Plane on a treadmill poll...

[Para]

Wrong again.
What about my statement do you think is wrong? Are you saying that to prevent it from moving it would need to go in the same direction? Because my post was in reference to someone who said that.

[speedminded]

I can't watch the video, I'm browsing from my phone.

My point is that the plane will never reach any speed according to the OP. I would agree with you if the treadmill were at at constant speed.

If the treadmill continues to move underneath the aircraft, the plane will never move. It does not matter how a plane's forward momentum is normally achieved, it cannot go forward if the ground below it is moving in the opposite direction.The moving ground is irrelevant, it has no bearing or effect on the plane propelling itself forward...i promise.

[Ruiner]

I can't watch the video, I'm browsing from my phone.

My point is that the plane will never reach any speed according to the OP. I would agree with you if the treadmill were at at constant speed.

If the treadmill continues to move underneath the aircraft, the plane will never move. It does not matter how a plane's forward momentum is normally achieved, it cannot go forward if the ground below it is moving in the opposite direction.

The video(s) will disprove the bolded point for you very easily.

[Ruiner]

What about my statement do you think is wrong? Are you saying that to prevent it from moving it would need to go in the same direction? Because my post was in reference to someone who said that.

My point is this: The treadmill cannot prevent the plane from moving forward as long as the plane has free-rolling wheels. Once the plane's thrust is enough to break the friction present in the wheel bearings, the plane will move forward no matter how fast or slow the treadmill is moving in reverse.

[joecoolfreak]

What about my statement do you think is wrong? Are you saying that to prevent it from moving it would need to go in the same direction? Because my post was in reference to someone who said that.

Your statement is wrong because the speed and direction of the treadmill is completely irrelavent. There are two independant systems working here and the reason this becomes such a difficult issue for some people to grasp is because the human mind has a natural tendancy to merge the two systems based on our own experience. You connect the wheels on the plane to the ground, because wheels in most applications are the "thrust factor" The wheels in a plane though have an entirely different purpose. They are not connected to a driveshaft or power of any other kind. The only reason they exist is to prevent friction on the bottom of the plane. As Speedminded has referenced several times in this thread, they aren't even necessary. Some planes don't have wheels at all. Sea planes use pontoons for example. Also, the original question on page 1 says that the wheels are "free rolling" so you can assume that they have no friction (which although in real life can't exist) it makes it easier for the sake of this senerio. Once you can seperate the concept of the wheels from the plane, it is pretty easy to realize that whatever the wheels touch, is also irrelevant. That's why it doesn't matter what direction or speed the treadmill goes. As long as the hypothetical treadmill is the same distance as the plane/jet etc... requires for a normal take off, it will take off just the same whether the treadmill is moving or not.

[speedminded]

Here's your answer from an "educated" person.


This is somewhat of a "trick" question. Not because it is phrased in a
deliberately tricky way, but because people tend to have trouble
thinking about the operation of other vehicles apart from cars which
they know so well.

The heart of the confusion is simply these two important facts:
* cars propel themselves by pushing against the ground via friction
* airplanes propel themselves by pushing against the air
If you can let go of how cars operate and think about what an airplane
does, you'll be able to see the problem clearly.

One good way of tackling this problem is to find a good analogy. But
the analogy must be a valid one else you'll just get more confused.
For example, someone posted the analogy of running on a treadmill. Why
is that a bad analogy? Because one runs by pushing against the ground
via friction between their shoe and the ground. This is how a car
propels itself! It is not how an airplane propels itself, by pushing
against the air. Bad analogy.

Let's use this analogy. Instead of looking at the airplane, let's back
up and go into the airport. Suppose you're walking down to your gate
and pulling your carry-on bag behind you. It's a nice new bag with low
friction wheels. No problem! Up ahead you see one of those moving
walkways. You don't see anyone coming, so you decide to do a little
experiment. You go over to the walkway that is moving TOWARDS you and
place your bag on it. Meanwhile, you step off to the side of the
walkway, and still holding on to the handle of your bag, you continue
to walk along. In fact, you intentionally walk along at the same speed
that the moving walkway is going, just in the opposite direction.
Question: does the bag move or does it remain stationary as you keep
walking? Obviously it moves with you. So why does your bag move
forward when you are walking at the same speed of the conveyor going
in the opposite direction?

The answer to that question is also the answer to the
airplane-conveyor question. To complete the analogy, the pull of your
arm is analogous to the force of the airplane engines. The bag's
wheels are analogous to the airplane tires. Do the nice low-friction
wheels on your bag on the conveyor pull against you anymore than they
do when you're just pulling your bag along normally? No, they don't.
They are free-wheeling, after all. Meanwhile, you're pulling the bag
with the same force in both cases. So in both cases, the bag keeps
moving forward. Likewise with the airplane, the pull of the engines
doesn't change nor does the force on the airplane imparted by the
tires change no matter what the ground is doing underneath the tires.
You have the same force imbalance in either case, and since Force =
mass x accceleration, you have the same acceleration. Remember, we are
talking airplane engines which push against the AIR, not the ground.
The acceleration is with respect to the AIR, thus the airplane
develops a speed relative to the air and can eventually take off...

John Strong
Ph.D., biochemical engineering
M.S., chemical engineering
B.S., mechanical engineering

[RJ's325ITS]

This has been the most stupid question ever and anybody that saw little bit of physics at their high school would know that air is what propels the airplane to take off not the speed of the wheels,

Speed is just used as a measuring mark to achieve the enough wind drag "flow" to propel the aircraft to lift from the ground.



LOL at the OP

[joecoolfreak]

This has been the most stupid question ever and anybody that saw little bit of phisycs at their high school would know that air is what propels the airplane to take off not the speep of the wheels,

Speed is just used as a mesuring mark to achive the enough wind drag "fllow" to propel the aircraft to lift from the gorund.


LOL at the OP

Although I ignored your spelling errors and typos...it still took me a minute to try and decifer what you were trying to say. I then thought...wow...this guy gets it, until I look up at the poll and see that you still got the answer wrong. The correct answer is yes, the plane will take off. If you still don't understand why, you might want to read some of the responces in the thread instead of the first post and then replying. If you still don't get it, let me know. =-)

[Ruiner]

Although I ignored your spelling errors and typos...it still took me a minute to try and decifer what you were trying to say. I then thought...wow...this guy gets it, until I look up at the poll and see that you still got the answer wrong. The correct answer is yes, the plane will take off. If you still don't understand why, you might want to read some of the responces in the thread instead of the first post and then replying. If you still don't get it, let me know. =-)

Ahahahhahahahhahah. So true, so true. Yes, the plane would take off given a long enough treadmill (as long as a typical runway).

How people cannot grasp this is beyond me...

[man]

So, you people that said no, are you saying that if you put an f16 on a treadmill and put the throttle at 100%, the plane would not move forward? Sounds like you all need to take a physics course...

[Ruiner]

So, you people that said no, are you saying that if you put an f16 on a treadmill and put the throttle at 100%, the plane would not move forward? Sounds like you all need to take a physics course...

They think that it won't move forward IF the treadmill is going backwards at the same speed as the jet. :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[man]

They think that it won't move forward IF the treadmill is going backwards at the same speed as the jet. :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

I figured out why this is such a controversial question... The people that say no just don't understand physics. The people that say yes just truly don't understand the logic of the people that say no.

[joecoolfreak]

I figured out why this is such a controversial question... The people that say no just don't understand physics. The people that say yes just truly don't understand the logic of the people that say no.

lol...you may have hit the nail on the head

[Ruiner]

I figured out why this is such a controversial question... The people that say no just don't understand physics. The people that say yes just truly don't understand the logic of the people that say no.

I understand their logic when they explain how they came up with the "No" response, but many do not explain their logic as they, themselves, are not sure if it, either. :)

[RJ's325ITS]

Although I ignored your spelling errors and typos...it still took me a minute to try and decifer what you were trying to say. I then thought...wow...this guy gets it, until I look up at the poll and see that you still got the answer wrong. The correct answer is yes, the plane will take off. If you still don't understand why, you might want to read some of the responces in the thread instead of the first post and then replying. If you still don't get it, let me know. =-)

Like I said this is one of those stupid questions like:

what was first the egg of the chicken???????????? taaaa taaaa taaaaaaaaaaa

If the "treadmill" is "X" length and X=to the speed needed to take off then the answer is yes and then once again stupid question. :goodjob:

[joecoolfreak]

Like I said this is one of those stupid questions like:

what was first the egg of the chicken???????????? taaaa taaaa taaaaaaaaaaa

If the "treadmill" is "X" length and X=to the speed needed to take off then the answer is yes and then once again stupid question. :goodjob:

I agree that it is a simple question. I still have trouble decifering anything that you say. And I see that although you say the answer is yes, you still voted no. I am glad you have come around and understand now though =-)

[speedminded]

Like I said this is one of those stupid questions like:

what was first the egg of the chicken???????????? taaaa taaaa taaaaaaaaaaa

If the "treadmill" is "X" length and X=to the speed needed to take off then the answer is yes and then once again stupid question. :goodjob:It's not the point of how long the runway is, it was already established the "treadmill" is the size of a runway...the POINT is whether a plane will remain stationary or not on said "treadmill". Does the rotation/action of a "treadmill" prevent the plane from propelling itself forward?

[RJ's325ITS]

It's not the point of how long the runway is, it was already established the "treadmill" is the size of a runway...the POINT is whether a plane will remain stationary or not on said "treadmill". Does the rotation/action of a "treadmill" prevent the plane from propelling itself forward?



OMG, is a plane not a car deee deeee deeeeeee. The turbine is propelling the airplane by compressing air and fuel.







First if you want to get anal about this lets do it, There are different size of runways all around the world, also different altitudes; some are shorter than others and some other are at 220 sea level and others at 4700 over sea level; so if you have the shortest of the runways at city over 4700 over sea level and you have a fully loaded plane ready for an international flight the plane will not take off, It will reach the end of the stupid "treadmill" and crash.







There are a lot more variables that are not take into consideration when the stupid questions was asked... such as altitude, air temperature, passenger load, fuel load and distance of the runway, w/out all of these variable we can guess a fictional answer to and fictional question.

[Ruiner]

OMG, is a plane not a car deee deeee deeeeeee. The turbine is propelling the airplane by compressing air and fuel.

First if you want to get anal about this lets do it, There are different size of runways all around the world, also different altitudes; some are shorter than others and some other are at 220 sea level and others at 4700 over sea level; so if you have the shortest of the runways at city over 4700 over sea level and you have a fully loaded plane ready for an international flight the plane will not take off, It will reach the end of the stupid "treadmill" and crash.

There are a lot more variables that are not take into consideration when the stupid questions was asked... such as altitude, air temperature, passenger load, fuel load and distance of the runway, w/out all of these variable we can guess a fictional answer to and fictional question.

Okay, let's look at it with a more simple question: WILL the plane move forward? Yes or no? Can the treadmill stop the plane from moving forward? Yes or no?

If the answer is yes to the first question, then we can all agree that the plane will eventually take off given a long enough runway.

[RJ's325ITS]

Okay, let's look at it with a more simple question: WILL the plane move forward? Yes or no? Can the treadmill stop the plane from moving forward? Yes or no?

If the answer is yes, then we can all agree that the plane will eventually take off given a long enough runway.


The only way you can hold a plane back is with the brakes, cutting its air supply, bolting it to the ground; so if the treadmill is none of the above what you think?







The plane will move forward b/c the plane is propelled by a turbine

[Ruiner]

The only way you can hold a plane back is with the brakes, cutting its air supply, bolting it to the ground; so if the treadmill is none of the above what you think?


The plane will move forward b/c the plane is propelled by a turbine

You are correct. Now explain to me why you voted "NO" that it would not take off?

[RJ's325ITS]

You are correct. Now explain to me why you voted "NO" that it would not take off?

B/c it was a fictional question....... if it was a realistic question you will get a real answer... just MPO.

[Killer]

..... planes don't take off by pushing air.... they take off by creating lift.... they push air to gain speed.. the speed helps them create the lift.....

