is shit. The TSX also uses drive by wire throttle body, which means that you will have to buy an intake manifold adaptor from hondata, and a K20A2 or type R intake manifold, so you can bolt up a traditional cable controlled TB. They are strong when tuned correctly. Hondata has done a lot of tests with the K24A2. They have swapped cams and a few other things. heres a link.


http://www.hondata.com/tuning_the_tsx.html

[Vteckidd]

Ban me if you like, I don't give a shit, but when you have a "respectable member" posting such bullshit like that, something is seriously wrong.

Go ahead, call yourselves Honda "experts", but when you post bullshit like the GSR tranny is better than the H22, proof being that you can get it shipped faster, you deserved to get flamed by people like me.

Knowledge > you.


For the OP, to stay on topic, go with the F20b. It's got the power of an H22 with iron sleeves. 200 hp would be plenty as is, but if you ever feel the need to build it/boost it or both, you don't need to deal with FRM. The K-series shouldn't even be in here with a $4k budget..

However, I don't really know why I'm helping you after calling me a "dumb son of a bitch." Go ahead, listen to 2JZ boy.

How is the GSR tranny not better than the h22? i ALREADY POSTED FACTS.

SKUNKED on HT ran .4 FASTER in the 1/4mile PLUS picked up 5mph trap speed. JUST FROM SWITCHING TO THE GSR TRANNY. nothing else was done.

He has a mildly built H22, he ran faster with the GSR tranny.

ITS SIMPLE, REALLY EASY. the GSR has BETTER gearing, and is EASIER to find than some Accord EURO SIR type-R tranny that barely exists.

How many h22 trannys out there have LSD? how many GSR trannys do? HOW EASY is it to get a GSR tranny? how EASY is it to get an T2W4 or whatever the fuckl its called.

What about the fact that KNOW ONE MAKES any gearing kits for the H22? I can call ATS RIGHT now an get a 4.9 FD for the GSR, or a gearset.

fact is the GSR has better gearing, PERIOD. whether you want to beleive it or not.

MY KNOWLEDGE>you

[allmotoronly]

MY KNOWLEDGE>you

LOL

[H23]

SKUNKED on HT ran .4 FASTER in the 1/4mile PLUS picked up 5mph trap speed. JUST FROM SWITCHING TO THE GSR TRANNY. nothing else was done.

Link?

Because seeing how the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear are identical and 1st and 2nd are extremely close, I doubt the tranmission alone would help almost half a second.

He has a mildly built H22, he ran faster with the GSR tranny.

That's funny, I didn't know H22 and GSR transmissions were swappable. Oh wait, they aren't.

ITS SIMPLE, REALLY EASY. the GSR has BETTER gearing, and is EASIER to find than some Accord EURO SIR type-R tranny that barely exists.

So what? I don't give a shit how easy it is to find. A D16 is real easy to find. I guess that gives it an adavantage too, huh?

How many h22 trannys out there have LSD? how many GSR trannys do? HOW EASY is it to get a GSR tranny? how EASY is it to get an T2W4 or whatever the fuckl its called.

H22 - 1

GSR - 1

Pretty easy I guess, they're common. So are H22s. The JDM LSD H22 transmission is the M2B4.

What about the fact that KNOW ONE MAKES any gearing kits for the H22? I can call ATS RIGHT now an get a 4.9 FD for the GSR, or a gearset.

Wow, that's awesome.. you want a cookie?

fact is the GSR has better gearing, PERIOD. whether you want to beleive it or not.

Uh, ok.

MY KNOWLEDGE>you

Dude, you are so rad.

I think it's totally cute you have a cheerleader.


Considering an H22 swap with an LSD tranny from HMO would run $600-700 less than a B18 swap and you get 10-20 more horsepower with .4L more to work with, you'd be stupid to get the B18 swap.

[Vteckidd]

Link?

Because seeing how the 3rd, 4th, and 5th gear are identical and 1st and 2nd are extremely close, I doubt the tranmission alone would help almost half a second.



That's funny, I didn't know H22 and GSR transmissions were swappable. Oh wait, they aren't.

Really, LISTEN NOOB, quite while your WAY BEHIND

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1475661

(6:18 PM 10/2/2006) VtecKiDD: did your old h22 tranny have an LSD or was it open diff?

