turbo civic putting in work

[Vteckidd]

Damn I feel like i'm in school... Moseley are you saying since you make power faster it will over come the 32hp in which his dyno shows? I'm just trying to understand the method you speak of.. If he switched only to a 6speed the gearing factor would be eliminated correct? His whole power curve would shift, peak power being more or less?

the problem with Dyno jets has always been that they TRY to really factor everything in but they cant. They are too easy to manipulate and arent really AS ACCURATE as you want them to be. They are an inertia Dyno not a load based dyno which ideally is what you want.

The way a dynojet works is it calculates how fast you turn the roller in a certain time frame and calculates your hp that way.

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Basically the dyno drum weighs a certain weight (usually 2500-3000 lbs) , it turns at a certain speed for a certain time, uses RPM, and then for lack of a super long explanation, it calculates hp and tq.

The problem with the Dynojets is it negates gearing, and gearing can really effect the TQ and powerband. A car with a 4.4 will dyno differently if you put a 4.9 in it. Tire pressure will effect HP, tire size will effect HP, etc. You wanna make 5 more whp, pump your tires up to 50PSI.

What Mose is talking about is taking the graph as a whole of his car versus gregs car, calculating the gearing differences and measuring HP that way. Basically Mosely in second gear at 5000 rpms makes XXXwhp versus greg at 5000RPMs makes XXXwhp.

Dynojets dont take into effect gear ratios, it tries to negate them or overcompensate for them.

"Area under the curve". Greg may have made 32whp more PEAK, but you can quickly make up for that difference with gearing with a much lower hp producing motor, which you wont see on a dynojet

[Moseley]

the problem with Dyno jets has always been that they TRY to really factor everything in but they cant. They are too easy to manipulate and arent really AS ACCURATE as you want them to be. They are an inertia Dyno not a load based dyno which ideally is what you want.

The way a dynojet works is it calculates how fast you turn the roller in a certain time frame and calculates your hp that way.

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Basically the dyno drum weighs a certain weight (usually 2500-3000 lbs) , it turns at a certain speed for a certain time, uses RPM, and then for lack of a super long explanation, it calculates hp and tq.

The problem with the Dynojets is it negates gearing, and gearing can really effect the TQ and powerband. A car with a 4.4 will dyno differently if you put a 4.9 in it. Tire pressure will effect HP, tire size will effect HP, etc. You wanna make 5 more whp, pump your tires up to 50PSI.

What Mose is talking about is taking the graph as a whole of his car versus gregs car, calculating the gearing differences and measuring HP that way. Basically Mosely in second gear at 5000 rpms makes XXXwhp versus greg at 5000RPMs makes XXXwhp.

Dynojets dont take into effect gear ratios, it tries to negate them or overcompensate for them.

"Area under the curve". Greg may have made 32whp more PEAK, but you can quickly make up for that difference with gearing with a much lower hp producing motor, which you wont see on a dynojet

[112480]

the problem with Dyno jets has always been that they TRY to really factor everything in but they cant. They are too easy to manipulate and arent really AS ACCURATE as you want them to be. They are an inertia Dyno not a load based dyno which ideally is what you want.

The way a dynojet works is it calculates how fast you turn the roller in a certain time frame and calculates your hp that way.

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Basically the dyno drum weighs a certain weight (usually 2500-3000 lbs) , it turns at a certain speed for a certain time, uses RPM, and then for lack of a super long explanation, it calculates hp and tq.

The problem with the Dynojets is it negates gearing, and gearing can really effect the TQ and powerband. A car with a 4.4 will dyno differently if you put a 4.9 in it. Tire pressure will effect HP, tire size will effect HP, etc. You wanna make 5 more whp, pump your tires up to 50PSI.

What Mose is talking about is taking the graph as a whole of his car versus gregs car, calculating the gearing differences and measuring HP that way. Basically Mosely in second gear at 5000 rpms makes XXXwhp versus greg at 5000RPMs makes XXXwhp.

Dynojets dont take into effect gear ratios, it tries to negate them or overcompensate for them.

"Area under the curve". Greg may have made 32whp more PEAK, but you can quickly make up for that difference with gearing with a much lower hp producing motor, which you wont see on a dynojet

Whats funny mike is that we put 50psi in the tires when it was on the dyno just to see if it would make more and it DIDNT! charles was kinda shocked but it didnt make any more power at 50psi than it did at 30psi. And mike, what would happen if we could find out the EXACT load on the street and was able to apply that to the dyno???? This is why some people would argue that street tuning a car is better than dyno tuning, b/c the load is already there on the when you street tune unlike the dyno.

Then it should be LOAD+MASS x Accleration. right?

[Vteckidd]

Whats funny mike is that we put 50psi in the tires when it was on the dyno just to see if it would make more and it DIDNT! charles was kinda shocked but it didnt make any more power at 50psi than it did at 30psi. And mike, what would happen if we could find out the EXACT load on the street and was able to apply that to the dyno???? This is why some people would argue that street tuning a car is better than dyno tuning, b/c the load is already there on the when you street tune unlike the dyno.

Then it should be LOAD+MASS x Accleration. right?

it doesnt ALWAYS change, but i have seen it change before. A lot of that comes down to just trying to find an extra 5whp and its almost impossible to get the exact number again and again back to back on a dyno. Like mosely said theres too many other factors. So at 30psi your engine oil was 5 degrees warmer than at 50psi, or your IATs were 5 degrees off, etc. Too many factors.

Dont quote me but
Work = Force x Distance

Power = Work / Time

hp = rpm x torque / 5252

However thats not exactly how a dynojet figures stuff out as it can calculate HP WITHOUT a tq reading (ever done a run where the tach signal doesnt work, it still displays a HP number)

Youre also not MOVING a dyno drum, your spinning it, so it has some sort of built in mass inertia calculation(moment of inertia something like that) that it uses to calculate hp instead of the normal way.

[David88vert]

it doesnt ALWAYS change, but i have seen it change before. A lot of that comes down to just trying to find an extra 5whp and its almost impossible to get the exact number again and again back to back on a dyno. Like mosely said theres too many other factors. So at 30psi your engine oil was 5 degrees warmer than at 50psi, or your IATs were 5 degrees off, etc. Too many factors.

Youre also not MOVING a dyno drum, your spinning it, so it has some sort of built in mass inertia calculation(moment of inertia something like that) that it uses to calculate hp instead of the normal way.

I have not seen an issue of tire pressure affecting a dyno output, but I do know that Dynapaks readings are direct - and remove the tire from the equation. Matt (the HITman) recommended Dynopaks to me, as he believes that the tire can affect readings. His opinion definitely trumps mine.

[Vteckidd]

I have not seen an issue of tire pressure affecting a dyno output, but I do know that Dynapaks readings are direct - and remove the tire from the equation. Matt (the HITman) recommended Dynopaks to me, as he believes that the tire can affect readings. His opinion definitely trumps mine.

Yeah then there are the dynopacs which require no wheels haha Well i believe the TIRE pressure issue with dynojets was effecting the contact patch. Some people said that running rediculous amounts of negative camber can change hp output as well.

[David88vert]

Yeah then there are the dynopacs which require no wheels haha Well i believe the TIRE pressure issue with dynojets was effecting the contact patch. Some people said that running rediculous amounts of negative camber can change hp output as well.

Not if the car is strapped down properly. If you have enough traction not to slip, then the only other factor would be tire sizing. If you are on a negative camber, the edge of your tire would give you a very slight change in tire sizing - that;s the only other factor that I can think of, other than the obvious traction factor.