[speedminded]

..... planes don't take off by pushing air.... they take off by creating lift.... they push air to gain speed.. the speed helps them create the lift.....planes don't push air? how do you suppose they travel forward to create that lift?

[ShooterMcGavin]

planes don't push air? how do you suppose they travel forward to create that lift?
now ur treading into murky waters, depends on ur definition of "push"

[Killer]

planes don't push air? how do you suppose they travel forward to create that lift?

read what i said again......

they push air to gain speed to create lift.... i never said they don't push air...

i didn't say they didn't push air.... but pushing air alone is not going to make one take off.. i can push air out of my ass all day long and not take off unless i had wings and was creating lift... but to creat the lift i would have to be splitting the opposing air with my wings...(plane like wings).. now rockets take off just by pushing air.... but they push air vertically... not horizontally like a plane does...

[Hektik]

why is everyone going so deep into the question.. forget all the extra little variables such as wind speed, alltitude, weight of passangers on board, wether the pilot is wearing a toupee or not..

[Ruiner]

why is everyone going so deep into the question.. forget all the extra little variables such as wind speed, alltitude, weight of passangers on board, wether the pilot is wearing a toupee or not..

The small variables are what they use to justify why it won't take off since their brain cannot grasp that it will take off. :)

[Killer]

The small variables are what they use to justify why it won't take off since their brain cannot grasp that it will take off. :)

can you explain to me how it could take off?

[Killer]

saying it would take off on a treadmill is like saying you would feel the G force when dynoing a car (well, if you sat in it anyway) your tires maybe going 100 mph... but ur still sitting still, so is the car, and there is no opposing force.

[speedminded]

saying it would take off on a treadmill is like saying you would feel the G force when dynoing a car (well, if you sat in it anyway) your tires maybe going 100 mph... but ur still sitting still, so is the car, and there is no opposing force.**NEWS FLASH** A PLANE IS NOT A CAR, PLANES ARE NOT POWERED BY THEIR WHEELS. ERASE THE WORDS AND ALL EXPERIENCES WITH DYNOS AND AUTOMOBILES FROM YOUR MIND.

[Killer]

**NEWS FLASH** A PLANE IS NOT A CAR, PLANES ARE NOT POWERED BY THEIR WHEELS. ERASE THE WORDS AND ALL EXPERIENCES WITH DYNOS AND AUTOMOBILES FROM YOUR MIND.


your a fucking idiot... no shit a plane and a car is different.. but the concept is the same dick face... g force is g force whether created in a plane or a car... it does not matter what is powering the vehicle or aircraft.

http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006/12/airplane-on-treadmill.html

http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt


and last but not least...... http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.html

[speedminded]

now ur treading into murky waters, depends on ur definition of "push"The word "thrust" might be a lil harder to comprehend ;)

[speedminded]

your a fucking idiot... no shit a plane and a car is different.. but the concept is the same dick face... g force is g force whether created in a plane or a car... it does not matter what is powering the vehicle or aircraft.

http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006/12/airplane-on-treadmill.html

http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt


and last but not least...... http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.htmlno, the concept isn't the same at all...and not even close. A car on a free spinning dyno or treadmill that is going the same speed the opposite direction WILL prevent a car from going anywhere. A treadmill going either direction at any speed WILL NEVER effect a planes ability to propel its self forward, gain speed & lift, and take off just like any other runway.

[speedminded]

FYI: This guy is a complete idiot, lol...
http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006/12/airplane-on-treadmill.html

I can't even tell what the final answer is here, too much conflicting...
http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt

[Killer]

FYI: This guy is a complete idiot, lol...
http://crankyflier.blogspot.com/2006/12/airplane-on-treadmill.html

I can't even tell what the final answer is here, too much conflicting...
http://www.kottke.org/06/02/plane-conveyor-belt

that's why i posted this link... argue with actual rocket scientist bub....
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.html

[speedminded]

that's why i posted this link... argue with actual rocket scientist bub....
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/move.htmlWhat does that link have to do with anything? First figure out if a plane will propel itself forward, you answered yes on the poll...

[Ruiner]

Killer - It's this simple: A plane moves via its engines which run through the air. The wheels are only there to keep the plane off of the ground.

Just look at ski plans, boat planes, or other planes without wheels. They still take off. The treadmill would just make the plane's wheels spin faster, but otherwise it would have NO affect on the plane itself.

[Killer]

Killer - It's this simple: A plane moves via its engines which run through the air. The wheels are only there to keep the plane off of the ground.

Just look at ski plans or planes without wheels. They still take off. The treadmill would just make the plane's wheels spin faster, but otherwise it would have NO affect on the plane itself.

ski planes don't just sit still and take off, they gain speed on the water/snow then take off.... you're right it has nothing to do with the wheels... but everything to do with speed... a plane must gain ground speed to create wind speed which causes the plain to lift...


i want you to get on a treadmill with a kite and put on some roller blades... or run if you'd like... see how long it takes you to get that kite in the air....

i promise it won't lift.. even if you put a jet pack on your back.. until you gain enough SPEED to create LIFT

[Killer]

What does that link have to do with anything? First figure out if a plane will propel itself forward, you answered yes on the poll...

you obviously can't read anything..... and i voted no genius...

[speedminded]

you obviously can't read anything..... and i voted no genius...ah, you did... i did CTRL F and searched your name and thought i saw yes -- oh well, too bad for you.

[Ruiner]

ski planes don't just sit still and take off, they gain speed on the water/snow then take off.... you're right it has nothing to do with the wheels... but everything to do with speed... a plane must gain ground speed to create wind speed which causes the plain to lift...


i want you to get on a treadmill with a kite and put on some roller blades... or run if you'd like... see how long it takes you to get that kite in the air....

i promise it won't lift.. even if you put a jet pack on your back.. until you gain enough SPEED to create LIFT

Correct. However, what I am telling you is that a treadmill, going backwards, CANNOT prevent a plane from moving forward.

Understand what I am saying? A treadmill, no matter how fast it is spinning in reverse, cannot stop a plane from moving forward, gaining speed, and eventually taking off.

[speedminded]

ski planes don't just sit still and take off, they gain speed on the water/snow then take off.... you're right it has nothing to do with the wheels... but everything to do with speed... a plane must gain ground speed to create wind speed which causes the plain to lift...


i want you to get on a treadmill with a kite and put on some roller blades... or run if you'd like... see how long it takes you to get that kite in the air....

i promise it won't lift.. even if you put a jet pack on your back.. until you gain enough SPEED to create LIFTWhy do you think the plane will not gain ground speed? What's preventing the engines from creating thrust and propelling the plane forward?

[Ruiner]

Why do you think the plane will not gain ground speed?

He thinks that the treadmill, rolling in reverse, can prevent a plane from moving forward. THAT is where he has an error in logic. :)

[Ruiner]

Killer - watch these:

Here it is with your own eyes. The plane moves forward. Given a long enough runway, it would gain speed, generate lift, and finally take off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

Another one showing the plane moving forward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDliz-YinyY

Using the flatbed of a truck as the treadmill that moves in the opposite direction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUnAU0MyHM

[speedminded]

He thinks that the treadmill, rolling in reverse, can prevent a plane from moving forward. THAT is where he has an error in logic. :)ohhh, so you mean those doubting should think about if the plane will actually move forward before debating how wings create lift and all that nonsense?

[Ruiner]

Killer - I'm a very educated man in terms of books, mathematics, theory, physics, etc. Please trust me when I tell you that it WILL move forward, gain speed, and eventually take off given a long enough runway.

[Ruiner]

ohhh, so you mean those doubting should think about if the plane will actually move forward before debating how wings create lift and all that nonsense?

Yes! If they can understand the concept that the plane WILL move forward no matter what the treadmill is doing, they can then logically draw the conclusion that forward movement will lead to acceleration. That acceleration will approach take-off speed and the plane is in the air...

[Ruiner]

I have lost faith in our education system. :(

[Killer]

Killer - I'm a very educated man in terms of books, mathematics, theory, physics, etc. Please trust me when I tell you that it WILL move forward, gain speed, and eventually take off given a long enough runway.


if it moves faster than the treadmill yeah... it will then just take longer for it to gain speed....

but theoretically putting it on a treadmill would cause it not to gain speed.... most are going to assume the treadmill and the plane are moving at the same speed, there for leaving the plane motionless.

obvious if i put a treadmill at it's slowest speed and i run faster than it.. i'm going to run off the treadmill.....

[speedminded]

if it moves faster than the treadmill yeah... it will then just take longer for it to gain speed....

but theoretically putting it on a treadmill would cause it not to gain speed.... most are going to assume the treadmill and the plane are moving at the same speed, there for leaving the plane motionless.

obvious if i put a treadmill at it's slowest speed and i run faster than it.. i'm going to run off the treadmill.....The speed of the treadmill has no effect on the plane, it can be moving backwards 10 times or 100 times the forward speed of the plane and it still will not effect the forward motion of the plane.

What powers the plane, what makes it go forward?

[Killer]

The speed of the treadmill has no effect on the plane, it can be moving backwards 10 times or 100 times the forward speed of the plane and it still will not effect the forward motion of the plane.

What powers the plane, what makes it go forward?

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0

now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0...

[Ruiner]

if it moves faster than the treadmill yeah... it will then just take longer for it to gain speed....

but theoretically putting it on a treadmill would cause it not to gain speed.... most are going to assume the treadmill and the plane are moving at the same speed, there for leaving the plane motionless.

obvious if i put a treadmill at it's slowest speed and i run faster than it.. i'm going to run off the treadmill.....

A few things:

What I bolded breaks the problem's statement - The treadmill moves at the same SPEED as the plane. If the plane is motionless, the treadmill is as well.

Running on a treadmill and having a plane on a treadmill are two TOTALLY different things. You cannot compare the two. However, if you have rollerskates on the treadmill...

You still aren't getting it... Didn't you watch the movies that I posted?

[Ruiner]

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0

now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0...

Wrong. Just watch the videos. You are having a hard time grasping this. Free spinning wheels are just that - free spinning. The treadmill will just make them spin FASTER. The plane will still move forward, however.

[Ruiner]

Killer - ever had an advanced college physics theory class?

[DerrickT]

Wrong. Just watch the videos. You are having a hard time grasping this. Free spinning wheels are just that - free spinning. The treadmill will just make them spin FASTER. The plane will still move forward, however.

Its a rather simple idea. People are thinking way too far into this.

[Ruiner]

Its a rather simple idea. People are thinking way too far into this.

Actually, I'd reason that they do not have the logic skills to understand this question.

[speedminded]

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0People are powered by their feet, generated by what is in contact with the surface. Planes are not powered by their wheels...



now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0... Here you are on the right track -- if someone were on a treadmill on rollerskates and someone was behind them could they not keep them from rolling off the back with just one finger? Speed up the treadmill do you think it is any more difficult to hold them in the same place?

[Echonova]

Using the flatbed of a truck as the treadmill that moves in the opposite direction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUnAU0MyHM The flatbed one was dumb. To the plane the "ground" is still stationary no matter how fast they drive the truck. Our airports don't compensate for the earth's rotation do they? The first link explains it the best.:goodjob:

[DerrickT]

Actually, I'd reason that they do not have the logic skills to understand this question.

I was being "P.C." lol :goodjob:

[Echonova]

yes it does.... how much forward motion do you generate while running on a treadmill???? 0

now strap some wheels to your feet... and add a jet engine to your anus..... set the treadmill speed to the same speed your engine creates.... how much forward motion do you generate.... 0...The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.

[BABY J]

Think of it with respect to a wheelchair on the treadmill.

You're sitting in a wheelchair on a treadmill. The wheelchair wheels are free-spinning, meaning they turn w/o friction.

I stand behind you in the chair and place my arm behind the chair and hold you in place.

You power on the treadmill, and the treadmill starts to move backwards. But I just hold you there w/ my arm extended, and only the wheels spin.

The treadmill moves faster. I don't have to hold you with any more force than I am already exerting* --> the wheels just continue to spin faster and faster. Work is done by the treadmill on the wheels, but there is no force increase whatsoever on the wheelchair to my arm since the wheels are absorbing all* of the energy. The ONLY function of the mill gaining RPMs is spinning the wheels faster.

