K series guys ( well mainly gregg lol)

[h22 jones]

I keep hearing all this k series talk and then i got to thinking . Has a k series won first in any event at import show down? Not just all motor . Im talking about any class?

Boy sure makes me want to go out and spend three times as much as you should on a swap lmfao.

I dont want to hear about who in california is doing what . I want somebody to take there shit to the track around here and win then talk shit or go hide in the bushes (if there is enough room in there with gregg's big ass) lmao.

[big mac]

hahahahah damn lol

[1civic]

Yeah Bitches!!!

B SERIES FTW!!!


http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt292/RUHOLY/281951_180930288639381_100001672323597_464181_5460 80_s.jpg




LOL.............

[big mac]

lol all about the h

[1civic]

No "H" in atlanta taking me down!! "I'm Rick James Bitch"!!!

:taun:

[boosted347]

No "b" in atlanta is taking me down :ninja:

[1civic]

No "b" in atlanta is taking me down :ninja:

Guess you should come to Atlanta with a little money then...:boobies:

[boosted347]

Guess you should come to Atlanta with a little money then...:boobies:

Well damn money is something I dont have :( but you would need slicks and koolaid to hang....maybe :ninja:
But jones' thread does have a very valid point, and im not a honda guy at all so im not bias at all :yes:

[Vteckidd]

yes there has been a few K Series that won the all motor street and pro classes in the southeast.

No turbo Ks that i know of have won anything.

There was a few CRX K Swaps running mid 12s 4-5 years ago that won a few events i entered. one guy was from down south, forgot his name may hve been tony? had a white 88HF with the hood cut and a k20a2 that ran mid to low 12s

but mainly its B Series or H Series for a reason, COST. It costs TOO MUCH to be competitive without sponsors with the K Series. B/H is just that much cheaper..........for now

[Dylan]

K20FTW! :bigok:

[*EFilliated*]

Read my title. Have a nice day :goodjob:


K20FTW! :bigok:

[Dylan]

Read my title. Have a nice day :goodjob:

Lol I would do an h or b swap but I enjoy my ac, cc, ps, abs, etc. so I will just stick to my slow factory equipped k series car.

[Moseley]

I guess driving 150 miles to the track, bolting some slicks on a stock 2.0L w/ cams, and finishing runner up isn't good enough... :taun:

and I'm not so sure about california but up in the NE if you showed up to an event like import showdown with an 11.5 second car you'd be the caboose on the back of the K train.

[Moseley]

Read my title. Have a nice day :goodjob:

yawn

[David88vert]

but mainly its B Series or H Series for a reason, COST. It costs TOO MUCH to be competitive without sponsors with the K Series. B/H is just that much cheaper..........for now

I see all you Honda guys post about cost all the time. I am completely ignorant on these swaps, but I have a question about them.

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor B that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor H that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor K that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

[112480]

I keep hearing all this k series talk and then i got to thinking . Has a k series won first in any event at import show down? Not just all motor . Im talking about any class?

Boy sure makes me want to go out and spend three times as much as you should on a swap lmfao.

I dont want to hear about who in california is doing what . I want somebody to take there shit to the track around here and win then talk shit or go hide in the bushes (if there is enough room in there with gregg's big ass) lmao.

LOL! You know jones, my hands were on fire when i read this, BUT im gonna try to be calm as possible with this(shit talking wise). Mainly because i dont think i'll will be able to make showdown this year. just got to much going on with setting up down here(life, outside of cars) but hey at least i'll be able to make it next year in May and who knows, maybe i can make it this year so we'll have to see, but i SERIOUSLY doubt you will need me there to have fun. u have the other FASTER k series guys too compete/worry about:yes:

I mean what stock car can drive 150+miles to an event, slap some slicks on and run low 12's ALL DAY and slap the street tires back on and drive 150+ miles back home WITH NO ISSUES!!!????????........................ In case i lost you there, its called A K SERIES!!!!!:yes::yes::yes:

And why do you want to start at the bottom? Guys like u and bobby(unlike guys like DARKSTAR and such that HAVE to start at the bottom:yes:) should go straight for the top. i.e this thread should have been titled to Moseley, 05DC5s or/and Stretch. Those are the fast K guys(been shown over and over again) you should address:yes:

And i hate to bring up other regions but the TRUTH of the matter is that if u built 10 h2b etups all making 300whp, u would get CRUSHED if u took them up north or out west by K's:yes: because we down here in the south have always been behind the west and north with the imports. If importshow down went up north or out west, the list of winners would be 95% K series!(in my Obi-Wan voice) search ur feelings jones and know that i speak the truth!:yes:........... or u can just pull up youtube and watch for urself. pull up Honda Day 2010 and 2011 and tell me how many k series allmotor wins u counted then tell me how many h2b's u counted and let me know the results:goodjob:

And u know what, really its no excuse for us to be behind. I used to think it was about money(with the k costing more) but thats bullshit! because even down here in Mobile, these dudes have GOOD PAYING jobs and can afford k builds! but like in ATL and other surrounding SOUTHERN states are just too damn stubborn to do so. I mean really! a fucking dude comes up to me and say "damn man, that k series is nice!, how much it set u back? about 10k? haha.....etc etc" then i ask him "hey dumbass, how many times in the past year or two have u rebuilt ur turbo b or h series?" and he says only 2 or 3" i said "ok so how much did that cost u total?" and you know what he said???????????? NOTHING!! yea, he said nothing!, why? because he knows i was about to make him look like an ass.

