D16y8...does it have potential?
ok, so one of my cars that i own is 97 ex civic. does a d16y8 have good potential as far as seeing significant gains in horses without boosting it. what do you guys recommend if i decided to beef up the engine? or would i be wasting money fooling with it.
i got one in my 93 delsol! i got intake, header, and 2 1/4 in exhaust! i moves okay but torque is no where to be found! if i had the money i would rip it apart and put high comp pistons and build the head! i kept up with a stock b16 in a civic. fuk it just juice it!!
yes, the y8 does have potential... it really just depends on how much money you have to spend and what you are willing to do to it... you can always do the infamous p29 high-comp piston setup with a nice cam... and it will yield you some decent horsepower... the y8's already have a pretty decent intake manifold stock...
Originally Posted by SiRed94
agreed
boost it
get a b, h, or k series and sell the y8 to me
my friend has a ek with a y8 motor with some gsr mods and its pretty fast...smoke stock gsr all day..i believe he was running low 15's with stock tires and a p28 ecu
I'm curious to know what kind of gsr mods you can do to a y8.?.?...
i believe he had gsr fuel injectors, fuel rail, fuel reg. fuel pump and b16 throttle body or a gsr...
before I head to the shop... ill shed some light
this is some stuff ive found before that might help!!
bottom end
your best bet is to try to keep your compression below 12:1, in fact between to 11.5-11:1 would be ideal. The piston i prefer for all setups is the p29 from 88-89 Integra d16a1. This piston is also found under the pm7 designation in the Japanese DOHC ZC. The reason i like it is because i know it works for all setups; there are no valve relief issues re: big cams, head configuration, etc. The catch with this piston is it has a lot of dome, so you will need to tailor your compression ratio by using assorted headgasket thicknesses. This selection depends on some things-
1. Fuel quality/availability
2. Head; the z6 head combustion chamber is larger than the y8 head, enough that, all else equal, the y8 head can raise the compression ratio approximately 1/2 point vs. a z6 head.
These suggestions are assuming you have close to a stock surface level head…meaning unmilled or no more than .010 milled. If you have more than that milled, you need to adjust the headgasket choice accordingly using one of the reliable d-series compression calculators available. The headgaskets I suggest are OE Honda metal 3-layer, A’pexi 1.1mm (.043”) PN 814-h101, A’pexi 1.5mm (.059”) PN 814-h102, or Greddy 2mm (.079”)
Some baseline configurations…(ratios are approximate static compression, assuming stock bore and unmilled head)
- y8 head w/ 91 octane – 2mm HG – 11.2:1 CR
- y8 head w/ 93-94 oct – 1.5mm HG – 11:8 CR
- z6 head w/ 91 octane – 1.5mm HG – 11.3:1 CR
- z6 head w/ 93-94 oct - .037 OE HG – 12:1 CR
Please note: some of the 93/94 setups have more room for compression, so another .010 off of the head through milling would be ideal. Typically, a .5 overbore will add approx. 1/10 a point of compression. My ideal bottom end for this setup is composed of all stock components. The stock rods are capable and rather lightweight pieces which should be at minimum shot-peened, a process that is cheap and adds strength. I would even feel safe at 200whp if these rods were shot-peened and cryogenically treated, which is a deep-freezing process that even strengthens them further. A popular upgrade is installing ARP rod bolts. This stems from the fact that a high-compression D with a big cam needs some more revs than stock, and with a 90mm stroke, the stresses on the rod bolts are incredible. I recommend all new bearings, Honda OE pieces, color/ number matched to the crank and at minimum plastigauged. Cylinder treatment is up to you- I personally like to over-bore to 75.5mm…any added displacement helps a 1.6L. Nippon Manufacturing offers 76mm cast p29 pistons, however, I do not agree with going that big overbore. I believe there is a reason Honda offers a max .5mm overbore, and that is with a stock engine! At any rate, over-bore is not necessary: 75mm is more readily available used and boring cost additional dollars. Honda recommends that if there are no score marks and cross-hatch is visible, do not hone, however, I recommend to at the least check cylinders for ovalling and hone per Honda’s bore/hone specs. Honda OE rings are wonderful. Stock wrist pins are fine, but I suggest using new ones. Make sure that the piston tops are smooth: the better the polished surface, the less chance for detonation. Balance the entire bottom end to 10,000 rpm. I feel compelled to mention that there has been talk about the y8 oil pumps being inferior re: oil supply vs. z6. I have used y8 oil pump with not one issue of such starvation, however, if you prefer, manufacturer TOGA offers a higher volume oil pump for this application.
