THE FORD vs HONDA CONTINUANCE....

[BABY J]

---> Since the EFILIATED thread got closed I wanted to put my .02 in on the retarded argument that Honda is better than Ford or ViceVersa.

1) Honda is the shit. PERIOD. If you do not believe this then you are a dork.

2) Honda is an ENGINE MANUFACTURING COMPANY that also makes cars. That makes it pretty tough to compare them to almost any other AUTO MANUFACTURER directly. Furthermore, more RACING technology trickles down to commuter cars in the Honda camp than pretty much ANY other manufacturer - w/ BMW and GM probably a close 2nd, prob followed by Toyota and then Ford.

And for a little history... VTEC is the result of FAILED cvcc technology attempts from Ford. Ford got it started and could not make it work - pitched it to Honda and rejoiced b/c they thought that they just sold some JUNK to the dummies overseas until Honda beat EVERY manufacturer to market for the Clean Air Act regulations. Honda trashed the technology, kept the name (CVCC) and the rest is history. Since then, Honda has prided itself on emissions-friendly engines not gas-guzzling 500hp ozone-killers.

But MAKE NO MISTAKE about it - if they wanted to produce a production v8 the rest of the world would take fucking note, and other companies would be retarded to not buy a couple for reverse-engineering. There's a little race called the Indy 500... you may have heard of it although it's kinda grassroots. The ENTIRE 33 car field for F1 for 2010 had engines manufactured and designed by who? Enough said. IF Honda wanted to build a 2010 SHO-smashing LSx-crushing beast they could do it quite easily (w/ a little rear-axle help from Ford... 9in maybe? LOL).

I said all of this to show you that 1) the argument was dumb (although David represented) and 2) get back to the racing talk b/c you guys are obv lacking on "your roots" LOL. Happy tuning.

And no I am not a "fanboy" of anything. If it has an engine, I'm into it...

Take care kids.

[-EnVus-]

Who the Fuck would try to compare a Honda to a Ford ????
I love fords but for gas mileage and long lasting id go with Honda. I have a Civic and i still want a Mustang or a New Fusion.

[punkr6]

apples and oranges.....

[BABY J]

EXACTLY

[David88vert]

---> Since the EFILIATED thread got closed I wanted to put my .02 in on the retarded argument that Honda is better than Ford or ViceVersa.

1) Honda is the shit. PERIOD. If you do not believe this then you are a dork.

2) Honda is an ENGINE MANUFACTURING COMPANY that also makes cars. That makes it pretty tough to compare them to almost any other AUTO MANUFACTURER directly. Furthermore, more RACING technology trickles down to commuter cars in the Honda camp than pretty much ANY other manufacturer - w/ BMW and GM probably a close 2nd, prob followed by Toyota and then Ford.

And for a little history... VTEC is the result of FAILED cvcc technology attempts from Ford. Ford got it started and could not make it work - pitched it to Honda and rejoiced b/c they thought that they just sold some JUNK to the dummies overseas until Honda beat EVERY manufacturer to market for the Clean Air Act regulations. Honda trashed the technology, kept the name (CVCC) and the rest is history. Since then, Honda has prided itself on emissions-friendly engines not gas-guzzling 500hp ozone-killers.

But MAKE NO MISTAKE about it - if they wanted to produce a production v8 the rest of the world would take fucking note, and other companies would be retarded to not buy a couple for reverse-engineering. There's a little race called the Indy 500... you may have heard of it although it's kinda grassroots. The ENTIRE 33 car field for F1 for 2010 had engines manufactured and designed by who? Enough said. IF Honda wanted to build a 2010 SHO-smashing LSx-crushing beast they could do it quite easily (w/ a little rear-axle help from Ford... 9in maybe? LOL).

I said all of this to show you that 1) the argument was dumb (although David represented) and 2) get back to the racing talk b/c you guys are obv lacking on "your roots" LOL. Happy tuning.

And no I am not a "fanboy" of anything. If it has an engine, I'm into it...

Take care kids.