Then the allmotor B or H guy will say "well i havent rebuilt mine period and its been running perfect for 3-4 years now" then i say" well thats cool man, what kind of cars have you beat on the street/highway and what quater mile times have u ran??" lol the most i hear is anywhere from 14's-low12's and on the highway they may beat a STOCK cobra......from 10 years ago. lol! Does this mean they cant? of course not, but its highly unlikely! How many guys do u think are out there like u jones, here in the south that actually have a fast h swap and have the knowledge that u have to keep that bitch together for years???????????????

The little TDC allmotor h car that runs low 12's that ppl like to brag on, ALWAYS have issues!! I talk to the owner all the time down here and he himself has told me that! lol! Its not we cant do it(people in the south), but ppl are just to stubborn/ignorant down here to do so and when you back them up in a corner with it, the ONLY defense they have is the k series "cost too much" and then when you ask them how much they've paid in the last 1 or 2 years(on their b or h swap), they shut down! I can understand its a matter of preference with some ppl but MOST guys its not!

I see it everyday jones, here and in ATL! Not everyone has ur knowledge on h's, not everyone has bobby experience on B's. You can build those h2b motors for darkstar and those other guys all you want, but the fact of the matter is they ARE NOT you, meaning when the SMALLEST thing is out of place that can turn into something huge, they will not be able to pick up on it in time. No i'm not saying joey doesnt know anything about h's, i'm sure he does, but he's not u. Just like if i were at the track, moseley or chunky could pick up on things faster than me in k-pro becuase they know it more than i do etc etc.

But as far as ur claim to no K series around here doing numbers(besides moseley), shit, there's really not many k series to show, so of course they're not doing anything. Down here in mobile(import wise) having a keries IS a waste of money, becuase i could build a fucking D series and put it into a 88 HF crx and BUST ASS!!!!! yeah, thats what i'm dealing with down here. lol! V8's are gonna be my main/damn near only competition down here once i get a new clutch:yes:

But have fun at import showdown if i dont see ya there:goodjob:

[112480]

I see all you Honda guys post about cost all the time. I am completely ignorant on these swaps, but I have a question about them.

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor B that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor H that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor K that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

David its simple, b and h's dont cost that much to get in the 12's these days(although its gonna be some money still) and k's can do 12's STOCK ALL DAY LONG!. The truth is to have a 12 sec K car is gonna cost more than a 12 sec b or h setup, BUT!!! here's the thing, with K series prices going DOWN DOWN these days, tis NO LONGER that much more for a STOCK k swap vs a SEMI built b or H setup to run 12's, but the bonus is that the K setup(done right) can run 9's all day long and drive back home whereas a b or h running 9's would have to be trailored and THEY WILL BE FUCKING HIGH STRUNG OUT MOTORS AS WELL!.

Dont let h22jones fool u man, a 300whp h2b would be pushing its limits defiently! i think there's a 350whp H series somewhere in the NORTH but when you find him, ask that guy how long that motor last and how many times he has to rebuild it. thats just one guy by the way and while ur up there, ask the other 20-30 guys who are making 350whp with their K series, how many times they have to rebuild theirs, THEN ask the 380-400whp K series guys(all of these are allmotor numbers by the way) how many times they rebuild theirs.

The whole point is YOU GOT TO PAY TO PLAY! Something i know ur used to hearing. In the honda world, DOWN HERE a lot of guys dont really want to pay to play. Down here the motto seems like its, "try to run the best times for the least money"!! Up north and out west they say the hell with that mentality!

[112480]

up in the NE if you showed up to an event like import showdown with an 11.5 second car you'd be the caboose on the back of the K train.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[boosted347]

Thanks for wasting my life with those short stories greg lol but they both said the exact same thing
1. k cost more
2. A stock k is as fast as a "built" h or b and cost about the same cost
3. Ks are reliable, but so are h&bs when built by intelligent people
4. And finally unfortunately this is the south, not out west or up north, so stay behind the h and bs (in competition sense) until the ks start winning all the events
All in all its up to the owner what they want to do, hell if you wanted to go fast and be reliable shoulda got a v8 :taun: by that I mean how many 11 and 10 sec 4 cylinders wander the street all day everyday, how many v8s?

[DarKStaR]

Gregg, I know alot more than you think I do. I dont express much on here because I like to take in everything I can and learn as much as I can. Take mikes dad for example, I have learned ALOT sitting at the shop listening to him teach me stuff that I had no clue about. Oh and btw who do you think put my bottom end together... ;)

[112480]

Thanks for wasting my life with those short stories greg lol but they both said the exact same thing
1. k cost more
2. A stock k is as fast as a "built" h or b and cost about the same cost
3. Ks are reliable, but so are h&bs when built by intelligent people
4. And finally unfortunately this is the south, not out west or up north, so stay behind the h and bs (in competition sense) until the ks start winning all the events

EXACTLY^^^:goodjob: lol!



