Obamacare and your premiums.

[Browning151]

So how many of you have received your renewal notices and seen the increases due to the "Affordable" Care Act?

I got mine in the mail a few days ago with two options through my current provider:

A) Keep my current plan for one more year with a typical approx. 12% annual premium increase after which I will be forced onto an ACA compliant plan at my next renewal or

B) Renew with an ACA compliant plan now with a 100% premium increase which also includes a bunch of coverage I don't need or want.

From what little shopping around I have had time to do lately the premiums look pretty similar with other companies for my coverage as well. So much for that "you can keep your current plan" and "affordable" nonsense. I'm honestly considering just dropping coverage altogether for now and taking the hit on the fine since I have probably used my health insurance less than 5 times in the past 10 years, all of which I could have easily paid for out of pocket.

[Sammich]

BCBS kept our premiums within a few cents thus far

[Sinfix_15]

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s268/Virtutis/Obamacare_zpsda4b9da9.jpg (http://s154.photobucket.com/user/Virtutis/media/Obamacare_zpsda4b9da9.jpg.html)

[Sinfix_15]

Just got the letter in the mail stating that my blue cross coverage offered by my employer will no longer be available, stating "the ongoing implementation of the affordable healthcare act will drive the cost of medical care up significantly, which will impact both you and your company".
The cost of keeping BCBS would be "more than the company was willing to accept".

I will copy this letter and remove personal information if anyone doubts what i'm posting.




Thanx Obama.

[Browning151]

Just got the letter in the mail stating that my blue cross coverage offered by my employer will no longer be available, stating "the ongoing implementation of the affordable healthcare act will drive the cost of medical care up significantly, which will impact both you and your company".
The cost of keeping BCBS would be "more than the company was willing to accept".

I will copy this letter and remove personal information if anyone doubts what i'm posting.




Thanx Obama.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk

I'm sure someone will be along to explain that you're not losing coverage because of Obamacare, you're losing it because your greedy capitalist employer cares more about profits than it's employees or some other such nonsense.

[C230K]

the politics section is just not the same without blankcd, seems like everyone here is on the same side and no one is playing devil's advocate.

[Sinfix_15]

the politics section is just not the same without blankcd, seems like everyone here is on the same side and no one is playing devil's advocate.

If blank is half as smart as blank thinks blank is...... he is hanging his head in shame and avoiding this section. The reality of Obama's failures is becoming too obvious to ignore, even for those who desperately want to ignore it.

I've been hearing former Obama supporters say "Romney was right" all week.

[BanginJimmy]

My premiums will go from $44.29 to $47.74.

My employer pays 87% of my heath plan and I will likely end up with even higher premiums because I have a Cadillac plan.

[Echonova]

http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/qq112/mhumphr/ObamaCare.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/mhumphr/media/ObamaCare.jpg.html)

[.blank cd]

the politics section is just not the same without blankcd, seems like everyone here is on the same side and no one is playing devil's advocate.Let me get my pants on...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoV0NeHNklk

I'm sure someone will be along to explain that you're not losing coverage because of Obamacare, you're losing it because your greedy capitalist employer cares more about profits than it's employees or some other such nonsense.

Capitalism? No. Not so sure much capitalism is going on here.

[.blank cd]

I've been hearing former Obama supporters say "Romney was right" all week.
RMoney was right. We should have called the ACA "Romneycare" instead of Obamacare. That would've made it so much better.

[Vteckidd]

The Weakest Link - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 10/21/13 - Video Clip | Comedy Central (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-21-2013/the-weakest-link?xrs=synd_facebook_102213_tds_39)

[Browning151]

LOL

[Sinfix_15]

As funny as this whole government website crash is..... be thankful it's not something important like our healthcare.......


oh wait........


well, at least you can sit back and take comfort in the fact that the government knows what's better for you better than you do.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/06/29/Interactivity/Images/2012-06-28T161435Z_01_WAS902_RTRIDSP_3_USA-HEALTHCARE-ROMNEY.jpg

[BanginJimmy]

The Weakest Link - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 10/21/13 - Video Clip | Comedy Central (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-october-21-2013/the-weakest-link?xrs=synd_facebook_102213_tds_39)

best post in this thread.

[.blank cd]

Charles Krauthammer had an excellent talk with Stewart tonight about the nature of modern conservative/liberal dialogue.

It would benefit EVERYONE participating in this forum to watch it.

With your ears open.

[Vteckidd]

I really like Krauthammer even though i have disagreed with him before.

Link?

[.blank cd]

Probably just went up on thedailyshow.com. It was tonight's episode.

[Sinfix_15]

Charles Krauthammer had an excellent talk with Stewart tonight about the nature of modern conservative/liberal dialogue.

It would benefit EVERYONE participating in this forum to watch it.

With your ears open.

You're really the only person with communication issues here.

This is how it usually goes....

Blank- 2+3=5

Opposition- 4+1=5 too.

Blank- typical fox news neo-conservative right wing hive mind. I'm right, it's not up for debate because south redneck anarchy ideology astrophysics post colonial muscular distribution. I'm out unless you need to be educated more.

Opposition- your stance makes no sense.

Blank- stance? What stance?? I didn't take a stance.

[Echonova]

I really like Krauthammer even though i have disagreed with him before.

Link?Charles Krauthammer - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 10/23/13 - Video Clip | Comedy Central (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-october-23-2013/charles-krauthammer)

[Elbow]

No change.

[Browning151]

Obamacare: More than 2 million people getting booted from existing health insurance plans - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57609737/obamacare-more-than-2-million-people-getting-booted-from-existing-health-insurance-plans/)


(CBS News) CBS News has learned more than two million Americans have been told they cannot renew their current insurance policies -- more than triple the number of people said to be buying insurance under the new Affordable Care Act, commonly known as Obamacare.

There have been estimates about hundreds of thousands of people losing coverage, CBS News' Jan Crawford reported on "CBS This Morning." CBS News has reached out to insurance companies across the country to determine some of the real numbers -- and this is just the tip of the iceberg, Crawford said. The people who are opening the letters are shocked to learn they can't keep their insurance policies despite President Obama's assurances to the contrary.

The White House is on the defensive trying to explain it, after Mr. Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your doctor or health care plan, you can keep it."

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said, "What the president said and what everybody said all along is that there are going to be changes brought about by the Affordable Care Act to create minimum standards of coverage."

It's an unexpected reality of Obamacare being told through anecdotes in local papers and on social media. But the hard numbers reveal the evidence is far more than anecdotal. CBS News has confirmed with insurance companies across the country that more than two million people are getting notices they no longer can keep their existing plans. In California, there are 279,000; in Michigan, 140,000; Florida, 300,000; and in New Jersey, 800,000. And those numbers are certain to go even higher. Some companies who tell CBS News they've sent letters won't say how many.

Industry experts like Larry Levitt, of the Kaiser Family Foundation, say the insurance companies have no choice. "What we're seeing now is reality coming into play," he said.

Obamacare forces them to drop many of their plans that don't meet the law's 10 minimum standards, including maternity care, emergency visits, mental health treatment and even pediatric dental care.

That means consumers have to sign on to new plans even if they don't want or need the more generous coverage. Industry experts say about half the people getting the letters will pay more -- and half will pay less, thanks to taxpayer subsidies. Levitt said, "The winners outnumber the losers here, but because of all the website problems, it's hard to find out who the winners are because they don't even know it themselves."

And for the people who've gotten the letters, the broken website is a real problem, Crawford added on "CTM." They don't know what to do. They don't know if they get subsidies. And then there are others getting the letters who have very good insurance but are being told they can't keep it. Industry experts CBS News talked to say for everyone, the best bet is to just call their insurance companies to get the information.

So much for that whole keeping your plan if you like it thing.

[Vteckidd]

Its now being reported by "left" media outlets as well.

Its something that we have all been saying for years, since day 1 that the american voting population never understood. When you force private companies to pay more in costs they find ways to minimize those costs. They cut jobs, benefits, salaries, etc.


THIS IS ALL BY DESIGN. Obama and the Democrats NEED the private individuals to go to the exchange because they need their money to subsidize the poor. Again we dont focus on raising the poor out of poverty, we focus on taking from others to make the poor more comfortable.

This is what they want, they want the private insurance out of business so they can move to single payer, which isnt feasible and will never work in America

[.blank cd]

When a single payer system eventually comes to the US, my guess will be around 2030-40, it will be the "conservatives" idea all along.

Thank you, based conservatives.

[Vteckidd]

And it would still not be feasible or able to work.

I also wasnt speaking in political parties. A bad law is a bad law no matter who came up with it. And youre wrong, the single payer system that GOP brainstormed back in 92-96 was not the same model that is being used now.

Romneycare also wasnt the same, and it has bankrupted MA and they are moving towards single payer. also, bad idea

[Vteckidd]

CBS: Over 2 Million Americans Have Already Received Insurance Cancellations Due To ObamaCare - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q3wf1XptDhE)

[.blank cd]

And it would still not be feasible or able to work.It will work, and staunch conservatives will say it was their idea the whole time. That's how they work. At least in the media. IRL, they typically work together to find a solution. Those are the kinda of things they don't tell you on Breitbart and Schiff blogs.


Romneycare also wasnt the same, and it has bankrupted MAFalse.

‘RomneyCare’ Facts and Falsehoods (http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/romneycare-facts-and-falsehoods/)

[Vteckidd]

It will work, and staunch conservatives will say it was their idea the whole time. That's how they work. At least in the media. IRL, they typically work together to find a solution. Those are the kinda of things they don't tell you on Breitbart and Schiff blogs.

your opinion, but it wont work. you cant collect enough in taxes to pay for the care, its already been shown. If we ever get to single payer, you will see the economy implode, doctors retire, nurses and practioners pay cut, it would be disaster for the economy. Kind of like what we are seeing right now with Obamacare. Its hurting the economy, and shrinking hours for "poor"people, and terminating coverage. Everything it was deisgned to fix, its made worse.



False.

‘RomneyCare’ Facts and Falsehoods (http://www.factcheck.org/2011/03/romneycare-facts-and-falsehoods/)

Nice try

Single Payer System - Massachusetts & Vermont Consider Move Towards New HC Plan - Kelly File - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj0iHPYJDSk)

Romney care has failed to do anything it promised
Romneycare foretells Obamacare failures | The Detroit News (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131029/OPINION01/310290010/Romneycare-foretells-Obamacare-failure)


“Coverage for the uninsured in the state exchange was more expensive than estimated,” says Josh Archambault, director of Health Care Policy at Massachusetts’ Pioneer Institute, of 20 percent cost over-runs that necessitated tax hikes. To control costs, he adds, Massachusetts also doubled down on exchange regulation, reducing customers’ choices.

What’s more, Romneycare inflated state health premiums that were already among the nation’s highest. Which is to say, while Romneycare has failed to reduce costs, its residents were already paying for a heavily regulated system. Not so for the rest of America, which is now witnessing sticker shock as Washington imposes Massachusetts-sized costs on everyone. Michigan premiums for an average family will grow 12 percent, according to exchange data compiled by the Heritage Foundation. Indiana’s premiums rise 26 percent; Florida’s 25 percent.

Massachusetts’ health entitlement spending ballooned to 40 percent of its budget (and you thought Michigan’s 25 percent was out of control). But didn’t all this spending lead to universal health coverage in Massachusetts? No. The state already had an unusually low 6 percent of its population uninsured. Romneycare has cut that number in half, mostly with hundreds of millions in government subsides. But coverage is still not universal.

Meanwhile, access to health care has declined.

If Romneycare predicted Obamacare’s high costs, it warns of worse: growing physician shortages as regulations drive caregivers from the market. A 2011 survey “by the Massachusetts Medical Society reveals that fewer than half of the state’s primary care practices are accepting new patients, down from 70 percent in 2007,” reports Anne-Marie Turner, president of the Galen Institute. “The average wait time for a routine checkup with an internist is 48 days. It takes 41 days to see an OB/GYN, up from 34” in one year.