The Ford F-150 is the best selling vehicle in America. Are you saying that Honda could but does not want to compete with it as a way to increase marketshare? Do you understand basic business concepts? The Ridgeline has not been competition for the F-150.

The facts are that Ford is producing cars that give superior performance for the dollar to the Hondas. This was shown in the other thread.

Honda is happy with what they are producing, as they are competitive in generating revenue with it.

As I stated earlier, it is very different to produce a race engine for a spec series, than to produce a production vehicle that has to have a warranty, and last for years. IF ANY manufacter spends the R&D to develop a comparible product, they should be competitive with marketing. Honda has killed off the NSX, do you know why? It did not generate enough sales.

When did the Indy 500, become Formula 1? Oh yeah, it didn't. It is the IndyCar series of the Indy Racing League (merged with CART in 08). CART was not F1. IndyCAR is a spec series, not an open series. Think of it as minor league.
Honda hasn't been in F1 since 2008. I would hardly say they were dominating in 8th and 9th pace as a constructor.

In comparison, Ford has won:
176 race wins, and 10 manufacturer titles in Formula 1
75 race wins, and 3 manufacturer titles in WRC

And, as I showed in the other thread, Ford is getting as good as, if not better, gas mileage on comparable cars.

[Catnip]

I've had plenty of Hondas and still do, but GOT DANG David knows what's up. Not even getting emotional, just facts, facts, facts.

Reps to you, sir.

[BABY J]

David knows nothing if he thinks that the Ridgeline was developed to compete w/ the F150. It's a UNIBODY - you don't build a truck on a car frame, and slap a v6 in it with the INTENT of going toe to toe w/ the F150... it's more of a El Camino than a truck - LOL. The only real auto in the "truck ALTERNATIVE market" (which is where the Ridgeline was marketed) to compete with would be the Avalanche, which is not a Ford product the last time I checked. LOL

[BABY J]

As far as the NSX goes - it's VINTAGE. When the NSX dropped it was 1991 I think... that makes it comparable w/ EF hatches - LOL. NSXs could be spotted at the next "old school Honda meet" haha... what did Ford have in 1991 to compete w/ it that's even worth honorable mention?? Oh I know... NOTHING. LOL. This is fun. I'll address your post David when I get back from beer. Kudos sir. It'll help MORE illustrate my point on the POINTLESSNESS of trying to compare an ENGINE company to an auto manufacturer.

[Catnip]

it was dropped in '05...?

[Black4DrEK]

^ Nope.. early 90's

[Catnip]

I'm going to assume I read something wrong.

[Black4DrEK]

Whats that? that there was an nsx in 91?

[Catnip]

I thought he was saying they stopped production of the NSX in '91, by saying "dropped."

lol

[h22 jones]

have you ever heard you can do anything if you got enough money well im sure either of the companys could produce similar products .ford has come along way not taking anything away from honda at all. each company produces what they produce for one reason money thats it . if you want to argue ten years ago ok hands down im going with honda . if you want to argue 2010 well thats a good arguement ill let that other two guys in this forum spit facts for that. all im saying is just because a company doesnt do something doesnt mean thay cant just means they choose not to because they dont feel like it is profitable to them . i would love to own a car that gets great gas mileage, cost little to nothing ,runs tens and last for ever but they wouldnt make any money .im sure they make as much in parts sells as car sells .There is a reason they dont desighn stuff to last longer then 100,000 miles because im sure thay could . I do agree that honda dominated engine technology but i cant say they have anymore technology then ford anymore (even if ford stole it from honda they got it lol).

On the note if honda built a v8 ford would buy one tear it down and take notes probably but honda would buy fords v8 tear it down and take notes to start there process of building there first v8 lol so whats the difference.

[h22 jones]

I prefer chevy over ford but i got tired of changing the damn fuel pump everytime you turn around so i bought a expedition this time. you cant tell me chevy cant do something about there piece of shit fuel pumps sure they can but why would they at 400 dollars a pop when they sell one.