All in all its up to the owner what they want to do, hell if you wanted to go fast and be reliable shoulda got a v8 :taun: by that I mean how many 11 and 10 sec 4 cylinders wander the street all day everyday, how many v8s?

lol. thats true, but boosted, know that there are 11/10 sec 4 cylinders are out there!..........lurking:ninja:(not me btw.lol)

[112480]

Gregg, I know alot more than you think I do. I dont express much on here because I like to take in everything I can and learn as much as I can. Take mikes dad for example, I have learned ALOT sitting at the shop listening to him teach me stuff that I had no clue about. Oh and btw who do you think put my bottom end together... ;)

Oh i know you know a lot. I didnt say you didnt, i specifically said just not as much as mike jones. Example, mike jones can reconized a problem faster than you can at the track or the street concerning h motors and sometimes that makes all the difference in saving a motor. Does this means you dont know anything? OF COURSE NOT. Shit, u didnt run a 11.1@400whp in an integra from being dumb:goodjob:

[1civic]

They do sound good, for a Big Block that is.. LOL

http://youtu.be/Jrpp3EZVtlc

[boosted347]

lol. thats true, but boosted, know that there are 11/10 sec 4 cylinders are out there!..........lurking:ninja:(not me btw.lol)

o I know there are lol I know a few boosted ones around here...the all motor thing isnt real big in columbus, to be honest I don tg know of a running k swap here...but then again im not real big in the current scene being away at school :(

[boosted347]

They do sound good, for a Big Block that is.. LOL

http://youtu.be/Jrpp3EZVtlc

Not in the honda thing, but whats a motor/trans setup like that cost?

[David88vert]

David its simple, b and h's dont cost that much to get in the 12's these days(although its gonna be some money still) and k's can do 12's STOCK ALL DAY LONG!. The truth is to have a 12 sec K car is gonna cost more than a 12 sec b or h setup, BUT!!! here's the thing, with K series prices going DOWN DOWN these days, tis NO LONGER that much more for a STOCK k swap vs a SEMI built b or H setup to run 12's, but the bonus is that the K setup(done right) can run 9's all day long and drive back home whereas a b or h running 9's would have to be trailored and THEY WILL BE FUCKING HIGH STRUNG OUT MOTORS AS WELL!.

Thanks for NOT answering my question.

I asked the cost. how much is it to buy a K motor, since a stock swap runs 12's (per your comment above)?
How much to "semi-build" a B or H?

[DarKStaR]

H's depends on if you buy a long block or know where to source the parts at. Long block is around 900, h2b kit 800(new), trans around 500, and the rest depends on which header,exhaust, etc you use. But just that should crack 12s in a decent weight car and decent driver.

[boosted347]

H's depends on if you buy a long block or know where to source the parts at. Long block is around 900, h2b kit 800(new), trans around 500, and the rest depends on which header,exhaust, etc you use. But just that should crack 12s in a decent weight car and decent driver.

Its a 14 second car with the houston driving mod :lmfao:

[DarKStaR]

el oh el

[David88vert]

H's depends on if you buy a long block or know where to source the parts at. Long block is around 900, h2b kit 800(new), trans around 500, and the rest depends on which header,exhaust, etc you use. But just that should crack 12s in a decent weight car and decent driver.

So, basically, you spend asbout $2500 on parts, do the swap, cut some weight, and get into the high 12s.

Or you can spend the same money on a TFS top end kit for a foxbody and run high 11's/low 12's.

What was the point of building a 4cyl Honda? Seems expensive to go so slow.

[DarKStaR]

thats if you have to buy everything, if you already have most parts like trans,exhaust, and can get a better deal on motor and h2b kit(i paid 500 for mine) you wont spend near that. MOST people just go off what they already have instead of selling everything and buying another car they have no clue about and end up spending more money.

[112480]

David i did answer ur question, j didnt give u exact NUMBERS and mainly becauseit varies. i can sit here all day long and say it cost about $8-10k to drop a k motor in a hatch or integra etc etc, but that was the cost 4 years ago and with ALL brand new BIG name parts. Today man, everyone cost is so different its hard to give u an "average" price on things.

Thats all i was saying.

[boosted347]

So 5-8is a rough estimate now days there question answered lol

[112480]

thats if you have to buy everything, if you already have most parts like trans,exhaust, and can get a better deal on motor and h2b kit(i paid 500 for mine) you wont spend near that. MOST people just go off what they already have instead of selling everything and buying another car they have no clue about and end up spending more money.

^^exactly^^^^ So u see david its not that simple as saying "it cost $2500 to do this" it really all depends. And like i said before, with some ppl its just a matter of preference. I mean how hard is it to make a foxbody do 11's??? I would imagine, its pretty damn EASY! That shit is no challange! But ahhhhh...... to get a grocery cart do 11's(espeacially allmotor) and still get 30-40MPG and will ALWAYS be the UNDERDOG in pretty much any race(outside of racing other grocery carts) they have, now THATS A DAMN CHALLENGE!!