This doctor shortage, driven by poor government reimbursement for health services, also has increased hospital emergency room visits, contradicting Obama’s — and Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder’s — claim that Medicaid expansion will reduce uncompensated care. Just 53 percent of internists and 62 percent of family physicians, for example, will see Massachusetts Medicaid patients.

“Insurance rates have continued to increase with more mandates like fertility coverage,” says Paul Bachman, director of research for Boston’s Beacon Hill Institute. “So now the governor has approved price controls that dictate that health costs can’t increase more than inflation.” That means more doctor shortages.

From The Detroit News: Romneycare foretells Obamacare failures | The Detroit News (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131029/OPINION01/310290010#ixzz2j8kjihyu)



Also you like to look at small snapshots and I dont know if its not in your wheelhouse, but you look forward. Costs rising, subsidies growing, medicare spending up 2 billion. Its not a good system and has only increased costs

[.blank cd]

your opinion, but it wont work. you cant collect enough in taxes to pay for the care, its already been shown. If we ever get to single payer, you will see the economy implode, doctors retire, nurses and practioners pay cut, it would be disaster for the economy.Wow. The apocalypse will follow, fire, brimstone, the second coming of Christ, the final battle between good and evil, Cubs win World Series type of devastation, right?

LOL



Nice tryYour claim that Romneycare has bankrupt MA was very false.

[Vteckidd]

hey, I was right about "You can keep your doctor " was a lie.

Im right that the new economy is now part time workers

Im right that the economy was not going to be back to normal after 4 years.

ive been right about a lot, and if you ahve any sense of business you know that with single payer , there is no private companies anymore.

Where do you think all the health insurance jobs go? GONE
Where do you think doctors will go when the Govt tells them what they get paid? - GONE

Go look at any country close to USA population, healthcare is worse than here.

Just sit back, im confident im right.

[Vteckidd]

When Liberals dont understand that 2+2=4, its pointless.

You cant tax enough to pay for the single payer system, that is fact. we dont have to debate anything else, because itll always come back to paying for the single payer. Unless you want to go tell your poor people that they need to pony up another 10-15% in taxes to pay for govt healthcare.

Single Payer wont work, the country would collapse before that ever happened.

[.blank cd]

LMAO

"I once got so many guaranteed customers purchasing my product, my costs went up and I had to retire."

Said no one ever.

[.blank cd]

ive been right about a lot, and if you ahve any sense of business you know that with single payer , there is no private companies anymore.

Where do you think all the health insurance jobs go?Who cares? They'll assimilate.

Where do you think doctors will go when the Govt tells them what they get paid?.

I'll imagine they'll still keep doctoring. I couldn't imagine going to medical school for half my life, then saying "Fuck it. I'm done being a doctor."

But hey, I'm sure that's the reason why all the doctors in Europe and Canada quit. Not a single doctor left.

Right?

Oh wait.

[.blank cd]

Poor NHS Doctors. How are they possibly going to put food on the table with a meager $150,000 a year. Might have to play a really small violin here. LOL

"Salaried GPs who are part of a CCG earn between £54,319 to £81,969 dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience."

Pay for doctors - NHS Careers (http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/)

[Vteckidd]

ok youre right, care wont change, everything will be perfect, doctors will voluntarily take paycuts to treat more patients (YEAH, give me MORE WORK FOR LESS PAY!), and you can ignore the fact that it costs money to cover more people, and you cannot tax enough people to pay for single payer.

With the rollout of the ACA, i cant wait to see single payer. Itll all be roses and rainbow farts

[Vteckidd]

Poor NHS Doctors. How are they possibly going to put food on the table with a meager $150,000 a year. Might have to play a really small violin here. LOL

"Salaried GPs who are part of a CCG earn between £54,319 to £81,969 dependent on, among other factors, length of service and experience."

Pay for doctors - NHS Careers (http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/doctors/pay-for-doctors/)

spoken like a guy who has never had a 6 figure job, or the education to obtain one.

When it costs you $100k to go to medical school, and your job dictates you make $300,000, 150k is not enough. But liberal like you dont understand that. You live in a world where cost and pay dont exist. Everything grows on trees that the rich provide to the poor

[David88vert]

Survey: More Docs Plan to Retire Early (http://www.medpagetoday.com/PracticeManagement/PracticeManagement/38013)

[David88vert]

spoken like a guy who has never had a 6 figure job, or the education to obtain one.



A lot of people don't realize that 6 figures is not really a lot nowadays.

[Browning151]

"But sir, your plan will wipe out an entire industry to help less than 15% of the population".......

Who cares? They'll assimilate.

[.blank cd]

spoken like a guy who has never had a 6 figure job, or the education to obtain one.

When it costs you $100k to go to medical school, and your job dictates you make $300,000, 150k is not enough. But liberal like you dont understand that. You live in a world where cost and pay dont exist. Everything grows on trees that the rich provide to the poorSpoken like someone who knows absolutely nothing about medical school, it's job market, or economics. But it's not surprising


Survey: More Docs Plan to Retire Early (http://www.medpagetoday.com/PracticeManagement/PracticeManagement/38013)
And your point?

[Vteckidd]

LOL i give up, this place has become not a place of discussion on honest debates anymore, its bullshit strawmen and ignoring facts.

I cant argue with someone who cant even fathom the simplest of economic policies.

*unsubscribed

[Vteckidd]

"But sir, your plan will wipe out an entire industry to help less than 15% of the population".......

FUCK EM, THEY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY ANYWAYS.

[.blank cd]

Shortage of doctors indeed.

https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/november2012/313632/medicalschoolenrollment.html

[Vteckidd]

A lot of people don't realize that 6 figures is not really a lot nowadays.

pay is irrelevant. When you make $20000 a year its easy to say $150k is easy living. thats a warped way to view the world. and a jealous one.

You have to look at what it TAKES TO EARN that kind of money. Doctors dont just go to the local community college and major in art history and get 200-500k jobs. I know doctors, i work with doctors, my GF runs a major hospital admin . It takes unbelievable education and $$$$ to become a doctor which is why they get compensated well.

[Vteckidd]

Shortage of doctors indeed.

https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/reporter/november2012/313632/medicalschoolenrollment.html

404 DOCTORS NOT FOUND

LOL what a stupid post. I enrolled in engineering school at GA TECH, GUESS IM AN ENGINEER GUYS!

Medical students dont = doctors

[.blank cd]

This just in. People who enroll in medical school aren't actually interested in working in the medical field at all

[David88vert]

And your point?

My point is irrelevant - the doctors that currently treat ill patients have a point that is relevant. If you read and comprehended the article, their point should be abundantly clear to you.

[Vteckidd]

This just in. People who enroll in medical school aren't actually interested in working in the medical field at all

This just in, everyone who enrolls in medical school graduate and become doctors.

Theres a shortage of doctors, its the FIRST FUCKING LINE IN THE LINK YOU POSTED.

There will be shortages going forward. Its going to happen, and ill laugh when im right

[.blank cd]

Amidst ambiguous medical career futures, and certain global economic collapse (as you so aptly uncovered for us, thank you), medical school enrollment continues to climb, reinforcing the fact that all doctors in the foreseeable future will retire.

LMAO

[.blank cd]

My point is irrelevant - the doctors that currently treat ill patients have a point that is relevant. If you read and comprehended the article, their point should be abundantly clear to you.

Doctors are retiring, and are being replaced by more doctors.

So what's your point?

Is the cognitive dissonance painful?

[.blank cd]

Why is it that your rhetoric doesn't stand up to the facts?

[David88vert]

Doctors are retiring, and are being replaced by more doctors.

So what's your point?

Is the cognitive dissonance painful?

My article:
A study shows that six in 10 physicians (62%) believe that it is likely many of their colleagues will retire earlier than planned - in the next 1 to 3 years (very soon). 55% of physicians believe the hospital-doctor relationship will suffer as admitting privileges are put at risk to comply with hospital standards of meaningful use.

Your article:
Applications to enter into initial studies in the medical field increased by 3.1% - which not all of them are studying to be doctors.

Do you realize that your article was not even related to the actual topic?

I have no idea if cognitive dissonance is painful - I'm not the one suffering from it.

[.blank cd]

I'm trying to believe you guys, I really am, but what you're saying just doesn't seem to coincide with reality.

[Vteckidd]

I'm trying to believe you guys, I really am, but what you're saying just doesn't seem to coincide with reality.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465

[.blank cd]

So what we're saying is medical doctors are the only profession where the more customers you have, the less employees you need?

[Vteckidd]

So what we're saying is medical doctors are the only profession where the more customers you have, the less employees you need?

this 1 statement should end this conversation.

Do you buy "electronics" insurance before you go visit best buy?

The whole model of insurance would answer your question, but its clear you dont know how the system works.

Doctors make X
Hospitals charge Y
People buy insurance to be able to afford to pay the Doctors X

More patients= more risk.

Let me dumb it down, do you think having MORE teenage drivers would LOWER your rates or RAISE them. HINT: Teenage drivers cause more accidents, the income you bring in, in the form of premiums, doesnt cover $100,000 in damages a person can cause. Why do you think your rates get lower the older you get?

the opposite is true with health insurance.

So yes, doctors with more patients, would have to charge more because your $200.month premium =more care which costs more money. More risk=more cost=more money. you would need more doctors if it was beneficial for them to become doctors. But with single payer, you would cut their salaries because , why else would you have single payer? Single Payer would tell you what a Heart Surgeon should make regardless of what the private market says they are (Mainly because there is no private market)

its not a $1:1$ ratio like you think it is.

[.blank cd]

That's all I needed to hear. Thank you.

[Sinfix_15]

My disabled mother's doctor told her that he no longer accepts medicaid, that she has to pay cash.


No worries..... i'll just tell her that medical school enrollment is up.

[Vteckidd]

The other thing is the news coming out now that 4 times as many people are enrolling in the free medicaid than the individual insurance in the exchange. Basically, the individuals that go to the exchanges to buy healthcare are supposed to fund the medicaid people.

But it doesnt work when 4 times as many people want free healthcare vs paid.

Its Social Security all over again. Here comes the exploding deficits and out of control premiums costs going up.

Still waiting to see Blank post proof his premiums decreased

[.blank cd]

My disabled mother's doctor told her that he no longer accepts medicaid, that she has to pay cash.


No worries..... i'll just tell her that medical school enrollment is up.
I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.


Still waiting to see Blank post proof his premiums decreased

It still won't prove anything other than the straw man that everyone's premiums increased is bullshit. That's something I and the rest of educated already know.

[David88vert]

I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.

Wow. You claim that you understand economics and business, and then make that statement?

That doctor is not denying her healthcare - he is just stating the way that he must be compensated for his service. There was nothing said that she was unable to pay either - you assumed that all on your own. It is the same for any privately produced product or service in our American society. She can either agree to those terms or go to another doctor who provides those same services.

[Vteckidd]

I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.

so in your world Doctors dont set their prices, they work for free. I dont think you understand how medicare works. Doesnt surprise me you seem highly uneducated on basic healthcare system principles.




It still won't prove anything other than the straw man that everyone's premiums increased is bullshit. That's something I and the rest of educated already know.

Cant prove what isnt true i suppose.

Also, never said EVERYONE, said as a whole premiums are rising, thats a true statement. Id love to see your premiums that you claim decreased even though you have the same coverage , deductible, and benefits. Put your money where your mouth is :)

[Vteckidd]

Medicare is a subsidy the govt pays for seniors, Obamacare is going to cut medicare payments to doctors to try and control costs. So what does the doctor do? He refuses medicare patients because if a private insurer pays you $200 for a procedure, and medicare says "you only need to make $50" the doctor will choose private insurers.

Its the doctors choice to choose what customers aka patients he wants to see. If their insurance doesnt pay his prices, they dont get care and they can go to someone "cheaper".

Welcome to ECON 101


Of the $716 billion in cuts, $415 billion come in the form of “updates to fee-for-service payment rates,” a euphemism for reducing Medicare’s payments to doctors and hospitals. But what happens when you reduce payments to doctors? Doctors stop being willing to see Medicare patients. And if you can’t actually get a doctor’s appointment, what does it really matter what your insurance plan covers on paper?

