Obamacare and your premiums.

[Vteckidd]

Families would be better off WITHOUT the ACA. because they would being pay less than they are now:

What Will Obamacare Cost You? - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/special-report/2013/what-will-obamacare-cost-you-map.html)

49-State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums By Average Of 41% - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/)


249497

[.blank cd]

So, you believe people who lose their medical insurance and have to spend more out of pocket for those costs, and then choose to work less so they can get more subsidies from the govt to pay for that hike in insurance costs.............are prosperous?Thats what I asked if you believe, since that's what you typed.


We are already seeing it, the 40 hour work week is now 30 hours a week. As it turned out, it was for no reason at all, since at the time they weren't burdened with any extra costs. They were caught lying. And, as it turned out, the hours cutting" and "wage reducing" was drastically less than pundits made it out to be, since the labor demands aren't reduced.


The CBO couldnt be even more clear...and you're still trying to say something they didn't say.

[Vteckidd]

Thats what I asked if you believe, since that's what you typed.

your double talk even confuses me. I wont even address it because now im even lost as to what point you are trying to prove. The ACA is stripping families of choice, and inflating their costs. That is not HELPING them. That was MY point.


As it turned out, it was for no reason at all, since at the time they weren't burdened with any extra costs. They were caught lying. And, as it turned out, the hours cutting" and "wage reducing" was drastically less than pundits made it out to be, since the labor demands aren't reduced.


Businesses preparing for impending costs is "lying"?

Hours being cut was drastically less than what? EVER?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/07/June%20Full%20vs%20Part%20Time%20Jobs%20historic_0 .jpg

Do you completely ignore all economic data? So funny, they are adding more part time jobs than full time. That is exactly what the businesses said would happen. Then it does, then you accuse them of lying LOLOL

God it must be so nice living in complete ignorant bliss.


Despite the mostly favorable coverage of last week’s jobs report, the fine print of the report included the revelation that the number of Americans who want to work full time but could only find part-time work went up by 322,000. The number of part-time employees is now at an all-time high of more than 8.2 million. To put that number into perspective, that’s equal to the entire population of the state of Virginia. It appears that employers were already preparing for Obamacare by working to reduce the number of full-time employees they would have had to buy health-care insurance for. Maybe the White House knew for certain what the rest of us just suspected, or the administration had a sneak peek at the June data and realized that the need to delay the Obamacare employer mandate was urgent.

With the employer mandate delayed, the White House has bought itself a year — but what is it about a one-year delay that will make the choice for business any less obvious? A one-year delay won’t make employers’ choices any better or make them anymore likely to want to take actions that will be harmful to their businesses.


Bolded the parts you need to pay attention too. They didnt lie, they did exactly what they said they were going to do. Plus, part time work is at an all time high. How is that "drastically less" than the imaginary number you are comparing it too?

[Sinfix_15]

Since they were caught lying about the penalties they were facing, when in reality they weren't, yes. We'll take what the "industry" says with a couple grains of salt.


I read what the report says, and what you're saying the report says, your interpretation of it, is just simply not in it. Lol. Bottom line.

I can post a link to the actual report if you want.

Not that it'll get read on this forum.

Quoted from the great vteckidd. You typed it better. Lol



I like how the right refuses to see prosperity as anything except a function of net liquid assets. If only reality was equally as tantalizing.

i dont give a fuck what liberals think prosperity is, as long as they pay for it themselves. i love how the left thinks thier welfare checks grow on trees. democrats have no respect for tax payers. they cater to the poor by promising hand outs and they make sure to help just enough to keep the poor in need. for the cost of the obamacare website, the government could hand every person in poverty a check for what they would make in a lifetime. democrats need poverty to survive. thier strength lies in being able to feed empty promises to an uneducated and desperate mass of people.

[Vteckidd]

Obama delayed the employer mandate BECAUSE he knows that the businesses WERENT lying.

Thanks for playing. Try again

[Vteckidd]

i dont give a fuck what liberals think prosperity is, as long as they pay for it themselves. i love how the left thinks thier welfare checks grow on trees. democrats have no respect for tax payers. they cater to the poor by promising hand outs and they make sure to help just enough to keep the poor in need. for the cost of the obamacare website, the government could hand every person in poverty a check for what they would make in a lifetime. democrats need poverty to survive. thier strength lies in being able to feed empty promises to Blank.Cd.

Fixed and bolded that for you

[Sinfix_15]

every problem in america could be fixed almost instantly if the government actually wanted to. the government manufactures and maintains crisis. without crisis and division, 500 people wouldnt be able to control hundreds of millions.

[.blank cd]

Businesses preparing for impending costs is "lying"?

Hours being cut was drastically less than what? EVER?

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013/07/June%20Full%20vs%20Part%20Time%20Jobs%20historic_0 .jpgSince I'm terribly busy, I'm just gonna address this asinine chart you posted. I traced it back to its source, zerohedge, by Tyler Durden. He claims it's household survey data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, a government agency which has, through you and your followers here, been accused of lying and being liberal before. Lying, liberal, or not, the chart doesn't support what you're claiming. At all in fact. I'll address why it doesn't support your conclusion later

Since we're looking at household survey data, I figured I'd see what the BLS had to say about their methodology. Wanna know what they said? You and Sinfix might find this interesting....


Personal visits are preferred in the first month in which the household is in the sample. In other months, the interview generally is conducted by telephone. Approximately 70 percent of the households in any given month are interviewed by telephone. A portion of the households (10 percent) is interviewed via computer-assisted telephone interviewing (CATI), from three centralized telephone centers (located in Hagerstown, MD; Jeffersonville, IN; and Tucson, AZ) by interviewers who also use a computerized questionnaire.

What you're thinking about right now, that's called confirmation bias.


Do you completely ignore all economic data?No, but you've been guilty multiple times of misrepresentation of economic data. Once just now.

[.blank cd]

What does everyone else think about telephone surveys?



He is obviously trolling. Or incredibly stupid to actually think and believe a phone survey [sic] is accurate. It's mind numbing how crazy that is to think that way.

I smell a troll post. No one is that ridiculous. Let's be adults in the political forum.



BRB going to conduct 1 sided telephone survey to back up my previous statements

[Sinfix_15]

telephone surveys are not valid for determining anything other than what people will say on a telephone survey. There's no more lethal combination on this planet than ignorance combined with confidence. Blank, you're the most confident fool i have ever met. I hope at some point in your life that you're able to look back and reflect on how people like you enabled corrupt politicians to destroy this country's future. If you're asked how much you sold your freedom for, just tell them food stamps and welfare.

[Vteckidd]

That's one chart. There are literally thousands I can post. Also I posted research done by Forbes that is backing up the claims. I m on my phone , but no one is misrepresented anything . you just like to argue against facts with hyperbole and double talk

So he's refusing to accept phone surveys now?

Blank is so confusing

[Vteckidd]

Let me get this straight, he accepts phone surveys as data. But discounts everything else.

I find data found by a telephone survey and now he's siding with us saying its not factual?

Blind ideology and blissful ignorance. Must be a small world he lives in

[.blank cd]

Not once did I say it wasn't factual.

Just said it didn't support the conclusion you were trying to reach.

Kinda how when people say anthropomorphic climate change is a hoax because its cold outside. Sure, it's a fact it's cold outside, but that doesn't support your conclusion that climate change is a hoax.

I'm just trying to figure out what kinda data is allowed in this forum. Apparently it's only the data that advances the "conservative", anti-Obama narrative

Carry on.

