Here's the issue with the argument. I love muscle and grew up on muscle, so don't get me confused with an import kid. I love both parties.
THERE ARE NO NEW MUSCLE CARS. Corvette and Viper are sports cars. Mustang and Trans Am are even borderline sports cars now. Pony cars if they MUST be labeled. I struggle to call the new Challenger and Camaro muscle even.
Muscle cars are true old school lead sleds. Simple, loud, and appealing. Tri-power GTO, Hemi Cuda, those were all muscle cars. Simplicity is one of the biggest keys in the muscle world. When you start talking about IRS, 4 wheel disk brakes, and 4 wheel coilovers, you're walking the fine line.
Fact is, back in the 60's-70's when they hit their peak there was nothing around to compete. European cars were beginning to come into play as key competitors in circle track and Trans Am racing which is where you started to see the Firebirds, Corvettes, and Mustangs fighting for position.
Early 70's Peter Brock was competing with BMW, Alpha, Chevy, Ford ETC using tiny little Datsuns and man were they kicking ass.
Drag racing began fading as other types of racing began to emerge. It's not about straight lines anymore so the big heavy American cars can't compete with the little Porches, Renaults, Ferrari's etc that are on the track.
Imports are victorious in most forms of racing as a result. Now, that doesn't mean you can't make an old 70's Challenger tear down the Auto-X with little Miata's. It just takes a little more $$$$ and skill.
There are a fine few American cars that are well built to compete. No denying the pure awesomeness of the SSC, Vette, etc.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.
- John F. Kennedy
"Corvette Racing won 79 of the 120 races it contested through the 2010 season. The team's list of accomplishments includes 54 one-two finishes, six class victories in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, seven class wins in the Sebring 12-hour enduro, eight class titles in the 1,000-mile/10-hour Petit Le Mans, and an overall victory in the Daytona 24-hour race.
Based on the Corvette ZR1 supercar, the Corvette C6.R has strong links to the production version of America's performance icon. The GT rules require the use of many production-based components, expanding the opportunities for the two-way transfer of technology between the race track and the showroom. The Corvette C6.R utilizes the ZR1's body design, aerodynamic package, aluminum frame and chassis structure, steering system, windshield, and other components. The race team has prepared the cars for the rigors of endurance racing with safety and performance modifications as permitted by the rulebook."
http://www.corvetteracing.com/2011-overview.shtml
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth.
- John F. Kennedy
Ok guys get back on topic at hand this is about the car and photos Geoff posted
Sin fix- you have still failed miserably. I will list exactly how, if you wish to redeem yourself please address each one...
1. You still have not shown me one single 90's jdm/import tuner that compared or out performed the 1990-1995 zr1 or 92-95 dodge viper.
2. The only model you presented was a 96 porsche 911 gt2....this car had an msrp twice that of a zr1 or viper and was limited to a production run less than 100 units=fail.
3.The new 911 turbo has an msrp of $160,000 as a Zr1 msrp is 114,000. With $46,000 to play with difference i promise you the zr1 wins 10/10.
4. Show me a 90's model, mass produced, jdm vehicle that out performs the 90's viper/zr1
5. I will make it easier. Beat this car. 1998 Firebird formula v8. 305hp( underrated)340tq: 1/4 mile 13.1-13.5 with msrp of $22,865. Find me an import or euro car that out performs the 1998 ls1 firebird formula for an original msrp under $23,000...
By the way, the 1995 Corvette ZR1 had an msrp of $31,258. For a car that had 400hp/385tq 1/4 mile in 12.7-12.9 and still got 27mpg hwy. I would say america was and has always been king of the streets. Name any high dollar performance car from any era and i can show you an american made example that beats it...probably for half the price too lol.
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
After that...lets get back to the topic. What are your opinions of the t/a i posted?
riding for God crew member #1
IA Domestic Alliance
Radial Revolution didn't have any imports running there - all were domestics for the last few years. Slowest cars there run about 11.0 in the 1/4. Maybe this month they will have a 240 run - but I doubt it.
Let's all go to the track...... :-)
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
so i have to pick an asian sports compact that out performs an american supercar stock????Originally Posted by geoff
You asking me to do this proves how right i am.
You changing this to a $ vs $ argument also proves i'm right. $ vs $ i'll take a fox mustang over any car in the world, that doesnt mean its the best car in the world. A Krystal is the food you can get for $.65 that doesnt mean it's better than a TBone steak. The reason a porsche cost more than a camaro is because its a better car.
A 98 Supra, Rx7, NSX, EVO, Skyline are all middle tier sports cars that are better than a 98 Firebird.
I like T/As, i do HATE the taillights though, so him clearing them out and making them more noticeable was a big nono for me. blacked out honeycomb tails and i'd love it. either way, my undying love for anything with t-tops would make me forget about it.
Bring that car to the track or street with my car!! Put the equal money in the zr1 and see what would happen.. as just a pully swap would murder the porshe... Under my hood is Real all American muscle... Muscle cars back in the day we're big blocks in big cars !! Well the lsx let us have big block cubes in our cars which makes vettes THE BEST modern day MUSCLE not a porshe ...
This will out run the new zr1.
can't believe your arguing about imports being compaired in the same class...
Ws6 is a great muscle car !! Looks mean bud. More pics !!