[112480]

So 5-8is a rough estimate now days there question answered lol

on what setup?

[boosted347]

A full k swap, if it was 8-10 4 years ago depreciation would put it in this range, thats all new parts minus the engine, not buying used mounts, header, etc...am I close or way off lol
What david means is that for the money it makes no sense to go that route cause buying used parts you can make more power/go faster by other means...but to me its to each their own its what makes the car scene interesting, of everyone had a mustang or camaro it would be boring lol

[DarKStaR]

its all about preference, thats why we are all in this sport. What fun would it be if everyone had the same car? I mean dont get me wrong I have much respect for ANYTHING fast even if its a pinto.

[boosted347]

its all about preference, thats why we are all in this sport. What fun would it be if everyone had the same car? I mean dont get me wrong I have much respect for ANYTHING fast even if its a pinto.
I prefer a sbc gremlin lol

[David88vert]

^^exactly^^^^ So u see david its not that simple as saying "it cost $2500 to do this" it really all depends. And like i said before, with some ppl its just a matter of preference. I mean how hard is it to make a foxbody do 11's??? I would imagine, its pretty damn EASY! That shit is no challange! But ahhhhh...... to get a grocery cart do 11's(espeacially allmotor) and still get 30-40MPG and will ALWAYS be the UNDERDOG in pretty much any race(outside of racing other grocery carts) they have, now THATS A DAMN CHALLENGE!!

I can state that $2500 will give a stock foxbody 350rwhp all motor. It is simple.
Most foxbodys that go that route bolt on an exhaust, some tires, and cheange the rear gear. Most of them run 11's with full weight and interior.
If you take a foxbody that already has some mods, as in the Honda example above (where you reuse parts that you already have), you are looking at foxbodys that run 10's.
Now, why would a performance vehicle worry about mileage, unless they are competing in a class that limits the fuel consumption. I don't think that Honda all-motor drag classes have a limit on fuel consumption or mpg.

[David88vert]

its all about preference, thats why we are all in this sport. What fun would it be if everyone had the same car? I mean dont get me wrong I have much respect for ANYTHING fast even if its a pinto.

Oh, I agree with this.

[boosted347]

I can state that $2500 will give a stock foxbody 350rwhp all motor. It is simple.
Most foxbodys that go that route bolt on an exhaust, some tires, and cheange the rear gear. Most of them run 11's with full weight and interior.
If you take a foxbody that already has some mods, as in the Honda example above (where you reuse parts that you already have), you are looking at foxbodys that run 10's.
Now, why would a performance vehicle worry about mileage, unless they are competing in a class that limits the fuel consumption. I don't think that Honda all-motor drag classes have a limit on fuel consumption or mpg.
QFT but hey some people like 4 cylinders...not my cup of tea :goodjob:

[112480]

I prefer a sbc gremlin lol

In dream land, i perfer a 08' Gallardo built by UGR with thier stg 4 package and challange any, ANY car or BIKE to a race on the street:yes:. lol!

[112480]

QFT but hey some people like 4 cylinders...not my cup of tea :goodjob:

would you pefer everone to have mustangs?? Thousands and thousands of mustangs???

[boosted347]

would you pefer everone to have mustangs?? Thousands and thousands of mustangs???

A full k swap, if it was 8-10 4 years ago depreciation would put it in this range, thats all new parts minus the engine, not buying used mounts, header, etc...am I close or way off lol
What david means is that for the money it makes no sense to go that route cause buying used parts you can make more power/go faster by other means...but to me its to each their own its what makes the car scene interesting, if everyone had a mustang or camaro it would be boring lol

No lol

[boosted347]

In dream land, i perfer a 08' Gallardo built by UGR with thier stg 4 package and challange any, ANY car to a race on the street:yes:. lol!

Ill take this one...400+ whp busa getting reeled in at 200+


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuNX0JQAGZM&feature=player_embedded

[Vteckidd]

I guess driving 150 miles to the track, bolting some slicks on a stock 2.0L w/ cams, and finishing runner up isn't good enough... :taun:

and I'm not so sure about california but up in the NE if you showed up to an event like import showdown with an 11.5 second car you'd be the caboose on the back of the K train.

Jones said winners, not runner ups. And honestly yours is the fastest K series bolt on non built motor car i have ever seen. its freakishly fast for what it is.

Ive beaten and driven MANY K20 bolt on cars that were not that much faster.

Still, your car is a good $3000-4000 MORE than a B series or H2B counterpart. Most people are interested in spending that kind of money, FOR NOW

As far as race standings in the SE, i dont keep up with them nearly as much as i used to, but anyone running Street or PRO class 90% was B series till about 3 years ago when it started being H2Bs, i have seen very few Ks since that point.

[112480]

Ill take this one...400+ whp busa getting reeled in at 200+


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuNX0JQAGZM&feature=player_embedded


LOL! WOW! Just wow! UGR FTMFW!!!!!:yes::goodjob: Listen to that fucking sound of the lambo!!!!