Head
People bicker about which head is supreme and for good reason. The z6 head has ideal ports for better flow and the y8 head has a better and smaller combustion chamber, which resists detonation. I used to suggest using the head that is easiest to adapt to your chassis, but i no longer feel that way. This originated in the fact that the engine harness plugs for an obd1 z6 distributor will not work with the y8 distributor, and vice versa...and, you can't use the z6 dizzy on the y8 head because the arms will not line up. I feel that the best bet is to use the z6 head. If your are putting this in an obd2 car, then take the insides out of the y7/y8 distributor and put them in a z6 distributor so the arms can line up to the head. I feel it's worth it. A z6 head has straight ports called tumble ports and a y8 head has off-set ports called swirl ports. Without getting too crazy describing them, the tumble ports can promote the best top end and the swirl port can offer somewhat better low rpm torque and better mixture and MPG with the right tune. But the bottom line is the ports are offset with the y8 head and that will limit your top end power making capability. It's not to say that you can't make power with a y8 head, you can, but it's just not going to be able to go where the z6 head can as far as high-end power, flow and rpm. Granted, the y8 chamber offers better resistance to detonation due to it having more quench area; part of the reason they made the CC smaller was to fit these areas. Make sure that all edges of the CC are smooth to prevent hot spots. Another performance difference is the ports.A requirement for high-horsepower NA is porting. You NEED to have a properly ported head to eclipse 150 whp. Even a mild-port job will suffice, however, the more extravagant the porting, the more power potential. The cam to use is the Crower Stage 3 cam, hands down. Regrinds are limited (amongst other things) and other fresh billet cams are just not optimized the way the Crower profile is. It has the most advanced profile for these engines and offers the broadest power band. Again, this cam requires porting to be effective, and also you must install valve springs and Ti retainers, Crower. I use new stock keepers, however, you may feel inclined to use performance branded ones. Their Ti compound is very resistant to wear, it's called Ti-17 and is supposedly tougher than the stuff everyone else uses, 6AL4V. An adjustable cam gear might be necessary for tuning, though I find that Crower Cams do not need incredible adjustment. I ended up keeping mine at "0". Please note: there is a difference between z6 and y8 cam gears. The only cam gear I recommend is AEM. They have the difference between the keyways of the z6 and y8 nailed. Many manufacturers DO NOT! New OE timing belt is fine. OE valves are fine. A 3 angle valve job will assure consistent seat seal. I use OE Honda head bolts, however, they can only be used once so if you want to, ARP head studs are ideal for those of you who like to take the head on and off. Make sure to contact ARP for their recommendations on which combination or kit to get…block and head configurations cover a vast array of different ARP sets. I recommend using HYLOMAR spray gasket coating available through VALCO Cinicinnati. Torque the head as per stock specs or ARP specs, however, if you are using an extension, remember to compensate by adding 5 ft/lbs or so on the wrench!
Last edited by JRDman; 12-03-2007 at 11:24 PM.
bolt-ons
I recommend a smooth-tract tube cold-air intake of 3” diameter. It provides a nice torque hump at low rpm and also offers access to more dense air. An upgraded throttle body is optimum, 62-65mm are popular options. The intake manifold is very important. My favorite is the Skunk2 offering. It is cheap and works well and has a 62mm ID TB bore. There have been issues with quality control with the entire Skunk2 line, however, several Skunk2 intake manifolds (h22, b20, sohc) were manufactured in factories with good QC so the risks are low. I have had no issues with mine nor has AgentJam. Fitment is poor in an EG, and really tight in an EF (but doable). EK fitment is fine, however, some adjustment will have to be done to a few brackets on the firewall. If you have an EG, I might suggest the Edelbrock unit. It is expensive, but is superior to any OE manifold. I do not know about adapting a tube cold air to it, since that manifold has a unique angle for the throttle body. Port-matching is ideal for this manifold to your head, however, I did not see a need for it with my particular setup. Inspect yours to see if the path of runner-gasket-port is smooth.
Header choice is limited to one- SMSP. Contact member SMSP for price info, however, this header is not cheap. It comes in mild-steel, so coating will make it even more expensive. The thing is, it makes the most power of any header available that works with A/C and/or P/S. In fact, I would pit it against the crazy headers that due to their bends don’t allow for these creature comforts. The exhaust is up to you, I just would make sure there are no sudden restrictions or dips in inside diameter. I prefer a 2.25 ID. Not having a cat is ideal, however, SMSP offers some high performance functioning catalysts if you can get away with that in your area. An ignition is not necessary, however, i feel it helps. A multiple spark unit with external coil assures complete combustion and spark survival in the storm of high-compression cylinder conditions. I prefer either NGK wires or Nology Hotwires (if you have the money). Both work fine, however, I have found various small improvements in a few areas with the Hotwires. Dyno sheets with these will be coming soon vs. NGK. Stock rotor is fine with an MSD Cap. MSD now offers performance rotors, this might be something to consider.