[Elbow]

LOL @ thinking doctors would be perfectly fine with turning their careers into a more "charity" type gig.

[.blank cd]

It's amazing what this forum thinks they know about healthcare. LOL

[Vteckidd]

Game Set Match

[David88vert]

It's amazing what this forum thinks they know about healthcare. LOL

It's amazing what you think that you know about healthcare, politics, economics, psychology, etc.... LOL

[.blank cd]

Game Set Match
Hardly. LOL.

It's amazing what you think that you know about healthcare, politics, economics, psychology, etc.... LOL
Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO

[Elbow]

Hardly. LOL.

Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO

I'm not saying Obamacare is causing a mass doctor retiring, but I know most doctors aren't going to be happy doing work for less. Would you?

What makes you a healthcare expert anyway?

[David88vert]

Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO

I never made any claim that it would cause a global economic meltdown, or anything even vaguely related. Get your facts straight, and don't try to make it sound like I said something that I never even alluded to.

The article stated that a study shows that doctors think that a large number of them will retire in the next 1-3 years. Do you think that you know better than the doctors themselves? Where is the source for your statements? Perhaps you are sitting on it?

[Vteckidd]

hes referring to what i said that single payer would cause the economy to collapse, which I believe to be true. I stated why. Mass job loss, huge raise in taxes or massive deficit spending would tank the economy.

The amount in taxes they would have to charge to pay for healthcare would drive hundreds of thousands out of work, and run up huge deficits. Its really simple math.

[.blank cd]

I'm not saying Obamacare is causing a mass doctor retiring, but I know most doctors aren't going to be happy doing work for less. Would you?

What makes you a healthcare expert anyway?Far from a healthcare expert actually. I do understand it's infinitely more complex than our buddy David and Apocalypsekidd are leading you to believe.

[BanginJimmy]

Yeah. Obamacare is causing a global economic meltdown and mass doctor retiring. LMAO

I havent seen anything about mass retirement, but that is a possibility, so is the fact that doctors may simply decide not to see anyone that receives insurance through Obamacare.
New York doctors flee Obamacare: (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/29/new-york-doctors-flee-obamacare-i-plan-retire/)

How about the general shortage of doctors in the US?
Obamacare Will Expose Doctor Shortage In The U.S., Put More Pressure On Exhausted Physicians (VIDEO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/obamacare-doctor-shortage_n_4123630.html)

[David88vert]

Far from a healthcare expert actually. I do understand it's infinitely more complex than our buddy David and Apocalypsekidd are leading you to believe.

Where have I said that the healthcare system is simple? There are concepts that are simple, and others that are complex. Stop trying to make it seem that I am saying something that I am not. These intentionally misleading statements show that you are only trying to be deceptive, rather than address the article's core message.

[Echonova]

Who here has logged on to Healthcare.gov and are happy with the results? No one? Shocking.


My company switched to an "Obamacare" complaint insurance plan within a week after it was signed. I've had $10,000/annual family deductible for over three years. Glad to see everyone else finally catching up.

[.blank cd]

I havent seen anything about mass retirement, but that is a possibility, so is the fact that doctors may simply decide not to see anyone that receives insurance through Obamacare.
New York doctors flee Obamacare: (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/29/new-york-doctors-flee-obamacare-i-plan-retire/)

How about the general shortage of doctors in the US?
Obamacare Will Expose Doctor Shortage In The U.S., Put More Pressure On Exhausted Physicians (VIDEO) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/18/obamacare-doctor-shortage_n_4123630.html)
David suggested doctors were retiring, at what he made seem was an alarming rate.

Ok. That's fine

But we're seeing an increase in med school applicants at the same time

[Sinfix_15]

I think it's morally reprehensible to deny someone healthcare based on their inability to pay. Especially since there isn't any law on the books anywhere requiring him to. I think it's even more reprehensible to do it under the guise of Obamacare. I'm sorry your grandmothers doctor is playing political games with her health.



It still won't prove anything other than the straw man that everyone's premiums increased is bullshit. That's something I and the rest of educated already know.

She wasn't denied care. She just has to pay cash now. Everything was fine before obama "helped".

You want to live in world where the government can force doctors into slavery to accommodate for those who can't pay?

[Sinfix_15]

LOL @ thinking doctors would be perfectly fine with turning their careers into a more "charity" type gig.

Amen. Common sense prevails.

[David88vert]

David suggested doctors were retiring, at what he made seem was an alarming rate.

Ok. That's fine

But we're seeing an increase in med school applicants at the same time

I didn't suggest it, a study was done and DOCTORS said that 62% knew colleagues that plan to retire early in 1-3 years. The study also tied that to the ACA.

To claim that it was a suggestion from me, rather than recognize it as a study by a leading research institute, shows that you are attempting to be deceptive by implying that this is made up by me. You recently defended a telephone survey of less than 1000 random people asking them if they used drugs as a legitimate method to polling and getting accurate results. Here, I bring up a study done by a well respected research institute, where they got a much larger cross section of a specific and well informed field, but you do not want to accept its results with the same conviction.

I stated before, your increase in medical student applications is 3.1% (about 10,000 more applicants). That does not mean that these new applicants will be approved, will complete their education, or even become doctors. They aren't all studying to become doctors, just applying to medical schools. That's a huge difference.
Just to pay out your scenario - let's be fictionally generous and say that a quarter of these new applicant (about 2,500) become doctors. Here's something to think about - they aren't all studying to be US doctors. Many come from other countries to study here, and then return back to their own country. I know quite a few Indians that have come to Emory, complete their doctorates, and head home to run their medical practices there.

Bottom line: The provisions within Obamacare are expected to increase the number of primary care doctors by perhaps 3,000 in the coming decade. Communities around the country need about 45,000.
Obamacare is making the system have a greater shortage of doctors.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/07/29/health/policy/29doctors-graphic/29doctors-graphic-articleInline.jpg

You don't have to believe me though, read about it yourself.
U.S. Faces Shortage of Doctors - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304506904575180331528424238)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/health/policy/too-few-doctors-in-many-us-communities.html

"The proportion of medical students choosing to enter primary care has declined in the past 15 years, as average earnings for primary care doctors and specialists, like orthopedic surgeons and radiologists, have diverged."

[Vteckidd]

get your silly fox news facts out of here. Medical school applicants are up, all is well

[.blank cd]

You want to live in world where the government can force doctors into slavery to accommodate for those who can't pay?

Didn't suggest that either.

[Sinfix_15]

Didn't suggest that either.

So what happens if doctors decide they want nothing to do with Obamacare and start opening cash only hospitals?

[Vteckidd]

So what happens if doctors decide they want nothing to do with Obamacare and start opening cash only hospitals?

LOL he doesnt believe in private industry

[Browning151]

So what happens if doctors decide they want nothing to do with Obamacare and start opening cash only hospitals?

That will simply be deemed "black market" and made illegal.

[.blank cd]

So what happens if doctors decide they want nothing to do with Obamacare and start opening cash only hospitals?
At that point it will be cheaper to be on the NHS, so they'll simply be priced out, unless they're catering to wealthier patients who want more personal care or something. I'm sure a market would open up for something like that.


LOL he doesnt believe in private industry
That's a lie. I totally support a free market solution for police, fire, and military.

Seriously though. I support private industry for things that are controlled by typical market forces. Healthcare isn't one of them though.

[Sinfix_15]

At that point it will be cheaper to be on the NHS, so they'll simply be priced out, unless they're catering to wealthier patients who want more personal care or something. I'm sure a market would open up for something like that.

In the world Obama is creating, "wealthier patients" will be anyone with a job.



That's a lie. I totally support a free market solution for police, fire, and military.

Here we go again with this nonsense...... the "all or nothing" attitude towards social programs.

Anything we share makes sense. I get use out of the fire department, police and military......

section 8 housing, food stamps and welfare is no benefit to me.

[.blank cd]

In the world Obama is creating, "wealthier patients" will be anyone with a job.




Here we go again with this nonsense...... the "all or nothing" attitude towards social programs.

Anything we share makes sense. I get use out of the fire department, police and military......Do you get no use out of healthcare? If such a system came up where healthcare was treated like the fire department or the police or military, it was cheaper, and the same care you get now, you wouldn't take advantage of it, simply because of your ideological aversion to "big government"?

Heh


section 8 housing, food stamps and welfare is no benefit to me.This is a broken-window fallacy. You do get a benefit from it.

[Sinfix_15]

Do you get no use out of healthcare? If such a system came up where healthcare was treated like the fire department or the police or military, it was cheaper, and the same care you get now, you wouldn't take advantage of it, simply because of your ideological aversion to "big government"?

Heh

This is a broken-window fallacy. You do get a benefit from it.

I get no benefit from you having health insurance. I can afford my own healthcare...... one way or another, if i didnt have insurance, i can afford to pay cash. So no, no benefit to me that you have health insurance, none at all. ACA does nothing other than reduce my quality of care and increase my cost because i'm paying for someone else to have healthcare. My current insurance is worthless......... my deductible is so high that i'm going to be paying cash anyways.

Section 8 is also no benefit to me....... i'd love to see you explain to me how it is.

[.blank cd]

I get no benefit from you having health insurance. I can afford my own healthcare...... one way or another, if i didnt have insurance, i can afford to pay cash. So no, no benefit to me that you have health insurance, none at all. ACA does nothing other than reduce my quality of care and increase my cost because i'm paying for someone else to have healthcare. My current insurance is worthless......... my deductible is so high that i'm going to be paying cash anyways.

Section 8 is also no benefit to me....... i'd love to see you explain to me how it is.

Why do I need to explain something that's easy enough for you to earn on your own.

Yes. You get a benefit from everyone having healthcare, you get a benefit from public assistance. It's not really debatable.

[Sinfix_15]

Why do I need to explain something that's easy enough for you to earn on your own.

Yes. You get a benefit from everyone having healthcare, you get a benefit from public assistance. It's not really debatable.

I dont need or want public assistance. How does this benefit me?

[.blank cd]

Off topic

[Elbow]

What is public assistance?

[.blank cd]

Assistance for the public, probably.

[Elbow]

Assistance for the public, probably.

Good answer.

[.blank cd]

Couldn't think of a simpler answer

[Sinfix_15]

Assistance for the public, probably.

This Robin Hood government is not what i would call public assistance. Theyre taking money from one person and giving it to another. I call it stealing.... or extortion maybe.

It's not assisting anyone to make it so theyre incapable of taking care of themselves and dependent on government.



Tell me how section 8 specifically benefits me. Give me your justification of this program.

[.blank cd]

This Robin Hood government is not what i would call public assistance. Theyre taking money from one person and giving it to another. I call it stealing.... or extortion maybe.You can call it whatever you want to call it. But the truth is, the people who use it have also paid into it all their lives. So I guess you could also say they're taking it from themselves?

That is, unless, you just want to look at it through your own narrow worldview.


It's not assisting anyone to make it so theyre incapable of taking care of themselves and dependent on government.But that's not what it is, so....




Tell me how section 8 specifically benefits me. Give me your justification of this program.

I can't tell you my justification for it because it's not my program and I didn't design it, but I can give you the insight of the economists and the people who set it up, and you can compare it with your own thoughts of the system if you'd like.

[Sinfix_15]

You can call it whatever you want to call it. But the truth is, the people who use it have also paid into it all their lives. So I guess you could also say they're taking it from themselves?

That is, unless, you just want to look at it through your own narrow worldview.

But that's not what it is, so....





I can't tell you my justification for it because it's not my program and I didn't design it, but I can give you the insight of the economists and the people who set it up, and you can compare it with your own thoughts of the system if you'd like.

Those people who paid into it their entire lives should not have been forced to pay into their entire lives and should have that money they paid into it to invest how they please, the same as me.

It's not the government's job to supply people with equal things, only equal opportunity.

[Sinfix_15]

I really is admirable how much liberals want to give in charity to their fellow man...........................




now if we could ever get them to start doing it with their own money.....

