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Thread: Porsche calls out Nissan's bull****

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    Stops the Resistance 81911SC's Avatar
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    Default Porsche calls out Nissan's bull****

    http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/mo...t_nurburgring/

    Porsche has accused Nissan of cheating in the GT-R's record bid at the Nurburgring racetrack.

    Porsche has just run its own back-to-back tests with the Japanese company's GT-R supercar and says it could not get within 25 seconds of Nissan's claimed record time of seven minutes 29 seconds in April.

    It also found its 911 Turbo and GT2 were both quicker than the GT-R.

    "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car," says August Achleitner, the 911 product chief for Porsche, speaking to the CARSguide at the Australian press preview of the latest 911 Cabrio.

    "For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tyres."

    He believes the time achieved by Nissan with ex-Formula One driver Toshio Suzuki would only be possible with a semi-slick race-style tyre.

    Achleitner says Porsche took a standard GT-R, running on regular road tyres, and ran it around the Nurburgring within two hours of its own cars, on the same day with exactly the same weather conditions.

    He says there was no tweaking of any kind and the GT2 and Turbo both ran on regular Porsche road tyres, the Michelin Sport Cup.

    "We bought the car in the US. We drove a GT-R with new tyres," he says.

    Achleitner was initially protective of the exact lap times, which were run during a program when Porsche also compared its upcoming four-door Panamera with a range of potential rivals.

    But he eventually revealed his team clocked the GT-R at 7 minutes 54 seconds, with the 911 Turbo managing 7:38 and the GT2 getting down to 7:34.

    The laps were not run by Porsche's usual hot-lap specialist, former world rally champion and race winner Walter Rohrl, but one of the company's chassis development engineers who is an expert on the Nurburgring.

    Achleitner says the back-to-back comparison was run because Porsche was concerned by Nissan's claims for the GT-R, which is heavier than the 911 with similar power.

    "The Nissan is a good car. I don't want to make anything bad with my words," he says.

    "It's a very consistent car. But this car is about 20 kilos heavier than the Turbo . . ."

    In the end, Porsche believes its testing has achieved the right lap times for the Skyline GT-R and benchmarked it against its own 911 heroes in the right context.

    "For us it has been clearly the result. This technical puzzle now fits together. With the other numbers we had problems to understand it," he says.

  2. #2
    ....and my top let back umairejaz's Avatar
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    lol, owned.

    Learning everyday.

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    STILL HERE!! tron's Avatar
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    *waits for complete war*
    “Alfalfa peak”—an odd ridge on a car that is otherwise a lava-lamp jubilee of rounded Oprah-ness.

    -car and driver, 370z review

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    Yep... IDCoconut's Avatar
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    It's been uncovered on several sites already, Gene. Several 7 Turbo owners have already seen GTR's fall flat on its face on track and on highway rolls against 997 Turbos.

    It's a great car for the bargain, but they made it seem like it's a better bargain when it's really barely in the ballpark of a new Z06.

  5. #5

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    WOW, that really makes you respect the ACR viper THAT much more!
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    Senior Member | IA Veteran Elbow's Avatar
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    LOL where's NissanRic3r he will tell us why this is.

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    ☠gOOn☠ Brian*'s Avatar
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    Crazy* I would rather have an R33 or 34 anyway..

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    Delightfully Creepy Ran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simontibbett
    LOL where's NissanRic3r he will tell us why this is.
    The obvious reasoning for this is that Porsche weenies can't drive. If they had a real driver in the GT-R it would have decimated the "me-too" Porsche.




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    Senior Member Capt._Ron's Avatar
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    I have been saying the entire time that Ring Lap times are not a good measurement of a cars performance. There are too many factors other than the cars performance that determine lap times.

  10. #10
    sukanigadikosum DieselNuts's Avatar
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    I wonder if they had anything to say about the ZR1 times.

    I heard somewhere that the GTR's time was a full throttle @ top speed on the back straight. Do you think that vs. a stand still start at the pit exit would be enough to offset the 25sec difference?

  11. #11

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    I liked the Original starting grid, its very low speed and you have to fight for position. The new grid is a drag race to the 1st turn.
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    Senior Member | IA Veteran  OneSlow5pt0's Avatar
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    nah thiers nothing wrong with the ZR1 times.........if anything it could be faster

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    1010011010 Atlblkz06's Avatar
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    The whole ring thing is pissin me off because there is no standard.

    Short lap, long lap?
    Flying start, standing start?
    Tires?