Now say I walk alongside the treadmill and push you along forward (me pushing you = thrust from the airplanes engines). The speed you move forward is completely independent of the speed with which the treadmill turns. The speed you move forward is only relational to how hard I push you (how much thrust the engines exert). If I push slow, you roll forward slow. If I push you fast, you move forward fast --> no matter HOW fast the treadmill turns.

This is basically the same thing that's happening to the plane, because the engines are pushing you relative to the air, not the ground!!

* (actually I do have to apply a SLIGHTLY greater effort to keep you motionless b/c we currently do not have ANY wheel bearings that are 100% efficient, nor is the transfer or motion from the treadmill to the wheels 100% efficient, but you get the idea). THE PLANE WILL ACCELERATE AND FLY ONCE YOU START THE ENGINES, w/ the only difference being the tires are rotating exponentially faster.

[man]

The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.

This is what I find hilarious about this problem: The question states that the treadmill matches the plane's speed, not the wheels' speed. So, all you people that said no, if the plane never moves (as the "no" people said) the treadmill would never move either.

[BABY J]

Can you make your cars speed differ from the tires? Kool trick - show me how.

[man]

Can you make your cars speed differ from the tires? Kool trick - show me how.

Here's how it's done:

1. Attach rocket to back of car.

2. Place car on treadmill.

3. Put car in neutral.

4. Put treadmill at 20mph.

5. Ignite rocket.

Solution: Car will move X mph (X being the speed at which it is propelled by the rocket) but the wheels will rotate at (X + 20) mph.

LOL, now your car is a jet without wings

[Echonova]

Can you make your cars speed differ from the tires? Kool trick - show me how.Last 30 seconds of the clip will explain all.
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2006/08/super-all-wheel-drive-hyun_115488258760888720.html

[Ruiner]

This is what I find hilarious about this problem: The question states that the treadmill matches the plane's speed, not the wheels' speed. So, all you people that said no, if the plane never moves (as the "no" people said) the treadmill would never move either.

Bingo on the bolded part. :)

[ISAtlanta300]

Killer - watch these:

Here it is with your own eyes. The plane moves forward. Given a long enough runway, it would gain speed, generate lift, and finally take off:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

Another one showing the plane moving forward:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDliz-YinyY

Using the flatbed of a truck as the treadmill that moves in the opposite direction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUnAU0MyHM


But wait a minute... the first video does not prove anything...

He sets the treadmill at speed 10, correct?

He then 'gasses up' the plane to take off, correct?

However, in the original question, proposal, the treadmill is able to match the speed of the wheels or whatever, correct? *speed of the plane (Edit)

But it is biased, cuase he is gassing up the plane, but the speed of the treadmill remains at 10.

A true experiment would have him increasing the speed of the treadmill, incremental to the speed of the plane/ gas of the plane. After all, the treadmill is magically able to match the speed of the plane instantaneously.

Example, if he is creating 20 thrust to roll the plane at the ground speed of 10, and the treadmill speed is at 10, then the plane will remain stationary

If he 'gasses the plane to the thrust of 40 to roll the wheels at 20, then the treadmill should 'match' the wheels at 20, and will remain stationary again...

if he puts 200 thrust to roll the wheels at groundspeed 100, then put the treadmill at 100, the plane will remain still......

of course if his thrust makes the wheels groundspeed faster than the treadmill it will take off..... but the original question has the treadmill always matching the speed of the plane....no matter how much thrust he puts.. the wheels keep spinning as fast as the treadmill goes backwards.... * actually twice as fast (edit)


The example of the luggage on the conveyor belt:

Yes, indeed, if you put your luggage on the conveyor beltand keep walking, your luggage does not stay stationary, why? because your pull in your arm creates a force greater than the backwards motion of the conveyor belt

now try this out... try to pull a 50lb luggage by your pinky in the hallway... pretty easy huh?? now imagine putting it on a treadmill.... set the speed at 2.0... pretty easy huh? now set the speed at 10.0... what would need to happen for you to move the 50lb luggage forward? exactly.. you have to pull with much force with your arm/ pinky to keep it stationary.. let alone pull it forward. I bet if you put the speed at 20, the luggage will fly off your pinky......

[speedminded]

The example of the luggage on the conveyor belt:

Yes, indeed, if you put your luggage on the conveyor beltand keep walking, your luggage does not stay stationary, why? because your pull in your arm creates a force greater than the backwards motion of the conveyor belt

now try this out... try to pull a 50lb luggage by your pinky in the hallway... pretty easy huh?? now imagine putting it on a treadmill.... set the speed at 2.0... pretty easy huh? now set the speed at 10.0... what would need to happen for you to move the 50lb luggage forward? exactly.. you have to pull with much force with your arm/ pinky to keep it stationary.. let alone pull it forward. I bet if you put the speed at 20, the luggage will fly off your pinky......The wheels are free rolling, until they speed up and overheat causing the bearings to fuse to the wheel the resistance will not change. 5mph, 10mph, 100mph....it would always take the same amount of force to pull the luggage whether it's on the ground or on the conveyor, no matter what the speed is.

[ISAtlanta300]

The wheels are free rolling, until they speed up and overheat causing the bearings to fuse to the wheel the resistance will not change. 5mph, 10mph, 100mph....it would always take the same amount of force to pull the luggage whether it's on the ground or on the conveyor, no matter what the speed is.

no, it would take the same amount of force to keep it stationary, but it won't move it forward untill you pull harder with your arm. But to pull it harder you should also match the force of the pull / your arm with the treadmill speed, according to the question......

[speedminded]

no, it would take the same amount of force to keep it stationary, but it won't move it forward untill you pull harder with your arm. But to pull it harder you should also match the force of the pull / your arm with the treadmill speed, according to the question......They are FREE SPINNING wheels, it will be no differant pulling 50lbs of luggage on a regular sidewalk as it would be backwards on a conveyor belt with you walking next to it*. ZERO differance and ZERO more effort. The conveyor can be going 10x the speed you a walking and it still won't have any effect on you pulling the luggage, it will only make the wheels spin faster.


*walking beside the conveyor belt, not on it.

[ISAtlanta300]

They are FREE SPINNING wheels, it will be no differant pulling 50lbs of luggage on a regular sidewalk as it would be backwards on a conveyor belt with you walking next to it*. ZERO differance and ZERO more effort. The conveyor can be going 10x the speed you a walking and it still won't have any effect on you pulling the luggage, it will only make the wheels spin faster.


*walking beside the conveyor belt, not on it.

Actually I am sure everyone has done the "walk backwards on a conveyorbelt" play as a kid, or even as adults (i am still tempted sometimes.. LOL), or on the escalator.... where you would walk backwards and remain stationary..... at that point you are matching the speed of the conveyor belt.

in order to get off the thing you would have to increase your pace. however, if when you increase your pace, they increased the speed, you would still be in the same place. You'd always have to overcome the speed of the conveyor to move forward.

If you put a jetpack on your back, yes you will get off... you would just have sore legs, as the pack will force you to move your legs faster and run.... but you just overcame the speed of the conveyor belt.

But if the conveyor belt matches the trust of your jetpack, your legs would prob. be burned to a cinder like fred flintstone, as the conveyor would be moving at .... oh maybe Mach 1 to match up with the speed of the rocket on your back, (with your legs burning up at Mach2 to try and keep up) but you still won't be going anywhere.....

[speedminded]

Actually I am sure everyone has done the "walk backwards on a conveyorbelt" play as a kid, or even as adults (i am still tempted sometimes.. LOL), or on the escalator.... where you would walk backwards and remain stationary..... at that point you are matching the speed of the conveyor belt.

in order to get off the thing you would have to increase your pace. however, if when you increase your pace, they increased the speed, you would still be in the same place. You'd always have to overcome the speed of the conveyor to move forward.

If you put a jetpack on your back, yes you will get off... you would just have sore legs, as the pack will force you to move your legs faster and run.... but you just overcame the speed of the conveyor belt.

But if the conveyor belt matches the trust of your jetpack, your legs would prob. be burned to a cinder like fred flintstone, as the conveyor would be moving at .... oh maybe Mach 1 to match up with the speed of the rocket on your back, (with your legs burning up at Mach2 to try and keep up) but you still won't be going anywhere.....Dude read the original example on this again, it clearly states "walks beside the moving sidewalk/conveyor" while pulling the lugguge on it. You aren't on it, you're not walking on it, you're walking beside it. Your arm as it pulls the lugguge is just like the trust of an engine on an airplane...

Read it again...


Let's use this analogy. Instead of looking at the airplane, let's back
up and go into the airport. Suppose you're walking down to your gate
and pulling your carry-on bag behind you. It's a nice new bag with low
friction wheels. No problem! Up ahead you see one of those moving
walkways. You don't see anyone coming, so you decide to do a little
experiment. You go over to the walkway that is moving TOWARDS you and
place your bag on it. Meanwhile, you step off to the side of the
walkway, and still holding on to the handle of your bag, you continue
to walk along. In fact, you intentionally walk along at the same speed
that the moving walkway is going, just in the opposite direction.
Question: does the bag move or does it remain stationary as you keep
walking? Obviously it moves with you. So why does your bag move
forward when you are walking at the same speed of the conveyor going
in the opposite direction?

The answer to that question is also the answer to the
airplane-conveyor question. To complete the analogy, the pull of your
arm is analogous to the force of the airplane engines. The bag's
wheels are analogous to the airplane tires. Do the nice low-friction
wheels on your bag on the conveyor pull against you anymore than they
do when you're just pulling your bag along normally? No, they don't.
They are free-wheeling, after all. Meanwhile, you're pulling the bag
with the same force in both cases. So in both cases, the bag keeps
moving forward. Likewise with the airplane, the pull of the engines
doesn't change nor does the force on the airplane imparted by the
tires change no matter what the ground is doing underneath the tires.
You have the same force imbalance in either case, and since Force =
mass x accceleration, you have the same acceleration. Remember, we are
talking airplane engines which push against the AIR, not the ground.
The acceleration is with respect to the AIR, thus the airplane
develops a speed relative to the air and can eventually take off...

John Strong
Ph.D., biochemical engineering
M.S., chemical engineering
B.S., mechanical engineering

[Hektik]

OMFG YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RETARDED...... THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF.... THE ANSWER IS YES....PLAIN AND SIMPLE....



THE WHEELS DO NOT MOVE THE AIRPLANE THE ENGINES THRUSTING AIR DO.....IF THE TREADMILL IS SET AT 100MPH AND THE AIRPLANE IS MOVING FORWARD AT 100MPH THE WHEELS WILL BE ROTATING AT 200MPH...THE TREADMILL AND THE AIRPLANE ARE MOVING AT THE SAME SPEED IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS....





FUCK.. BUNCH OF FUKING IDIOTS

[man]

lol, hektik's gonna kill someone

[Ruiner]

But wait a minute... the first video does not prove anything...

He sets the treadmill at speed 10, correct?

He then 'gasses up' the plane to take off, correct?

However, in the original question, proposal, the treadmill is able to match the speed of the wheels or whatever, correct? *speed of the plane (Edit)

But it is biased, cuase he is gassing up the plane, but the speed of the treadmill remains at 10.

-snip-

The speed of the plane, even without the treadmill, would be less than 10mph. Knowing that, it shows that even though the treadmill is going faster than the plane can forward (w/o the treadmill), the plane STILL moves forward.

[Echonova]

OMFG YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RETARDED...... THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF.... THE ANSWER IS YES....PLAIN AND SIMPLE....



THE WHEELS DO NOT MOVE THE AIRPLANE THE ENGINES THRUSTING AIR DO.....IF THE TREADMILL IS SET AT 100MPH AND THE AIRPLANE IS MOVING FORWARD AT 100MPH THE WHEELS WILL BE ROTATING AT 200MPH...THE TREADMILL AND THE AIRPLANE ARE MOVING AT THE SAME SPEED IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS....





FUCK.. BUNCH OF FUKING IDIOTS..