[boosted347]

LOL! WOW! Just wow! UGR FTMFW!!!!!:yes::goodjob: Listen to that fucking sound of the lambo!!!!

Im ready to see these monsters in person at tx2k12 :leghump: this video came about after tx2k11 when jonvon with a sprayed 300 whp busa lost to the UGR cars and brock davidson and shamrock racing were talking shit about how he couldnt ride, his bike didnt make that much power, etc and so shamrock went out and ran him and went 1-1 and was getting reeled in HARD by the car until it let out at *supposedly* 220 lol

[Vteckidd]

I see all you Honda guys post about cost all the time. I am completely ignorant on these swaps, but I have a question about them.

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor B that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor H that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

How much are you talking about, when you build an all motor K that runs 12's? What do you basically have to do to get it there?

not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:

If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels

Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly

H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.

K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.

So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.

[Moseley]

They do sound good, for a Big Block that is.. LOL

http://youtu.be/Jrpp3EZVtlc

Stuff like this is why I can't stand the honda game sometimes. 307 torque at the wheels? these guys are fakes / scammers. It sounds like it shut down at about 8500. and I'll tell you there is not a single K in existence making 350whp below 9000 rpm.

its probably a stock K24 with cams and ITBs, from the looks of how far off that dyno is. realistic numbers are probably 200tq / 240whp.

[112480]

Jones said winners, not runner ups. And honestly yours is the fastest K series bolt on non built motor car i have ever seen. its freakishly fast for what it is.

Ive beaten and driven MANY K20 bolt on cars that were not that much faster.

Still, your car is a good $3000-4000 MORE than a B series or H2B counterpart. Most peopleDOWN HERE IN THE SOUTH are NOT interested in spending that kind of money, FOR NOW

fixed:D

[112480]

Im ready to see these monsters in person at tx2k12 :leghump: this video came about after tx2k11 when jonvon with a sprayed 300 whp busa lost to the UGR cars and brock davidson and shamrock racing were talking shit about how he couldnt ride, his bike didnt make that much power, etc and so shamrock went out and ran him and went 1-1 and was getting reeled in HARD by the car until it let out at *supposedly* 220 lol

shit i'm about to...ahhhhhhh......nevermind....thought about the lambos to much..........

[boosted347]

shit i'm about to...ahhhhhhh......nevermind....thought about the lambos to much..........

its ok it happens to the best of em lol

[Moseley]

I can state that $2500 will give a stock foxbody 350rwhp all motor. It is simple.
Most foxbodys that go that route bolt on an exhaust, some tires, and cheange the rear gear. Most of them run 11's with full weight and interior.
If you take a foxbody that already has some mods, as in the Honda example above (where you reuse parts that you already have), you are looking at foxbodys that run 10's.
Now, why would a performance vehicle worry about mileage, unless they are competing in a class that limits the fuel consumption. I don't think that Honda all-motor drag classes have a limit on fuel consumption or mpg.

Typical assertions that make me LOL.

just because you know how to doesn't mean everyone does. I can't count how many REAL foxbodies I've seen here in GA at commerce with 5k+ dumped into them and they cant get out of the 13.5-14.0 range. It's always been that way. 90% of the people don't know the formula, 10% do.

[112480]

Typical assertions that make me LOL.

just because you know how to doesn't mean everyone does. I can't count how many REAL foxbodies I've seen here in GA at commerce with 5k+ dumped into them and they cant get out of the 13.5-14.0 range. It's always been that way. 90% of the people don't know the formula, 10% do.

And usually the 10% dont have the financial means that the 90% do to make thier build a reality:(

[boosted347]

Typical assertions that make me LOL.

just because you know how to doesn't mean everyone does. I can't count how many REAL foxbodies I've seen here in GA at commerce with 5k+ dumped into them and they cant get out of the 13.5-14.0 range. It's always been that way. 90% of the people don't know the formula, 10% do.

Ha this is true but also goes the other way, you and some others on here know there shit but most people in the honda game dont...its a never ending debate...i know people with boosted civics that cant break a 13.9 and all motor cars with a good bit of money in em that couldnt break 14.0s its all a matter of setup when it comes to drag racing...now roll racing is different lol

[Moseley]

not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:

If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels

Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly

H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.

K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.

So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.

Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psi

[Moseley]

Not to mention you have...

coil packs
timing chain
variable cam
roller rockers
full and proper block girdle

about a dozen different tranny choices

all OEM

[Vteckidd]

Thanks for NOT answering my question.

I asked the cost. how much is it to buy a K motor, since a stock swap runs 12's (per your comment above)?
How much to "semi-build" a B or H?

The motors STILL cost $4000+ for a STOCK swap. Type-R motor $5000+. Thats just an engine delivered to your door. Then you gotta factor in mount kit, KPRO, shifter kit, shifter cables, water pump housing mod, fuel system, wiring harness, axles, blah blah blah

Gregg likes to think his swap cost him nothing , and he does like to act like Moselys car is a super cheap setup. Its not complicated, but its not cheap either. Regardless if you do the work yourself or not, their cars have more money in them than they will admit.

As stated before, H2B will rival almost anything in terms of power, and cost.