[Vteckidd]

You won't accept data I post so I posted the type data you would accept.

And now you say its not good enough.

This is what I like to call "trapping". I do it to you a lot and you fall for it a lot.

I knew full well that was a zero hedge article I didn't even resave it.

I just basically proved that no matter what I post you'll never accept it.

You're a hypocrite .a troll. Someone I can't debate with because you're dishonest and blind.

[BanginJimmy]

So very much fail in here.


Blank, still waitin on that analysis of the CBO report. A single sentence isnt enough.


A couple points, a few have already been addressed but I forgot to multi quote.

1. Obamacare will cost the equivalent of 2.3 million full time jobs. This means people choosing to work part time instead of full time in order to get more subsidies. This means jobs that were once held by a full time worker is now being filled by a part time worker. Blank, you mention that the work will still need to be done so this is all BS, everything I have read disagrees with you. You might start to see a kiosk instead of a person when you go to McDonalds. You will see companies invest in automation and use 3 people to do the job that was previously done by 5.

2. Prosperity may not be judged simply by liquid assets but liquid assets are required to purchase the means of survival. The Chairman of the CBO has stated, with zero ambiguity, that Obamacare is a disincentive(?) to work. We arent talking about the guy making 100k deciding to work part time instead just to get the subsidies. We are talking about the guy making 30k a year though. Maybe Mom quits her part time job making 15k a year because the lost income will equal more than 15k a year in subsidies and other handouts.

3. CBO reported that in 2024, we will still have about 30 million uninsured. So basicly, right where we are now. It will only cost us 10 trillion or so to get there.

4. The simple fact that anyone, Jay Carney in particular, would come out and say people choosing to make less money in favor or more handouts in a good thing just proves how little the squatters in the Whore house actually care about whats happening.

5. Obamacare is going to be a nightmare for the dems in November. Any GOP candidate that can stay out of trouble and on message will win easily. Assuming that 100% of GOP candidates from swing states stay on message, I know this isnt going to happen, the GOP could move in 2015 with full control of Congress (which I think is pretty much a guarantee at this point anyways) and maybe enough power in the Senate to force some very uncomfortable bills on Obama.

[.blank cd]

You won't accept data I post so I posted the type data you would accept.

And now you say its not good enough.I would accept any data you post that supports your claim, no matter how the data was collected. But you don't get to draw a conclusion and find charts that look like it supports it. That's not how this works.

I hope you don't actually think you've "trapped" me. Lol.[/QUOTE]

[.blank cd]

So very much fail in here.
Tell me about it


Blank, still waitin on that analysis of the CBO report. A single sentence isnt enough.My only point was that Browning used the CBO report AND follow-up network reporting to claim that ACA was destroying the economy. This was not something the CBO claimed according to their report, and some news networks later corrected their mistake in misreporting.


A couple points, a few have already been addressed but I forgot to multi quote.

1. Obamacare will cost the equivalent of 2.3 million full time jobs. This means people choosing to work part time instead of full time in order to get more subsidies. This means jobs that were once held by a full time worker is now being filled by a part time worker. Blank, you mention that the work will still need to be done so this is all BS, everything I have read disagrees with you.Not sure what you've read, but, even if we assume Obamacare ends up being a net expense, that doesn't directly affect the demand curve for their product, and automation is long term and affected by many other factors.


2. ProsperityIs simply a buzzword.


The Chairman of the CBO has stated, with zero ambiguity, that Obamacare is a disincentive(?) to work.which isn't necessarily a bad thing. That was also said

[Vteckidd]

Since Blank missed it


Let’s say that you are a healthy, hardworking 54-year-old single adult in San Francisco earning $45,960 per year—the income level at which federal Obamacare subsidies from your fellow taxpayers are no longer available to help you pay your monthly health-insurance premiums. As a San Francisco resident, you are permitted to choose from among 16 separate Obamacare-compliant insurance plans. Four of these are so-called “Bronze” plans, low-level policies whose average premium will cost you $453 per month, or $5,436 per year. In exchange for those premium payments, a Bronze plan will cover 60% of your medical expenses—that is, after you meet the $5,000 out-of-pocket annual deductible. For this priceless peace of mind, you can thank Obamacare—the Democratic Party’s gift to a grateful America.

Let us contrast your case with that of Joe, another 54-year-old single individual in San Francisco, who happens to be an obese alcoholic and longtime drug abuser with little ambition and no history of ever having held a full-time job for very long. Joe currently earns $15,860 per year, which is just above the income level that would have made him eligible for Medicaid. Because Joe doesn’t qualify for Medicaid, Obamacare stipulates that he must now purchase his own health insurance—thereby proving that, contrary to the shrill rhetoric of conservative naysayers, no one gets an undeserved free ride under Obamacare.

Like you, Joe can choose from among 16 separate plans that are available to San Francisco residents. But unlike you, he is eligible to receive federal government subsidies—money that other, wealthier Americans, such as you, magnanimously “contribute” toward the healthcare expenses of financially “disadvantaged” individuals. If he selects one of the four Bronze plans (whose average monthly premium is $453), Joe qualifies for $452 in average monthly subsidies—meaning that, regardless of which Bronze plan he chooses, he will pay a monthly premium of exactly $1. You read that correctly. The very same healthcare plan that would cost you $453 per month, is available to Joe for $1 per month—i.e., the cost of three oatmeal-raisin cookies at your local Subway sandwich shop. Over the course of a year, you will pay a total of $5,436 in policy premiums, while Joe, who sadly failed to qualify for free healthcare through Medicaid, will pay his own fair share of $12. This is all in the interest of social justice, you understand. And please, don’t even think about whispering that Obamacare might be some sort of “wealth redistribution” scheme, lest you expose yourself as a petulant reactionary who doesn’t give a damn about sick people.

Oh, imagine what a wonderful world it would be if we could somehow transfer this same brand of Obamacare-style fairness to realms other than health insurance. In such a utopia, for example, the $25,000 new automobile that you purchase would cost a deserving soul like Joe just $55. Your $100 nightly fee at a motel would be 45 cents for Joe. And the $25 hardcover book you purchase at Barnes & Noble would set Joe back about a nickel. What’s that, you say? These items aren’t life-and-death necessities, like medical care, and thus don’t serve as useful analogies? Good point! Let’s stick with real necessities, such as food and housing: The same load of groceries that costs you $250 would cost Joe 55 cents. Your $1,200-per-month rent or mortgage payment would be available to Joe for about $2.65 a month. And the $250,000 home you seek to buy could be Joe’s for about $552. Yes, we’re talking about a veritable paradise of fairness!

What the CBO actually said:

The new healthcare law will slow economic growth over the next decade, costing the nation about 2.5 million jobs and contributing to a $1 trillion increase in projected deficits, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said in a report released Tuesday.

The nonpartisan agency’s report found the healthcare law’s negative effects on the economy will be “substantially larger” than what it had previously anticipated.

The CBO is now estimating the law will reduce labor force compensation by 1 percent from 2017-2024, twice the reduction it previously had projected.
This will decrease the number of full-time equivalent jobs in 2021 by 2.3 million, the CBO said. It had previously estimated the decrease would be 800,000.

You can argue all you want about how its reduction in the labor participation rate, or that its not a loss in demand for labor, blah blah blah. Doesnt change the bolded parts. The ACA is not doing what we were told it was supposed to do which is LOWER COST, increase ACCESS and not affect the economy.

It was also supposed to be deficit neutral.