[Ruiner]

ISAtlanta300 - I see that you are about 35. Come on, man, use your head. Have you had any advanced college courses on Physics? Hell, ANY physics courses? You obviously cannot grasp this simple concept.

I'm being serious. The plane WILL take off. We can set up a wager and put the money in escrow until there is more proof if you would like. How does, $50,000 sound? THAT is how confident I am that the plane will move forward and take off. Are you that confident as well?

By the way, walking on an escalator is not a true analogy. Your feet/legs are what move you and they have to use the ground to push forward and create that movement. A plane, however, uses the AIR to push forward, not the ground. There is no speedometer to the wheels and there is no powertrain to the wheels. The wheels are ONLY there to hold the plane off of the ground. Because they spin freely, they provide no effect on the plane.

[Echonova]

The fact this thread has gone on for more than a year when the answer was given on the first page makes me sad.

[Ruiner]

The fact this thread has gone on for more than a year when the answer was given on the first page makes me sad.

Doesn't it, though?

[man]

But wait a minute... the first video does not prove anything...

He sets the treadmill at speed 10, correct?

He then 'gasses up' the plane to take off, correct?

However, in the original question, proposal, the treadmill is able to match the speed of the wheels or whatever, correct? *speed of the plane (Edit)

But it is biased, cuase he is gassing up the plane, but the speed of the treadmill remains at 10.

So you're saying that, before he "gasses it," that he has the throttle on the plane matching exactly speed X (in this case 10)?

What is clearly shown is a plane tied to the treadmill (no throttle). The instant the kid adds throttle (meaning the plane has not had time to accelerate to "speed 10") the plane begins to move forward.

Oh, and along with Ruiner, I will also throw in $50,000.

[speedminded]

ISAtlanta300 - I see that you are about 35. Come on, man, use your head. Have you had any advanced college courses on Physics? Hell, ANY physics courses? You obviously cannot grasp this simple concept.

I'm being serious. The plane WILL take off. We can set up a wager and put the money in escrow until there is more proof if you would like. How does, $50,000 sound? THAT is how confident I am that the plane will move forward and take off. Are you that confident as well?I haven't had any college physics courses, I must be dumb!! :tongue:

[Ruiner]

I haven't had any college physics courses, I must be dumb!! :tongue:

Hush, you are just naturally gifted. :yes:

[ISAtlanta300]

OMFG YOU PEOPLE ARE FUCKING RETARDED...... THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF.... THE ANSWER IS YES....PLAIN AND SIMPLE....



THE WHEELS DO NOT MOVE THE AIRPLANE THE ENGINES THRUSTING AIR DO.....IF THE TREADMILL IS SET AT 100MPH AND THE AIRPLANE IS MOVING FORWARD AT 100MPH THE WHEELS WILL BE ROTATING AT 200MPH...THE TREADMILL AND THE AIRPLANE ARE MOVING AT THE SAME SPEED IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS....





FUCK.. BUNCH OF FUKING IDIOTS


Who da fuck cares what the wheels are doing.. are you saying that if i fly at 100 mph and suddenly encounter a hurricane headwind at 100mph hurricane level I would just fly through it and not stall out? :)

[ISAtlanta300]

ISAtlanta300 - I see that you are about 35. Come on, man, use your head. Have you had any advanced college courses on Physics? Hell, ANY physics courses? You obviously cannot grasp this simple concept.

I'm being serious. The plane WILL take off. We can set up a wager and put the money in escrow until there is more proof if you would like. How does, $50,000 sound? THAT is how confident I am that the plane will move forward and take off. Are you that confident as well?

By the way, walking on an escalator is not a true analogy. Your feet/legs are what move you and they have to use the ground to push forward and create that movement. A plane, however, uses the AIR to push forward, not the ground. There is no speedometer to the wheels and there is no powertrain to the wheels. The wheels are ONLY there to hold the plane off of the ground. Because they spin freely, they provide no effect on the plane.


Hey just want to keep adding (jet) fuel to the fire.... Devil's advocate.. lol

[BuBBa DRiFT]

this whole time i was mis-reading the statement


now that i re-read it, it seems to be so simple. But correct me if im wrong.

in lamens terms, the plane needs to go speed A to take off. If the treadmill is going speed B in the opposite direction, then the plane will need to go speed c, which is B speed plus whatever speed is needed to match A speed. Remember that B speed, because it is moving opposite, will be a negative variable.

A: plane speed
B: treadmill speed
C: speed needed for takeoff
X: Variable speed needed to make A

C: (B+x=A)


now im trying to figure out why there is a debate, because the highest science class ive taken is high school chemistry, and after i understood the question, the answer came naturally.

[BuBBa DRiFT]

it helps to put fake numbers. Lets say 300 knots is needed for a plane to take off, Well the treadmill is running at -300 knots because it is going backwards, therefore, the plane would essentially need to put out 600 knots of power in order to reach 300 knots in forward speed. I think I've got it simplified enough.

[Hektik]

Who da fuck cares what the wheels are doing.. are you saying that if i fly at 100 mph and suddenly encounter a hurricane headwind at 100mph hurricane level I would just fly through it and not stall out? :)



OMG are you kidding me.....this is a treadmillhttp://cornellcollege.edu/classical_studies/lit/CLA364-1-2006/04groupfour/Images%20Group%204/week%202/Treadmill.jpg

it does not produce headwinds.... you simply place the objects wheels on top of the belt. (the black peice for your third grade ass... ) and the airlpane rolls on top of it ...what does 100mph headwinds have to do with the original equation....





you simply place the airplane on top of the treadmill like this
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/12/11/technology/poguespan.jpg

now imagine the treadmill is just as long as a regular runway at hartsfield airport.the wheels are free rolling (which means they DO NOT POWER ANYTHING. they just roll.) so no matter how fast the treadmill is going the airplane will still move forward. the wheels will just move at the speed the airplane is going PLUS the speed the treadmill is going .. this has nothing to do with headwinds, incline, rotation of the earth, wether or not the fat bitch in row 3 farted earlier, or if a butterfly flapped its wings in july....STOP THINKING SO HARD INTO THE QUESTION....

[Hektik]

Who da fuck cares what the wheels are doing.. are you saying that if i fly at 100 mph and suddenly encounter a hurricane headwind at 100mph hurricane level I would just fly through it and not stall out? :)


OH AND THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT... YOU GUYS ARE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS...:doh:

[speedminded]

it helps to put fake numbers. Lets say 300 knots is needed for a plane to take off, Well the treadmill is running at -300 knots because it is going backwards, therefore, the plane would essentially need to put out 600 knots of power in order to reach 300 knots in forward speed. I think I've got it simplified enough.negative, the plane needs NO additional power to reach any speed. The conveyor has ZERO effect on the speed or power of the plane, it will only make the wheels spin faster.

[BABY J]

Fuckin tards - lol. WE HAVE LIFTOFF!

[Big Baller]

FUCK

WHAT DO YOU MOTHER FUCKERS NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS.

THE ONLY THING THE FUCKING WHEELS DO IS HOLD THE PLANE OFF THE FUCKING GROUND. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW FAST THE WHEELS ARE MOVING OR IF THE TREADMILL MATCHES THE SPEED OF THE WHEELS. THE PLANE DOES NOT USE THE WHEELS TO PROPEL ITSELF.

FUCK YOU PEOPLE ARE RETARDED

[Ruiner]

this whole time i was mis-reading the statement


now that i re-read it, it seems to be so simple. But correct me if im wrong.

in lamens terms, the plane needs to go speed A to take off. If the treadmill is going speed B in the opposite direction, then the plane will need to go speed c, which is B speed plus whatever speed is needed to match A speed. Remember that B speed, because it is moving opposite, will be a negative variable.

A: plane speed
B: treadmill speed
C: speed needed for takeoff
X: Variable speed needed to make A

C: (B+x=A)


now im trying to figure out why there is a debate, because the highest science class ive taken is high school chemistry, and after i understood the question, the answer came naturally.

Wrong. No matter what speed "B" is, it will not make ANY difference in how the plane functions/takes off. All that speed "B" will do is spin the wheels (that spin freely) on the plane more quickly. Spinning the wheels will not stop it from going forward, however.

[Ruiner]

it helps to put fake numbers. Lets say 300 knots is needed for a plane to take off, Well the treadmill is running at -300 knots because it is going backwards, therefore, the plane would essentially need to put out 600 knots of power in order to reach 300 knots in forward speed. I think I've got it simplified enough.

No, you still don't understand it.

Do this:

Take a matchbox car and a piece of paper out. Now, put the matchbox car on the piece of paper and push it foward. After you push it forward, "pull" the paper back very quickly. The paper = the treadmill.

Does the car KEEP moving forward even though you pulled the paper back as fast as, if not faster, than the car was initially moving forward? The answer is yes. THERE is your answer. The car continued to move forward, but the WHEELS on the car just spun faster. It didn't change the forward momentum, though. :)

[BABY J]

If you don't understand this:



Do this:

Take a matchbox car and a piece of paper out. Now, put the matchbox car on the piece of paper and push it foward. After you push it forward, "pull" the paper back very quickly. The paper = the treadmill.

Does the car KEEP moving forward even though you pulled the paper back as fast as, if not faster, than the car was initially moving forward? The answer is yes. THERE is your answer. The car continued to move forward, but the WHEELS on the car just spun faster. It didn't change the forward momentum, though. :)

or if you do not understand this:


Think of it with respect to a wheelchair on the treadmill.

You're sitting in a wheelchair on a treadmill. The wheelchair wheels are free-spinning, meaning they turn w/o friction.

I stand behind you in the chair and place my arm behind the chair and hold you in place.

You power on the treadmill, and the treadmill starts to move backwards. But I just hold you there w/ my arm extended, and only the wheels spin.

The treadmill moves faster. I don't have to hold you with any more force than I am already exerting* --> the wheels just continue to spin faster and faster. Work is done by the treadmill on the wheels, but there is no force increase whatsoever on the wheelchair to my arm since the wheels are absorbing all* of the energy. The ONLY function of the mill gaining RPMs is spinning the wheels faster.

Now say I walk alongside the treadmill and push you along forward (me pushing you = thrust from the airplanes engines). The speed you move forward is completely independent of the speed with which the treadmill turns. The speed you move forward is only relational to how hard I push you (how much thrust the engines exert). If I push slow, you roll forward slow. If I push you fast, you move forward fast --> no matter HOW fast the treadmill turns.

This is basically the same thing that's happening to the plane, because the engines are pushing you relative to the air, not the ground!!

* (actually I do have to apply a SLIGHTLY greater effort to keep you motionless b/c we currently do not have ANY wheel bearings that are 100% efficient, nor is the transfer or motion from the treadmill to the wheels 100% efficient, but you get the idea). THE PLANE WILL ACCELERATE AND FLY ONCE YOU START THE ENGINES, w/ the only difference being the tires are rotating exponentially faster.

Then stay off the drugs.

[man]

Who da fuck cares what the wheels are doing.. are you saying that if i fly at 100 mph and suddenly encounter a hurricane headwind at 100mph hurricane level I would just fly through it and not stall out? :)

So you're saying a treadmill creates headwind? What kind of treadmills do you use?

[Echonova]

It appears I will have to take matters into my own hands. The plane takes off, get over it. I am locking this thread.:locked:

[BABY J]

I am locking it too.

[man]

Me too

[Echonova]

Dayummm triple locked. Nobody's gonna post in this biatch now.

[man]

Fo' realz

[Echonova]

Fo' realzI be serius bout dis, nomo postn in da thread.

[Leadfoot_mf]

i wish the plane on the treadmill would crash and burn into this thread.

of course it would be after it had liftoff.

[speedminded]

As long as people keep voting no i'm gonna keep it alive! :tongue:

[Echonova]

As long as people keep voting no i'm gonna keep it alive! :tongue:Damn you!!!!! I put a genuine "faux" lock on this and you guys blew it to hell. Thanks. ~throws hands up~

[Leadfoot_mf]

well seeing how the most of the population on IA is retarded this will never die.

[man]

well seeing how the most of the population on IA is retarded this will never die.

