TODA, JUN, SPOON CAMS?????
In about another 2 weeks I will have enough to get my cams, really looking into toda and jun, but what I need to know is what kind of valvetrain will I need to run these? Currently I have a stock gsr w/bolt ons and awaiting for my next check. Will Toda C2 (stage 2) work on a stock b18c1 without problems? Need to know ASAP! Also considering skunk2 but my friend is running jun 3s and thats way too aggressive for me so looking to get stage 1 or 2.
im too lazy to search but usually they will tell u whether or not u need to upgrade ur valve springs and reteiners. for stage 2 i would say yes, u would need to get dual springs and titanium retainers.
well on my red dc2, I was running skunk2 valve springs and retainers w/ITR cams, but then again ITR are stock.
why not skunk2 cams? if u dont mind me asking....
I would reccomend Rocket Motorsports valvetrain regardless of what type of cams you end up going with. We have revved my car to 10,000 rpm with absolutely no problem. We checked the valve lash at around 20,000 miles on my motor and there was only one valve that was just a tiny bit off, the rest were exactly where they were set when it was built. There valvesprings and retainers are some of the best and even better they are very reasonably priced. Contact Vteckidd for specific pricing and more info. It would also be a good idea to go ahead and put in a good set of valves, if you can spring the extra $. I am running omnipower flat face race valves which give a .3 bump in compression and have really good flow. I really think that they are a big reason that on an otherwise stock head, no port/polish, that I am making power to 9300 rpm.
because we have experimented with both already, friends at auto options, dyno who works there is running jun 3s, and his brother use to have a PY ls/vtec teg with skunk2. Trust me, THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. My prices for skunk2 and toda, jun is almost the same. I prefer to go with top of the line, toda and jun makes good constant power throughout rpms if you use there valve springs/retainers, basically their head package. Skunk2 also makes good power but I've seen better. Hell toda spec b is better, a little pricey but still. Basically I would like to be different and spend the extra cash for that. I was just planning on buying the cams but did a little research and well, I will need upgraded valvetrain which won't be a problem. HP/NUMBERS is not the goal here, I don't care about papers, it has been proven that these cams make awesome constant power.Originally Posted by Jdm94Coupe
I will look into that, I was thinking about the entire head package, or go back with skunk2s valve springs because I have used them before and they were good for 9k redline all day long. Tryin to get this all motor build on the way, looking to hit around 180 or so whp.
Buy a really good header. That's the first piece of advice that I would give you. BTW, Rocket Motorsports M24x cams beat out Toda 4's all the way across the board in an independant test done in Japan. I love my M22x cams. The M22x cams that I have are comparable to S2 Pro1 cams so they may be a little more hardcore than what you are wanting to do. Good luck though.
man go with the juns they are little price but still.... yeah my .02 cents
any ideas on what headers are good? I got like 3 in my garage, dc sports 4-1 and 4-2-1. skunk2 pros might be on my list.
finally someone agrees
get juns jimmy better quaility skunk2 is over rated
everyone is running them, plus I've seen what jun3s can do.
how u gonna say they on ur list when i said get them and u was like no, lol.... jk i wasnt specific........... SORRY
my vote goes to skunk2 pro 1's... or pro2's if u nasty! lol
M22x's are bad ass too....
why is skunk2 over rated??? fuck wit da pro series and we'll see who's over rated.... if i wasnt goin boost i'd get dem pro1's and get rid of my ITR cams....
but then again i might go all motor cause my boi justin in VA wants to trade me his built DART block for my itr block/tranny.... so idk.... sorry i got sidetracked...
but i say skunk2 pro 1's.... lmk wut u decide!... btw what car do you have now? motor, gsr?
i thought RMF headers were the shit.... man i feel bad cause its like i want to do all motor SOOO bad but i cant see myself throwing 700 for a header and shit.... when i can just go boost.... then cams for like 600 and shit.... it just dont seem logical for me to go n/a..... but jimmy i cant wait to see wut u end up getting/doing.... all my shit is under construction right now, lol.........post up yo shit when u get the cams and installed and shit.... sorry i used and too much, lol
going boost has always crossed my mind, matter of fact I think about it all day long, but just the pure sound of all motor and beating boosted cars is what motivates me. My next check is for my rent, but after that, I should have enough for my cams.