[David88vert]

Internal notes show paltry initial enrollment in Obamacare – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/01/only-6-enrolled-in-obamacare-on-first-day-internal-notes-show/?hpt=hp_t2)

[David88vert]

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/11/obama-tells-americans-losing-coverage-im-sorry/

Obama apologizes for health coverage cancellations due to Obamacare - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/politics/obama-obamacare-apology/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1157/d6k4.jpg

[Elbow]

LOL

That's it? "Sorry"?

[ISAtlanta300]

LOL

That's it? "Sorry"?

That's it. LOL

THANKS OBAMA !!!!!!

[.blank cd]

"Insurance companies appear to be [cancelling policies] for a variety of reasons; some are pulling all their plans from certain states where they have fewer subscribers in order to save money."

And...

4 Debunking Obamacare myths: Both sides get it wrong - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/05/politics/obamacare-debunking-myths/index.html?c=&page=1)

[Sinfix_15]

"Insurance companies appear to be [cancelling policies] for a variety of reasons; some are pulling all their plans from certain states where they have fewer subscribers in order to save money."

And...

4 Debunking Obamacare myths: Both sides get it wrong - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/05/politics/obamacare-debunking-myths/index.html?c=&page=1)

CNN can be trusted to offer an unbiased look at Obamacare.



Just for curiosity, any of those companies who cancelled policies for a variety of reasons, are any of the reasons because the Affordable Care Act made healthcare more affordable and that they simply did not like paying more affordable prices?

[.blank cd]

CNN can be trusted to offer an unbiased look at Obamacare

This was exactly the comment I was looking for.

[Sinfix_15]

This was exactly the comment I was looking for.

What? i said that CNN can be trusted........ why would anyone question that?

[Sinfix_15]

Did anyone cite more affordable prices as their reason for canceling insurance?

[Echonova]

LOL

That's it? "Sorry"?Obama never said he was "Sorry" for Obamacare. He said he was sorry that people were too stupid to understand the fact he lies, and they chose to believe him.

Listen close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjwudZqo-Bg

[.blank cd]

Obama never said he was "Sorry" for Obamacare. He said he was sorry that people were too stupid

Listen close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjwudZqo-Bg
That's exactly what he said.

[Sinfix_15]

That's exactly what he said.

I wonder how the election would have gone if he was honest. I know he still would have carried the black vote..... but it could have made a difference.

[Elbow]

Have any of your insurance policies changes from Obamacare? Anyone in here?

[Sinfix_15]

Have any of your insurance policies changes from Obamacare? Anyone in here?

Yep. My company dropped my existing policy citing that the cost was too high. With new policy my deductible went from $1500 to $5000 in addition to a 8% price increase and my company also reducing the amount they pay from 85% to 80%

[Sinfix_15]

Have any of your insurance policies changes from Obamacare? Anyone in here?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYUIzkrIcAEhFVx.jpg:large

[Echonova]

Have any of your insurance policies changes from Obamacare? Anyone in here?As I've said before (although it might have been a different thread), my insurance changed within days of Obamacare being signed into law. Deductible went up to $10,000, so effectively my family has been without insurance for 3 years. I worked out a deal with my doctor to just pay cash and not worry about even trying to file claims. Unless there is a catastrophic illness/injury it's not even worth it.

[BanginJimmy]

I am covered under a union contract for this year, but we renegotiate next March. I am predicting that next year, when the employer mandate kicks in, I will see my rates rise in excess of 15% by a combination of higher costs to my employer and my employer taking on a smaller percentage of the bill. They currently pay 87%.

[Vteckidd]

Obama Tells Americans Losing Coverage: ‘I’m Sorry’ - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/11/obama-tells-americans-losing-coverage-im-sorry/)

Obama apologizes for health coverage cancellations due to Obamacare - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/07/politics/obama-obamacare-apology/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1157/d6k4.jpg

Im going to have to see more proof that Obama actually said he was sorry. Your sources are questionable.

/Black.cd response

To me its not more a debate, he lied, the internal memos show exactly what smart people like me and David, and Jimmy, and Sin have been saying on this site for 3 years. I wish I could go pull up the old HC debate threads just to pat myself on the back.

EVERYONE with any business experience said this would happen, the whole "if you like your plan you can keep it" was such bullshit because they knew that the goal was to get people into the exchange. They were forcing insurance companies to cover things they werent covering before, and mandated minimum coverage which raises costs, and the companies were going to pass that along.

Its all happeneing, exactly as we predicted. Blank and others still drinking the kool aid

[David88vert]

To me its not more a debate, he lied, the internal memos show exactly what smart people like me and David, and Jimmy, and Sin have been saying on this site for 3 years. I wish I could go pull up the old HC debate threads just to pat myself on the back.


http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/news-politics/266751-obamacares-cost.html#post38574052
http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/news-politics/263269-supporters-obamacare-4.html
http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/news-politics/284439-t-take-1-billion-charge-healthcare-reform.html
http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/news-politics/283932-those-you-who-said-healthcare-bill-isnt-going-affect-us-4.html#post38930335

You're welcome

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/YodaonObamacare2_zpsa2040eca.png

[Vteckidd]

Clinton to Obama: Keep ObamaCare promise, let Americans 'keep what they got' | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/11/12/clinton-to-obama-keep-obamacare-promise-let-americans-keep-what-got/)

[Browning151]

Obamacare Will Be Repealed Well In Advance Of The 2014 Elections - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenhayward/2013/11/11/obamacare-will-be-repealed-well-in-advance-of-the-2014-elections/)

Don't know that I necessarily agree with him that it will be repealed that quickly, but he does make some good points about the political fallout.

[Vteckidd]

I dont see it getting repealed at all. They will make changes, but not repeal it. The democrats wont give up that much power. It would be deadly to Hillary in 2016. Their only hope is to convince people that the "evil" insurance companies are standing in the way of total govt utopia and healthcare. Which, was kinda the goal all along.

The Democrats will spin this that is the insurance companies that were offering "bad quality" insurance, and thats why they are losing their policies. The only hope is to turn to an entity that has your best interests at heart, the govt.

/FAIL

[Sinfix_15]

I dont see it getting repealed at all. They will make changes, but not repeal it. The democrats wont give up that much power. It would be deadly to Hillary in 2016. Their only hope is to convince people that the "evil" insurance companies are standing in the way of total govt utopia and healthcare. Which, was kinda the goal all along.

The Democrats will spin this that is the insurance companies that were offering "bad quality" insurance, and thats why they are losing their policies. The only hope is to turn to an entity that has your best interests at heart, the govt.

/FAIL

I hope you're wrong...............

but knowing what spineless immoral scumbag trash that democrats are, you're probably right.

[BanginJimmy]

They already are claiming the canceled policies are bad policies and the people would be better off without them.

[Sinfix_15]

Your taxes paid for this advertisement. Enjoy.....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY46fYXCUAA9iX0.jpg:large

[Vteckidd]

Clinton calling on Obama to adhere to his promise and committment

[Browning151]

doyougotinsurance.com

Do you got insurance?

Wow.

[.blank cd]

Your taxes paid for this advertisement. Enjoy....

Do you live in Colorado?

[Vteckidd]

That cant be a real ad. Must be a joke.

WOW. I clicked the site and it looks legit. Are we sure this isnt someones ploy or farce?

If that is real, just shows the complete lack of class society has come to.

[Vteckidd]

Do you live in Colorado?

Any tax dollars that goes to an ad like that is wrong.

[.blank cd]

Who cares? All three of y'all saw the ads, so it worked.

[.blank cd]

And it doesn't look like any tax dollars went into it at all. So there's that.

[Vteckidd]

And it doesn't look like any tax dollars went into it at all. So there's that.

Something tells me this is a joke. Or and ad campaign by someone who DOESNT like Obamacare.

[Vteckidd]

And it doesn't look like any tax dollars went into it at all. So there's that.

Not sure about that

- Boston.com (http://boston.com/community/forums/news/politics/general/taxpayer-funded-ads-use-sex-to-fool-young-people-to-purchase-obamacare/80/6891848)
Do You Got Insurance? | The Locker Room (http://lockerroom.johnlocke.org/2013/11/12/do-you-got-insurance/)
Obamacare ads from Colorado Consumer Health Initiative | Radio Vice Online (http://radioviceonline.com/obamacare-ads-colorado-consumer-health-initiative/)
ObamaCare Ad: 'Hope He's As Easy To Get As Birth Control' (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/12/obamacare-ad-hope-hes-as-easy-to-get-as-birth-control)
Obamacare Ads Push 'Brosurance': 'Don't Tap Into Your Beer Money to Cover Those Medical
Bills' (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/22/Obamacare-insurance-keg-stands)
http://michellemalkin.com/2013/11/13/bros-and-hos-obamacares-bread-and-circuses/
not that those are "reputable sources" by your standards, but sure looks like its taxpayer funded



The “Got Insurance?” campaign is the lame brainchild of two “progressive” outfits with dubious nonprofit status: ProgressNow and the Colorado Consumer Health Initiative. Their previous claim to fame: a “Thanks, Obamacare” social media movement to propagandize praise and gratitude for the federal mandate.

http://www.cohealthinitiative.org/mission

[Sinfix_15]

That cant be a real ad. Must be a joke.

WOW. I clicked the site and it looks legit. Are we sure this isnt someones ploy or farce?

If that is real, just shows the complete lack of class society has come to.

It's a real, tax payer funded website designed to promote Obamacare.......

Obama himself is running around to every sports league and hollywood actor in America trying to get people to endorse Obamacare.... why would anyone be surprised by this? This is why Obama's sheeple love him. He appeals to lower class citizens..... that's why he's a democrat.

[Sinfix_15]

Something tells me this is a joke. Or and ad campaign by someone who DOESNT like Obamacare.

I wish the Obama presidency was a joke..... but no, this is what our government has become.

[Sinfix_15]

And it doesn't look like any tax dollars went into it at all. So there's that.

False. Once again you pull shit out of your ass, put your own opinion on a pedestal and lie effortlessly. Congratulations.... you make democrats proud.

[.blank cd]

Not taxpayer funded. Sorry.


In response to a barrage of Twitter inquiries Wednesday morning, two Colorado organizations responsible for controversial Obamacare advertisements said their private non-profit organizations have never received government funding.

ProgressNow Colorado and Colorado Consumer Health Initiative, supporters of Colorado's health insurance exchange, both said the "Got insurance?" campaign was paid for with donations and individual contributions, like their organizations. They also denied association with state agencies.

"I know some people are saying this is a taxpayer-funded campaign and that we're somehow connected to Connect for Health Colorado, but that is just not the case," said Amy Runyon-Harms, executive director of ProgressNow Colorado.

The insurance ads made a stir on social media earlier this week. One ad that was targeted on Twitter features a woman flashing a thumbs up with one hand and holding a packet of birth control pills in the other. She is wrapped in a man's arm next to text that includes, "Let's hope he's as easy to get as this birth control."

The advertisements, which also include keg stand and ski-shot scenes, debuted in October.



Colorado Obamacare ads not paid for with state funds, backers say - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_24514667/colorado-obamacare-ads-not-paid-state-funds-backers#ixzz2kYHCcFys)

[Vteckidd]

Thats a pretty frightening ad, to basically appeal to young people as booze induced , sluts/whores who only care about beer money and fucking.

I would be outraged if i was in that demographic

[.blank cd]

False. Once again you pull shit out of your ass, put your own opinion on a pedestal and lie effortlessly. Congratulations.... you make democrats proud.

You must feel like a jackass once again huh?

[Vteckidd]

Not taxpayer funded. Sorry.





Colorado Obamacare ads not paid for with state funds, backers say - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_24514667/colorado-obamacare-ads-not-paid-state-funds-backers#ixzz2kYHCcFys)

Ok thats like saying PP doesnt use federal funds for abortions. Theres no real way to connect the tax payers to private donors. But , regardless, its a terrible ad

[Sinfix_15]

Obama administration plans $12M ad buy to promote health law - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/obamacare-ad-buy-96339.html)

[Sinfix_15]

Obamacare Outreach Campaign To Cost At Least $684 Million Annually (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/obamacare-marketing-campaign_n_3644961.html)

[Sinfix_15]

I honestly dont even care about how it's funded.....