[-EnVus-]

have you ever heard you can do anything if you got enough money well im sure either of the companys could produce similar products .ford has come along way not taking anything away from honda at all. each company produces what they produce for one reason money thats it . if you want to argue ten years ago ok hands down im going with honda . if you want to argue 2010 well thats a good arguement ill let that other two guys in this forum spit facts for that. all im saying is just because a company doesnt do something doesnt mean thay cant just means they choose not to because they dont feel like it is profitable to them . i would love to own a car that gets great gas mileage, cost little to nothing ,runs tens and last for ever but they wouldnt make any money .im sure they make as much in parts sells as car sells .There is a reason they dont desighn stuff to last longer then 100,000 miles because im sure thay could . I do agree that honda dominated engine technology but i cant say they have anymore technology then ford anymore (even if ford stole it from honda they got it lol).

On tha note if Honda built a v8 Ford would buy one tear it down and take notes probably but honda would buy fords v8 tear it down and take notes to start there process of building there first v8 lol so whats the difference.

The Japanese and Chinese stick to what they know best and thats 4cylinder engines maybe a few 6 cylinders. Its like European is good with v12,v10 and 6cylinders. America was built with v8 in mind i mean it started with the Ford flathead v8. Also Americans built tractors Asians built push mowers a huge difference in engines lol
Fords new designes and builders are going on the Euro models and this is why Ford is killing it right now with Styling and MPG with good engines. GM in Europe and almost all over seas countries is very cheap or junky made.

[David88vert]

David knows nothing if he thinks that the Ridgeline was developed to compete w/ the F150. It's a UNIBODY - you don't build a truck on a car frame, and slap a v6 in it with the INTENT of going toe to toe w/ the F150... it's more of a El Camino than a truck - LOL. The only real auto in the "truck ALTERNATIVE market" (which is where the Ridgeline was marketed) to compete with would be the Avalanche, which is not a Ford product the last time I checked. LOL

Nice how you avoided the F1 mistake you made.

As for the Ridgeline, how about going to its site and seeing who it is targetting:
http://automobiles.honda.com/ridgeline/
Honda claims this design gives it 2.5 times more bending rigidity and 20 times the torsional rigidity than the standard ladder frame only type of chassis construction, while retaining the load carrying capacity of the traditional ladder frame. Sounds like they are claiming it as a truck to me.
Honda decided to advertise the Ridgeline as an alternative to traditional 1/2 ton full-size pickups such as the Ford F-150, Chevrolet Silverado, and Toyota Tundra, all of which had standard V8 engines. This likely harmed Ridgeline sales, as some cited its weak V6 engine (Honda has never developed a V8 for passenger vehicles) and lack of ruggedness due to its unibody construction, while its relatively short cargo bed compared to a standard pickup truck made it unsuitable for contractors. Sounds like they didn't know what their target audience was - and that is a poor design.
Ridgeline sales only average about 1500 trucks per month. That's weak compared to the F-150, which averaged over 34,000 sold per month for its worst year, 2009.

[-EnVus-]

Nice how you avoided the F1 mistake you made.

As for the Ridgeline, how about going to its site and seeing who it is targetting:
http://automobiles.honda.com/ridgeline/
Honda claims this design gives it 2.5 times more bending rigidity and 20 times the torsional rigidity than the standard ladder frame only type of chassis construction, while retaining the load carrying capacity of the traditional ladder frame. Sounds like they are claiming it as a truck to me.
Honda decided to advertise the Ridgeline as an alternative to traditional 1/2 ton full-size pickups such as the Ford F-150, Chevrolet Silverado, and Toyota Tundra, all of which had standard V8 engines. This likely harmed Ridgeline sales, as some cited its weak V6 engine (Honda has never developed a V8 for passenger vehicles) and lack of ruggedness due to its unibody construction, while its relatively short cargo bed compared to a standard pickup truck made it unsuitable for contractors. Sounds like they didn't know what their target audience was - and that is a poor design.
Ridgeline sales only average about 1500 trucks per month. That's weak compared to the F-150, which averaged over 34,000 sold per month for its worst year, 2009.