I DO THE SAME THING..... i think about what i have, my new job, and everything.... everything points towards my first boosted car... knowing me, i'll sell it when im done like a dumbass anyway......... good luck with the cams and lmk how it comes out.... dyno's and shit
There is SO MUCH shitty information in this thread. heres my .02:
Camshaft wise, there are only 2 companies i would look at, Skunk2 and ROCKET Motorsports. Both of them are FAR better than any JUN cam. JUNs are nice camshafts an make power, but i GUARANTEE that any PRO or M22XX cam will DESTROY Them in the midrange power. are ytou guys building street cars or drag cars. AREA UNDER THE CURVE is what you want, having run both RM and S2, and seen an spoken with COUNTLESS people on other camshafts, i still stand behind RM an S2. Toda is overrated IMO. I have seen them make power, but their price steers me away.
I have 2 cars with M22s an OEM bottom ends making over 185whp. I have 1 car with OEM bottom end making 203whp with Pro1s. My car makes 237whp with Pro3s.
Skunk2 is overrated? so i guess holdingthe WORLD RECORD ALL MOTOR CAR at 9.6 seconds in the 1/4 means they are overratedGo look at what all the NDRA and big boys are running, its the PRO series, including Jason Hunt an Jim Justices clients.
If you have a stock GSR, i would spend the money on a RMF header (or one of ours) and ITR cams. The PRO1s are a good choice, but youll ahve to switch valvetrain, youll HAVE TO HAVE something to tune with, otherwise it wont idle and it will run like shit with the huge primarys and secondaries they have.
With ITR cams, RMF header, and a decent tune you should get in the 170whp range which is ITR power. PRO1s should only be considered if you have Uberdata already, or something to tune with, and if you got a good header already. youll see more power from a good header than the PRO1s, and the header is a bolt on affair.
Price Break Down:
RMF header $700
ITR CAMS $300
Uberdata and ECU and Conversion harness $270
TOTAL:$1270
PRO1s $590
Valvesprings and retainers $300
Uberdata and ECU and Conversion Harness $270
TOTAL:$1190
I would go with option 1. Option 2 will never make the power without a header, plus its MUCH more labor intensive to install valvesprings an retainers. youll have to have the SNAP ON spring compressor to do the springs an retainers on the car, and i dont recommend it for an average mechanic. If you have the money, do option 2 and throw a header in, but it sounds like you only have enough money to do one of the other, thats what i assume.
but what do i know, im only the highest whp car in the state
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Oh, and spoon is just repackaged ITR stuff, dont waste your money on it
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yeh I know that, basically spoon is blue printed and balanced stuff, but thats some good ass info mike. I just ran into a deal last night and change of plans now. And I don't want to run ITR cams because thats what I was running in my red integra a couple weeks ago before I sold it. I know jun and toda don't make huge power but on the street they have excellent response and the power never drops.
mike u r fuckin crazy, im dyin laughin..... great write up... the last sentence is what had me on the floor rolling..... but like i said before skunk2, lol
good luck jimmy... hows the kid?
I'll be picking up a fully built gsr head very shortly from a good friend so won't be needing the info anymore. Kaila (my daughter) is going through a very bad virus right now, mad diahrea and throwing up, but the doctor says it should only last 2 weeks, its been 5 days now, sucks....cuz she shits like every 10 min for no damn reason and that shit looks like mango in a blender,lol not sure how else to explain it but thanks for asking.
Just get the most JDM cams you can find. I here if you go to tokyo you can find the same JDM cams as the nsx type r. Thoes cams are the best because they are made from the blood of real jdm virgin girls.
i know you didn't use "here" right though. lol.... and ur comments didnt help anybody, lol........
btw sorry to hear about ur daughter jimmy, i hope she recovers soon, and stops the periodical shitting too, lol... sounds like a real runny situation, lol... good luck w/ everything....
There is SO MUCH shitty information in this thread. heres my .02:
Camshaft wise, there are only 2 companies i would look at, Skunk2 and ROCKET Motorsports. Both of them are FAR better than any JUN cam. JUNs are nice camshafts an make power, but i GUARANTEE that any PRO or M22XX cam will DESTROY Them in the midrange power. are ytou guys building street cars or drag cars. AREA UNDER THE CURVE is what you want, having run both RM and S2, and seen an spoken with COUNTLESS people on other camshafts, i still stand behind RM an S2. Toda is overrated IMO. I have seen them make power, but their price steers me away.
I have 2 cars with M22s an OEM bottom ends making over 185whp. I have 1 car with OEM bottom end making 203whp with Pro1s. My car makes 237whp with Pro3s.