Businesses are smarter than the govt, they know the impending cost of providing inflated health care plans is going to hurt their bottom line, so they are slashing hours, jobs, etc to compensate. They see the costs coming in 2015, and they will adjust for that.

Facts are Facts, the labor participation rate is at an all time low, and part time jobs are at an all time high. Maybe you like the Huffington Post more ?

U.S. businesses are hiring at a robust rate. The only problem is that three out of four of the nearly 1 million hires this year are part-time and many of the jobs are low-paid.

Faltering economic growth at home and abroad and concern that President Barack Obama's signature health care law will drive up business costs are behind the wariness about taking on full-time staff, executives at staffing and payroll firms say.

Employers say part-timers offer them flexibility. If the economy picks up, they can quickly offer full-time work. If orders dry up, they know costs are under control. It also helps them to curb costs they might face under the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

All the signs are there, the ACA is hurting the economy, and the American worker. Its not even a debate.

[Vteckidd]

The Chairman of the CBO has stated, with zero ambiguity, that Obamacare is a disincentive(?) to work.

which isn't necessarily a bad thing. That was also said
Why is it not necessarily a BAD thing?

[Echonova]

Seriously... Why have I never seen this before?

So much want.











































http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vb1pdvvoVoQ


Thanks Obama.

[Sinfix_15]

im thinking about owning my own business..... maybe open a trader joes in a predominantly black neighborhood.

[Echonova]

im thinking about owning my own business..... maybe open a trader joes in a predominantly black neighborhood.I haven't seen a Trader Joe's since I left Tuscon.


















Tuscon has no black neighborhoods.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/sloth_zps9777ef3d.gif

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/1377240_10151890686881112_283428952_n_zps3dbc5fa3. jpg

[Sinfix_15]

I haven't seen a Trader Joe's since I left Tuscon.


















Tuscon has no black neighborhoods.
http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/sloth_zps9777ef3d.gif
tuscon sounds amazing. i would say tell me more.... but that pretty much covers everything.

[Vteckidd]

Tuscon is Americas Taint. (Arizona State Grad here :P)

I went to Trader Joes yesterday........they have cheap wine, sue me

[Vteckidd]

THERE IT IS FOLKS:


Breaking News: The Obama administration announces another delay in the requirement for businesses to provide health coverage, giving some employers a reprieve next year while phasing in the mandate for others.

Picking and choosing who the law applies to. Nothing new to see here. /sarcasm

[Vteckidd]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

So business states that the added HC costs directly tied to the ACA will cost jobs.............
The CBO comes out and says the ACA is going to cost jobs............
Most economists say the ACA is making businesses hesitant on hiring full time workers (people over 30hrs/week).............

Obama delays mandate...........
Obama Delays Health-Insurance Mandate for Some Firms - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304558804579375213074082656?mg=ren o64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000 1424052702304558804579375213074082656.html)


In regulations outlining the Affordable Care Act, the Treasury Department said employers with between 50 and 99 full-time workers won't have to comply with the law's requirement to provide insurance or pay a fee until 2016.

Companies with 100 workers or more could avoid penalties in 2015 if they showed they were offering coverage to at least 70% of their full-time workers, the Treasury said.

The move is a new, significant revision of the law after a series of delays and a troubled rollout. Originally, employers with the equivalent of 50 full-time workers or more had to offer coverage or pay a penalty starting at $2,000 per worker beginning in 2014.

So they have gone from 50-100 now to unlimited if you can show you provide coverage to at least 70% of the work force. How does this help Working Americans again? So now the individual is penalized but still not the business..............

Cronyism at its finest

[Sinfix_15]

THERE IT IS FOLKS:



Picking and choosing who the law applies to. Nothing new to see here. /sarcasm
silly American, in democracy the rule of law does not apply to the king of the military industrial complex. comply.........because you have no other choice.

[BanginJimmy]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

So business states that the added HC costs directly tied to the ACA will cost jobs.............
The CBO comes out and says the ACA is going to cost jobs............
Most economists say the ACA is making businesses hesitant on hiring full time workers (people over 30hrs/week).............

Obama delays mandate...........
Obama Delays Health-Insurance Mandate for Some Firms - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304558804579375213074082656?mg=ren o64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB1000 1424052702304558804579375213074082656.html)


So they have gone from 50-100 now to unlimited if you can show you provide coverage to at least 70% of the work force. How does this help Working Americans again? So now the individual is penalized but still not the business..............

Cronyism at its finest


I wouldn't be surprised to see them delay again until 2017 to help with their presidential election plans. Dems will need businesses to donate heavily to counteract the fund raising being done by the GOP right now.

[Echonova]

I like the fact that precedent has been set. If we can elect a conservative (not a Republican) as President, then obviously he can just mandate that the program be suspended indefinitely. No need to go through Congress to get it repealed... He'd have a pen and a phone.

[Vteckidd]

The individual mandate will be next.

They can't say you have to have insurance or face fines, then tell you that your employer doesn't have to offer you insurance and can't be fined despite the law saying otherwise.

[Echonova]

The individual mandate will only go if no other option is left to them by the general populace, and they are way too stupid to even pay attention anymore. By making the rules impossible to follow or predict, insurance companies will go broke and take a bail out in exchange for government control.

Remember the purpose is to collapse the system, not provide healthcare.

[BanginJimmy]

Elections have consequences. Maybe a total collapse of the healthcare system and even a partial collapse of the govt is what we need to reboot and get things back on track.


More seriously though, I think the human race is a victim of its own humanity. World population is out of control and unsustainable. Eventually we will get to a breaking point and the proverbial bubble will burst. I can see it happening in the next 20 years or so. Resources will become scarce leading to worldwide famine and conflict.

[Echonova]

Elections have consequences. Maybe a total collapse of the healthcare system and even a partial collapse of the govt is what we need to reboot and get things back on track.


More seriously though, I think the human race is a victim of its own humanity. World population is out of control and unsustainable. Eventually we will get to a breaking point and the proverbial bubble will burst. I can see it happening in the next 20 years or so. Resources will become scarce leading to worldwide famine and conflict.Eh... I do not disagree entirely, so take the following words knowing I have mucho respect.


Were you to fully utilize the significant advances in agriculture, eliminate stupid EPA regulations as say... The death-lock on the California irrigation system to farms because of some fucking minnows... And allow farmers to actually do work. Food and/or famine should be the least of our worries. The power grid and supporting infrastructure is another story... But there is only one reason why people starve today and will continue to starve in the future is Government. I just don't mean ours... Any good Socialist knows that a certain percentage must be sacrificed for the greater good. It's just not talked about at the dinner parties.

[Sinfix_15]

Eh... I do not disagree entirely, so take the following words knowing I have mucho respect.


Were you to fully utilize the significant advances in agriculture, eliminate stupid EPA regulations as say... The death-lock on the California irrigation system to farms because of some fucking minnows... And allow farmers to actually do work. Food and/or famine should be the least of our worries. The power grid and supporting infrastructure is another story... But there is only one reason why people starve today and will continue to starve in the future is Government. I just don't mean ours... Any good Socialist knows that a certain percentage must be sacrificed for the greater good. It's just not talked about at the dinner parties.

with every post i gain more and more respect for you. your wisdom never disappoints.

[BanginJimmy]

Were you to fully utilize the significant advances in agriculture, eliminate stupid EPA regulations as say... The death-lock on the California irrigation system to farms because of some fucking minnows... And allow farmers to actually do work. Food and/or famine should be the least of our worries. The power grid and supporting infrastructure is another story... But there is only one reason why people starve today and will continue to starve in the future is Government. I just don't mean ours... Any good Socialist knows that a certain percentage must be sacrificed for the greater good. It's just not talked about at the dinner parties.