I was told by a Honda salesman the Ridgeline is gone in 2011 due to its low demand and poor sales.

[David88vert]

As far as the NSX goes - it's VINTAGE. When the NSX dropped it was 1991 I think... that makes it comparable w/ EF hatches - LOL. NSXs could be spotted at the next "old school Honda meet" haha... what did Ford have in 1991 to compete w/ it that's even worth honorable mention?? Oh I know... NOTHING. LOL. This is fun. I'll address your post David when I get back from beer. Kudos sir. It'll help MORE illustrate my point on the POINTLESSNESS of trying to compare an ENGINE company to an auto manufacturer.

Actually, it got cancelled in 2005, but they planned to bring it back with a V10. Due to the economy, it wasn't viable to bring it back and at the end of 2008 they announced that its rebirth was cancelled. So what did that massive V10 do? Nothing, it turned into a V8. In March 2010, the Acura NSX project has changed to the Honda HSV-010 GT and is entering in the Japanese SuperGT Championship. The HSV-010 GT is powered by a 3.4-liter V8 making just above 500 HP.

Ford makes 540hp out of its production Shelby V8. It has a warranty.

As an engine manufacturer, it seems they are being outdone by an auto company with Bubba and Buddy on the payroll.....

[David88vert]

I was told by a Honda salesman the Ridgeline is gone in 2011 due to its low demand and poor sales.

It's a great vehicle, but if it wasn't designed to fit a target market, then it is a poor design.
Currently, the 2011 Ridgeline is on Honda's site, talking up its ruggedness - its built Ford tough....

• High-torque 250-hp , 3.5-liter, 24-valve, SOHC VTEC® V-6 Engine
• Variable Torque Management® (VTM-4®)
• 4-wheel-drive system 5,000-lb. towing capacity[5].Up to 1,546 lb. total payload capacity. (RT/RTS)
• Integrated closed-box frame
• Unit-body construction
• Lockable In-Bed Trunk®
• Dual-action tailgate
• Integrated Class III trailer hitch

[David88vert]

The Japanese and Chinese stick to what they know best and thats 4cylinder engines maybe a few 6 cylinders. Its like European is good with v12,v10 and 6cylinders. America was built with v8 in mind i mean it started with the Ford flathead v8. Also Americans built tractors Asians built push mowers a huge difference in engines lol
Fords new designes and builders are going on the Euro models and this is why Ford is killing it right now with Styling and MPG with good engines. GM in Europe and almost all over seas countries is very cheap or junky made.

Japan makes excellent 4cyls and 6cyls, and they have a few strong V8s - The Toyota Tundra 5.7 V8 is no joke. It is a very nice, strong truck.

[David88vert]

have you ever heard you can do anything if you got enough money well im sure either of the companys could produce similar products .ford has come along way not taking anything away from honda at all. each company produces what they produce for one reason money thats it . if you want to argue ten years ago ok hands down im going with honda . if you want to argue 2010 well thats a good arguement ill let that other two guys in this forum spit facts for that. all im saying is just because a company doesnt do something doesnt mean thay cant just means they choose not to because they dont feel like it is profitable to them . i would love to own a car that gets great gas mileage, cost little to nothing ,runs tens and last for ever but they wouldnt make any money .im sure they make as much in parts sells as car sells .There is a reason they dont desighn stuff to last longer then 100,000 miles because im sure thay could . I do agree that honda dominated engine technology but i cant say they have anymore technology then ford anymore (even if ford stole it from honda they got it lol).

On the note if honda built a v8 ford would buy one tear it down and take notes probably but honda would buy fords v8 tear it down and take notes to start there process of building there first v8 lol so whats the difference.

I agree with you.

[Starrfire]

When it comes to trucks ford has had it down over any other manufacturer for decades. Quality goes to honda since it was made though but ford is stepping up their game. GM and Chrysler are easily behind ford on quality. This is coming from someone who takes the cars apart on a regular basis.