Skunk2 is overrated? so i guess holdingthe WORLD RECORD ALL MOTOR CAR at 9.6 seconds in the 1/4 means they are overrated
If you have a stock GSR, i would spend the money on a RMF header (or one of ours) and ITR cams. The PRO1s are a good choice, but youll ahve to switch valvetrain, youll HAVE TO HAVE something to tune with, otherwise it wont idle and it will run like shit with the huge primarys and secondaries they have.
With ITR cams, RMF header, and a decent tune you should get in the 170whp range which is ITR power. PRO1s should only be considered if you have Uberdata already, or something to tune with, and if you got a good header already. youll see more power from a good header than the PRO1s, and the header is a bolt on affair.
Price Break Down:
RMF header $700
ITR CAMS $300
Uberdata and ECU and Conversion harness $270
TOTAL:$1270
PRO1s $590
Valvesprings and retainers $300
Uberdata and ECU and Conversion Harness $270
TOTAL:$1190
I would go with option 1. Option 2 will never make the power without a header, plus its MUCH more labor intensive to install valvesprings an retainers. youll have to have the SNAP ON spring compressor to do the springs an retainers on the car, and i dont recommend it for an average mechanic. If you have the money, do option 2 and throw a header in, but it sounds like you only have enough money to do one of the other, thats what i assume.
but what do i know, im only the highest whp car in the state
I do rb20 and rb25 wiring into s13 and s14's 300.00 shipped 24hr turn around turn ket start guaranteed! PM me for more details!
why, i know 2 people that are going to give me a run for my money, but they are still some months away from being done.
other than that i dont see anyone to worry about. plus mines about to make even more power
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Hatch77...and his buddy who's car has even more power then his.
I do rb20 and rb25 wiring into s13 and s14's 300.00 shipped 24hr turn around turn ket start guaranteed! PM me for more details!
does hatch77 have my old konigs now?
post a dyno
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hatch77 has a freakin monster under his hood, seen it in person, but why is everyone always worried about numbers, I don't believe too much about numbers because just because you have a 200+whp ride doesn't declare you faster. Like I said before, I've seen toda and JUN run before, and thats what convinced me, I might spend 1k on just the cams alone but it well worth it, skunk2 pro might make way more power, but doesn't mean its going to run better. I am going by what I've seen. I haven't seen a car with pros run JUN yet but I have seen a ls/vtec built with skunk2 and lose all day to JUN. From a dig that shit is crazy, its like unbelievable power from a stop light, and the great part is its consistant which means power never drops. Might not mean shit to you guys that depend on dyno's but seeing is believing. And I'm specifically talkin about all motor, not boosted cars. Hell what good is it to have 500+whp if all you do is spin out on the streets and get beat by an all motor. just my .02
no offense, but you just proved you really have no idea what you are talking about.
Ive heard about Hatch77s motor for awhile, havent seen anything out of it yet, but it was a decent build last time i heard about it.
Sorry guys, ALL MOTOR in GEORGIA is dissapointing , because alot of poeple make poor choices. Poor parts choice directly contributes to poor whp results.
so you saw a car with skunk cams run a Jun cam car? so that bases your camshaft choice? thats extremely UNWISE.
if your serious about making power, look at SPECS, lift, Duration, High cam Lift, Coil Bind, Rocker Ratio.
just cause some car beat another car with different cams doesnt mean shit. were they the same motor, same build , same driver, same chassis, same weight, same gearing, same EVERYTHING?? i HIGHLY doubt it.
Dynos PROVE what make power over another, NUMBERS MEAN EVERYTHING, nmbers tell you whether you have failed or not, NUMBERS tell you whether you make more low end TQ or more TOP END power.
seriously, if you guys want to mke power, DO YOUR RESEARCH. thats alot of why local cars dont make power, no one knows what they are doing an make poor decisions.
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hmmm, maybe you misunderstood what I was tryin to say. First off if you wish I will post links to JUN and Toda's website and IT WILL SHOW YOU LIFT, DURATION, HIGH CAM, COIL BIND, etc. So please do not insult me with that because I have not said anything about your build or what you do. Second, I don't care for numbers, you're sitting there and telling me that numbers is whats going to determine the winner, well there are other influences too such as driver, r/t, etc. Have you ever ran a fully built motor straight from JUN? Wanna try one? call auto options and ask for DYNO, and I put money on this race saying he will murder your 237whp LS/VTEC. I've watched him take down 500+whp B16 all day from a dig, if thats not enough then why don't you go take on TIMMY. NUMBERS DON'T MEAN SHIT ON THE STREET, I've seen these two ppl cars and numbers, but yet they're still taking down higher hp cars.