Lifting the govt stranglehold would be a bandaid, but it wouldnt be a cure. It may even get the world to the point where experts think global population will begin to decline. I just dont know how much damage will be done by that point and if it will be fixable.

More advanced farming is really just geneticly engineered products which are widely known to be less healthy. The same is true of meat products.

As far as the famine and conflict go, it wont start here in the US. It will start in the poorest parts of the world that already live on the brink of famine and conflict. Just a small drop in aid to any number of areas in Africa, Asia and Indonesia could turn somewhat small conflicts into regional ones.

[Sinfix_15]

Lifting the govt stranglehold would be a bandaid, but it wouldnt be a cure. It may even get the world to the point where experts think global population will begin to decline. I just dont know how much damage will be done by that point and if it will be fixable.

More advanced farming is really just geneticly engineered products which are widely known to be less healthy. The same is true of meat products.

As far as the famine and conflict go, it wont start here in the US. It will start in the poorest parts of the world that already live on the brink of famine and conflict. Just a small drop in aid to any number of areas in Africa, Asia and Indonesia could turn somewhat small conflicts into regional ones.
the government is the cause of the problem. we throw away enough food to end starvation in this country.

any reason i should care if other countries with communist governments kill themselves? sounds like a net positive to me......

the government is also the cause of GMO food......... patented seeds.... really?

the next election may be the most important one in our history, were another democrat away from a revolution.... while im sure youre gonna dismiss that notion, the government is training for it right now as we speak

[Echonova]

GMO foods is a topic for another day. What I was referring to is the EPA caused disaster going on right now (and has been going on for years)in California, you know... "The breadbasket of America". Many farms have simply dried up because the EPA has cut off their irrigation.

It's a bit of a over-simplification to couch it in those terms, but there is no denying the ramifications.

[BanginJimmy]

GMO foods is a topic for another day. What I was referring to is the EPA caused disaster going on right now (and has been going on for years)in California, you know... "The breadbasket of America". Many farms have simply dried up because the EPA has cut off their irrigation.

It's a bit of a over-simplification to couch it in those terms, but there is no denying the ramifications.

I know what you are talking about. Its a major problem and one that is being felt in a lot more places than just Cali. Las Vegas and many other parts of Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico are in a fight right now over water also.

Water is a long term problem that is being exacerbated by population.



Back on topic though, getting into it with a few others on another forum I am on. Some of the arguments people come up with are really mind blowing. Some of them even make Sin and Blank look rational.

[Echonova]

I don't dare delve into what I really think is coming on this forum. May or may not be in my lifetime. Mostly because I suck at guessing time frames. And because no one ever wants to hear the truth. On the flip side, everyone wants to be heard, it's just most people don't have anything important or truthful to say... But the internet makes the most insignificant person important, so there's that.

[Sinfix_15]

I know what you are talking about. Its a major problem and one that is being felt in a lot more places than just Cali. Las Vegas and many other parts of Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico are in a fight right now over water also.

Water is a long term problem that is being exacerbated by population.



Back on topic though, getting into it with a few others on another forum I am on. Some of the arguments people come up with are really mind blowing. Some of them even make Sin and Blank look rational.

i always get a chuckle at you saying this, seeing as how i agree with you 95% of the time.

[Vteckidd]

Well I think what Jimmy means is , in principle I agree with you a ton Sin, but you tend to go out there like say.......Glenn Beck and go the extra 1/4 mile to say things that i think causes people to miss your original point.

Sometimes you can go too far that people of less IQ (which is a lot of people) dont comprehend what you are saying and just see you say "Black America....................." and label you a racist.

[Sinfix_15]

Well I think what Jimmy means is , in principle I agree with you a ton Sin, but you tend to go out there like say.......Glenn Beck and go the extra 1/4 mile to say things that i think causes people to miss your original point.

Sometimes you can go too far that people of less IQ (which is a lot of people) dont comprehend what you are saying and just see you say "Black America....................." and label you a racist.

wow.... am i really as bad as beck? that cuts deep.


the word racist is meaningless.

[Vteckidd]

wow.... am i really as bad as beck? that cuts deep.


the word racist is meaningless.

LOL no but , you do go over the top, you know that, its part of your personality. Im smart enoguh to know what your point is, but other people, see you type out something and all they get from it is "Black poeple are lazy" or "I hate obama"

they dont get your deeper point. All they see is black vs white from things you type. Im sure you know what i mean

[Sinfix_15]

LOL no but , you do go over the top, you know that, its part of your personality. Im smart enoguh to know what your point is, but other people, see you type out something and all they get from it is "Black poeple are lazy" or "I hate obama"

they dont get your deeper point. All they see is black vs white from things you type. Im sure you know what i mean
ya im followin ya.

its on purpose and usually a lot more well crafted than it appears. for some reason it amuses me to try and make people think something about me but at the same time leaving the benefit of the doubt. its an inside joke with myself that i usually dont care if other ppl get

ive never said one racist remark on this forum :taun:

[Sinfix_15]

Obama is sleeping one night when the ghost of George Washington appears in his room and wakes him up. Obama looks at George and asks " George, what can i do to make this country better?"

George replies " just be honest like i was and everything will work out just fine"

Obama shakes his head and says "i dont know about that, i'll have to get back with you"

George lowers his head and fades away.

The ghost of Thomas Jefferson appears and Obama asks "Thomas, what can i do to make this country better?"

Thomas replies "just love the constitution like i did and everything will be just fine"

Obama shakes his head and says "i dont know about that Thomas, i'll have to get back with you"

Thomas lowers his head and fades away.

The ghost of Abraham Lincoln appears and Obama asks "Abe, what can i do to make this country better?"

Abe replies " go see a play"

[David88vert]

The individual mandate will be next.

They can't say you have to have insurance or face fines, then tell you that your employer doesn't have to offer you insurance and can't be fined despite the law saying otherwise.


The individual mandate will only go if no other option is left to them by the general populace, and they are way too stupid to even pay attention anymore. By making the rules impossible to follow or predict, insurance companies will go broke and take a bail out in exchange for government control.

Check the news - its in the House to delay the individual mandate now - H.R. 4015. This bill would delay the individual mandate by 5 years. I doubt that it will pass this time, but they are attempting to delay it.

On another note, since December, individuals can now qualify for a "hardship exemption" -- meaning they would not have to pay a penalty for not buying insurance -- if they "experienced another hardship in obtaining health insurance." There is no definition as to what "another hardship" means, and anyone seeking this exemption should "submit documentation if possible."
That is pretty open and could apply to everyone. So, what will be interesting is that - if only the older and sick Americans sign up, and the younger and healthy Americans claim "hardship", how will the insurance companies keep the rates down? The whole purpose of the mandates were to have the those that didn't need healthcare pay for those that do - this new exemption opens a huge loophole that could have massive economic consequences for Obamacare.

Remember how Obama said that 46 million Americans were uninsured and that the ACA was needed for them. He talked about how they were asking for this bill to be passed:
"We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children" - Obama, June 2009
"Nearly 46 million Americans don't have health insurance coverage today" - Obama, August 2009

Of course, we all know that he revised that in Sept of 2010 - "We are the only democracy—the only advanced democracy on Earth—the only wealthy nation—that allows such hardship for millions of its people. There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage." - due to his initial counting of illegal aliens in his initial number.