What NO ONE has done is take the H23 OEM motor, done cams and a header/intake manifold and paired it with a 4.9 B16 Tranny then raced someone like Mosely. Id be willing to bet money on the H car in that scenario all driving being equal, and even if it lost it would still be FAR CHEAPER than a K 20 R swapped hatch

[Vteckidd]

Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psi

that wasnt the question. the question wasnt "whats the best platform to go all motor first then boost". it was "why arent there tons of K Swapped hatches roaming around"

:P

Agreed i had a supercharged "R" motor. I would have done a B20 GE block rods , pistons, and been good for 800whp (Supercharger wouldnt have made that) and still been cheaper than a K series. But i admit the K Series is a stout motor for what you get.

you invest money in the beginning to be able to do more. Like my CRX NEVER would have taken any shot of nitrous, your "stock" K series makes more power than my CRX and can take 75-100 shot with ease. Mine would have blown up.

Your "R" > My "R"

[112480]

Very honest post. yes I would agree that on average a K is 2-3K more than the others, to make similar power. the difference is the platform that you have to build on from that point. nitrous, SC, or boost. none of the 220-230whp Bs or Hs could handle them well, but the stock K can handle 20psi

:goodjob:

[Moseley]

Ha this is true but also goes the other way, you and some others on here know there shit but most people in the honda game dont...its a never ending debate...i know people with boosted civics that cant break a 13.9 and all motor cars with a good bit of money in em that couldnt break 14.0s its all a matter of setup when it comes to drag racing...now roll racing is different lol

yeah the 90% / 10% rule doesn't apply to mustangs only. it's the same way regardless of car. Anyone who knows Meng with the red SRT-4... it's a perfect example. I bet there's 50 SRT-4s in ATL with more money into them that are nowhere near as fast as his.

[Vteckidd]

Not to mention you have...

coil packs
timing chain
variable cam
roller rockers
full and proper block girdle

about a dozen different tranny choices

all OEM
id prob take the B Series 4.78 over the 6 speed k20R tranny. But i really dont know enough about it i just know the 4.78 is $800-1000 all day :P

the K Series engine is vastly superior to the B in tech, that is without question and i agree 100%.

[112480]

Not to mention you have...

coil packs
timing chain
variable cam
roller rockers
full and proper block girdle

about a dozen different tranny choices

all OEM
:yes::yes::yes:

[112480]

id prob take the B Series 4.78 over the 6 speed k20R tranny. But i really dont know enough about it i just know the 4.78 is $800-1000 all day :P

the K Series engine is vastly superior to the B in tech, that is without question and i agree 100%.

used k series R tranny can be had for $1200 in very good condition:goodjob:

[boosted347]

yeah the 90% / 10% rule doesn't apply to mustangs only. it's the same way regardless of car. Anyone who knows Meng with the red SRT-4... it's a perfect example. I bet there's 50 SRT-4s in ATL with more money into them that are nowhere near as fast as his.
Yea that car rolls the fuck out if its the same one, i remember him from spring showdown lol...im ready for showdown to get here or some sort of track outing...im ready to get mine back on the track :ninja:

[boosted347]

used k series R tranny can be had for $1200 in very good condition:goodjob:

I wish my trans was $800-$1200 :cry:

[112480]

And mike i was being honest about me and moseley k swap not costing that much. but it semms that you have always been mad at that fact. I didnt say ALL k builds are cheap but not ALL of them are expensive either.

[Vteckidd]

used k series R tranny can be had for $1200 in very good condition:goodjob:

well, all ill say is .........

Luis with his 4.9?? "R" tranny or whatever it was and 230whp vs my 200whp 4.4 B 16 tranny was very close. I never raced him with the 4.9, but im pretty sure he would not have won by much if at all.

By the time i had the 4.9 i was Supercharged and his car was down. We were even for all intensive purposes except for the gearing differences.

So id still take my $3500 ITR setup over the $6000-8000 K setup , although Mose runs a full second faster than me at the track :)

[Vteckidd]

And mike i was being honest about me and moseley k swap not costing that much. but it semms that you have always been mad at that fact. I didnt say ALL k builds are cheap but not ALL of them are expensive either.

not mad at all, i own a J32 i have moved on from the 4 cylinders so i have no dog in this fight :P

Im pointing out the inconsistencies in your statements. The facts of the matter are that you have at LEAST $6000+ in your car, whether you will admit it or not. I dont care what stories you will tell about how you sold this or traded sexual favors for that etc etc etc :)

FACTS ARE FACTS. Just because you bought a $1200 tranny for $200 doesnt mean ALL $1200 trannys are $200. If they were, THEYD BE $200.

I dont know how much LUIS put into his car as he was the original owner, and im sure Mose got a good deal on it when he acquired it. Doesnt matter. A k20R motor costs XXXX and a K20 "R" tranny costs XXXX, and a SSR header costs XXXX, Krpo costs XXXX etc.

So when talking to people and trying to explain the cost of something, you should give the AVERAGE numbers that a consumer should expect to pay. you dont do that, you act like its cheap just because you found some magical junk yard with cheap prices.