This is an ad campaign by democrats, designed in a way that they think reaches out to the American people, to get them to support Obamacare. This is an accurate representation of democratic values and is an honest look into the values of your avg democrat.

There's no denying that tax payer money is being spent to promote Obamacare..... Obama himself is reaching out to athletes and celebs to endorse Obamacare.

Why run from an ad that accurately represents democrat values? You have a problem with that ad Blank? if so, what's your problem with it?

[Sinfix_15]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qpa-5JdCnmo

[Sinfix_15]

lol...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY_J1H7CUAAvJdl.png:large

[BanginJimmy]

lol...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BY_J1H7CUAAvJdl.png:large

That is funny.

Probably fake, but funny.

[David88vert]

248283


Build Us a Death Star Petition Signers: 34,435
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/secure-resources-and-funding-and-begin-construction-death-star-2016/wlfKzFkN

Healthcare.gov: 26,794 signed up the first month
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/26-000-signed-through-federal-obamacare-website-first-month-administration-2D11591428

[.blank cd]

That is funny.

Probably fake, but funny.

It's true.

Probably the most non-bullshit post Sinfix has ever made in life.

[BanginJimmy]

Healthcare.gov: 26,794 signed up the first month
26,000 signed up on federal Obamacare website in first month: administration - NBC News.com (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/26-000-signed-through-federal-obamacare-website-first-month-administration-2D11591428)

This is what I really find interesting.

106k people signed up for Obamacare plans since the markets opened. According to Avalere Health, 444k signed up for medicaid. I just dont see the system staying afloat when you have medicaid outpacing private insurance by 4:1.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57611885/medicaid-signups-an-early-obamacare-bright-spot/


Doctor shortages? You can bet on it but not in a way you thought.
The Fourth Obamacare Shock Wave Is About To Reach Us - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2013/11/13/the-fourth-obamacare-shock-wave-is-about-to-reach-us/)

[Sinfix_15]

It's true.

Probably the most non-bullshit post Sinfix has ever made in life.

Hey kettle. How u doin?

[Echonova]

This is what I really find interesting.

106k people signed up for Obamacare plans since the markets opened. According to Avalere Health, 444k signed up for medicaid. I just dont see the system staying afloat when you have medicaid outpacing private insurance by 4:1.
Medicaid signups an early Obamacare bright spot - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57611885/medicaid-signups-an-early-obamacare-bright-spot/)Medicaid is healthcare for the poor. With so many Americans out of work and/or taking part-time work... This is Obama's true legacy.




And no surprise.


With 49% of the population taking some sort of subsidy why would anyone think healthcare would be different?

[BanginJimmy]

Medicaid is healthcare for the poor. With so many Americans out of work and/or taking part-time work... This is Obama's true legacy.




And no surprise.


With 49% of the population taking some sort of subsidy why would anyone think healthcare would be different?

I know what it is, but if this ratio holds up it is unsustainable for even 1 year. Supporters say people wont go to the emergency room if they have insurance, but my second article pretty much debunks that talking point because it shows that even if they have insurance, they probably wont be able to find a doctor to see, sending them right back to the ER.

[Echonova]

I know what it is, but if this ratio holds up it is unsustainable for even 1 year. Supporters say people wont go to the emergency room if they have insurance, but my second article pretty much debunks that talking point because it shows that even if they have insurance, they probably wont be able to find a doctor to see, sending them right back to the ER.I wasn't trying to say you didn't know what it was. Just trying to keep the explanations simple for the low-information people that stumble across this thread.


But to your point. Obamacare is working exactly as intended. The whole system was designed to fail, just not this soon. I can't wait for next year when the employer mandate exemption goes away. The complaints we are hearing now are just a whisper of what's to come.

[David88vert]

I just got my new insurance numbers this morning.

Two years ago, I paid $250/month for my insurance plan with BCBS of GA - and it had slowly raised up to that price over the three previous years. That same plan is now going to be $758/month.
If I am willing to change doctors, and use KP instead, then my cost will be just over $450/month.
So much for the ACA helping keep the costs of health insurance down. When does the "affordable" part of the bill kick in?

"You can keep your doctor (as long as you can afford the new higher rates)"

[David88vert]

In Washington D.C., on the LOCAL exchange (not the Healthcare.gov website), just five people enrolled even though officials spent $133,573,928 to set up the exchange. That's $26,714,785.60 per enrollee.
Who is this supposed to be affordable for? Definitely not the taxpayers. I certainly doesn't see that the 47 million Americans that are uninsured are not lining up to sign up and pay for these new "affordable" insurance plans.

You'll recall that every single Democratic lawmaker in both sides of Congress voted in favor of Obamacare. Think more about it and you'll remember that they voted to approve the bill without actually reading the bill first. Now, a group of about a dozen of them have given the White House until Friday to come up with a way for people to keep their health care coverage. Shouldn't they had made those changes through amendments before voting for the final bill. That's how our legislative system is supposed to work.

So, what has Obamacare actually done so far? It fines people for not buying a product from a website that doesn't work right, and it has caused an upheaval where - under the pretense of ensuring that all Americans have health insurance - several million Americans who had health insurance wake up to find that they no longer do.

In a Quinnipiac University poll released this week, only 19% of Americans say they believe the quality of their health care will improve in the next year, while 43% say it will get worse and 33% don't think it will impact their coverage one way or another.

[Browning151]

106k people signed up for Obamacare plans since the markets opened.

And that number even includes people who have put a plan in their "shopping cart" but haven't actually checked out and purchased a plan. That's one way of trying to polish a turd I guess.

I wonder what Amazons sales numbers would look like if they followed the same accounting model? Maybe we should start counting test drives as car sales too, I'm sure sales staff would love that.

[Vteckidd]

I just got my new insurance numbers this morning.

Two years ago, I paid $250/month for my insurance plan with BCBS of GA - and it had slowly raised up to that price over the three previous years. That same plan is now going to be $758/month.
If I am willing to change doctors, and use KP instead, then my cost will be just over $450/month.
So much for the ACA helping keep the costs of health insurance down. When does the "affordable" part of the bill kick in?

"You can keep your doctor (as long as you can afford the new higher rates)"

Need a more reliable source than your word, seems biased

/blank.cdresponse

[Sinfix_15]

And that number even includes people who have put a plan in their "shopping cart" but haven't actually checked out and purchased a plan. That's one way of trying to polish a turd I guess.

I wonder what Amazons sales numbers would look like if they followed the same accounting model? Maybe we should start counting test drives as car sales too, I'm sure sales staff would love that.

Well damn......

I guess i am signed up for Obamacare too then...





















and i have 32 big screen TVs

[Echonova]

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x249/Echonova1/1466031_419741418149289_2020978074_n_zpsf692e9d4.j pg

[.blank cd]

Vermont passes single-payer.

As health-insurance problems keep arising, Vermont offers a ray of hope | MinnPost (http://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2013/11/health-insurance-problems-keep-arising-vermont-offers-ray-hope)

Surely this place will start looking like Afghanistan and North Korea any minute now....

[Vteckidd]

Well 2 things will inevitably happen

1) Costs will rise
2) Care will suffer (as in quality of care)

YOu can bet on higher taxes, and doctors leaving the state. Save this post and respond in 5 years

[Vteckidd]

SIGN ME UP


Vermont needs $2 billion in new taxes to fund single-payer health-care plan
Vermont needs $2 billion in new taxes to fund single-payer health-care plan - Green Mountain Outlook (http://www.gmoutlook.com/news/2013/nov/18/vermont-needs-2-billion-new-taxes-fund-single-paye/)

[David88vert]

I'm guessing that you haven't been following the news. Either Obama was lying, or his staff was intentionally hiding pertinent information from him. Either way, bad news.

Private consulting firm warned of glitches before healthcare.gov launch – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/19/private-consulting-firm-warned-of-glitches-before-healthcare-gov-launch/?hpt=hp_t3)

Obamacare declared a success by Obama? Not so fast - the numbers fall right in line with what I have been seeing.

Bad news for woman cited as Obamacare success story – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/11/19/bad-news-for-woman-cited-as-obamacare-success-story/?hpt=hp_t2)

[David88vert]

Vermont passes single-payer.

As health-insurance problems keep arising, Vermont offers a ray of hope | MinnPost (http://www.minnpost.com/community-voices/2013/11/health-insurance-problems-keep-arising-vermont-offers-ray-hope)

Surely this place will start looking like Afghanistan and North Korea any minute now....


A blog. And you question my sources? LOL

Vermont has two insurers for the state. Vermont uses a community rating that blends the rates across ages, making younger participants pay much higher premiums than if they lived in another state.

Vermont's suggested cost savings are being questioned by Avalere Health, as the numbers don't add up: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20131114/NEWS03/311140037/

[.blank cd]

A blog. And you question my sources? LOL
What does the source matter in this case? I'm not disputing a fact. Vermont passed single payer, did they not?

[David88vert]

What does the source matter in this case? I'm not disputing a fact. Vermont passed single payer, did they not?

So, sources only matter when others are stating information, not when you are. Got it.

They aren't implementing it until 2017.
Their current system is not single payer. What the heck is Vermont Health Connect? - VTDigger (http://vtdigger.org/2013/11/18/heck-vermont-health-connect/)

Do you know why they are attempting it there? It's the most liberal state in the union and with a population of about 626,000 and just 15 hospitals, all nonprofits, it is the only state with a chance to actually implement it. Also, Vermont also has little income diversity. In the rest of the country, we see that people with lower incomes who don't pay into a health care system make it costlier for other people. In Vermont, 96 percent of children have insurance coverage, and 91 percent of the overall population does - only Mass. ranks higher.
Now, how are you going to make it work in a state like GA or CA? - or any state that has racial and income divides much, much wider than VT (the other 49 states).

[Vteckidd]

Blue Cross NC to raise individual rates by as much as 24% on reinstated health plans | CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/11/19/4480209/blue-cross-nc-to-raise-individual.html#.Uo6GQOKyGas)

Premiums not rising doe

[David88vert]

How Obamacare has fared in each state (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/11/21/how-obamacare-has-fared-in-each-state/)

Pretty poorly in GA

[David88vert]

Obamacare signup delayed -- for 2015 - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/politics/obamacare-signup-delay-2015/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Obamacare signup is delayed until 2015. Sounds like the Democrats started getting worried about mid-terms.

[David88vert]

Someone is not being truthful. As someone who has delivered many enterprise software applications, I can say that the testing documentation and defect report is likely to be correct, not the CMS officials.

Key part of HeathCare.gov passed test but was still shelved - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/22/politics/health-website-anonymous-shopper/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

[.blank cd]

Lowest growth in healthcare spending and costs in 50 years.

http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/healthcostreport_final_noembargo_v2.pdf

But....Fox and friends said Obamacare would make costs skyrocket. Hmmm....

Hospital readmission rates are down as well. Guess that means


1) Costs will rise
2) Care will suffer (as in quality of care)

Are both false so far.

[Vteckidd]

Are both false so far.

when you pick your own facts to fit your point of view, sure.

LOL@ using the WHITE HOUSE as a "SOURCE" LOLOL yeah cause they have NOTHING to lose do they HAHAHAHA

49-State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums By Average Of 41% - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analysis-obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidies-flow-to-elderly/)

2014 health insurance costs rising more | The Columbus Dispatch (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/11/03/2014-insurance-costs-rising-more.html)

Obamacare Raising Premiums, Hurting Middle, Lower Class | Washington Free Beacon (http://freebeacon.com/obamacare-raising-premiums-hurting-middle-lower-class/)

Just google OBAMACARE and look at all the LEFT WING places reporting the massive increases, cancellations, and impending rate hikes.

Or, stick your head in the sand and ignore it

[.blank cd]

LOL@ using the WHITE HOUSE as a "SOURCE" LOLOL yeah cause they have NOTHING to lose do they HAHAHAHA

Lol. Talk about sticking your head in the sand....