So, the CBO estimated that 7 million Americans needed to sign up and pay up by Mar 31, 2014, on the federal exchange to make their numbers. So far, with only days left to sign up, we are at 4.2 million signed up, and the administration is not saying how many actually have paid for their selected plan - you know, actually have enrolled.
Administration: 4.2 million people signed up for Obamacare plans through February - Kyle Cheney - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/obamacare-affordable-care-act-104540.html)

Selecting a plan is the equivalent of test driving a car - it means nothing until you sign the contract to pay for it. Obamacare's numbers are simply test drives, and are not saying how many have "bought the plan" (enrollment). And of those that actually did enroll, it appears that only 80-85% of them have actually paid for it so far.

The real question is - since Obama said that 30 million needed insurance, why aren't they signing up in droves?

[BanginJimmy]

Remember how Obama said that 46 million Americans were uninsured and that the ACA was needed for them. He talked about how they were asking for this bill to be passed:
"We are not a nation that accepts nearly 46 million uninsured men, women and children" - Obama, June 2009
"Nearly 46 million Americans don't have health insurance coverage today" - Obama, August 2009

Of course, we all know that he revised that in Sept of 2010 - "We are the only democracy—the only advanced democracy on Earth—the only wealthy nation—that allows such hardship for millions of its people. There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage." - due to his initial counting of illegal aliens in his initial number.

So, the CBO estimated that 7 million Americans needed to sign up and pay up by Mar 31, 2014, on the federal exchange to make their numbers. So far, with only days left to sign up, we are at 4.2 million signed up, and the administration is not saying how many actually have paid for their selected plan - you know, actually have enrolled.
Administration: 4.2 million people signed up for Obamacare plans through February - Kyle Cheney - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/obamacare-affordable-care-act-104540.html)

Selecting a plan is the equivalent of test driving a car - it means nothing until you sign the contract to pay for it. Obamacare's numbers are simply test drives, and are not saying how many have "bought the plan" (enrollment). And of those that actually did enroll, it appears that only 80-85% of them have actually paid for it so far.

The real question is - since Obama said that 30 million needed insurance, why aren't they signing up in droves?


I saw an article that said only about 10% of the enrollees were previously uninsured.
New health insurance marketplaces signing up few uninsured Americans, two surveys find - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/health-insurance-marketplaces-signing-up-few-uninsured-americans-surveys-say/2014/03/06/cdae3152-a54d-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html)


Tell me again how this law is going to reduce the cost of health insurance? I havent seen it yet.

Oh, and according to my new Union Contract, my employer assumes my health care plan will qualify as a Cadillac plan when that goes into effect in 2018 so they are going to reduce coverages in order to fall below that threshold. Just more proof that the left is more about keeping people down than it is about bringing people up.


Recognizing the impending implementation of the healthcare legislation in 2018, it is the intent of both the Company and Union that none of the benefits provided in connection with the aforementioned health insurance benefits (e.g. medical, health care spending accounts) will cause the application of an excise or High Cost Coverage Excise Tax (Cadillac Plan Tax) as a result of providing such benefits with respect to The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (the “PPACA”). Accordingly, in order to avoid such a tax and in keeping with the intent of the parties, the Company and Union agree to meet after the 2018 rates for the medical plans have been finalized and if the actual rates for any plan are shown to be above the thresholds for triggering the 2018 tax, then the parties will meet in an effort to modify such plan(s) to avoid the excise tax

[Vteckidd]

The real question is - since Obama said that 30 million needed insurance, why aren't they signing up in droves?

For lack of a better term, he has COMPLETELY shit the bed on the ACA.

Theres no incentive for them to sign up. He made the law so that they cant charge for "preexisiting conditions" thinking "Hey, just cause you get cancer doesnt mean you should be taken advantage of by a HC company".

But what really happened was "Ill just buy insurance when i need it, since there is no penalty"

He also completely fucked up with:

People who are poor (the people he advocates for buying insurance) have 2 options right now, buy a plan, or , pay a fine that is less than 12 months of the plans premiums. So, whats the point? Until the fine outpaces the premium, theres no incentive to buy.

Poor people get subsidies for healthcare, but again, theres no incentive. They can just buy it when they need it. OR...............stay on their parents until they are 26.

EVERYTHING we have predicted is coming true, watch the Democrats RUN FOR THE HILLS as this gets worse and worse

[AFSil80]

^ They're already trying to distance themselves from him.

Also, if you want to solve the food and farmer issues, start off by burying Monsanto. But good luck with that...Obummer selected one of their lobbyists to be a part of the FDA.

Organic Consumers Association: Millions Against Monsanto (http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/)

[Vteckidd]

PASS THE BILL THEY SAID
ITLL LOWER PREMIUMS THEY SAID


Health insurance premiums have risen more after Obamacare than the average premium increases over the eight years before it became law, according to the private health exchange eHealthInsurance.

The individual market for health insurance has seen premiums rise by 39 percent since February 2013, eHealth reports. Without a subsidy, the average individual premium is now $274 a month. Families have been hit even harder with an average increase of 56 percent over the same period — average premiums are now $663 per family, over $426 last year.

Between 2005 and 2013, average premiums for individual plans increased 37 percent and average family premiums were upped 31 percent. So they have risen faster under Obamacare than in the previous eight years.




An important caveat is that eHealth’s prices don’t include subsidies, so the prices for anyone earning between 100 and 400 percent of the federal poverty level will be lower. The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) has repeatedly claimed patients will pay as little as $18 per month, without noting the taxpayer cost.

Premiums are being hiked across the board for several reasons, but the biggest contributor is the Obama administration’s highly touted “essential health benefits,” services that insurers on and off exchanges must provide.

Some benefits, such as emergency and laboratory services, are uncontroversial. But others, like maternity, newborn and pediatric services, are causing headaches for huge swaths of the population that don’t need them. Anyone past childbearing age, single men, the infertile, even nuns — their premiums are rising as well, because their plans must, by law, provide more services.

But premiums aren’t the only key to health care costs — deductibles and out-of-pocket costs like co-pays are also rising. When it comes to employer health plans alone, four out of five U.S. companies have increased deductibles or are considering doing so.
The latest survey from consulting firm McKinsey found that half of those who haven’t purchased health insurance yet this year cited their inability to pay the premium.

[ISAtlanta300]

Haven't seen BlankCD in a while. Wonder how he's doing these days.....

[BanginJimmy]

Haven't seen BlankCD in a while. Wonder how he's doing these days.....

Why would he come back to this? He has absolutely nothing to back up his love affair with Obama other than race and/or party.




Today it was announced that about 5 mil people have signed up for private plans through the exchanges. They still wont say how many have actually paid a premium though, which I expect to be less than 70%.

The real death blow is going to come out in the demographics though. You are going to see the 'young indestructibles' make up less than 20% of the market where the admin claims they need at least 40% to sustain the program.

[AFSil80]

All I know is that I can't get through 5 songs on Pandora without hearing some stupid fucking ad for Obamacare.

They realize that the young Americans that put them in office has learned the error of their ways...and the Administration is trying to sucker them back in.

Worried Obama begs donors, 'Do you still have my back?' | WashingtonExaminer.com (http://washingtonexaminer.com/worried-obama-begs-donors-do-you-still-have-my-back/article/2545593)

Except for the fact that the only people he's approaching are those with money...which typically isn't the youth of America since he's already bankrupted our generation.

[Sinfix_15]

All I know is that I can't get through 5 songs on Pandora without hearing some stupid fucking ad for Obamacare.