[-EnVus-]

When it comes to trucks ford has had it down over any other manufacturer for decades. Quality goes to honda since it was made though but ford is stepping up their game. GM and Chrysler are easily behind ford on quality. This is coming from someone who takes the cars apart on a regular basis.

lol at Honda being Tough.......They just have long lasting engines but tough i don't think so.

[Starrfire]

Tough=reliable. Think of how many ricers beat the shit out of those cars for 20 years. Still going.

[92ludevtec]

hmMmmm honda and ford huh?






as they say..."you get it from the best"

[92ludevtec]

i wonder how they got the name "fusion" puAHhahaH!

[Catnip]

Tough=reliable. Think of how many ricers beat the shit out of those cars for 20 years. Still going.

Think how many fox bodies are still going strong. Hell, for that matter, Camaros as well.

[j0nbunklah0m]

finally a thread worth reading lol. this has been a while

[BABY J]

Consider reliability and resale value at 100,000 miles... then 150,000 - then EEEEE --- 200,000 miles (LOL @ Ford). I'd have to give Honda the nod. I don't have numbers on hand to compare repairs over 100,000 miles between both (nor do I care to). But as a Ford owner AS WELL as a Honda owner I think my own personal data is all I need. LOL. Grab the AJC... look for local used car values of each... a 100,000 mile Honda vs. ANY Ford car with 100,000 miles. Ouch!

Funny how most of the Ford talk is "what they are doing now" and "man they are bouncing back" - LOL. Bouncing back from WHAT - that "what" is the thing that they have been doing for a LONG time while Honda has been doing it's thing consistently for a long time. Take fleet sales out (Crown Vics, police car duties, taxi-cabs) and look at just consumer sales I'd betcha that the numbers are less skewed than we'd like to admit.

This has been fun. I started this thread to show that you CAN'T compare 2 companies w/ different mission-statement and methodologies fairly. Honda PRIDES itself onbeing fuel efficient and RELIABLE vehicles... they don't want to build "race" cars for the street. I also think that to toss the Shelby data in is bullshit. Shelby is not Ford, although he modifies them. Why not throw Hennessey in as well? :poke:

http://www.insideline.com/honda/acco...gination_top_3

[japan4racing]

I could be totally wrong here but I had thought the Shleby name was purchased by Ford. Carrol Shelby does not actually have anything to do with the car anymore. Ford is in control of every aspect of it and the chicken farmer shows up at events and promotes the car and in doing so both Ford and Shelby collect healthy checks. I mean how can you take Shelby serious anymore? The man does zmax commercials...lol!

I think the only way to really compare the 2 is to compare like vehicles.....the accord vs fusion for an example. Honda does not produce a vehicle worth comparing to the mustang, or any f-series truck. I think both sides can agree on that. Now when it comes to the economy lines of cars and full size family cars I think some comparisons can be made. Current models to current models and old models to old models. Any other way and there is no comparison.

[j0nbunklah0m]

HONDA FTW

[boosted347]

^ look at this honda fan boy right here lol

each company has their own plus side and negative side...reliability up until now def goes hands down to honda, performance has always has been and always will be a staple in american car production...wanna look at more facts wuts your wonderful honda v8 run around the ring??? Yea thats right slower than the production zr1 it is the fastest production car around the ring, well damn so much for american only goin in a straight line argument that was sure to come up but like it was said earlier in this thread apples to oranges...each have their own reasons as to why people buy them, say you wanna go buy a new car and you are thinkin "hmmm i want a quick performance car thats fun to drive" you dont go buy a honda its simple enough, and up until now when you thought of fuel economy and longevity you always went with honda...its a dumb argument and especially by the fan boys on this website...baby j you started this thread with incorrect information and biased views, david you recieve reps for your facts and h22 you also for bein unbiased, the majority of the people on this site are in love with hondas...hence "import atlanta", go over to muscle car evolution or some other site that is domestic based and it would be totally opposite. But this thread is useless and has run its course, this argument will always come down to personal opinion and preferences. The two shouldnt be compared

[BABY J]

Actually, it got cancelled in 2005, but they planned to bring it back with a V10. Due to the economy, it wasn't viable to bring it back and at the end of 2008 they announced that its rebirth was cancelled. So what did that massive V10 do? Nothing, it turned into a V8. In March 2010, the Acura NSX project has changed to the Honda HSV-010 GT and is entering in the Japanese SuperGT Championship. The HSV-010 GT is powered by a 3.4-liter V8 making just above 500 HP.