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
completely different argument to bring up $ vs $. Give me half the money you have in your Z06 and i'll build a foxbody that will absolutely crush your corvette.
i see a plastic pontiac that can't drive in 2 inches of snow, or take a 90 degree turn on the track at speed...
and yes, i've owned 1 (and only 1) trans am in the past... 87 GTA with the turbo 6 (fastest production TA until the WS/6)... and i still wouldn't trade my "econobox" civic for either and $10k...
You're right - I have no idea what I'm talking about...
The WS6 is actually a handling package. Does around a .85 skid pad and a 65ish mph slalom, not horrible for a big american sports car.
Actually, it's simple to do a turbo upgrade on a 996TT. redr1 on here has one, and with very little cost in upgrades (re-tune and upgraded turbo impellers), he made 600hp, and drives like stock. Of course, his 10 yr old used car cost as much as a pretty new Corvette. BTW - he sold his Z06 (he had one of those also for a long time, and it wasn't stock).
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Let me put my choice in tires on it, and I'd run against that Civic on RA. :-)
BTW - I like that sig pic - you can see where everyone else has gone off the track, and you are still going in the right direction. :-) Nice and subtle....
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Sorry that still wouldnt happen!! Hey smart guy my car is z51(grandsport)...
I've built 2 coupes, procharged 408 and nitrous also my friend has a 788 hp coupe and guess who one... 5 speed to 6 and they can't do shit against a c6 vette autos are for pussys !!!
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
There are only 2 fast Vettes - Lynch and Berry. All the rest of the fast cars are foxbodies...... :-p
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
so because you beat that one car that one time means you can beat all cars? I've beat a corvette before.... so clearly i could beat your corvette or any other corvette.
If you went to an NMRA event with $100,000 cash, you'd be able to purchase every single outlaw 10.5 car in the field. That's all i have to say about foxbody vs corvette $vs$.
Its obvious you have never been in or drivin a REal supercar much less stock sports car...
Maybe I'll give you a glacé at one at thE next vmeet
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
Lynch was a mustang man first
Outlaw car Lol you comparing my street car to a outlaw car haha if u want to do that then
Look up Tim lynch on youtube his c6 outlaw car holds works record and one of my close friends built his car... Nuff said
Also
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
you're obviously a delusional self righteous corvette fan boy. If you honestly think there's no foxbody out there who can beat you, i dont know what to say to you.... other than how much for the rose colored glasses you see the world thru?
yeah.... because Tim Lynch's mustang didnt hold the same record for years?????...... Tim Lynch is fast because Tim Lynch is fast.
you're the one crying and bowing out of the comparison to euro supercars because they cost more. $ vs $, i can buy an outlaw mustang for the price of a new corvette.
Well when you have something or anyone else does I'll show you there are more than 2 fast track cars!
Since mines a 6 speed street car...
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
Hey nutswinger that has no dog in any fight get off your moms tit and get a real car..
I've raced more than 300 races most on video about 100 passes at the track...
I've owned more mustangs than vettes !! But mustangs just can't be made fast for a street car unless powered by Chevy!!!!
I'm not saying there isn't a notch out there but making fun of your comparisons u must have a 5 year old mentality
Later luz
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
i argue that European supercars are better than american supercars.... THEY ARE.
You revert to a $v$ argument, then i bring up foxbodies and you start crying about me picking an outlaw car......... outlaw cars sell for less than your z06...... i win that argument to.
So, now... since youre mad..... take your toys and go home.
ATTENTION IMPORT ATLANTA!!!!! ZOSICK HAS LEFT THE SANDBOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do have something - a foxbody. Are you coming to run at SGMP for Lights Out? There will be plenty of foxbodies running there, and a lot of them are street cars.
BTW - I actually like Corvettes also. Out of the box, they are better than 90% of cars, and much nicer than a comparably priced Mustang. We both know that any car can be made fast with enough money.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
The mustang is probably about $20,000 cheaper than the Zr1..... wonder which one is faster $vs$....
hmmmm...... hard decision.
You forgetting a few things.... A few most obvious ones but hey your not the brightest crayon..
Fn spell ck
Last edited by ZOSICK; 02-02-2012 at 12:11 PM.
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
You didn't build them right then. They are easy to make into fast street cars, but not on the stock 302 block. The stock 302 block is just too weak. The 351 is much stronger, and can make 750-800rwhp easily.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
Hey stupid my car is a c6 not a z06 nada 28k smart retard!!
A outlaw full chassis and motor set up is over that durrrr ..
I wouldnt know anything though...( Z0sick) was my 01 z06 car
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
Easy decision - I'll take the ZR1 and enjoy it every day.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
yep.
Correct - and you can't buy an Outlaw for $28K, that's for certain.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
28k = a foxbody faster than you.
For 28k, you could build a foxbody to out run your corvette, a truck and trailer to pull it with and buy everyone at the race a hotdog.
me too.... but we're arguing speed. which one is faster $v$
Not really. I'll have more than that in my foxbody as soon as I change my bottom end.
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting." - Steve McQueen
WhEn and where I'll deff be at mce track day, if that track your going too will let me run.. Ill try and make it..
My car street car na req rollcage etc
C6 Z51 FORGED & STROKED BUILT BY LWA OUT DOIN WORK
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