They realize that the young Americans that put them in office has learned the error of their ways...and the Administration is trying to sucker them back in.

Worried Obama begs donors, 'Do you still have my back?' | WashingtonExaminer.com (http://washingtonexaminer.com/worried-obama-begs-donors-do-you-still-have-my-back/article/2545593)

Except for the fact that the only people he's approaching are those with money...which typically isn't the youth of America since he's already bankrupted our generation.
Theyre literally begging people to sign up and pay for this garbage. You see commercials for it everywhere.... radio, public tv, sporting events, its also pretty obvious that talk show hosts and news anchors have been instructed to push it.......

But dont you dare say that theres a liberal bias in media.

[Vteckidd]

Lebron james, Alonzo Mourning, Magic Johnson all running ads encouraging people to sign up.

YEAH, BECAUSE MILLIONAIRES IN SPORTS AND BUSINESS REALLY REPRESENT THAT YOUNG KID WITH HERPES WHO NEEDS HEALTHCARE.

What an epic disconnect

[AFSil80]

Just remember...most transparent administration in US History.

[Sinfix_15]

Lebron james, Alonzo Mourning, Magic Johnson all running ads encouraging people to sign up.

YEAH, BECAUSE MILLIONAIRES IN SPORTS AND BUSINESS REALLY REPRESENT THAT YOUNG KID WITH HERPES WHO NEEDS HEALTHCARE.

What an epic disconnect
Propaganda and advertisings works.........

Democrats are now fighting for the right to indoctrinate our children and start poisoning minds early.

Once democrats gain the ability to campaign to 1st graders, the world we know is lost.

[Sinfix_15]

What are you gonna say when your 3rd grader comes home with homework to find out why racist white people wanted to stop Obama from giving ppl health insurance?

[AFSil80]

You'll only have to worry about that in big cities.

Thankfully, some county school systems still believe in education, not indoctrination.

[Sinfix_15]

You'll only have to worry about that in big cities.

Thankfully, some county school systems still believe in education, not indoctrination.
If that were the case i wouldnt care. With common core the government controls EVERY classroom...... and the books are littered with radical left wing propaganda.

[Browning151]

Home school.

[AFSil80]

If that were the case i wouldnt care. With common core the government controls EVERY classroom...... and the books are littered with radical left wing propaganda.


Home school.

^ That, and to address Sinfix, regardless of the book content, I've had teachers in high school say they're required to teach content but made it clear that it's the govt that requires it, not their own desire/curriculum standards. And then they proceed to blow through it in one day and don't ever bring it up again.

[.blank cd]

Why would he come back to this? He has absolutely nothing to back up his love affair with Obama other than race and/or party.

My name is not Sinfix, I don't have a love affair with Obama. Sorry.

[.blank cd]

Lebron james, Alonzo Mourning, Magic Johnson all running ads encouraging people to sign up.

YEAH, BECAUSE MILLIONAIRES IN SPORTS AND BUSINESS REALLY REPRESENT THAT YOUNG KID WITH HERPES WHO NEEDS HEALTHCARE.

What an epic disconnect
Who would you rather inform the public about the ACA? The president himself is a millionaire businessman.

[.blank cd]

Haven't seen BlankCD in a while. Wonder how he's doing these days.....
I've been just sitting back watching and laughing. What's the point trying to tell people who say stuff like this...


Propaganda and advertisings works.........

Democrats are now fighting for the right to indoctrinate our children and start poisoning minds early.

Once democrats gain the ability to campaign to 1st graders, the world we know is lost.


All I know is that I can't get through 5 songs on Pandora without hearing some stupid fucking ad for Obamacare.

They realize that the young Americans that put them in office has learned the error of their ways...and the Administration is trying to sucker them back in.

Worried Obama begs donors, 'Do you still have my back?' | WashingtonExaminer.com (http://washingtonexaminer.com/worried-obama-begs-donors-do-you-still-have-my-back/article/2545593)

Except for the fact that the only people he's approaching are those with money...which typically isn't the youth of America since he's already bankrupted our generation.


You'll only have to worry about that in big cities.

Thankfully, some county school systems still believe in education, not indoctrination.


What are you gonna say when your 3rd grader comes home with homework to find out why racist white people wanted to stop Obama from giving ppl health insurance?


^ That, and to address Sinfix, regardless of the book content, I've had teachers in high school say they're required to teach content but made it clear that it's the govt that requires it, not their own desire/curriculum standards. And then they proceed to blow through it in one day and don't ever bring it up again.
...is ignorant. They'll just get further and further entrenched in their beliefs.

[.blank cd]

Home school.

I wish more parents would take on home schooling their kids. Stop wasting the schools time with self-important parents. They end up failing miserably, and that's how we end up with dumbass kids who end up believing the school system is loaded with left wing propaganda.

If you want to believe the earth is 6000 years old and the left sole philosophy is indoctrinating young kids, then that's fine, but leave your children out of it. The earth doesn't need any more morons like Sinfix and AFSik80

[Vteckidd]

Who would you rather inform the public about the ACA? The president himself is a millionaire businessman.

I think its pretty sad you have to have people pitch your ACA because its not doing what you promised it would do.

He needs people to pitch it, because its not doing what he claimed

[Vteckidd]

I wish more parents would take on home schooling their kids. Stop wasting the schools time with self-important parents. They end up failing miserably, and that's how we end up with dumbass kids who end up believing the school system is loaded with left wing propaganda.

If you want to believe the earth is 6000 years old and the left sole philosophy is indoctrinating young kids, then that's fine, but leave your children out of it. The earth doesn't need any more morons like Sinfix and AFSik80

Im not sure how to solve the public education we have going on, but , studies are pretty clear that if you have the RIGHT accountability and the ability to fire teachers who dont do well (IE DO AWAY WITH UNIONS), kids benefit.

The #1 problem with education is lobbyists and the teachers union

[Sinfix_15]

I wish more parents would take on home schooling their kids. Stop wasting the schools time withself-important parents. They end up failing miserably, and that's how we end up with dumbass kids who end up believing the school system is loaded with left wing propaganda.

If you want to believe the earth is 6000 years old and the left sole philosophy is indoctrinating young kids, then that's fine, but leave your children out of it. The earth doesn't need any more morons like Sinfix and AFSik80
Yeah.... the world needs less self sustained, college educated, tax paying, law abiding professionals like me.

We need more people sitting on thier ass living in welfare villages dropping out of school to pursue rap careers who think mcdonalds wont pay them 40k a year because of racism and somebody need to pay for Sheniquas 9 kids because the baby daddies aint around.

I can exist without liberals.

Liberals need people like me to feed off of.

Its hilarious for you of all people to accuse someone of being entrenched in thier beliefs....

[Sinfix_15]

Common core is loaded with left wing propaganda. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.

Indoctrinating kids is a top priority of the democratic party. Why? Results...... it produces more blankcds

Blank, your uniformity with the far left would make any dictator smile. I dont know what you get paid, but you missed your calling. You should have Jay Carney's job.

[Sinfix_15]

Im not sure how to solve the public education we have going on, but , studies are pretty clear that if you have the RIGHT accountability and the ability to fire teachers who dont do well (IE DO AWAY WITH UNIONS), kids benefit.

The #1 problem with education is lobbyists and the teachers union
No worries...... Obama is on the job. He'll educate the kids on the important things...... like white privilege and how overrated freedom is.

[BanginJimmy]

My name is not Sinfix, I don't have a love affair with Obama. Sorry.

You are sinfix though, just the other side of the same coin.