tuning
To assure your build doesn’t die from a dying fuel pump, I recommend an upgrade to a 255lph fuel pump from Walbro. Yeah, it’s overkill, but it cost the same as the 190lph and is not any less reliable, so just get it. A new fuel pump is a wonderful thing. Stock injectors are perfect for this build, provided they are not dirty. Most of the smaller displacement 1.6-.8 Honda injectors are 240cc. The lone exception is d16y7 injectors are 190cc, so do not use these. Your best bet is to send the 240’s you choose to RC Engineering to get them balanced and flowed. Fuel pressure regulator upgrade is recommended, even though you will have a tuneable ecu. The reason is optimum atomization occurs @ 55psi with these Honda injectors, which is a significant amount over stock spec. I got this information from SOHC VTEC legend Nathan Tasukon who did extensive testing with his company Motec. I like the on-rail AEM unit as it is perfect. It’s got a reliable diaphragm, and adjustable return orifices, meaning you won’t have issues with the big fuel pump like you would if you used a modified stock FPR (like the Vortech, B&M, Hayame, etc). The spark plugs to use are NGK bkr6e-11 or 7e-11. The heat range depends on a few things. If you are running the lower tier compression levels (<11.5:1), then a 6 should be fine year-round. If you are in the higher compression bracket, then you might want to run a 6 in cold weather and a 7 in hotter weather; that is what I do. To get the target NA power levels, obd1 conversion is necessary due to its extensive tuning capabilities, unless you are using an obd2 adaptable engine management like A’pexi Power FC or AEM EMS. The Power FC is what I use and I feel it is an incredible value for what it offers. On-board parameter monitoring, knock monitor, etc & light adjustments via the in-cabin commander, with deep tuning capability via PC. It also features a very powerful idle stability feature which keeps the wild Crower 3 cam stable in all idle conditions. Some viable tuning options are Neptune, Hondata, Uberdata, etc. Full tuning range is required, both timing, fuel, and various other parameters where stock settings will not suffice.
Damn, I don't think anyone could say anymore on this subject after that ^^^
That's perfect depending what kind of budget he's on though. The ^ above won't be cheap, but it'd be an awesome build.
the above build is actually mostly OEM parts and if you search hard enough you can find hella good deals.
beat a f22 cd5 accord today with my d16y8!!
jrdman has pretty much said it.
unless you boost it....then its a whole new category of parts and whatnot.
there is alot of potential in those motors. What I posted is just a compilation of all sorts of different facts ive gathered over the years and its simply the basics. theres more than you can imagine as to what you can do with a D series. Most people do the two simple ways to make power .. boost... or swap.
something else is if you do build the D up the D produces more torque than a stock B (Si or GSR) so you have a little bit of an advantage there. but no matter what you do it will cost money so you need to either save for the whole thing at once or build it right, in stages the first time.
CJ
turbo it!
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ha. really though. that's what i'd do.
i've seen some pretty badass all motor d series. i won't lie. but yeah. if i were going all motor i'd start with something a little bigger like an h22.
TUrbo FTW
Even a 75 shot tuned be nice, which would be like a 5-7 lbs of boost
agreed, only d series to run with my si is a hatch, usually a 91 with mods, i have ran a couple of eg hatches w/ obd-0 b16 and pulled on them in my heavy ass si, but i also have mods. i would like to run this guy for ****s and giggles.
Check out my for sale threads!! 15" competition speakerbox, 1TB External hard drive, and plenty of car parts!!!
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preferredduck,
which guy is it your wanting to run for ****s and giggles??
the y8 with the gsr mods that smokes gsr's. i have to see that, and run it for fun. my car isn't wicked fast though i have raced some auto's that are faster than my car and beat them. its hard to screw up a 1/4 mile time in an auto, a fun run down 85 would be good, but i would capp the speed so notrouble. i race for fun and i love some sleepers.
Check out my for sale threads!! 15" competition speakerbox, 1TB External hard drive, and plenty of car parts!!!
I Need some WRX, 350Z, 240SX, Really any car owner to let me do R&D for Ground Kits, Please Let me See the layouts!!!
it was a motor I built for a guy. thats now a full blown road race car so i highly doubt that would happen for a "fun run" .
it does, but not as much as others
This is the motor i want to see jrdman
Check out my for sale threads!! 15" competition speakerbox, 1TB External hard drive, and plenty of car parts!!!
I Need some WRX, 350Z, 240SX, Really any car owner to let me do R&D for Ground Kits, Please Let me See the layouts!!!
gotcha preffered.
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