    For the numbers to mean anything there has to be some set standard. Without it, the numbers don't really mean anything in a head-to-head comparison.

    When looked at individually though, the Viper ACR sure is a stunner!

    I wonder exactly what they did to the GT-R to make it quicker. No matter what they did, 7:29 is damn quick for a hulking 4000lb beast (with driver)!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlblkz06
    The whole ring thing is pissin me off because there is no standard.

    Short lap, long lap?
    Flying start, standing start?
    Tires?

    For the numbers to mean anything there has to be some set standard. Without it, the numbers don't really mean anything in a head-to-head comparison.

    When looked at individually though, the Viper ACR sure is a stunner!

    I wonder exactly what they did to the GT-R to make it quicker. No matter what they did, 7:29 is damn quick for a hulking 4000lb beast (with driver)!
    Who knows what they did. Some have been given GT-Rs to test and they made significantly higher power than baseline Gt-Rs that were bought on the side to use as a comparison. Possibly upped the boost and threw on some slicks, who knows. It's pretty common knowledge Nissan has been doing some classic sandbagging with the Gt-R.

  15. #15
    Crazed Impressions
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    hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    dumbass GTR
    --Crazed Impressions


  16. #16
    ballin on a budget RL...'s Avatar
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    either way, gtr pwns all


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    AmbitiousButRubbish EJ25RUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NissanTun3r
    either way, gtr pwns all
    there is no hope for you.

  18. #18
    Senior Member | IA Veteran Elbow's Avatar
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    lol

  19. #19
    Stops the Resistance 81911SC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NissanTun3r
    either way, gtr pwns all

  20. #20
    AmbitiousButRubbish EJ25RUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlblkz06
    The whole ring thing is pissin me off because there is no standard.

    First Part

    Short lap, long lap?
    Flying start, standing start?
    Tires?

    For the numbers to mean anything there has to be some set standard. Without it, the numbers don't really mean anything in a head-to-head comparison.

    When looked at individually though, the Viper ACR sure is a stunner!

    Second Part

    I wonder exactly what they did to the GT-R to make it quicker. No matter what they did, 7:29 is damn quick for a hulking 4000lb beast (with driver)!
    Part 1.

    The lap is the North Loop circuit that does not cross into the grand prix course. It is a distance of 20.8 km.

    It is a flying start and speed over start/finish all depends on the car's drive out of the final right hander. The beam sits right at the exit of the old pit lane.

    Tires....well in spirit this should be what the car is sold. I can't comment about this Porsche claim yet as i have to read more about what is going on. The 911 is my favorite car but i don't have a fan boy mentality so i wanna look into this fully before i say something.

    Part 2.

    Again, the 7:29 might have become an "if" as of today so I'll focus on what makes that car as fast as it should be. Even if the GTR did have semi slicks on it, a proper street tire would bring the time down by about 6-7 secs. (Remember this is 13 miles) But the GTR's most amazing feature is the electronics in the 4wd and transmission. This eliminates understeer and oversteer to the point where a driver can imagine they don't exist. That is what gives it that ability.

    As i have said from the beginning...It is almost like it drives itself.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    Part 2.

    Again, the 7:29 might have become an "if" as of today so I'll focus on what makes that car as fast as it should be. Even if the GTR did have semi slicks on it, a proper street tire would bring the time down by about 6-7 secs. (Remember this is 13 miles) But the GTR's most amazing feature is the electronics in the 4wd and transmission. This eliminates understeer and oversteer to the point where a driver can imagine they don't exist. That is what gives it that ability.

    As i have said from the beginning...It is almost like it drives itself.
    Porsche's time would be significantly better if they'd pick better tires to put on the car stock. Regardless the GT-R's 7:29 lap time was done by someone with many hours of time in the car who understood exactly how far it can be pushed before it reaches the limit. Ring runs are a test of two things: Performance and balls. I'm not saying the Porsche driver didn't have balls, I'm simply saying that there's no fair way to use Porsche's "back to back" comparison when the driver is a CHASSIS DEVELOPER for Porsche, he spends a LOT of time in 911's. Rear-engined cars, even AWD ones, DO NOT HANDLE LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. I've met plenty of people who considered themselves quite fast who could not handle a 911. I'm sure someone who's spent a good chunk of their career thinking about developing that chassis is going to drive a nose-heavy wide-shouldered car like the GT-R quite differently than someone who perhaps may have spent as many hours in a GT-R as the Porsche driver in a 911.