Yes, you do. You believe he can do no wrong and everything he does is perfect. Well, either that, or you are just trolling the forum. I could easily believe both.


Who would you rather inform the public about the ACA? The president himself is a millionaire businessman.

What business has Obama ever run? He is a typical Ivy League lawyer/politician. He has never had a real job in his life.



I wish more parents would take on home schooling their kids. Stop wasting the schools time with self-important parents. They end up failing miserably, and that's how we end up with dumbass kids who end up believing the school system is loaded with left wing propaganda.

If you want to believe the earth is 6000 years old and the left sole philosophy is indoctrinating young kids, then that's fine, but leave your children out of it. The earth doesn't need any more morons like Sinfix and AFSik80

Well known fact that home schooled and private schooled children do better at every measurable than govt schooled children.


Not a great article, but the first decent one I found in my 3 minutes of searching.
Homeschooling vs. Public School - FamilyEducation.com (http://school.familyeducation.com/home-schooling/educational-testing/41081.html)

[AFSil80]

I wish more parents would take on home schooling their kids. Stop wasting the schools time with self-important parents. They end up failing miserably, and that's how we end up with dumbass kids who end up believing the school system is loaded with left wing propaganda.

If you want to believe the earth is 6000 years old and the left sole philosophy is indoctrinating young kids, then that's fine, but leave your children out of it. The earth doesn't need any more morons like Sinfix and AFSik80

I'm not gonna lie. I'm glad that we are still allowed to think differently, b/c it would be quite boring otherwise.

Granted, we can't all be responsible individuals and take it upon ourselves to improve our lives instead of letting the govt do it for us. Someone has to be the shepherd, someone has to be the sheep. Keep on bleating that liberal BS kid, I'll handle myself just fine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/AFSil80/Jefferson_zps0888593d.jpg

[.blank cd]

You are sinfix though, just the other side of the same coin.Thats funny.


Yes, you do. You believe he can do no wrong and everything he does is perfect.I said this?

Politics has absolutely nothing to do with Obama being perfect. It's about understanding the "why"

[.blank cd]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm glad that we are still allowed to think differently, b/c it would be quite boring otherwise.It would be even less boring if the people who didn't want to think differently (those same people) weren't doing everything in their power to regress society.


Granted, we can't all be responsible individuals and take it upon ourselves to improve our lives instead of letting the govt do it for us. Someone has to be the shepherd, someone has to be the sheep. Keep on bleating that liberal BS kid, I'll handle myself just fine.Looks like we found our sheep.

[.blank cd]

"We know nothing about science or policy or economics or the education system, but this is how it should be. We're 'thinking differently', you're just liberal sheep"

LOL. Tell it again, humans.

[BanginJimmy]

Politics has absolutely nothing to do with Obama being perfect. It's about understanding the "why"

Oh please explain.

Why are all of his tax policies about bringing to top down and not the bottom up?

Why do all of his economic policies hurt the economy, and none help it?

Why have almost all of his campaign promises become lies?



The reasons are actually pretty simple, but you will blame it on the GOP instead of looking at it realisticly.

[.blank cd]

Why are all of his tax policies about bringing to top down and not the bottom up?Your opinion. The facts say otherwise. Those pesky "liberal" things the willfully ignorant like to ignore.


Why do all of his economic policies hurt the economy, and none help it?Last time I, and any other economist has checked, time and time again, we've pretty much avoided a global economic system collapse. So, compared to that, I'd say we're doing alright. There's food at our table and clothes on our backs. Try again.


Why have almost all of his campaign promises become lies?This is why I'm tired of posting in this section. I'm in the Obama-hating spin zone, and everyone is working backwards from there. Lol. It's like Obamas everyone's most hated football team. How about instead try to figure out how the game is played?




The reasons are actually pretty simple, but you will blame it on the GOP instead of looking at it realisticly.
The reasons are pretty complex to tell you the truth. I suppose if they were as simple as you all think, I could just call up An Ivy League school and have them fax me an economics doctorate, cause getting it the traditional way is everything but simple. Lol.

And if the shoe fits.

[.blank cd]

Or maybe it's just the government hating spin zone. Who knows. We'll figure it out in a few years when the middle name of the guy in the hot seat isn't 'Hussein'. Lol.

[BanginJimmy]

Your opinion. The facts say otherwise. Those pesky "liberal" things the willfully ignorant like to ignore.

What facts say otherwise? I have yet to hear a tax proposal from him that doesnt include "fair share" or "millionaires and billionaires". Every new budget plan seems to start with new "revenue" from the rich, yet very little about how to expand the middle class. Hell, even his talks about expanding the middle class seem to center on higher taxes for the rich.


Last time I, and any other economist has checked, time and time again, we've pretty much avoided a global economic system collapse. So, compared to that, I'd say we're doing alright. There's food at our table and clothes on our backs. Try again.

So prove to me how his economic policies did this, not the simple passage of time. We certainly havent seen a recovery of any note even though we have been through 2 or 3 summers of recovery. Wages are stagnant, inflation is increasing in some sectors, especially food.


This is why I'm tired of posting in this section. I'm in the Obama-hating spin zone, and everyone is working backwards from there. Lol. It's like Obamas everyone's most hated football team. How about instead try to figure out how the game is played?

And what you want is a pro Obama spin zone?


The rules of the game are simple. Smear and ridicule your opponent while at the same time try to make as few moves as you can that can offer fodder for your opponent. Whether you are helped or hurt by a politician's proposal is nothing more than an unintended consequence. The intended purpose is to either make you think their proposal can help you or to hurt their opponent. The actual effects are meaningless.





The reasons are pretty complex to tell you the truth. I suppose if they were as simple as you all think, I could just call up An Ivy League school and have them fax me an economics doctorate, cause getting it the traditional way is everything but simple. Lol.

And if the shoe fits.

The reasons are actually very simple.

We have a highly uneducated and uninterested electorate that mainly align with a political party and will vote for that party no matter what. Most people dont even know the names of the people they are voting for. This results in negative campaigns that center on smear tactics and allows candidates to actually say very little. Now we wonder why politicians are so pitifully unsuited to the task when they were elected BECAUSE of their negativity.

As for Obama, his economic policies are a failure because of his advisers. Ivy League PhD's with little actual experience.

How else could an average Joe ON THIS SITE tell you that Obamacare was going to be a failure, and WHY it was going to be a failure when all these ivy Leaguers were saying how successful and loved it was going to be?
Why hasnt Gitmo been closed yet? Oh, for the same reason it was put there in the first place, no better place for it.
Why are we less respected around the world now than we were 5 years ago?

[AFSil80]

It would be even less boring if the people who didn't want to think differently (those same people) weren't doing everything in their power to regress society.

I'm glad we can agree about this in regards to Obama.

[Browning151]

Well then....

15-20 Percent Aren't Paying Obamacare Premiums, Insurer Says (http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/15-20-percent-aren-t-paying-obamacare-premiums-insurer-says-20140402)


One of the biggest players in Obamacare's exchanges says 15 to 20 percent of its new customers aren't paying their first premium—which means they're not actually covered.

The latest data come from the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association, whose members—known collectively as "Blues" plans—are participating in the exchanges in almost every state. Roughly 80 to 85 percent of people who selected a Blues plan through the exchanges went on to pay their first month's premium, a BCBSA spokeswoman said Wednesday.

The new statistics, particularly from such a large carrier, help define how many people are actually getting covered under the Affordable Care Act.