Yeah, this is rediculous

[speedminded]

Damn you!!!!! I put a genuine "faux" lock on this and you guys blew it to hell. Thanks. ~throws hands up~I could tell it wasn't a real lock because its got a sunroof and doesn't have 5 lugs.

[man]

I could tell it wasn't a real lock because its got a sunroof and doesn't have 5 lugs.

LOL, Lock Type-ARGGHHHHHH

[Doppelgänger]

the plane will not take off. its impossable.

[man]

the plane will not take off. its impossable.

O rly?

[Doppelgänger]

ya rly

[man]

ya rly

How do you figure that?

[Leadfoot_mf]

its a close race but stupid is ahead.

[man]

its a close race but stupid is ahead.

It's some Tortoise vs Hare shit in here.

[Doppelgänger]

how fast is the tread mill going? is the plane moving onto the tread mill while is already moving? or is the plane and the tread mill 'powering up' at the same time?

[ISAtlanta300]

So you're saying a treadmill creates headwind? What kind of treadmills do you use?

I was doing it for example's sake...


ok FUCK the wheels..

Scenario:

A plane does an emergency belly landing in a freaking river.... with a waterfall close by.

The engines still work, and are able to only push the plane at 50MPH (take off speed.. for example's sake).

But the waterfall nearby causes a strong 200MPH current in the river , moving towards the waterfall

As the plane slowly moves backwards towards the waterfall, the pilot starts the engines...

Will the pilot be able to escape his doom or will the plane move backwards into the waterfall??

[Echonova]

I could tell it wasn't a real lock because its got a sunroof and doesn't have 5 lugs.It will be 5 lug soon enough. The real giveaway was the steering wheel is still on the left.

[speedminded]

how fast is the tread mill going? is the plane moving onto the tread mill while is already moving? or is the plane and the tread mill 'powering up' at the same time?The treadmill is moving the exact same speed as the plane, if the plane isn't moving forward then the treadmill isn't going anywhere either...as the plane's engines creates thrust propelling the plane forward the treadmill speeds up...




The result? The wheels spin twice as fast as the plane is going but the treadmill has no effect on the forward motion of the plane.

[Doppelgänger]

I was doing it for example's sake...


ok FUCK the wheels..

Scenario:

A plane does an emergency belly landing in a freaking river.... with a waterfall close by.

The engines still work, and are able to only push the plane at 50MPH (take off speed.. for example's sake).

But the waterfall nearby causes a strong 200MPH current in the river , moving towards the waterfall

As the plane slowly moves backwards towards the waterfall, the pilot starts the engines...

Will the pilot be able to escape his doom or will the plane move backwards into the waterfall??

it would sink first

[SL65AMG]

Harriet jet FTW!

harrier

[Echonova]

I was doing it for example's sake...


ok FUCK the wheels..

Scenario:

A plane does an emergency belly landing in a freaking river.... with a waterfall close by.

The engines still work, and are able to only push the plane at 50MPH (take off speed.. for example's sake).

But the waterfall nearby causes a strong 200MPH current in the river , moving towards the waterfall

As the plane slowly moves backwards towards the waterfall, the pilot starts the engines...

Will the pilot be able to escape his doom or will the plane move backwards into the waterfall??Everyone knows the pilot will escape doom. It's in the script. Unless the pilot is the bad guy.

[Doppelgänger]

The treadmill is moving the exact same speed as the plane, if the plane isn't moving forward than the treadmill isn't going anywhere...as the plane's engines create thrust propelling the plane forward the treadmill speeds up...




The result? The wheels spin twice as fast as the plane is going but the treadmill has no effect on the forward motion of the plane.

So it was precalculated that xx lb of thrust = xx mph? The wheels will explode.

[speedminded]

So it was precalculated that xx lb of thrust = xx mph? The wheels will explode.Planes come in for a landing faster than they take off, it has nothing to do with bearings or friction loss in the wheels or whether the wheels can withstand a higher rate of speed. Can the goddamn plane propel itself forward on a conveyor belt in reverse? The answer is yes, there is nothing preventing it from moving forward, gaining speed, and taking off just like any other runway.

[Dirty Octopus™]

okay ive figured it out.

it wont go NO WHERE!
cuz it has no wings. :yes:

[Doppelgänger]

well, if the plane has vtech it can do anything it wants... or at least it will try...... kinda like most idiot Honduh owners. That, or if you feed the engines the souls of eleventeen thousand children...because thats the only thing that can overpower the directional scrub radius friction of the traction circle. See? I am right again.

[fire7882]

The best way to look at this is to imagine the plane is hovering above the treadmill since the wheels are free spinning(no friction). Even if the treadmill was moving and the plane had no thrust, it wouldn't move.(it would in real life because there is no such thing as 0 friction)

Disclamer - yes i voted no before really thinking about the question

[Echonova]

I pity da youts of America

[Doppelgänger]

So wait... you're saying that if the plane's engines were off it would sink? man.. .that sucks.

[ISAtlanta300]

Everyone knows the pilot will escape doom. It's in the script. Unless the pilot is the bad guy.

What about if the pilot is the bad guy but the passengers are the good guys?? LOL

Will the plane will break in half?

[Echonova]

What about if the pilot is the bad guy but the passengers are the good guys?? LOL

Will the plane will break in half?Yes, but not quite in half. The cockpit will break off and go over the waterfall to meet Davey Jones, while the body of the plane (which is bigger) will get hung up on the rocks at the waterfall's edge. Giving the hero just enough time to rescue everyone and ~plot twist~ have a final showdown the the mastermind behind the entire thing

[ISAtlanta300]

The best way to look at this is to imagine the plane is hovering above the treadmill since the wheels are free spinning(no friction). Even if the treadmill was moving and the plane had no thrust, it wouldn't move.(it would in real life because there is no such thing as 0 friction)

Disclamer - yes i voted no before really thinking about the question

But you can't imagine it like that, because the plane is not a hovercraft. It is also not suspended by wires over the treadmill, but resting on the wheels, creating weight. And Mass. Therefore the wheels, plane, thrust all create mass.. and that mass creates speed. E=MC 2. If the threadmill (E) matches the speed of the mass (MC2) it won't go anywhere (won't get wind beneath the wings.... cause he is not the hero... flyy flyyyyy flyyyyy away so high, so high I almost touch the sky... thank you.. thank you for being the wind beneath my wings....)


LOL just trying to get something going here......

[speedminded]

Yes, but not quite in half. The cockpit will break off and go over the waterfall to meet Davey Jones, while the body of the plane (which is bigger) will get hung up on the rocks at the waterfall's edge. Giving the hero just enough time to rescue everyone and ~plot twist~ have a final showdown the the mastermind behind the entire thingbut in actuality it's all really just a dream...a really wet dream.

[speedminded]

But you can't imagine it like that, because the plane is not a hovercraft. It is also not suspended by wires over the treadmill, but resting on the wheels, creating weight. And Mass. Therefore the wheels, plane, thrust all create mass.. and that mass creates speed. E=MC 2. If the threadmill (E) matches the speed of the mass (MC2) it won't go anywhere (won't get wind beneath the wings.... cause he is not the hero... flyy flyyyyy flyyyyy away so high, so high I almost touch the sky... thank you.. thank you for being the wind beneath my wings....)


LOL just trying to get something going here......mass creates speed? :thinking:

[ISAtlanta300]

Yes, but not quite in half. The cockpit will break off and go over the waterfall to meet Davey Jones, while the body of the plane (which is bigger) will get hung up on the rocks at the waterfall's edge. Giving the hero just enough time to rescue everyone and ~plot twist~ have a final showdown the the mastermind behind the entire thing

The body gets hung up on the rock, while the hero is able to make a lasso out of snakes (on the plane). He is able to use this to pull himself to the shore. Then uses more snakes to create a rope-bridge for the passengers to safety. While the bad guy, from the depths of the waterfall cries out.. "Damn you ! Damn you dirty ape !!"

[BKgen®]

just give up you fucking morons.

to sum all this up, the answer is NO -- the plane will NOT fly.

In order for ANY LIFT to be created with a plane, there needs to be MOVING AIR passing under the plane's wings involved in the equation, which obviously isn't there.

/thread.

now stfu.

[fire7882]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]But you can't imagine it like that, because the plane is not a hovercraft.QUOTE]

You have to because that's the way the question was written. :crazy:

[speedminded]

just give up you fucking morons.

to sum all this up, the answer is NO -- the plane will NOT fly.

In order for ANY LIFT to be created with a plane, there needs to be MOVING AIR passing under the plane's wings involved in the equation, which obviously isn't there.

/thread.

now stfu.What's preventing the plane from moving forward, gaining speed, and creating lift?

[ISAtlanta300]

mass creates speed? :thinking:

The thrusting of the engines make the mass create speed. Was typing too fast.


It's the same principle on why a spacecraft could get to the edge of a black hole, and not fall in (in essence keep orbiting it) but once he crosses the threshold, there is no escaping, no matter how much thrust / boosters he fires away. He will fall in slowly, then gradually faster, until he reaches event horizon.

You'd have to accept the principle that there will be a 'border' or edge where the aircraft's thrust matches the black hole's pull. If you accept that there could be a force which equals the force of the craft, then you'd have to accept that it is possible for the craft to stay stationary..... until it runs out of fuel. If it had unlimited fuel, it would just stay stationary forever.....

[ISAtlanta300]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]But you can't imagine it like that, because the plane is not a hovercraft.QUOTE]

You have to because that's the way the question was written. :crazy:

Wel heck in that case of couse it will take off! LOL

[BKgen®]

What's preventing the plane from moving forward, gaining speed, and creating lift?


this:


The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane.

therefore the bitch is stationary. a.k.a. not moving forward.

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=fire7882]

Wel heck in that case of couse it will take off! LOLActually the way a plane propels itself is no differant than a hovercraft or airboat.

[speedminded]

this:



therefore the bitch is stationary. a.k.a. not moving forward.The wheels are free spinning, the treadmill can be going 10 TIMES the speed of the plane and it still won't effect it any way, it will only make the wheels spin 10 times faster but the plane will still propel itself forward just like any other runway.

[ISAtlanta300]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]Actually the way a plane propels itself is no differant than a hovercraft or airboat.

Actually the way of propulsion is the same, that's right. However, the hovercraft or airboat has no friction. They are in essence riding on air, while the aircraft's wheels touches the ground. The hovercraft is just floating. A plane does not float. You could theoretically spin a hovercraft around like a balloon with your hands if it's floating, but not a plane.

By your definition, a speedboat would burn the same amount of fuel whether it is going up or down the river... that would not be the case.

[Echonova]

The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.Troof!!

[BKgen®]

The wheels are free spinning, the treadmill can be going 10 TIMES the speed of the plane and it still won't effect it any way, it will only make the wheels spin 10 times faster but the plane will still propel itself forward just like any other runway.


if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip :)

[BKgen®]

there's a list of ingredients in the recipe of flight.

thrust
lift
drag (Created by airflow) <--nowhere to be seen in this problem.
weight (how light the plane is)

i win.

now please, shut down this stupid thread. i'm sick of looking at it.

[Echonova]

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip :)Go down the escalator in roller skates the wrong way.

[Dirty Octopus™]

okay... if there was a dinasawr on the plane it wouldnt go ANYWHERS! :yes:

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=speedminded]

Actually the way of propulsion is the same, that's right. However, the hovercraft or airboat has no friction. They are in essence riding on air, while the aircraft's wheels touches the ground. The hovercraft is just floating. A plane does not float. You could theoretically spin a hovercraft around like a balloon with your hands if it's floating, but not a plane.

By your definition, a speedboat would burn the same amount of fuel whether it is going up or down the river... that would not be the case.An airboat has far more friction loss than an airplane on its free spinning wheels.

Back to the airplane:
Imagine the conveyor was flush with the ground and the transition was near seamless. The plane is taxi'ing on the runway approaching the conveyor, closer and closer, say it's going 10mph. As it goes on the conveyor that's in reverse spinning towards it is the plane going to stop or will it continue forward at 10mph?


Answer, the plane will continue forward at 10mph but the wheels will be spinning backwards at 20mph.