P.S. If it bothers you so much then I will post a link to the specs on toda spec B, A2, C2 cams and also JUN Stage 3.
really? thats funny because I use to work with auto options and learned from kak, timmy, dyno, lat.
here is for toda http://todaracing.com/products/honda...camshafts.html
here is jun http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/cy...ft-b16.html?en
Simply looking at specs an actually understanding what they mean are 2 different things. Since you want to start this pissing contest, go ahead an tell me the differences between the Toda, Jun , Pro 1 cams at .040 , 12.5mm lift.
Which is what i said in my previous post. You said :
" I have seen a ls/vtec built with skunk2 and lose all day to JUN"
Ok, wher ethe cars the same wieght, same driver, gearing, etc? if not then that was a worthless comment.
LOL, i know Dyno for YEARS. He doesnt even OWN that motor anymore, an it was an Endyn Motor, NOT a jun motor. it had JUN cams, thats all. It had rollerwaves and Endyn Head. So maybe you want to get your facts str8. It had a DTR header, hell i PAID for the header FOR DYNO with MY PAYPAL account cause he didnt have one.
Dyno an i are friends, and last time i spoke to him, he sold that motor, and now runs a 1.8l motor with PRO1s. i know cause i gave him the BASEMAP
If he wants to run , ill run him for fun, but not because your doing cheerleading for him. Even Dyno knows that 240whp vs his motor wouldnt be a fair race, id prob be better off running his brother Mike in his EG. It would be like me having a B16 racing his old Endyn 2.0l motor, its 2 different setups.
Numbers mean everything. So what, you saw them beat SUPPOSEDLY 500whp cars, what cars were they, if they make over 500whp I KNOW WHO THEY ARE. ANY car that makes 500whp should murder a NA car. sorry man. Other wise , its a REALLY SHITTY driver in that 500whp car. I never said that numbers were the absolutution. But in any setup, a TUNED setup will be better than an UNTUNED setup.
Your basing all your info off a couple of street races you saw LOL, good luck. try finding REAL INFO, cause the info you are using is based on conditions, not FACTS.
t doenst bother me at all, im just telling you that basing your camshaft choice on "my boys car with JUN beating another car with Skunk2 cams" is complete idiocy. If you posted a dyno that PROVES your claims, then thats fine. Hell i used to DESTROY jun an Skunk2 cars in my OLD GSR with Rocket Motorsports cams, does that mean they are the best EVAR!!!!!
I never said JUN an TODA suck, what i did say was that the Skunk2 and RM cams have BETTER profiles and make MORE power. those are FACTS that arent based on bullshit street race outcomes. They are based on lift, duration, hundreds of dyno sheets. Also NDRA TOP 10 , 7 people are using PRO Skunk2 cams, what does that tell you? professionals trust them.
dont take my word for it, do your own research
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so your comparison was between these two cars?
Jays Integra was a 1.8L LSVTEC with ITR pistons and Skunk2 Stage 2 cams with a JDM DC header.
Dyno's car was a 2.0l 13.5:1 GSR with Endyn Headwork, Jun3s, DTR header.
how the fuck can you compare these 2 at all? Of course the Jun3 car won, it had a bigger motor, head work, better header, highercompression, FORGED pistons. using this as your basis for buying Jun cams is UNWISE.
Juns an Toda are good cams, its your car, buy them if you want. But youll see more power out of a PRO1 cam on a STOCK gsr than a big Toda cam. Jun will suffice on a STOCK GSR, an they will make good power. But the PRO1s will make MUCH more bottom end power than a JUN3. if you care about peak whp, get the Juns, if you care about a FAST car, get the PRO1s.
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Lets make this simple because I don't have as much time as you to type out a essay. First off don't front dude, how you going to tell me to get my facts straight and you know more because you're good friends with them but IN FACT, they don't even like your ass, go ahead and go down to xtreme and say wsup to timmy and them since you're such good friends.
Oh yeh, you can have this thread, I'm finished....Lock this thread
they dont like me? thats fine, i could care less. you think i really care what other people think about me.
I talk to dyno every once in awhile, the rest i dont talk to anymore, oh well not my problem
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i know because i was THERE when JAYS motor was BUILT, an it DYNOED on OUR DYNO.
just sounds to me like your backpeddaling.
bring them on man, any NA car, i dont care what it is, im not cocky, just confident
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