Ford makes 540hp out of its production Shelby V8. It has a warranty.

As an engine manufacturer, it seems they are being outdone by an auto company with Bubba and Buddy on the payroll.....

That's bc only Bubba and Buddy would think that they are trying to compete w/ them. LOL... which is my point. It's easy to win a race when the person you're racing ISN'T. These 2 companies have NOTHING similar in terms of their methodologies. But some people will continue to compare bicycles to watermelons. *shrugs*

[-EnVus-]

I drive Honda by Choice but id take a Ford anyday im a Ford Fanatic. My family has been with ford for over 60 years.
We have raced them we have built them for fun and used them as work horses. I can say i have bough and used some Chevrolet like an S10 and a Camaro and both crapped out after about 50 issues.

[BABY J]

This actually led me to some kool "trivia" that I'd otherwise never know. Seems Honda had their sites much higher than Ford when they envisioned the NSX - it was targeted at Ferrari, and then McLaren used the NSX as a target for the McLaren F1. HAHA. Not bad for some old bolts thrown together by 4 feet tall rice eating dorks in the late 80s and brought to life in 1991.

exerpt from the NSX wiki:

Honda's breakthrough engineering in the NSX was a major contributor to the design of the McLaren F1 as mentioned in an interview with McLaren F1 designer Gordon Murray (translated from original Japanese into English).[18] "The moment I drove the NSX, all the benchmark cars—Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini—I had been using as references in the development of my car vanished from my mind. Of course the car we would create, the McLaren F1, needed to be faster than the NSX, but the NSX's ride quality and handling would become our new design target." The NSX was marketed as the first "Everyday Supercar" thanks in part to its ease of use, quality and reliability. Murray himself remained an NSX owner for 7 years.


On a side-note. I think that Honda does not handle defeat too well. I looked at the "new" car... the HSV-010 is HARDLY comparable to the NSX. It's front-engine and RWD... I wonder what Honda will do with this data from the track and what they have up their sleeves in years to come. We never know... check out this guy : http://world.honda.com/HSV-010_GT/

[boosted347]

i honestly wish they would make a street version of the car that way it isnt only a bunch of economy cars from them on the road...though i drive a ford i am not a fan boy i would much rater have a chevy...but competition only makes the cars produced better...look at all the american companies making more fuel efficient cars to compete with honda and toyota, imagine if they came out with a v8 that wold compete and/or beat the american v8s

[BABY J]

My back yard looks like this...

B13 SeR + n2o
RHD Eg6
2 EF hatches
Datsun 510
81 Mazda GLC
Olds Bravada + n2o
77 Civic Hatch
90 Mustang GT

and a few others - so I like it all. I agree - but I think that goes against the principles that the company was founded under... I'd love to see a real effort from them in the sports car market though.

[japan4racing]

My back yard looks like this...

B13 SeR + n2o
RHD Eg6
2 EF hatches
Datsun 510
81 Mazda GLC
Olds Bravada + n2o
77 Civic Hatch
90 Mustang GT

and a few others - so I like it all. I agree - but I think that goes against the principles that the company was founded under... I'd love to see a real effort from them in the sports car market though.

we are gonna need some details on said 510

[boosted347]

haha i agree i would love to see them come in and compete with the mustang gt, the new 5.0, the 4.6 other than the dohc is horrible...but a 3.4L v8 is totally unpractical for street use cause you would have to rev so high to get the power and it is for sure 13:1 compression at least so no pump gas there...but with some massive changes they could bring a v8 to the scene