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President/2013.
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Poisal, Christian J. Wolfe, Joseph M. Lizonitz and Devin A. Stone. “National Health Expenditure Projections, 2012-22: Slow Growth Until Coverage Expands And Economy Improves,” Health Affairs, 2013, 32(10), 1-12.
Cutler, David. 2004. Your Money or Your Life: Strong Medicine for America’s Health Care System. New York, NY: Oxford University.
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Cutler, David and Nikhil R. Sahni. “If Slow Rate of Health Care Spending Growth Persists, Projections May Be Off by $770 Billion,” Health Affairs, 2013, 32(5), 841-850.
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Dranove, David. “Pricing by Non-Profit Institutions,” Journal of Health Economics, 1988, 47-57. Elmendorf, Doug. “The Slowdown in Health Care Spending,” Brookings Panel on Economic
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Niall Brennnan. “Medicare Readmission Rates Showed Meaningful Decline in 2012,”
Medicare & Medicaid Research Review, 2013, 3(2), E1-E12.
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He, Daifeng and Jennifer M. Mellor. “Hospital volume responses to Medicare’s Outpatient Prospective Payment System: Evidence from Florida, Journal of Health Economics, 2012, 730-743.
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Sisko, Andrea, Christopher Truffer, Sheila Smith, Sean Keehan, Jonathan Cylus, John A. Poisal, M. Kent Clemens, and Joseph Lizonitz. “Health Spending Projections Through 2018: Recession Effects Add Uncertainty to the Outlook,” Health Affairs, 2009, 28(2), 346-357.
Sood, Neeraj, Arkadipta Ghosh and Jose J. Escarce. “Costs, Use and Outcomes: Employer- Sponsored Insurance, Health Care Cost Growth, and the Economic Performance of U.S. Industries,” Health Services Research, 2009, 1-16.
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Spiro, Topher and Jonathan Gruber. “The Affordable Care Act’s Lower-Than-Projected Premiums Will Save $190 billion,” 2013, The Affordable Care Act (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/report/2013/10/23/77537/the-) affordable-care-acts-lower-than-projected-premiums-will-save-190-billion/.
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[.blank cd]

Or I suppose the more logical explanation is that all those people are talking out of their ass.

[Vteckidd]

Cherry picking to fit your argument and narrative. LEGIT!

[David88vert]

Blank, I think you don't know how to interpret your own posted report.
What is spent on healthcare is not the same topic as the new Obamacare rates. Apples to oranges.

Older Hill aides shocked by Obamacare prices - Jonathan Allen and Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/older-capitol-hill-aides-obamacare-affordable-care-act-prices-health-insurance-100226.html)

Sticker shock hits health exchange shoppers (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/21/affordability-obamacare-plans-varies-state-county/3641821/)

Do You Win Or Lose Under Obamacare? What You Must Know To See How You'll Fare - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2013/11/20/do-you-win-or-lose-under-obamacare-for-the-privately-insured-what-youll-need-to-know-to-see-if-obamacare-will-leave-you-better-off/)

[Vteckidd]

If you BELIEVE that Healthcare costs are FALLING, then you are a lost cause I dont have to spend 20 pages explaining why youre wrong. Just keep drinking the Kool Aid

[.blank cd]

Blank, I think you don't know how to interpret your own posted report.
What is spent on healthcare is not the same topic as the new Obamacare rates. Apples to oranges.Healthcare costs have slowed. That's what I said, and that's what the data shows. Nothing more. Nothing less.


If you BELIEVE that Healthcare costs are FALLING, then you are a lost cause I dont have to spend 20 pages explaining why youre wrong. Just keep drinking the Kool Aid
Well I just spent one post telling you how you were wrong, so apparantly you know something all those people don't know. Please, share it with the rest of us.

I believe what the data shows. Nothing more. The data says healthcare spending and cost growth is lower than it's been in 50 years, it even says ACA is the cause. It also says readmission rates are also slowing. That almost directly contradicts your claim of costs rising and quality of care falling. So, if you have some information that contradicts what all those people researched, then please, share it with us.

[Sinfix_15]

Healthcare costs have slowed. That's what I said, and that's what the data shows. Nothing more. Nothing less.


Well I just spent one post telling you how you were wrong, so apparantly you know something all those people don't know. Please, share it with the rest of us.

I believe what the data shows. Nothing more. The data says healthcare spending and cost growth is lower than it's been in 50 years, it even says ACA is the cause. It also says readmission rates are also slowing. That almost directly contradicts your claim of costs rising and quality of care falling. So, if you have some information that contradicts what all those people researched, then please, share it with us.

This post contradicts itself.

[.blank cd]

This post contradicts itself.

Ok

[David88vert]

HCUP-US Statistical Briefs Chronological (http://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/statbriefs.jsp)

HCCI | Health Care Cost Institute (http://www.healthcostinstitute.org/)

[Echonova]

Facts are a needless distraction.

[Echonova]

This is how blank sees the facts, and how he will be shown the truth. It's right under his nose... One day. Not today, but one day.


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/original_zpsb5147e29.gif

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/ku-xlarge_zps6eeb432d.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTrLutzIMAEEwZZ.jpg:large

[Echonova]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BTrLutzIMAEEwZZ.jpg:largehttp://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x249/Echonova1/1377268_10151602529991923_1783579700_n_zpse899f537 .jpg

[David88vert]

Franken open to individual mandate delay (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/11/22/franken-open-to-individual-mandate-delay/?tid=auto_complete)

"Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) says he would be open to a brief delay in the individual mandate if the problems with HealthCare.gov aren’t fixed by the end of the month, according to Minnesota Public Radio.

"I think then we have to consider extending the deadline for the mandate, but let’s hope that doesn’t happen," Franken told MPR.

Franken has so far been relatively quiet about potential changes to the health-care law, but he now joins a growing group of Senate Democrats in seats that could be targeted by the GOP in 2014 who are speaking up on the issue."

Didn't Chris Matthews call Sen. Ted Cruz a "political terrorist" when he tried to change Obamacare?
Now, if Sen. Franken ends up supporting a delay to the individual mandate, does that make him a "political terrorist" as well? Will we see an outcry from MSNBC denouncing him?

[Manny Naber]

If blank is half as smart as blank thinks blank is...... he is hanging his head in shame and avoiding this section. The reality of Obama's failures is becoming too obvious to ignore, even for those who desperately want to ignore it.

I've been hearing former Obama supporters say "Romney was right" all week.


If you're as smart as you play to be you would know that our President doesn't have an actual say in ...... anything really.

[Sinfix_15]

If you're as smart as you play to be you would know that our President doesn't have an actual say in ...... anything really.

So everything is or isnt Bush's fault?

[.blank cd]

What does Bush have to do with this discussion?

[David88vert]

If you're as smart as you play to be you would know that our President doesn't have an actual say in ...... anything really.

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/obamapengetty.jpg

[Sinfix_15]

What does Bush have to do with this discussion?

It was a rhetorical question aimed at sarcastically poking fun at the democratic narrative.....

you know...?

Everything bad is Bush's fault and Obama has absolutely nothing to do with anything, other than killing Osama Bin Laden with his bare hands.

[.blank cd]

It was a rhetorical question aimed at sarcastically poking fun at the democratic narrative.....

you know...?

Everything bad is Bush's fault and Obama has absolutely nothing to do with anything, other than killing Osama Bin Laden with his bare hands.well no one said anything about it but you, so...

[Sinfix_15]

well no one said anything about it but you, so...

He said "i should know that the president doesnt do anything"

This goes against what i hear in the media regarding previous presidents.

[.blank cd]

He said "i should know that the president doesnt do anything"

This goes against what i hear in the media regarding previous presidents.

Why are you so preoccupied with what the media says?

[Sinfix_15]

Why are you so preoccupied with what the media says?

The media is an instrumental tool in deciding elections. If they were honest, Obama wouldnt be president. That's a pretty big deal IMO.

[BanginJimmy]

If you're as smart as you play to be you would know that our President doesn't have an actual say in ...... anything really.

Then under what authority did he use to modify the law of the land, Obamacare, without congressional approval?

[.blank cd]

Then under what authority did he use to modify the law of the land, Obamacare, without congressional approval?

Could you clarify what you mean by "modify without congressional approval"?


Passed the House on October 8, 2009 (416–0)
Passed the Senate as the "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" on December 24, 2009 (60–39) with amendment
House agreed to Senate amendment on March 21, 2010 (219–212)
Signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 23, 2010

[Vteckidd]

Delaying the mandates, changing the law and its implementation.

last week he told the Insurance companies its ok to break his own law so people wouldnt lose their own insurance. He basically is circumventing pieces of legislation to appease voters when the backlash gets more than he can handle

[.blank cd]

The media is an instrumental tool in deciding elections. If they were honest, Obama wouldnt be president. That's a pretty big deal IMO.

Isn't that your opinion?

[BanginJimmy]

Could you clarify what you mean by "modify without congressional approval"?

Asked


Delaying the mandates, changing the law and its implementation.

last week he told the Insurance companies its ok to break his own law so people wouldnt lose their own insurance. He basically is circumventing pieces of legislation to appease voters when the backlash gets more than he can handle

Answered


Isn't that your opinion?

The porton of his comment about the media being "instrumental" in elections isnt opinion and you know it. We all know you arent stupid so quit acting like it. Everyone with even a limited knowledge of politics knows the media, mainstream and alternative, plays a dramatic role in any election cycle.

[.blank cd]

The portion of his comment about the media being "instrumental" in elections isnt opinion and you know it. We all know you arent stupid so quit acting like it. Everyone with even a limited knowledge of politics knows the media, mainstream and alternative, plays a dramatic role in any election cycle.

But this part


If they were honest, Obama wouldnt be president. That's a pretty big deal IMO.

is pure opinion

[BanginJimmy]

But this part



is pure opinion


Yes, its opinion. I dont think its very far fetched though. Given the same scrutiny that McCain and Romney got, its highly plausible he wouldnt have been elected.

[BanginJimmy]

Delaying the mandates, changing the law and its implementation.

last week he told the Insurance companies its ok to break his own law so people wouldnt lose their own insurance. He basically is circumventing pieces of legislation to appease voters when the backlash gets more than he can handle

I guess he isnt going to answer this.


Another bullet point for this one. His admin delayed the small business exchange, which is part of the ACA.


Since when does the president have the authority to unilaterally change the law?

[David88vert]

CNN is reporting now that, according to their polling, only 35% of Americans actually still support Obamacare.
62% oppose the ACA.

CNN Poll: Health care law support drops to all-time low – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/12/23/cnn-poll-heath-care-law-support-drops-to-all-time-low/?hpt=hp_t2)

Other numbers:
42% say they will be personally worse off under Obamacare, with 16% saying the law will help them.

As for Obama's promise that you could keep your same doctor and health plan - 35% are not able to see their same doctor.

This was a telephone survey, so it meets blank's acceptance criteria and is to be considered scientific.

[David88vert]

Now, if you don't already know - if you want coverage through the exchanges on Jan 1st, you have to sign up and pay for your plan by today.
Obamacare deadlines: Pick plan now for January 1 coverage - Dec. 22, 2013 (http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/22/news/economy/obamacare-deadlines/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

So far, just over 1 million have signed up in healthcare.gov. No word on if they all paid up yet.

No one knows where the other 46 million uninsured Americans, who Obama said were calling for insurance, have gone to find their insurance.

[Vteckidd]

Its working doe.

[.blank cd]

Shit. Deadline is today. And I was gonna get on the exchange. Oh well. Another year of paying out of my ass for something I don't use.

[David88vert]

Now on CNN: Obama signs up for Obamacare, even though his healthcare is taken care of through the military and he has a doctor devoted to his care on every trip.
Also, the government is now extending the deadline to sign up from today until tomorrow.
Obamacare deadline extended by one day - Dec. 22, 2013 (http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/22/news/economy/obamacare-deadlines/index.html)


I was wrong earlier when I stated over a million had signed upon the federal site, healthcare.gov. Turns out that is the total of all people who have signed up for private insurance on both the federal and state exchanges, but it appears that is only a sign up number, not a number of those who have already paid for thier coverage.

[David88vert]

Shit. Deadline is today. And I was gonna get on the exchange. Oh well. Another year of paying out of my ass for something I don't use.