Just because i bought a 92 Civic Hatch for $300 once doesnt mean all 92 civic EGs are worth $300. Stop pretending they are :)

[David88vert]

not gonna read the book that Greg posted but the simple answer is:

If we assume the same chassis for all swaps, and that chassis being a 92-95 Civic CX that we will assume already has some sort of coilovers, wheels. all stock body panels

Id basically say the best option B Series wise is and ITR engine for simplicity and compression, with header, intake manny, TB. The magic would be in the 4.7 JDM FD. But at that point youre prob looking at a $4000-5000 investment. B Series to run 12s is not easy with a stock motor and bolt ons. not for most people and anywone that disagress can feel free to go to ANY test an tune night and tell me how many people runs 12s on street tires. Most bolt on B Series without buulding the motor are going to max out around 200whp/140 TQ. SOME make more, some make less. But thats the average output. Now some people will say LS BLOCK for $100, VTEC head for $600, rods, pistons, cams etc and you can prob put together a 210-220whp motor at BEST. But most people cant build their own motor, and even then rods and pistons is $1000 with bearings, headstuds, then you have machine work, it gets costly

H Series youll gain .4L (1,8L vs 2.2) and USUALLY 10-15whp, sometimes more. Pair that with the B Series tranny through the stuff they have available to do that, and your already in a better , more powerful setup. Between longblock, tranny, mount kit, axles, bolt ons, probably around $4000-5000 investment. but youll make 20-30 more TQ and 10-15whp AVERAGE.

K Series, $6000-8000 investment once you factor in KPRO $1000, mount kit, swap, return fuel system, and all the other little odds and ends you have to buy. Average K20 makes 210whp/140-150TQ. SOME make more, like Evans and Moselys, some make less, like Josh Greens.

So the BEST BET is to run H2B IMO, its superior in power, cost, affordability.



Ok, so it seems like $4K is the real number.
That's what I was looking for. Now, figure the chassis and those coilovers, add real tires, and you have $6k in a car that runs high 12's - and we aren't figuring in any cost of labor.

[Vteckidd]

Ok, so it seems like $4K is the real number.
That's what I was looking for. Now, figure the chassis and those coilovers, add real tires, and you have $6k in a car that runs high 12's - and we aren't figuring in any cost of labor.

correct. Youre almost better off buying a car already swapped, its far cheaper. you can pick up GSR swapped EGs for prob $4500-5000 range. then go from there.

but yes, to run "12"s is not "cheap" by any means. Some people think that is incredibly slow, but id like to point out that a "high 12s" honda EG is prob fast enough to outrun almost ANYTHING stop light to stop light on the street. youll scare a lot of cars making 210-220whp on the street in a 2000lb chassis

[David88vert]

Typical assertions that make me LOL.

just because you know how to doesn't mean everyone does. I can't count how many REAL foxbodies I've seen here in GA at commerce with 5k+ dumped into them and they cant get out of the 13.5-14.0 range. It's always been that way. 90% of the people don't know the formula, 10% do.

I can't count how many foxbodies run 9's or better, but I can count how many Honda's do (I count on my fingers).

You can get a really clean, full weight foxbody for $6K that already has a H/C/I, and all you need to do is bolt on slicks, and go 11s with ease. Not a gutted, non-AC economy car.
I know one guy who just changed his rear gear, added slick and spray on his coupe, left everything stock, and was running 11.60s at SDR and Commerce just a few months ago. Granted, the tranny will fail sometime in the near future, but for $3K total in it (buying the car, and adding spray and slicks), he ran 12.9 on just motor.

BTW - my car has a lot more than $5K in it, and it's a slow car. I didn't worry about the cost, and I do understand that there are those that like the 4cyl Civics, and just want to build them. I'm not saying not to, just saying that it is not a cheap option. I do find it funny how they start talking about saving gas by getting better mpg, when they spent all they saved on building the car.

[David88vert]

correct. Youre almost better off buying a car already swapped, its far cheaper. you can pick up GSR swapped EGs for prob $4500-5000 range. then go from there.

but yes, to run "12"s is not "cheap" by any means. Some people think that is incredibly slow, but id like to point out that a "high 12s" honda EG is prob fast enough to outrun almost ANYTHING stop light to stop light on the street. youll scare a lot of cars making 210-220whp on the street in a 2000lb chassis

True, but you are running a gutted car. Those same people that gut them say that running a bike isn't fair, but it is an all motor 4cyl making a lot less power, but has less weight also. It's hypocritical.

[David88vert]

I wish my trans was $800-$1200 :cry:

Me too. I can't run a stock transmission. It will blow up.

[Vteckidd]

True, but you are running a gutted car. Those same people that gut them say that running a bike isn't fair, but it is an all motor 4cyl making a lot less power, but has less weight also. It's hypocritical.

thats the price of making a 4 cylinder commuter car "fast" :)

there is something to be said for driving a econobox CRX with a 9500RPM rev limiter, with no AC and PS. I would never drive it everyday, but its a totally different experience.