(7:02 PM 10/2/2006) skunked: open diff, 1.7/1.6 60's on it though

(7:12 PM 10/2/2006) VtecKiDD: thanks, im having an arugment on H22 tranny gearing on a local forum , and people are trying to say that the H22 tranny is way better for all motor LOL.
i of course referenced your drop in time an your trap speed increase from swithcing to a GSR tranny. but someone said that you went from an OPEN diff to a LSD so its not an accurate comaprison. I was trying to prove them wrong based on your 60ft times


(7:19 PM 10/2/2006) skunked: it actually is becasue my 60 foots did not improve with LSD. The bigger difference was the FD change from 4.2 to 4.4. Now I have a 4.7 ITR gear box

(7:21 PM 10/2/2006) VtecKiDD: wow interesting, have you run it with the 4.7 yet?

(7:22 PM 10/2/2006) skunked: no, not yet.

So yes, the GSR tranny made his car run FASTER. You dont think its possible, well , dont take my word for it, ask someone that has done it. Also, have you ever compared a GSR tranny to a H22 tranny in any of your cars? do you have a GSR powered car? an h22 powered car? please list up your expertise

So what? I don't give a shit how easy it is to find. A D16 is real easy to find. I guess that gives it an adavantage too, huh?

No MORON, what im trying to say is instead of giving people this pipe dream about a super rare tranny they have to hunt down an pay big money for, be REALISTIC. Have you ever built a car before?

H22 - 1

GSR - 1

Pretty easy I guess, they're common. So are H22s. The JDM LSD H22 transmission is the M2B4.

Again, an h22 tranny with an LSD is still not better than a GSR tranny without an LSD. 4.4 FD >4.2FD. Do you know ANYTHING about all motor cars?

Dude, you are so rad.

I think it's totally cute you have a cheerleader.

Nextt time come back with some info, or ill school you again

[Wurm]

turbo diesel

[H23]

So yes, the GSR tranny made his car run FASTER. You dont think its possible, well , dont take my word for it, ask someone that has done it. Also, have you ever compared a GSR tranny to a H22 tranny in any of your cars? do you have a GSR powered car? an h22 powered car? please list up your expertise

Faster by how much? In that same thread he also claims to have added new mounts, a new header, and that transmission with a cusco LSD. Hardly sounds like just a transmission.. who knows what else he could've done? Maybe it was just a better run? Maybe it was at a lower elevation? This hardly gives me any faith in the sense that he ran .4 seconds quicker with just the S80 tranny.

No MORON, what im trying to say is instead of giving people this pipe dream about a super rare tranny they have to hunt down an pay big money for, be REALISTIC. Have you ever built a car before?

Go to HMO, look at the H-series motors, and stfu.

Again, an h22 tranny with an LSD is still not better than a GSR tranny without an LSD. 4.4 FD >4.2FD. Do you know ANYTHING about all motor cars?

Yes, I know it has a higher FD. How does that have anything to do with my knowledge of all motor cars? If my assumption is correct, FD's have to do with drivetrains, not motor setups.

Nextt time come back with some info, or ill school you again

Wow, tough words.

[Vteckidd]

thanks

My arguement skills>yours

thanks, come back some other time bye bye now

[H23]

That's right, ban me because you can't back up you BS biased info.


Your argument skills are better than mine? LOL! You can't even spell! I won't even mention grammar.

lmfao.. What are you, 12?

[Wurm]

That's right, ban me because you can't back up you BS biased info.

you have SARS

[allmotoronly]

just ban his ass. he is just making as ass of himself. it is pretty amusing though. this kid doesnt know what the FUCK he is talking about. after MR 2JZKIDD proved him wrong all he could come up with was

Wow, tough words.

what a douche

again H23, get the FUCK out of this thread if you are not contributing to MY THREAD, which you are not. We all know that B series parts are easier to find, and the gearing is clearly better in the GSR tranny. If anyone is an expert on N/A H22A's its me. I have had a couple and I know what works and what doesnt. I may not say a lot here on IA but I am around. The SiR S-spec tranny I had in my last prelude was cool, except for the fact that it was impossible to find a replacement. If i needed a GSR tranny, I could make a few calls and have one TODAY. If I needed a LSD H22A tranny, I would have to make a few calls TO JAPAN since they never offered a LSD tranny in a USDM H22A powered car. Only the JDM models got LSD. The JDM 4g prelude SiR and the JDM 5g Prelude SiR S-Spec/ CL1 Accord Euro R. Get your facts right before you get on here and run your stupid fucking mouth.

[Vteckidd]

I think for the price it would cost to FIND a EURO R tranny, you could do the H2B an have a badass H22