[Echonova]

okay... if there was a dinasawr on the plane it wouldnt go ANYWHERS! :yes:Plane might not go anywhere, but my white ass will be.

[speedminded]

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip :)What powers your body? Your FEET! Just like a car is powered by it's wheels. Is an airplane powered by it's wheels, No. Is it powered by anything that touches the ground, no. The wheels are free spinning.

[BKgen®]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]An airboat has far more friction loss than an airplane on its free spinning wheels.

Back to the airplane:
Imagine the conveyor was flush with the ground and the transition was near seamless. The plane is taxi'ing on the runway approaching the conveyor, closer and closer, say it's going 10mph. As it goes on the conveyor that's in reverse is the plane going to stop or will it continue forward at 10mph?


Answer, the plane will continue forward at 10mph and the wheels will be spinning backwards at 20mph.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/405119553_6f791c6df7_o.jpg

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=speedminded]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/171/405119553_6f791c6df7_o.jpgExplain to me how I am wrong...

[BKgen®]

What powers your body? Your FEET! Just like a car is powered by it's wheels. Is an airplane powered by it's wheels, No. Is it powered by anything that touches the ground, no. The wheels are free spinning.

well, it's obvious that i've already won, but i'll humor you anyway.



Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?

^^show me where it says anything in there about a power/thrust source.

:no:

[Dirty Octopus™]

Plane might not go anywhere, but my white ass will be.
shit... i see your point. :thinking:

[Echonova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk

[speedminded]

well, it's obvious that i've already won, but i'll humor you anyway.




^^show me where it says anything in there about a power/thrust source.

:no:It's an airplane, you know they have engines and that's what propels them forward, whether prop or jet it doesn't matter...both yield the exact same result.

[BABY J]

if i'm walking the wrong way down an escalator at the same speed as the escalator itself, will i go anywhere? NO.

but i might fly if i trip :)


You just proved it to yourself idiot.

If you walk down the escalator at the SAME speed as the escalator you will go nowhere.

If I come up behind you thought and PUSH you (thrust), you will travel the direction that I push you REGARDLESS of how fast yoru feet are moving.

[BKgen®]

It's an airplane, you know they have engines and that's what propels them forward, whether prop or jet it doesn't matter...both yield the exact same result.

so gliders have engines, too? never knew that.
:rolleyes:

[ISAtlanta300]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EopVDgSPAk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmbsd_o5whI&mode=related&search=


LOL

[BKgen®]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmbsd_o5whI&mode=related&search=


LOL

:lmfao:

repped.

[Echonova]

so gliders have engines, too? never knew that.
:rolleyes:No but gliders are towed into the air by a plane with a engine.

[speedminded]

so gliders have engines, too? never knew that.
:rolleyes:This thread from the very beginning, starting with the title, pertains to planes. Planes propel themselves, planes use runways, gliders use neither.



:lmfao:

repped.Why are you lauging, that vid proves you're wrong ;)

[BKgen®]

No but gliders are towed into the air by a plane with a engine.


then there would also have to be a tow-plane on the treadmill with the glider. the problem only says there's one plane.

you guys are completely missing the point here... even if the plane could move and keep up enough speed for flight, there is no air passing under the wings. Therefore: no lift. The damn plane could stay there allllllll day long, but never get airborne.

without moving air to create drag against the wings, there can be no flight.

what's so fucking hard to understand about that?


(It would probably work if there was a fan in front of the conveyer belt pushing against the plane.)

[BABY J]

1) treadmill is going this way <----------

2) guy on skates is holding on to a string connected to the back of a ugly black square truck

**(ONLY reason he needs to hold on AT ALL is b/c we currently to not have ANY wheel bearings that are 100% efficient, so MINIMAL backwards motion will occur when the mill starts) ... this is negligent though.

3) truck drives (thrust) this way -----> (VTEC ENGAGES - OH SHITZ, HOLD ON SON!!!!!!)

Do we ALL agree that the idiot on the skates (as long as there is energy pushing/pulling him forward) will accelerate this way ----->???

[BKgen®]

:lmfao: ^^

[ISAtlanta300]

[QUOTE=ISAtlanta300]An airboat has far more friction loss than an airplane on its free spinning wheels.

Back to the airplane:
Imagine the conveyor was flush with the ground and the transition was near seamless. The plane is taxi'ing on the runway approaching the conveyor, closer and closer, say it's going 10mph. As it goes on the conveyor that's in reverse spinning towards it is the plane going to stop or will it continue forward at 10mph?


Answer, the plane will continue forward at 10mph but the wheels will be spinning backwards at 20mph.

Hmmm so by your definition if someone were to press the EMERGENCY STOP on the treadmill, the plane would suddenly be going 20 MPH now on the stopped treadmill even if his speed was set and untouched, at 10mph ??

I smell a new sport... conveyor-belt drag racing !! Go 100mph, press stop, then fly by at 200mph instantaneously !!!

[ISAtlanta300]

You just proved it to yourself idiot.

If you walk down the escalator at the SAME speed as the escalator you will go nowhere.

If I come up behind you thought and PUSH you (thrust), you will travel the direction that I push you REGARDLESS of how fast yoru feet are moving.

Of course.. but then the treadmill would not be matching your speed anymore, lest it magically adjusted itself to the speed of the force of your push.

[speedminded]

then there would also have to be a tow-plane on the treadmill with the glider. the problem only says there's one plane.

you guys are completely missing the point here... even if the plane could move and keep up enough speed for flight, there is no air passing under the wings. Therefore: no lift. The damn plane could stay there allllllll day long, but never get airborne.

without moving air to create drag against the wings, there can be no flight.

what's so fucking hard to understand about that?What prevents the plane from moving forward? Think about it!


Here's another analogy, on a skateboard and approaching a normal everyday treadmill that is on, you're rolling towards its then lean back shifting your weight behind the rear wheels lifting the front of the skateboard just before coming in contact with the treadmill....now the rear wheels are on the ground and the front two are on the treadmill. Are you going to fly backwards or just sit there spinning the front wheels?

[speedminded]

[QUOTE=speedminded]

Hmmm so by your definition if someone were to press the EMERGENCY STOP on the treadmill, the plane would suddenly be going 20 MPH now on the stopped treadmill even if his speed was set and untouched, at 10mph ??

I smell a new sport... conveyor-belt drag racing !! Go 100mph, press stop, then fly by at 200mph instantaneously !!!The speed of the plane would NOT change -- you can stop it instantly or you can speed it up to 100 mph, the speed the plane progresses forward will never change...it will only effect the speed of the wheels.

[ISAtlanta300]

1) treadmill is going this way <----------

2) guy on skates is holding on to a string connected to the back of a ugly black square truck

**(ONLY reason he needs to hold on AT ALL is b/c we currently to not have ANY wheel bearings that are 100% efficient, so MINIMAL backwards motion will occur when the mill starts) ... this is negligent though.


*** stand on a moving treadmill with rollerblades, and I assure you the backwards motion will not be minimal. The weight of the person on the wheels will create resistance to the ground, and can only free-wheel if he is able to hold on/ compensate for the resistance by a direct and opposite force, hence the holding on.

3) truck drives (thrust) this way -----> (VTEC ENGAGES - OH SHITZ, HOLD ON SON!!!!!!)

Do we ALL agree that the idiot on the skates (as long as there is energy pushing/pulling him forward) will accelerate this way ----->???


Yes, UNLESSSSSSSS

4) conveyor belt moves (thrust) this way <------ (VTEC ENGAGES AS WELL MATCHING THE PULL/FORCE/THRUST/SPEED/ GIGGAWATT OF THE TRUCK- OH SHITZ, SON !!!! YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!! I BE FREE-WHEELING !!!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Conveyor belt surfing FTW !!!)))

[Echonova]

Think about it.

[Echonova]

The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.Troof!!

[BABY J]

Yes, UNLESSSSSSSS

4) conveyor belt moves (thrust) this way <------ (VTEC ENGAGES AS WELL MATCHING THE PULL/FORCE/THRUST/SPEED/ GIGGAWATT OF THE TRUCK- OH SHITZ, SON !!!! YOU AIN'T GOING NOWHERE!!! I BE FREE-WHEELING !!!!! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Conveyor belt surfing FTW !!!)))

The only think the conveyor can match is the wheels spinning - which won't matter.



**sigh**


Okay - I will help you another way.

In the pic below. I want you to get the 2nd plate (from the top). You can NOT lift the top plate. You can only touch the 2nd plate and the top one. How do you do it?? You may lift the 2nd plate (BARELY) if needed.

[ISAtlanta300]

What prevents the plane from moving forward? Think about it!


Here's another analogy, on a skateboard and approaching a normal everyday treadmill that is on, you're rolling towards its then lean back shifting your weight behind the rear wheels lifting the front of the skateboard just before coming in contact with the treadmill....now the rear wheels are on the ground and the front two are on the treadmill. Are you going to fly backwards or just sit there spinning the front wheels?

You will be spinning the front wheels and sitting on your ass. But what does this have to do with anything?? Your weight is still shifted to solid, non-moving ground. Sit your entire fat ass on all four wheels on a moving treadmill and you WILL fly backwards with skateboard and all.

[BKgen®]

What prevents the plane from moving forward? Think about it!


in the problem, it states that the plane is moving one way while the belt is moving the opposite way at the same exact speed. Think about it. (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. the two speeds cancel each other out and the plane goes nowhere.

[BABY J]

in the problem, it states that the plane is moving one way while the belt is moving the opposite way at the same exact speed. Think about it. (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. the two speeds cancel each other out and the plane goes nowhere.

What you just admitted to is that the wheels spinning means nothing - which is what we want you to see. So, you got your -10 and you +10 - PERFECT!! Plane is going nowhere fast. Now fire up the JET engines to 100% - the plane moves forward yes? And if not - what is stopping it from moving forward.

[ISAtlanta300]

The only think the conveyor can match is the wheels spinning - which won't matter.


Of course in that scenario the plane will take off, and the ugly black square van will pull you.

But the original question does NOT have the conveyor match the speed of the wheels, but the speed of the plane/ mass, which could be interpreted that it is able to counteract any thrust/ forward motion of the plane itself by adjusting its speed accordingly.

[Echonova]

Let "assume" the plane can take off, but the plane and conveyor belt are at Hartsfield Jackson airport. Will the plane take off?

[BABY J]

Of course in that scenario the plane will take off, and the ugly black square van will pull you.

But the original question does NOT have the conveyor match the speed of the wheels, but the speed of the plane/ mass, which could be interpreted that it is able to counteract any thrust/ forward motion of the plane itself by adjusting its speed accordingly.

I will play your game. How can the conveyor match/halt ANY forward motion that the plane has (as long as it has a jet engine and is not wheel-driven). You're ALMOST there... I have faith in you. LOL

[PRiMAdonna]

wow.....this is a close one...

[BABY J]

Of course in that scenario the plane will take off, and the ugly black square van will pull you.

But the original question does NOT have the conveyor match the speed of the wheels, but the speed of the plane/ mass, which could be interpreted that it is able to counteract any thrust/ forward motion of the plane itself by adjusting its speed accordingly.


So - give the ugly stick man wings and he will lift off.

[speedminded]

You will be spinning the front wheels and sitting on your ass. .Why would you be sitting on your ass? Can you not stand motionless with the front of the skateboard up in the air? If you did that up against the treadmill with two wheels on the ground and two on the treadmill whats going to happen? It's just going to spin the front wheels backwards the same speed at the treadmill right but you're not going to go anywhere right?


But what does this have to do with anything?? Your weight is still shifted to solid, non-moving ground. Sit your entire fat ass on all four wheels on a moving treadmill and you WILL fly backwards with skateboard and all.It has EVERYTHING to do with it. You are right, if you sit your ass on the skateboard you will go backwards if the treadmill is on, BUT what happens if you hold on to the bar or someone behind you places their hand on your back...you don't go anywhere right? You holding or their hand is no differant than the thrust of a plane engine. You can speed the treadmill up all the way and it will won't take any more effort to hold you in the exact same spot, why? Because the wheels are free spinning.