The Blues' experience is in line with anecdotal estimates from other insurance executives, who indicated earlier in the enrollment process that they received payments from about 80 percent of people who selected their plans.

The Blues' latest estimate includes policies that took effect Feb. 1 or earlier, the spokeswoman said.

Some health care analysts have suggested that the payment rate could improve later in the enrollment window, as plans had more time to track down consumers who hadn't paid.

Wherever the final number ends up, it will be the real measure of how many people are actually covered through the Affordable Care Act's exchanges. The Obama administration has been releasing the number of people who selected a plan, but says it doesn't have accurate data on how many have actually paid. And consumers don't have coverage they can use until they make that first payment.

If the nationwide payment rate, across all carriers, remains at 80 to 85 percent, the 7.1 million sign-ups Obama announced Tuesday would translate into somewhere between 5.7 and 6 million people who are actually covered.

So the number could improve, but right now it's looking basically like a wash when you factor in the number of cancellations.

[.blank cd]

Well then....

15-20 Percent Aren't Paying Obamacare Premiums, Insurer Says (http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/15-20-percent-aren-t-paying-obamacare-premiums-insurer-says-20140402)Conversely, 85% have paid their first month premium. Guess it all depends on how you want your news to sound.


cancellations.

When is the right going to retire this talking point? Half of the people who got cancellation letters were automatically enrolled in compliant policies.

Guess that makes it more than a wash, huh? Lol

[BanginJimmy]

Conversely, 85% have paid their first month premium. Guess it all depends on how you want your news to sound.



When is the right going to retire this talking point? Half of the people who got cancellation letters were automatically enrolled in compliant policies.

Guess that makes it more than a wash, huh? Lol


First months premium, let's see what that number is now and in 6 months. How many paid their January premium but not the February or March bill? Are they still counted as signed up?


Really though, until the full numbers are released along with a full breakdown of the numbers, the reported number means nothing.

[Vteckidd]

But premiums arent rising:

Just a fun little story for you guys, not blaming ACA but, I have to wonder..........

June 9th I tore my ACL playing basketball. I have private insurance (meaning I pay for it myself) through KP. I had the Classic 1500 Plan.

Deductible $1500
Premium $204/month (Healthy 33 year old male non smoker)
20% COins
$40 Copay Dr Visit
$70 Specialist
$250 emergency
Max Out of Pocket $5000

Surgery was scheduled for Aug 13th. On friday I got a letter from my provider that simply said here is your new ID cards. I noticed that my deductible was now $2500.................

Long story short, back in DEC they had the option of opting into your current plan, or, being enrolled in a ACA "appropriate plan". I faxed in my acceptance despite their phone lines being down for DAYS (KP even acknowledged they were severely overrun). Guess what? They dont have any record of my fax coming through, so as of Aug 1st my plan went to this:

Deductible $2500
Premium $295/month
30% COins
$35 Copay
$400 Emergency
Max Out of Pocket $6350

So, 10 days before im scheduled to have surgery they have completely wiped out any of my benefits ($500 MRI would have gone toward my deductible), raised my deductible $1000 and my out of pocket $1350.

AND, my monthly premium went up 30%.

KP reasoning? Increased costs due to the ACA.

Luckily I can afford it, but its pretty shitty the Insurance company is jacking my rates in the middle of a calendar year 10 days before surgery.

[bu villain]

That sucks. Only thing I don't understand is how did you fax them if their phone lines were down?

[Browning151]

Holy shit, 2 posts in the politics section.


I got the same letter last year about being able to stay on my current plan or go to an ACA plan, if I'm forced on to an ACA plan at the end of this year I will most likely be dropping my ins.

[Vteckidd]

That sucks. Only thing I don't understand is how did you fax them if their phone lines were down?

I faxed multiple times. Finally it went through, but for days all we got was a busy signal, even KP admitted this

[bu villain]

I faxed multiple times. Finally it went through, but for days all we got was a busy signal, even KP admitted this

Well at least your persistence paid off...:(

[bu villain]

Holy shit, 2 posts in the politics section.

I'm only here until Sinflix realizes political discussion is going on, then I'm out.

[Vteckidd]

Well at least your persistence paid off...:(

Well, it did an it didnt. It went through, now 8 months later they are saying it didnt.

Regardless, they changed my plan from $1500 to $2500 and raised my premium 30%.

Just more evidence that the ACA is driving costs up, not down

[Echonova]

So some of you may know, some of you may not. I broke my back at work and got "suspended without pay" from my old job... So they they could get me to quit without paying unemployment and dispute my workman's comp claim all in the same breath.

Whateve's. I'll be fighting that battle for the next 7 years I'm sure thanks to our swift legal system. We truly need a "loser pays" system IMO...

But Obamacare is working. I went from a company with a $10,000 family deductible to have to drop all my existing doctors to get on my new company's plan with a $9,500 deductible... The savings are unbelievable.

I'm thinking of taking that extra money I'm saving and getting a new Jaguar F-Type convertible. What do you think I should do?

[Echonova]

FYI: In case Blank Cd is reading... I was "suspended without pay" because the doctor said I could no longer do the daily activities "required" by my work... Since they could no longer "legally" make me work and I refused to lie on a government document, they denied the income I so richly deserved... Even more so then them damn "undocumented Americans" I would venture to say.

Do I have a case?

[Echonova]

The upside is I have an office job with a fat increase in income...



The downside is I'm not an office kinda guy.

[Echonova]

I'm making multiple posts because I dare not try and leave this topic without being sent back the the Home Page..


FIX THAT SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ISAtlanta300]

Where is BlankCD these days I wonder....... lol

[bu villain]

Well, it did an it didnt. It went through, now 8 months later they are saying it didnt.

Yeah I was kidding. You went through all that effort and they still lost it.


So some of you may know, some of you may not. I broke my back at work and got "suspended without pay" from my old job... So they they could get me to quit without paying unemployment and dispute my workman's comp claim all in the same breath.

Holy shit! Sounds like there may be some lawyers in your future.

[Echonova]

Holy shit! Sounds like there may be some lawyers in your future.There are lawyers in my life now. But the dark side is using every legal maneuver/tactic to drag it out. Once I win (I'm don't see how I could lose) they will appeal and drag it out longer. And the appeal the appeal...I may end up getting paid before the zombie apocalypse wipes out mankind. But that's just a best case scenario.

[Browning151]

I know no one ever posts here anymore but I just have to ask....

Hey Blank, since you're the self professed economic genius around here, how do you feel about Obamacare (you know that healthcare thing you so vehemently supported) being called "a basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter"?

[Vteckidd]

I just got ANOTHER notice that my premium is going from

$435 950 Deductible /950 Max
to

$477 2000 Deductible / 5000 Max

So recapping, in the last 12 months, Ive gone from $209 900 / 900 to 477 2000/5000

But I suppose thats not enough evidence to prove premiums are rising in his mind

[David88vert]

Mine has gone to $1500/month for basic medical coverage for 4. It's higher than most mortgages. We haven't had any claims and have no health issues. It's insane (but required by law) to give the government $18K/yr to take care of other people who do not put into the system.

[BanginJimmy]

Mine went up 12% this year to over 200 a month (employer pays 87%}. My plan will most likely be called a Cadillac plan come 2018 also so I expect to see my benefits reduced when it does take affect.

[bu villain]

For 2015, my premiums will go up by $17/mo (not sure about employer's contribution) and my deductable will go up by 200/400 (Indidual/Family). Pretty much everything else stayed the same. That would be an increase of 21% for my premium and 6% for my deductible. I'm on a high deductable plan.