    Let's be honest about this. This isn't a good comparison, it's Porsche playing games. The 911 turbo is fast, but it takes alot of skill to be able to drive one fast. That kind of skill comes with dedication and time.

    The GT-R is fast out of the box, and only becomes truly ridiculous when you have a driver who can set aside their fear and truly 100% trust in the car's road-grip abilities. Besides that, the two GT-R's in showrooms had three-groove near-slicks. Dunno if that's what Nissan considers stock tires or not on it though, the dealership guys don't even wanna talk to me about it when the car is there.

  22. #22
    AmbitiousButRubbish EJ25RUN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser
    Porsche's time would be significantly better if they'd pick better tires to put on the car stock. Regardless the GT-R's 7:29 lap time was done by someone with many hours of time in the car who understood exactly how far it can be pushed before it reaches the limit. Ring runs are a test of two things: Performance and balls. I'm not saying the Porsche driver didn't have balls, I'm simply saying that there's no fair way to use Porsche's "back to back" comparison when the driver is a CHASSIS DEVELOPER for Porsche, he spends a LOT of time in 911's. Rear-engined cars, even AWD ones, DO NOT HANDLE LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. I've met plenty of people who considered themselves quite fast who could not handle a 911. I'm sure someone who's spent a good chunk of their career thinking about developing that chassis is going to drive a nose-heavy wide-shouldered car like the GT-R quite differently than someone who perhaps may have spent as many hours in a GT-R as the Porsche driver in a 911.

    Let's be honest about this. This isn't a good comparison, it's Porsche playing games. The 911 turbo is fast, but it takes alot of skill to be able to drive one fast. That kind of skill comes with dedication and time.

    The GT-R is fast out of the box, and only becomes truly ridiculous when you have a driver who can set aside their fear and truly 100% trust in the car's road-grip abilities. Besides that, the two GT-R's in showrooms had three-groove near-slicks. Dunno if that's what Nissan considers stock tires or not on it though, the dealership guys don't even wanna talk to me about it when the car is there.
    2 things.

    First: i have yet to really go over these claims by Porsche.

    Second. Walter Rohrl can handle much more than just a 911. Both of his wrc crowns came from FR cars and with the Opel, he beat Audi's quattro. I'm 100% sure that Rohrl is more capable than 99% of the people in this world to get the most out of any car what so ever around that track. No matter what chassis it is. Remember Rohrl was the fastest in the Carrera GT which is obliviously mid engined and he used to race Audi's Pikes Peak car.

    No did Porsche use Rohrl for these tests? I have to find out. I'll probably go over it tomorrow. I'm not against the GTR and maybe this is all just accusations of nothing. I'll just wait and see where it goes from here.

    Another note.

    Yes, the 911 is built to be more of a drivers car while the GTR is a processor with wheels.

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    jort enthusiast alpine_aw11's Avatar
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    Of course the 911 and GT-R will have very different track manners, but if the guy was a professional driver and couldn't get within 25 seconds then that says something. 25 seconds is a pretty big difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    2 things.
    No did Porsche use Rohrl for these tests? I have to find out. I'll probably go over it tomorrow. I'm not against the GTR and maybe this is all just accusations of nothing. I'll just wait and see where it goes from here.

    Another note.

    Yes, the 911 is built to be more of a drivers car while the GTR is a processor with wheels.
    ^^Thank you and one of the post said that they didn't use Rohrl for this comparison test. Regardless they used the same driver for all three cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    Of course the 911 and GT-R will have very different track manners, but if the guy was a professional driver and couldn't get within 25 seconds then that says something. 25 seconds is a pretty big difference.
    Exactly....that just screams sand bagging

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    resident honda hater redrumracer's Avatar
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    lol thats awesome

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    jort enthusiast alpine_aw11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Youngn
    Exactly....that just screams sand bagging
    Yea, and we all know Nissan probably would do it. I'm not going to clearly state Nissan modified their testing GT-R, but if Porsche's information is true then Nissan is bull****ting pretty bad. And on top of all this, I'm sure it would be easier to get the best time possible in a GT-R than a 911 Turbo. Way easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alpine_xj
    Yea, and we all know Nissan probably would do it. I'm not going to clearly state Nissan modified their testing GT-R, but if Porsche's information is true then Nissan is bull****ting pretty bad. And on top of all this, I'm sure it would be easier to get the best time possible in a GT-R than a 911 Turbo. Way easier.
    Yea because the GTR is the one driving the car as opposed to the actual driver doing the driving in the Turbo and GT2

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    1010011010 Atlblkz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    The GTR is a processor with wheels.
    Well said. That is why it excites me more than any other car. I'm a computer nerd before I am a car enthusiast

    The 911 uses Michelin Pilot Sport tires which are as close to DOT legal slicks as you can get. Michelin pretty much says "Drive to the track and back but don't use these tires every day".