[speedminded]

in the problem, it states that the plane is moving one way while the belt is moving the opposite way at the same exact speed. Think about it. (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. the two speeds cancel each other out and the plane goes nowhere.You think about it. What propels it forward? The thrust from the engines. How is the motion of a conveyor belt going to affect the thrust of an airplane engine. It won't, it can't. The conveyor will only make the wheels of the plane spin backwards faster...has no effect on the forward movement of the plane.

[BABY J]

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35971919&postcount=678

[ISAtlanta300]

What you just admitted to is that the wheels spinning means nothing - which is what we want you to see. So, you got your -10 and you +10 - PERFECT!! Plane is going nowhere fast. Now fire up the JET engines to 100% - the plane moves forward yes? And if not - what is stopping it from moving forward.

Yes, but you are not applying 100% of anything to the treadmill. The treadmill in the original question, is asked to match the speed / force / thrust of the plane.


It's simple.. if you can accept that -10 and + 10 = Zero than you'd have to accept that the thusters were set so that the plane is at +10 (10MPH forward) and the threadmill is moving at -10 (10 MPH Backwards), so the plane is stationary, (AT ZERO), wheels spinning and all, UNTIL you fire the engine at 100%. This is logical. Cause if the treadmill is at -10 and the plane's engines are off, then the plane will move backwards on the treadmill at -10 (10mph backwards), just like if you were to just stand still on a moving treadmill. Even with rollerblades. Correct so far?

If you accept the principle that this magical threadmill is able to keep the plane stationary at -10/+10 then you'd have to accept the principle, that if all the stars align, and the treadmill is magical enough to instantaneously match ANY motion, thrust / speed of this plane, that it theoretically be possible to hold the plane stationary AT ANY SPEED, UNTIL the thursters are able to overcome this opposite force/resistance/etc. to start moving forward and lift off (eventually)

[Kyle]

in the problem, it states that the plane is moving one way while the belt is moving the opposite way at the same exact speed. Think about it. (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. the two speeds cancel each other out and the plane goes nowhere.
I would agree with that if we were talking about something propelled by the wheels, like a bicycle on a treadmill. Then yeah (-)10 + (+)10 = ZERO. But the thrust in this scenario is different.

I think the plane would take off. Even though the wheels are going backwards the plane is moving forward, so I doubt the wheel movement matters. Just a thought.

[Echonova]

Let "assume" the plane can take off, but the plane and conveyor belt are at Hartsfield Jackson airport. Will the plane take off?No one has yet to answer my question......

[ISAtlanta300]

Let "assume" the plane can take off, but the plane and conveyor belt are at Hartsfield Jackson airport. Will the plane take off?

No, it will just be delayed for 2 hours while the passengers sweat it on board with no A/C or toilets.

[BABY J]

Yes, but you are not applying 100% of anything to the treadmill. The treadmill in the original question, is asked to match the speed / force / thrust of the plane.


It's simple.. if you can accept that -10 and + 10 = Zero than you'd have to accept that the thusters were set so that the plane is at +10 910MPH forward) and the threadmill is moving at -10 (10 MPH Backwards), so the plane is stationary, (AT ZERO), wheels spinning and all, UNTIL you fire the engine at 100%. This is logical. Cause if the treadmill is at -10 and the plane's engines are off, then the plane will move backwards on the treadmill at -10 (10mph backwards), just like if you were to just stand still on a moving treadmill. Even with rollerblades. Correct so far?)

No - u are missing the fact that the wheels are "free-rolling". In this example, there would be no "backwards" motion at all. But even if there was, this would be a negligent amount.

[ISAtlanta300]

I will play your game. How can the conveyor match/halt ANY forward motion that the plane has (as long as it has a jet engine and is not wheel-driven). You're ALMOST there... I have faith in you. LOL

By spinning faster.

[BABY J]

By spinning faster.

I asked about the PLANE - u are talking about the WHEELS.

[BABY J]

By spinning faster.

In the pic below. I want you to get the 2nd plate (from the top). You can NOT lift the top plate, but you may touch it. How do you do it. Please answer... this is important.

[ISAtlanta300]

I asked about the PLANE - u are talking about the WHEELS.

no, I am talking about the THREADMILL spinning faster.... fuck da wheels... lol

[speedminded]

Yes, but you are not applying 100% of anything to the treadmill. The treadmill in the original question, is asked to match the speed / force / thrust of the plane.

It's simple.. if you can accept that -10 and + 10 = Zero than you'd have to accept that the thusters were set so that the plane is at +10 910MPH forward) and the threadmill is moving at -10 (10 MPH Backwards), so the plane is stationary, (AT ZERO), wheels spinning and all, UNTIL you fire the engine at 100%. This is logical. Cause if the treadmill is at -10 and the plane's engines are off, then the plane will move backwards on the treadmill at -10 (10mph backwards), just like if you were to just stand still on a moving treadmill. Even with rollerblades. Correct so far?

If you accept the principle that this magical threadmill is able to keep the plane stationary at -10/+10 then you'd have to accept the principle, that if all the stars align, and the treadmill is magical enough to instantaneously match ANY motion, thrust / speed of this plane, that it theoretically be possible to hold the plane stationary AT ANY SPEED, UNTIL the thursters are able to overcome this opposite force/resistance/etc. to start moving forward and lift off (eventually)This is where you mess up, +10 on the plane but -10 on the planes free spinning wheels, not the plane itself. Just because you spin the wheels backwards doesn't mean the plane which is powered by it's engines can't go forward. The plane will continue going forward at 10mph and the wheels will go backwards at the speed of the plane plus the speed of the treadmill.

[BABY J]

no, I am talking about the THREADMILL spinning faster.... fuck da wheels... lol

The only effect of a faster treadmill is the WHEELS spinning faster... which you ALREADY admitted doesn't matter.

[Echonova]

THE PLANE WILL TAKE OFF!!!!!!!

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x249/Echonova1/511761024_7eb4c67456_o.gif

[BABY J]

IS3...

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35972013&postcount=694

[©hris]

im gonna say no....

The traveling air moves passed the the flaps on the wing to create lift... if the plane is not moving there is no air passing under the wing..... therefore its not going to take off unless it was a Harrier Jet.

Turn the jet around and face it the other way so its going with the belt driven runway and you are gonna have a scud missle.

[©hris]

im gonna say no....

The traveling air moves passed the the flaps on the wing to create lift... if the plane is not moving there is no air passing under the wing..... therefore its not going to take off unless it was a Harrier Jet.

Turn the jet around and face it the other way so its going with the belt driven runway and you are gonna have a scud missle.


dude your an idiot... the plane will take off. :screwy:

[ISAtlanta300]

In the pic below. I want you to get the 2nd plate (from the top). You can NOT lift the top plate, but you may touch it. How do you do it. Please answer... this is important.

That's different, because now you are dealing with inertia.

Let me play your game. What happens if you were to SLOWLY pull a table cloth from a set table with glass and plates... will the plates not SLOWLY move back at you? How do you prevent that? By having someone hold the glass and plates no doubt? That holding is the opposite force or trust applied to keep the plates and glasses set.

[speedminded]

That's different, because now you are dealing with inertia.

Let me play your game. What happens if you were to SLOWLY pull a table cloth from a set table with glass and plates... will the plates not SLOWLY move back at you? How do you prevent that? By having someone hold the glass and plates no doubt? That holding is the opposite force or trust applied to keep the plates and glasses set.And what if those plates had free spinning wheels? Just like a hotwheels car ;)

[BABY J]

That's different, because now you are dealing with inertia.

Let me play your game. What happens if you were to SLOWLY pull a table cloth from a set table with glass and plates... will the plates not SLOWLY move back at you? How do you prevent that? By having someone hold the glass and plates no doubt? That holding is the opposite force or trust applied to keep the plates and glasses set.

SO - in your example, plates are coming at you slowly... if you push them the other way (faster than they are coming to you) then they move AWAY from you correct?

[BABY J]

That's different, because now you are dealing with inertia.

Let me play your game. What happens if you were to SLOWLY pull a table cloth from a set table with glass and plates... will the plates not SLOWLY move back at you? How do you prevent that? By having someone hold the glass and plates no doubt? That holding is the opposite force or trust applied to keep the plates and glasses set.

No - put free spinning wheels on those plates. You pull the cloth, plates stay still right? Right.

Now - pull the cloth towards you while pushing the plates AWAY from you - plates move away from you yes? Now push the FUCK out of the plates and give them wings - yay!!!! They fly!!!! Chicken or beef??:goodjob:

[ISAtlanta300]

No - u are missing the fact that the wheels are "free-rolling". In this example, there would be no "backwards" motion at all. But even if there was, this would be a negligent amount.

A roller blade's wheels are free rolling.. does that mean that you can stand on a moving treadmill and not fall on your ass??

remember, you are NOT HOLDING ON TO ANYTHING and NO ONE IS GRABBING YOUR ASS to keep you in place. You are in the OFF position, just like the plane. Just a big blob on wheels, on a treadmill... LOL

[speedminded]

A roller blade's wheels are free rolling.. does that mean that you can stand on a moving treadmill and not fall on your ass??

remember, you are NOT HOLDING ON TO ANYTHING and NO ONE IS GRABBING YOUR ASS to keep you in place. You are in the OFF position, just like the plane. Just a big blob on wheels, on a treadmill... LOLRead the original post, the treadmill is going the same speed as the plane. IF you aren't going anywhere then the treadmill isn't going anywhere either. Now If someone were to push you at say 1 foot per minute on the treadmill and the treadmill was rotating towards you at 1 foot per minute would you still not go forward until falling off the front of the treadmill? (if the front bar wasn't there)

[Echonova]

Quote:
Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?



The question states that the treadmill runs the same as the PLANES speed, not the wheel speed. They are two different things. The statement that the wheels were free-wheeling was not an accident.Troof!!!

[BABY J]

A roller blade's wheels are free rolling.. does that mean that you can stand on a moving treadmill and not fall on your ass??

remember, you are NOT HOLDING ON TO ANYTHING and NO ONE IS GRABBING YOUR ASS to keep you in place. You are in the OFF position, just like the plane. Just a big blob on wheels, on a treadmill... LOL

I will play your game.

---A ---

1) turn on treadmill on 10mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

--- B ---

1) turn on treadmill on 100mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

--- C ---

1) turn on treadmill on 100000mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

[BABY J]

Now - add that the wheels are free-spinning. Lift-off.

/thread

[BKgen®]

*sigh*

Forget about the damn wheels.
If the conveyer belt offsets the plane's speed, then the plane is
stationary to the ground and will achieve no more lift than if it was
just sitting still on the ground without a conveyor belt.

So unless there is a very strong headwind, it will not be able to
generate the lift necessary to take off.

Read the question again. The treadmill plays a crucial roll in the
plane's acquistion of speed as long as the plane is not airborne. If
it is still on the ground and the wheels are rolling forward at a rate
to move the plane at, say 150 mph, the conveyor belt is pulling it
backwards at the same 150 mph. So relative to the stationary earth,
the plane is going exactly nowhere. This is like going up the steps
of the down escalator at the same rate of speed the steps are going
down - you get nowhere. And if you are going nowhere and the wind is
not blowing, you will not generate any lift at all and therefore will
not be able to take off.

[speedminded]

Quote:
Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?


Troof!!!:goodjob: It's makes my day to see someone that understands this simple logic, would be even better if we could explain it to everyone that doesn't get it.

[ISAtlanta300]

This is where you mess up, +10 on the plane but -10 on the planes free spinning wheels, not the plane itself. Just because you spin the wheels backwards doesn't mean the plane which is powered by it's engines can't go forward. The plane will continue going forward at 10mph and the wheels will go backwards at the speed of the plane plus the speed of the treadmill.

THE TREADMILL IN QUESTION DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE WHEELS, BUT ABOUT THE SPEED OF THE PLANE !!

You forget the notion that the airplane still needs it's wheels for MOTION, then LIFT, then TAKE OFF.

The plane is NOT suspended by wires. The plane is NOT weighless. The plane is NOT floating on wheels. It is not a rocket.