You have until tomorrow to select your plan, and while you are supposed to pay for it by tomorrow, many insurers are giving you until Jan 10th to pay for it.
So, go ahead and sign up now and let us know how that goes.

[Vteckidd]

PER CNN




Obamacare may finally be in full swing, but most Americans are still going to be paying more for health care.

Health care premiums for large employer-sponsored plans are expected to rise by as much as 7%, compared to a roughly 3.3% increase in 2013, according to an analysis by Aon Hewitt.

Average employee costs, including premiums and out-of-pocket expenses such as co-pays and deductibles, are expected to reach nearly $5,000, an increase of almost 150% from a decade ago.

"We've seen that consistently year-over-year, more and more of the cost is being shifted to employees, something we expect to continue going forward," said Geoffrey Kuhn, a senior vice president at Aon Hewitt.


Premiums not rising doe

[BanginJimmy]

PER CNN





Premiums not rising doe

If only someone would have predicted this 3 years ago we might have been able to avoid it.

[Vteckidd]

"Insurance companies appear to be [cancelling policies] for a variety of reasons; some are pulling all their plans from certain states where they have fewer subscribers in order to save money."

And...

4 Debunking Obamacare myths: Both sides get it wrong - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/05/politics/obamacare-debunking-myths/index.html?c=&page=1)

Obamacare (http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/john-perazzo/obamacares-stunning-redistribution-of-wealth/)


Let’s say that you are a healthy, hardworking 54-year-old single adult in San Francisco earning $45,960 per year—the income level at which federal Obamacare subsidies from your fellow taxpayers are no longer available to help you pay your monthly health-insurance premiums. As a San Francisco resident, you are permitted to choose from among 16 separate Obamacare-compliant insurance plans. Four of these are so-called “Bronze” plans, low-level policies whose average premium will cost you $453 per month, or $5,436 per year. In exchange for those premium payments, a Bronze plan will cover 60% of your medical expenses—that is, after you meet the $5,000 out-of-pocket annual deductible. For this priceless peace of mind, you can thank Obamacare—the Democratic Party’s gift to a grateful America.

Let us contrast your case with that of Joe, another 54-year-old single individual in San Francisco, who happens to be an obese alcoholic and longtime drug abuser with little ambition and no history of ever having held a full-time job for very long. Joe currently earns $15,860 per year, which is just above the income level that would have made him eligible for Medicaid. Because Joe doesn’t qualify for Medicaid, Obamacare stipulates that he must now purchase his own health insurance—thereby proving that, contrary to the shrill rhetoric of conservative naysayers, no one gets an undeserved free ride under Obamacare.

Like you, Joe can choose from among 16 separate plans that are available to San Francisco residents. But unlike you, he is eligible to receive federal government subsidies—money that other, wealthier Americans, such as you, magnanimously “contribute” toward the healthcare expenses of financially “disadvantaged” individuals. If he selects one of the four Bronze plans (whose average monthly premium is $453), Joe qualifies for $452 in average monthly subsidies—meaning that, regardless of which Bronze plan he chooses, he will pay a monthly premium of exactly $1. You read that correctly. The very same healthcare plan that would cost you $453 per month, is available to Joe for $1 per month—i.e., the cost of three oatmeal-raisin cookies at your local Subway sandwich shop. Over the course of a year, you will pay a total of $5,436 in policy premiums, while Joe, who sadly failed to qualify for free healthcare through Medicaid, will pay his own fair share of $12. This is all in the interest of social justice, you understand. And please, don’t even think about whispering that Obamacare might be some sort of “wealth redistribution” scheme, lest you expose yourself as a petulant reactionary who doesn’t give a damn about sick people.

Oh, imagine what a wonderful world it would be if we could somehow transfer this same brand of Obamacare-style fairness to realms other than health insurance. In such a utopia, for example, the $25,000 new automobile that you purchase would cost a deserving soul like Joe just $55. Your $100 nightly fee at a motel would be 45 cents for Joe. And the $25 hardcover book you purchase at Barnes & Noble would set Joe back about a nickel. What’s that, you say? These items aren’t life-and-death necessities, like medical care, and thus don’t serve as useful analogies? Good point! Let’s stick with real necessities, such as food and housing: The same load of groceries that costs you $250 would cost Joe 55 cents. Your $1,200-per-month rent or mortgage payment would be available to Joe for about $2.65 a month. And the $250,000 home you seek to buy could be Joe’s for about $552. Yes, we’re talking about a veritable paradise of fairness!

Bolded is the only part that matters.

[David88vert]

Help! I can't reach my Obamacare insurer - Jan. 12, 2014 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/01/12/news/economy/obamacare-insurers/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

[BanginJimmy]

I have gotten to the point that I skim the articles and read the comments word for word.


If anyone has any questions as to why this country is in the shape its in now, just read the comments. If that doesnt answer your questions, you are part of the problem.

[Echonova]

Medicare overpaying millions on 'erection pumps,' report says - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/13/medicare-overpaying-millions-erection-pumps-report/?1)

[Echonova]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j402/Echonova2/1488015_610784105623936_92291028_n_zps40067613.jpg

[Browning151]

CBO: O-Care slowing growth, contributing to job losses (http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/197365-cbo-o-care-slowing-growth)


The new healthcare law will slow economic growth over the next decade, costing the nation about 2.5 million jobs and contributing to a $1 trillion increase in projected deficits, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said in a report released Tuesday.

The nonpartisan agency’s report found the healthcare law’s negative effects on the economy will be “substantially larger” than what it had previously anticipated.

The CBO is now estimating the law will reduce labor force compensation by 1 percent from 2017-2024, twice the reduction it previously had projected.
This will decrease the number of full-time equivalent jobs in 2021 by 2.3 million, the CBO said. It had previously estimated the decrease would be 800,000.

The budget scorekeeper said this decrease would be caused partly by people leaving the workforce in response to lower wages offered by employers and increased insurance coverage through the healthcare law.

The agency also said employer penalties in the law would decrease wages, and part-year workers would be slower to return to the work force because they would seek to retain ObamaCare insurance subsidies.

"All our analysis led us to conclude the effects of the [healthcare law] on labor force participation would be a good deal larger than we had though originally," CBO Director Doug Elmendorf said. "Fundamentally, the Affordable Care Act provides subsidies to lower income people and those subsidies phase out ... that will have some effects on discouraging labor supply."

The healthcare law isn’t the only reason the CBO is projecting slower economic growth between 2014 and 2023, however. It also cited inflation and lower productivity as reasons why it was lowering its projections.

The slower growth will mean less tax revenue, which will add to the deficit. Instead of adding $6.3 trillion in deficits from 2014 to 2023, the government will add $7.3 trillion, the CBO now projects.

By 2023, the gross debt of the United States will be $26 trillion, up from a projected $25 trillion. A year later, the debt will rise to $27 trillion as the $1.074 trillion deficit for fiscal 2024 is added in.

The CBO said that the ObamaCare labor effects cause about 0.5 percent drop in nominal GDP over ten years.

“Most of the increase in projected deficits results from lower projections for the growth of real GDP and for inflation, which have resulted in projected revenues between 2014 and 2023 by $1.4 trillion,” the CBO explained.

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), the chairman of the House Budget Committee, said lawmakers must address the nation's long-term fiscal outlook.

"Washington can't continue to ignore the problem: trillions of dollars in empty promises. And Obamacare is only making things worse. This costly law is not only pushing government spending to new heights; it is disrupting coverage and leaving millions of Americans worse off," Ryan said.

The White House argued that the CBO report cannot be used to say ObamaCare "hurts jobs."

"Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families," spokesman Jay Carney said, adding "the Republican plan to repeal the ACA would strip those hard-working Americans of that opportunity."

The CBO now thinks the economy will grow at 3.1 percent in this fiscal year, which ends in October, rather than the 3.4 percent growth it predicted last year.

The unemployment rate is projected to fall to 6.7 percent by the end of the year, much lower than the 7.6 percent the CBO saw for 2014 previously. The budget office does not see unemployment falling below 6 percent for the rest of President Obama’s term, however.

In the near term, the CBO is projecting smaller deficits.

The budget office says legislation enacted since May has reduced deficits by $400 billion.

For 2014, the deficit is slated to be $514 billion, an improvement of $46 billion from last year’s projection.

In 2015, the deficit falls to $478 billion. That is still higher than the last full year of the Bush administration, when the deficit was $458 billion, but it is a steep drop from the $1 trillion deficits of most of the Obama years.

The CBO also said the botched ObamaCare rollout will result in 6 million people signing up for coverage through the insurance exchanges this year, 1 million fewer than projected last year.

One million fewer people will enroll in Medicaid and children's health insurance through the healthcare law, and 1 million more people will be uninsured in 2014.



What? Obamacare will cost jobs and generally hurt the economy? Sure didn't see that coming.............

[.blank cd]

^ Found the first person who read only what they wanted to read.

[Vteckidd]

I wish I wasnt lazy and could go find my post from 3-4 years ago that said :


"Mark my words, you will have healthcare, at the expense of your job"

Im sure Blank still thinks this is all utter bullshit and premiums are falling drastically

[Vteckidd]

^ Found the first person who read only what they wanted to read.

The CBO is ALWAYS wrong they always are soft on predictions.

You look at their disparaging numbers on policies you like and say "mehhhh" then you look at their total bullshit deficit projections and go "SEE!!!!!!"

They have been about 2 trillion OFF on Obamacares costs SO FAR and we havent even hit the MEAT part of it yet. The employer mandate will make it far worse

[Vteckidd]

"Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families," spokesman Jay Carney said, adding "the Republican plan to repeal the ACA would strip those hard-working Americans of that opportunity."

LOL only an asshat like Carney would claim that a law the CBO is saying destroys jobs and is inflating costs would cost "HARD WORKING AMERICANS" and blame it on the GOP.

Its not even debatable, Working Americans would be better off WITHOUT the ACA, premiums would be lower, and many people would still have insurance

[Browning151]

^ Found the first person who read only what they wanted to read.

lol, right. No comment of any substance, I'm shocked.

[Vteckidd]

This is how the CBO "estimates"


ObamaCare will slash the equivalent of 2.3 million full-time jobs by 2021, according to the Congressional Budget Office. This is significantly more than the 800K originally estimated.

Obamacare was passed in 2010. In less than 6 months after its rollout, they were off by roughly 1.5 million. WHOOPS.

So tell me HOW am I supposed to give any weight to their "deficit reduction" projections?

They underestimated Obamacare by 2 Trillion.

Take anything the CBO says , and go the other way. IF they say it costs $1, assume $5. If they say 2 years, assume 5

[Echonova]

In all fairness... The CBO can only score things on the parameters they are given. They can't come out and say "This program makes no fucking sense whatsoever".

'Cause honestly both parties spend money so poorly it makes you wonder how they are rich... Oh wait, it's because they aren't spending their own money.

[Echonova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4VEhXW4koo

[.blank cd]

Im sure Blank still thinks this is all utter bullshit and premiums are falling drasticallyfacepalm


LOL only an asshat like Carney would claim that a law the CBO is saying destroys jobs and is inflating costs would cost "HARD WORKING AMERICANS" and blame it on the GOP.Havent seen any democratic proposals to repeal the ACA.


Its not even debatable, Working Americans would be better off WITHOUT the ACA, premiums would be lower, and many people would still have insuranceVery debatable as a matter of fact...


lol, right. No comment of any substance, I'm shocked.


What? Obamacare will cost jobs and generally hurt the economy? Sure didn't see that coming.............
You're absolutely right. No substance at all. You read what you wanted to read and posted your own synopsis of it.

Internet politics.

[BanginJimmy]

Havent seen any democratic proposals to repeal the ACA.


So only a plan from the left is worth considering?




Very debatable as a matter of fact...

Not at all. More than 6 million have lost their health insurance because of Obamacare.





You're absolutely right. No substance at all. You read what you wanted to read and posted your own synopsis of it.

Internet politics.


So why dont you post up your own synopsis. It seems like everyone else is coming to same conclusions I am seeing here. This includes commentary on Fox Business, Bloomberg radio, and CNBC.