  30. #30
    Yep... IDCoconut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    But the GTR's most amazing feature is the electronics in the 4wd and transmission. This eliminates understeer and oversteer to the point where a driver can imagine they don't exist. That is what gives it that ability.

    Apparently, this guy did not get that memo, LOL.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3mppVrzVOE

    And no, the white P-car was not the cause of the spin out. Driver just simply lost it.

    Great car, but just had too much hype behind it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlblkz06
    Well said. That is why it excites me more than any other car. I'm a computer nerd before I am a car enthusiast

    The 911 uses Michelin Pilot Sport tires which are as close to DOT legal slicks as you can get. Michelin pretty much says "Drive to the track and back but don't use these tires every day".
    Sport Cup. But they do say drive on them everyday. They only warn you to be EXTRA careful in the wet

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    Man i love competition among automakers.
    I do believe that porsche are over priced. Paying premium for exotic brand is not my thing.

    Give me new m3 or audi RS series anyday over porsche.. unless your talking about GT3 RS or carrera gt oh god.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MS3ZZ
    Man i love competition among automakers.
    I do believe that porsche are over priced. Paying premium for exotic brand is not my thing.

    Give me new m3 or audi RS series anyday over porsche.. unless your talking about GT3 RS or carrera gt oh god.
    you know the cost of Porsches? "Paying premium for exotic brand..." Compare the performance and prices of Porsches compared to actualy EXOTIC brands.

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    I mostly meant hp per dollar value along with my general preferences. Sorry should have clarified that.

    I always considered posche as exotic and benz, bmw and lexus etc as premium hence my comparison choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MS3ZZ
    I mostly meant hp per dollar value along with my general preferences. Sorry should have clarified that.

    I always considered posche as exotic and benz, bmw and lexus etc as premium hence my comparison choice.
    So what you're saying is that you're rather pay premium price for a premium car over premium price for exotic car? Whatever floats your boat

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    amt of premium you pay for premium and exotic brand is different. That's what im saying here. No need to interpret that deeply.

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    ballin on a budget RL...'s Avatar
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    I saw your porsche cayman at a sonic meet, it's badass. Prob one of the nicest cars here in ia.

    I'd spend my money on a gt-r though...


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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ25RUN
    Part 1.

    The lap is the North Loop circuit that does not cross into the grand prix course. It is a distance of 20.8 km.

    It is a flying start and speed over start/finish all depends on the car's drive out of the final right hander. The beam sits right at the exit of the old pit lane.

    Tires....well in spirit this should be what the car is sold. I can't comment about this Porsche claim yet as i have to read more about what is going on. The 911 is my favorite car but i don't have a fan boy mentality so i wanna look into this fully before i say something.

    Part 2.

    Again, the 7:29 might have become an "if" as of today so I'll focus on what makes that car as fast as it should be. Even if the GTR did have semi slicks on it, a proper street tire would bring the time down by about 6-7 secs. (Remember this is 13 miles) But the GTR's most amazing feature is the electronics in the 4wd and transmission. This eliminates understeer and oversteer to the point where a driver can imagine they don't exist. That is what gives it that ability.

    As i have said from the beginning...It is almost like it drives itself.


    slicks would let you drop WAY more than 6-7 seconds... you can easily drop 4-5 at RA between street tires and eve shaved dot-r's, and its less than 1/10th the length of the ring...
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    1010011010 Atlblkz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDCoconut
    Apparently, this guy did not get that memo, LOL.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3mppVrzVOE

    And no, the white P-car was not the cause of the spin out. Driver just simply lost it.

    Great car, but just had too much hype behind it.
    This doesn't prove anything. I've seen the same situation with a Z06. You know what, the car was totaled.

    I'm sure everything depends on which mode you run in as well. In "R" mode all the nannies are off. NOTHING can correct the fatal mistake of a an incompetent driver behind the wheel though. Well, maybe the GT-R can.

  40. #40
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    I trust Top Gear...
    Independence from both companies

    Will Nissan says 911 is a better car than a GTR?
    Will Porsche says GTR is a better car than a 911?

    NO!!!

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