I see your point though. You assume that the thurst will always overcome any opposite resistance put on the wheels by the treadmill SPINNING the wheels, but denying ANY forward motion (why? Because even though the wheels are FREE SPINNING, it still has to account for the MASS of the plane. the wheels HAVE to spin so fast as to overcome the WEIGHT put on by the moving MASS of the THRUSTERS+PLANE. Remember, even though the plane is stationary, it is still IN MOTION), and thusly on the motion, and thusly on the speed of the plane.

Yes, in that scenario OF COURSE it will take off.

[BABY J]

You are doing your escalator walk and going nowhere. I run up behind you on the escalator and give you a push - what happens?

[BKgen®]

Let's look at it this way - if you are running on a treadmill, do you
feel any wind? If you wouldn't then the aircraft's wings wouldn't
either.

[ISAtlanta300]

SO - in your example, plates are coming at you slowly... if you push them the other way (faster than they are coming to you) then they move AWAY from you correct?
Correct.


UNLESS you also pull the cloth a bit faster to match my push.

Push = pull

[speedminded]

*sigh*

Forget about the damn wheels.
If the conveyer belt offsets the plane's speed, then the plane is
stationary to the ground and will achieve no more lift than if it was
just sitting still on the ground without a conveyor belt.

So unless there is a very strong headwind, it will not be able to
generate the lift necessary to take off.

Read the question again. The treadmill plays a crucial roll in the
plane's acquistion of speed as long as the plane is not airborne. If
it is still on the ground and the wheels are rolling forward at a rate
to move the plane at, say 150 mph, the conveyor belt is pulling it
backwards at the same 150 mph. So relative to the stationary earth,
the plane is going exactly nowhere. This is like going up the steps
of the down escalator at the same rate of speed the steps are going
down - you get nowhere. And if you are going nowhere and the wind is
not blowing, you will not generate any lift at all and therefore will
not be able to take off.It DOES NOT offset the speed, it has NO effect on the speed of the plane, if the planes isn't going anywhere then the conveyor isn't either. If the planes engines are propelling it 50mph and the treadmill is spinning towards it 50mph then the plane is still going forward at 50mph....still going forward at 50mph...still going forward at 50mph...still going forward at 50mph...do you get it? The conveyor has no effect on the planes engines and it's ability to propel it forward, it can only make the wheels spin faster. If the plane is going forward at 50 mph and the treadmills is going backwards at 50 mph then the wheels are spinning at 100mph but the plane is still going forward at 50 mph.

[speedminded]

Let's look at it this way - if you are running on a treadmill, do you
feel any wind? If you wouldn't then the aircraft's wings wouldn't
either.Do planes have feet? No. Are they powered by legs? No. Do they have wheels? Yes. Are they powered by those wheels? No.

[BABY J]

Correct.


UNLESS you also pull the cloth a bit faster to match my push.

Push = pull

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now - you have seen people pull the cloth on NORMAL plates and they don't move right? So what will happen if you put wheels on said plates - then they DEF would not move... correct??

Take those non-moving plates, push them the opposite way that the cloth is being pulled and they WILL accelerate - yes?

[speedminded]

Correct.


UNLESS you also pull the cloth a bit faster to match my push.

Push = pullYou can pull the cloth 5 times the speed you push the plate, the plate will still move the exact same speed as it was before.

[ISAtlanta300]

I will play your game.

---A ---

1) turn on treadmill on 10mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

He will go forward, but then the treadmill is not matching your speed, like the scenario posted.


--- B ---

1) turn on treadmill on 100mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?


2) lol, more like fly backwards into the wall.

What is full boost? if it is <100mph he will gradually continue backwards. if it is = 100MPH he will stay put. If it's > 100MPH he will go forward.


--- C ---

1) turn on treadmill on 100000mph <---
2) guys starts rolling backwards
3) before he falls off the end, he hits his jet pack full boost... what happens?

Same as above.

[BABY J]

I'm gonna need you to put the weed down for a minute - lol.

[ISAtlanta300]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now - you have seen people pull the cloth on NORMAL plates and they don't move right? So what will happen if you put wheels on said plates - then they DEF would not move... correct??

Take those non-moving plates, push them the opposite way that the cloth is being pulled and they WILL accelerate - yes?

They actually DO move, but the way you tug the cloth creates a wave force in that their backwards motion equals the force of the cloth 'pushing' them back in their place.

If it were that easy everyone could do that trick.

[speedminded]

I'm gonna need you to put the weed down for a minute - lol.I'm beginning to think a little bit of green might help the situation.

To a point anyways, until you just get completely baked and stupid high: your face is tingling and feels like you have a 10lb weight on your head it actually enhances your thinking...but if you're thinking all wrong in the first place then I guess enhancing the wrong thought isn't going to help one bit, lol. :tongue:

[ISAtlanta300]

I'm gonna need you to put the weed down for a minute - lol.

Pass the dutch on da left hand side, brother....


LOL

[BKgen®]

shit. let's just steal a plane and try it ourselves :D

[speedminded]

shit. let's just steal a plane and try it ourselves :DI can get you a plane, several people on here own or have access to them...it's finding a 3,000 foot long treadmill that's the problem. ;)

[ISAtlanta300]

I spent too much time in here... LOL



Yes, it will eventually take off.



Baby J, this is the scenario to explain it:

Two guys are playing tug of war. Each one is pulling at 50lb/force. Who will win??

Answer.. Tie.

Same guys, on rollerblades. Playing tug of war. They are equally strong. Both pulling at 50lb. force. Who will win??

None of those fookas will go over the line.


Same guys, facing each other on threadmills. Equally strong. threadmills set as fast. Both pulling at 50lb. force. Who will win??

Fookas will get kicked out of the gym for horsing around.



One of the guys works out secretly. Rematch.

On solid ground: Other fool goes over the line.

On rollerblades: Other fool goes over the line.

On threadmill: At equal force and equal speed, they were tied. once the otherguy pulls an extra 50lb, the other fookah smashes his face into the treadmill.

Even if they increase the speed of the treadmill, the other guy still have to pull the exact same 50lb to keep it stationary. And once he flexes and pulls that extra 50lb it;s bye bye other guy.


The main problem is the distinction of friction, resistance, weight and speed. Different variables. Yes, the threadmil will be putting resistance to the wheels, but non on the engines, nor the wings for a matter of fact.

No matter how fast the conveyor goes, or the wheels spin, they won't match the thrust / pull / force of the engines, because not only are the wheels free spinning, the engine has no limiting factor or no resistance from anything.

The wheels willl indeed be spinning faster, but the take-off speed will be as if the treadmill was not there.

There is just no way of stopping motion by accelerating the treadmill, as long as the engines are providing trust. The engines will always win, because they have no factors acting upon them.


Cookie?

[BABY J]

Fuck a cookie.


NOOKIE!!!


Speaking of nookie... where is Jocelyn at? LOL




NE1 else doesn't get it?

[BKgen®]

I can get you a plane

ditto.. i was just saying


it's finding a 3,000 foot long treadmill that's the problem. ;)

hahaha yeah good point :D

[©hris]

call up the Myth Busters

[speedminded]

No matter how fast the conveyor goes, or the wheels spin, they won't match the thrust / pull / force of the engines, because not only are the wheels free spinning, the engine has no limiting factor or no resistance from anything.

The wheels willl indeed be spinning faster, but the take-off speed will be as if the treadmill was not there.

There is just no way of stopping motion by accelerating the treadmill, as long as the engines are providing trust. The engines will always win, because they have no factors acting upon them.


Cookie?Yes, you get a cookie! Two double chocolate chip peanut butter cookies with whipped caked icing in-between. Instant diabetic! :yumyum:

[BKgen®]

call up the Myth Busters

:werd:

[speedminded]

:werd:i've been trying to get jaime and adam to do it...the cost of a runway sized treadmill or even a scaled model is the limiting factor. $$$

[ISAtlanta300]

Yes, you get a cookie! Two double chocolate chip peanut butter cookies with whipped caked icing in-between. Instant diabetic! :yumyum:


Hmmmm i'd rather have a coochie....


Where's my Girlfriend?? ooh honeeeyyyy !!!

[BKgen®]

i've been trying to get jaime and adam to do it...the cost of a runway sized treadmill or even a scaled model is the limiting factor. $$$

but they could probably tell just by using a smaller scale version (kinda like the truck bed gas mileage experiment -- with the truck model in the water tunnel) --if you know which one i'm talking about lol

[BABY J]

I have another poll.

Submarine in a parking lot. Will VTEC engage if it was on a Thursday and the crew had cereal for breakfast??

Oh yeah - the submarine is blue and uses Mobil 1 oil.

[speedminded]

ditto.. i was just saying



hahaha yeah good point :DThe question of the day is, Why would we need a 3,000 foot long runway if the plane isn't going to go anywhere?!!! :ninja:

[speedminded]

but they could probably tell just by using a smaller scale version (kinda like the truck bed gas mileage experiment -- with the truck model in the water tunnel) --if you know which one i'm talking about lolThat's exactly what the video's Ruiner posted show...3 of the 4 easily proved it. The one with the flatbed truck was questionable, the idea was there but not as well done as the others.

[Echonova]

I have another poll.

Submarine in a parking lot. Will VTEC engage if it was on a Thursday and the crew had cereal for breakfast??

Oh yeah - the submarine is blue and uses Mobil 1 oil.Of course it will, unless the cow walked across the baseball field under a full moon. In which case the trezel rod will contact the conuter valve and cause a left-handed smoke shift pattern.

[BABY J]

Oh yeah - another poll too.

So - let's say you are banging an ghonorrea infected prostitute raw in the back of her VW bug downtown Denver. Will you get it too? B/c if so I need to go see a doctor.

Oh yeah - it was a Wednesday night.

[BABY J]

Of course it will, unless the cow walked across the baseball field under a full moon. In which case the trezel rod will contact the conuter valve and cause a left-handed smoke shift pattern.

Dairy cow or meat cow? Would it happen to be in a leap year?

[Doppelgänger]

the plane still cant take off.........

why?

Because your stupid asses are out on the runway arguing about it and causing a security breach of listed passengers that are not on the place. Therefor the plane sits still.

[BABY J]

Just answer the poll. I'm not looking for some explanation as I already know the damn answer. Either you think that the plane will take off or it won't. It's very simple. I would like to keep a record of who says it will and who says it won't. When the question is finally proven, we can all laugh at the people who were wrong. I made this thread public so that all of IA.com can know where you stand. :) Don't be a pussy, answer up. Stand by your convictions... :)

Why am I doing this? I'm bored.

Here is the question:

Suppose a plane is on a runway that acts as a conveyer belt. The conveyor belt is as long as a typical runway. The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction at the same speed as the plane. The wheels of the plane are free-rolling. Will the plane be able to take off?

Once again, I don't want an explanation. I already know the answer.

No. B/c the treadmill will keep the plane from moving. Duh.

[BKgen®]

Dairy cow or meat cow? Would it happen to be in a leap year?

do the chickens have large talons?

[Echonova]

That's exactly what the video's Ruiner posted show...3 of the 4 easily proved it. The one with the flatbed truck was questionable, the idea was there but not as well done as the others.Does anyone read my posts? I stated earlier that the flatbed was stupid. To the plane it doesn't matter the truck is moving. The "ground" is still stationary relative to the plane.

[Echonova]

Is the maximum of the minimum, the minimum of the maximum?

[BKgen®]

Does anyone read my posts? I stated earlier that the flatbed was stupid. To the plane it doesn't matter the truck is moving. The "ground" is still stationary relative to the plane.

my comment had nothing to do with comparing the truck experiment to the plane experiment. i was just saying that they could do a smaller scale experiment like the one with the truck instead of using a real plane.

[coolcat]

The plane uses THRUST to accelerate it, not wheel spin, it would take off if the conveyer belt was going ANY amount of speed (considering there is no friction in this problem)

[BKgen®]

The plane uses THRUST to accelerate it, not wheel spin, it would take off if the conveyer belt was going ANY amount of speed (considering there is no friction in this problem)

we've already answered this question... so stop posting your solutions. the answer is:

the plane will not take off unless Jack Bauer allows it to.