[Echonova]

I'm seeing more and more of these "I'm so happy being poor" stories surfacing in the Yahoo/Google news... But it's probably just my right-wing extremist brain looking for a conspiracy.

Why this millennial quit his 6-figure job and gave away most of his possessions - Yahoo Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-millennial-quit-6-figure-205835000.html)

By making less money on purpose, I'm ashamed to say he's ditching his civic responsibility to pay for the "greatest" generation's healthcare.

[Echonova]

~waits for blank to copy/paste "But it's probably just my right-wing extremist brain looking for a conspiracy." and make a snarky "I'm better than you" comment.~

[Echonova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxRTFkQtQYs

[Browning151]

Reading what I want to read? Despite the little silver linings that you can pick out here and there that will be positives for people the overall effect on the economy will be negative. You can slice it, dice it, twist it, spin it, whatever you want to do with it, but at the end of the day the OVERALL effect on the economy is a negative one, no matter how many little positives you want to pull out to make yourself feel all warm and fuzzy.

Go ahead Blank, dazzle us, tell us how we're all wrong and how wonderful Obamacare is and how it's going to have a positive effect on the economy.




~waits for blank to copy/paste "But it's probably just my right-wing extremist brain looking for a conspiracy." and make a snarky "I'm better than you" comment.~

He's not only the smartest man in the room now, he's the smartest man in all the land. Everyone is coming to the same conclusion, that Obamacare will have a negative effect on the economy overall, but we're just reading what we want to read and hearing what we want to hear.

[Vteckidd]

In all fairness... The CBO can only score things on the parameters they are given. They can't come out and say "This program makes no fucking sense whatsoever".

'Cause honestly both parties spend money so poorly it makes you wonder how they are rich... Oh wait, it's because they aren't spending their own money.

Thats why the CBO is never really accurate.

LOL Blank, 6 million people lost their insurance, WORKING FAMILIES lost their healthcare and the .gov rates were higher or the plans cost more(which is why they lost their plans in the first place). OR they lost their doctors.

Its not debatable

[ISAtlanta300]

But...but.... it's all tacit implication. It hasn't happened to me, so it is not happening....herp derp!!

[Echonova]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QasGTKPc9GA

[.blank cd]

So only a plan from the left is worth considering?That isn't what I said at all. I said Carney is blaming the republican effort to repeal Obamacare and that there isn't a democratic effort to repeal Obamacare to blame.



Not at all. More than 6 million have lost their health insurance because of Obamacare.So you and Rightwingkidd are telling me that there are 6 million people that cannot get health insurance?


So why dont you post up your own synopsis. It seems like everyone else is coming to same conclusions I am seeing here. This includes commentary on Fox Business, Bloomberg radio, and CNBC.


Reading what I want to read?.

Go ahead Blank, dazzle us....

We can start by reading the ACTUAL report.

Here's what the CBO actually says, quoted from the report


The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor, so it will appear almost entirely as a reduction in labor force participation and in hours worked relative to what would have occurred otherwise rather than as an increase in unemployment (that is, more workers seeking but not finding jobs) or underemployment (such as part-time workers who would prefer to work more hours per week).

Hmm. Quite different than the "job destroying" narrative.

But hey, I'll admit "OBAMACARE SUX" is easier to type than actually using logic. Must be fun being intellectually dishonest.

[.blank cd]

But...but.... it's all tacit implication. It hasn't happened to me, so it is not happening....herp derp!!

I wouldn't use big words you don't understand.

[Vteckidd]

So you and Rightwingkidd are telling me that there are 6 million people that cannot get health insurance?
Comprehension , i know its not your strong suit. But here we go again:

6 Million people LOST the health insurance they were happy with , paying $XXX a month for with Dr. Smith. Obamacare, forced the insurance companies to cancel their plans, and force them into new plans(that ACA deemed "acceptable"), that cost MORE than what they were paying. So, if we REALLY care about the working family, dont you think its a little shitty that a law designed for them is now costing them MORE money per month?

Sure there is insurance for them to buy, but in some cases it costs them $500-1000 MORE per month. How is that HELPING the "AMERICAN FAMILY" that Carney is trying to use to vitcimize the GOP?

Those families would be better off without the ACA, they would still have their insurance and doctor.

If none of this was a problem, then Obama wouldnt have done this:
Obama Grants One Year Reprieve For Existing Health Insurance Plans - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/11/14/obama-grants-one-year-reprieve-for-existing-health-insurance-plans/)


Why would Obama grant a reprieve if the Healthcare.go insurance was BETTER than the plans that were being cut? He claimed if you liked your plan you could keep it. It was patently false.

[Vteckidd]

Businesses themselves are claiming that the added cost coming with the ACA is going to cause them to shrink their labor force and rethink benefits packages. I mean, what do they know?

The CBO agrees that the ACA is costing jobs, MILLIONS of jobs.

There is a BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS that you quoted

The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply

Do you not see the issue with this? UE 7%, and now we have workers who............dont want to work because we have successfully shown them that you can now work less and make more. Did you not see the study I posted where the guy making under $20,000 a year paid a whopping $1 for medical coverage and the guy making $20,500 a year had to pay $480 a month?

The $20k a year worker gets free money subsidized by the govt for his healthcare.

Congrats, welcome to the end of prosperity as we know it

[Sinfix_15]

blank has his mind made up to be a ride or die obama worshiper, he isnt gonna let facts or logic get in his way. the democratic party thrives on a fully devoted mass of blind voters.

[.blank cd]

Businesses themselves are claiming that the added cost coming with the ACA is going to cause them to shrink their labor force and rethink benefits packages. I mean, what do they know?"claiming" is the operating word here. There's a big difference between claiming and what is actually happening, and the difference is political posturing at the expense of their workers benefits.


The CBO agrees that the ACA is costing jobs, MILLIONS of jobs.Seems like the CBO disagrees with what you think they're saying. Based on their report.


Do you not see the issue with this? UE 7%, and now we have workers who............dont want to work because...[/quote]You can stop right there because everything after that is an assumption and not indicitve of reality.

If people are becoming more prosperous by not working, like you just said, how is that the end of prosperity?

[.blank cd]

blank has his mind made up to be a ride or die obama worshiper, he isnt gonna let facts or logic get in his way. the democratic party thrives on a fully devoted mass of blind voters.If I Ctrl+F'd "Obama", you have mentioned it at lest 120% more than I have. So who's really the Obama Worshiper?

So what I quoted directly from the CBO report, is in fact, not in the report?

Is that what you're saying?

Or are you saying the CBO is flat out lying in their report? If that's the case, can you post some more accurate data so we can clear up this misunderstanding?

[.blank cd]

Interesting. Seems like all the networks are retracting their misinterpretations of the CBO report too. Except Fox News that is. I'm sure they will in time. I'll just wait...

[.blank cd]

249496

[Vteckidd]

"claiming" is the operating word here. There's a big difference between claiming and what is actually happening, and the difference is political posturing at the expense of their workers benefits.

So ignore what the industry is saying because........................these arent right wing businesses. These are OBAMA donors.


Seems like the CBO disagrees with what you think they're saying. Based on their report.
it doesnt you just like to see what you want to see. The ACA is hurting the economy. Its holding back hiring.


You can stop right there because everything after that is an assumption and not indicitve of reality.

If people are becoming more prosperous by not working, like you just said, how is that the end of prosperity?

Nothing says prosperity like not working. That is the dumbest thing you have ever typed.

So low income people not working but getting more benefits=prosperity in your mind. Should have known that would be your position LOL

What facts do you have to support people being MORE prosperous? Because all the statistics say otherwise.
Median income- DOWN
Labor Force Participation Rate- ALL TIME LOW
Part Time Hiring- All Time HIGH
Consumer Spending- Abysmal
Consumer Confidence-Abysmal

Nothing says prosperous like a bunch of part time workers looking for free healthcare. Welcome to Obamas world, where everyone becomes "rich" by being simultaneously POOR

[Vteckidd]

Since you cant understand , ill dumb it down even further.

Original Article

The new healthcare law will slow economic growth over the next decade, costing the nation about 2.5 million jobs and contributing to a $1 trillion increase in projected deficits, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said in a report released Tuesday.

The nonpartisan agency’s report found the healthcare law’s negative effects on the economy will be “substantially larger” than what it had previously anticipated.

The CBO is now estimating the law will reduce labor force compensation by 1 percent from 2017-2024, twice the reduction it previously had projected.
This will decrease the number of full-time equivalent jobs in 2021 by 2.3 million, the CBO said. It had previously estimated the decrease would be 800,000.

The budget scorekeeper said this decrease would be caused partly by people leaving the workforce in response to lower wages offered by employers and increased insurance coverage through the healthcare law.

The agency also said employer penalties in the law would decrease wages, and part-year workers would be slower to return to the work force because they would seek to retain ObamaCare insurance subsidies.

Your Copy Paste

Congressional Budget Office Report
The estimated reduction stems almost entirely from a net decline in the amount of labor that workers choose to supply, rather than from a net drop in businesses’ demand for labor, so it will appear almost entirely as a reduction in labor force participation and in hours worked relative to what would have occurred otherwise rather than as an increase in unemployment (that is, more workers seeking but not finding jobs) or underemployment (such as part-time workers who would prefer to work more hours per week).


Now, reread it again, and let it sink in...........


I bolded the important parts to help you out.

[.blank cd]

So ignore what the industry is saying....Since they were caught lying about the penalties they were facing, when in reality they weren't, yes. We'll take what the "industry" says with a couple grains of salt.



it doesnt you just like to see what you want to see. The ACA is hurting the economy. Its holding back hiring.I read what the report says, and what you're saying the report says, your interpretation of it, is just simply not in it. Lol. Bottom line.

I can post a link to the actual report if you want.

Not that it'll get read on this forum.


Nothing says prosperity like not working. That is the dumbest thing you have ever typed....Quoted from the great vteckidd. You typed it better. Lol


So low income people not working but getting more benefits=prosperity in your mind. Should have known that would be your position LOL

What facts do you have to support people being MORE prosperous? Because all the statistics say otherwise.
Median income- DOWN
Labor Force Participation Rate- ALL TIME LOW
Part Time Hiring- All Time HIGH
Consumer Spending- Abysmal
Consumer Confidence-Abysmal

Nothing says prosperous like a bunch of part time workers looking for free healthcare. Welcome to Obamas world, where everyone becomes "rich" by being simultaneously POOR

I like how the right refuses to see prosperity as anything except a function of net liquid assets. If only reality was equally as tantalizing.

[ISAtlanta300]

I wouldn't use big words you don't understand.

Aaannnnddddddd the "I'm smarter than you" post, Ladies and Gentleman.

BlankCD! Everyone! Please try the fish!

[Vteckidd]

Since they were caught lying about the penalties they were facing, when in reality they weren't, yes. We'll take what the "industry" says with a couple grains of salt.


I read what the report says, and what you're saying the report says, your interpretation of it, is just simply not in it. Lol. Bottom line.

I can post a link to the actual report if you want.

Not that it'll get read on this forum.

Quoted from the great vteckidd. You typed it better. Lol



I like how the right refuses to see prosperity as anything except a function of net liquid assets. If only reality was equally as tantalizing.

So, you believe people who lose their medical insurance and have to spend more out of pocket for those costs, and then choose to work less so they can get more subsidies from the govt to pay for that hike in insurance costs.............are prosperous?


Its the ENTIRE industry blank, its not Fox News, its some VERY BIG OBAMA donors as well saying that the added cost of the ACA is going to cost jobs , they will have to restructure everything they do.

We are already seeing it, the 40 hour work week is now 30 hours a week. People will lose hours and wages at the cost of their healthcare.

The CBO couldnt be even more clear (and even they are off, itll be MUCH worse). Yet you read the report and you start going off in this tangent about how we shouldnt equate prosperity with liquid assets.

Go tell that to the 6 million families who lost insurance or the person who lost their job because the company is going to hire 2 29 hour a week workers rather than 1 full time so they can not have to provide healthcare.

"Oh sorry, you shouldnt pay your mortgage with net liquid assets"

LOL