Ill say this, i drove my buddies Cammed/exhaust/headers GTO the other day. 2006 6.0L. The TQ was awesome, the car, was pile of garbage. The shifter was horrible, the trans felt sloppy, the interior was disgusting. its just so marginal in every sense of the word.

my 2005 TL makes 50% the power, but is much more "fun" to drive than his pig.

So if your argument is that it costs less to go faster with a car that already has most likely double or triple the engine size, AND is RWD, then i think almost everyone will agree with you. But not everyone wants to drive 80s Mustangs either (i totally would :) )

If your only goal is to go FAST, why choose a honda EVER? But thats not most peoples goal. Most people that own hondas like their styling, price, appeal, gas mileage, and are conforming to the tuner crowd. So you work with whatcha got ;)

[boosted347]

correct. Youre almost better off buying a car already swapped, its far cheaper. you can pick up GSR swapped EGs for prob $4500-5000 range. then go from there.

but yes, to run "12"s is not "cheap" by any means. Some people think that is incredibly slow, but id like to point out that a "high 12s" honda EG is prob fast enough to outrun almost ANYTHING stop light to stop light on the street. youll scare a lot of cars making 210-220whp on the street in a 2000lb chassis
I wouldnt go that far man, now is a high 12 sec honda gonna beat a stock mustang, camaro, etc yes is a high 12 sec honda gonna beat an equal valued "built" v8 no...this is comparing apples to oranges, 90% of honda guys (not saying specifically you) whine and bitch about v8s calling them out, when realistically most of the k swap hondas have more money in them the majority of v8 street cars, they always play the well its a 4 cylinder or its a stock k swap and so on and so forth, but its still, like you said, got alot of money in it. Hell until i upgraded my turbo my car didnt even have 6-8k in it...not that it matters but mod for mod v8s outperform i4s its the simple truth.

[boosted347]

Me too. I can't run a stock transmission. It will blow up.

I blew mine up lol it was fun riding around in 4th only :yes: but now its all fixed...ive determined i need to stop adding weight to my car, im going the wrong way :no:

[Vteckidd]

i dont know where you find your foxbodys from but anything worth its salt is $7000+ and then some.

$8000 runs mid 12s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2584323597.html

$10000
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2556573459.html

$6500 and looks like hell, but supercharged
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2533114508.html

$5500 and prob runs 14s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2516992546.html

$4500 runs 14s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/cto/2527514578.html

I mean theres good deals out there, and im sure with nitrous youll prob pull decent times. But i dont know if i want to own a seriously 20 year old FORD and try to make it fast for CHEAP :P

[boosted347]

i dont know where you find your foxbodys from but anything worth its salt is $7000+ and then some.

$8000 runs mid 12s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2584323597.html

$10000
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2556573459.html

$6500 and looks like hell, but supercharged
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2533114508.html

$5500 and prob runs 14s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/2516992546.html

$4500 runs 14s
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/cto/2527514578.html

I mean theres good deals out there, and im sure with nitrous youll prob pull decent times. But i dont know if i want to own a seriously 20 year old FORD and try to make it fast for CHEAP :P

Those are all excessively overpriced cars....the only one worth the price is the supercharged one and it looks like hell....hell my car isnt that fast but if that one sells for 10k my car is worth about 30k...you can pick up a good HCI fox, its gonna be a hatch, for 4k.

[Vteckidd]

I wouldnt go that far man, now is a high 12 sec honda gonna beat a stock mustang, camaro, etc yes is a high 12 sec honda gonna beat an equal valued "built" v8 no...this is comparing apples to oranges, 90% of honda guys (not saying specifically you) whine and bitch about v8s calling them out, when realistically most of the k swap hondas have more money in them the majority of v8 street cars, they always play the well its a 4 cylinder or its a stock k swap and so on and so forth, but its still, like you said, got alot of money in it. Hell until i upgraded my turbo my car didnt even have 6-8k in it...not that it matters but mod for mod v8s outperform i4s its the simple truth.

I made a generic statement. Making 210-220whp in a 2000lb EG is about fast enough to outrun almost anything light to light. did i say it will beat every car? nope.

But g37s, STI, EVO, old men in C6 base models, c5 Z06, 03 Cobras, foxbodies, NSX, S2000, blah blah blah i would stack moselys car up agaisnt any of them if he were sitting at a stop light and one of those rolled up.

Now of course if someones modded AWD EVO rolls up making 500whp, obviously that is not the average car. But i can tell you that RARELY happens. MOST people that flex at a stoplight are average joes, not the seasoned track star.


Now as far as the v8 vs 4 cylinder.....2 totally different cars, and i wouldnt bitch if 1 called me out. I wouldnt race for money. but id race it.

Id bet most hondas have more money IN THEM when compared to the price of the car. I mean a C6 Z06 can have $10,000 in mods, but its a $50,000 car. A 92 civic is worth $1500, and most guys have prob at least $5000-6000 in them if they are any type of fast lol. thats well known.

To most people its an ego thing, they dont want to say "i have $12,000 in my EG, and it runs 12s" because id much rather have a $12000 C5 vette that runs 14s, than a 12000 Honda civic haha

[Vteckidd]

Those are all excessively overpriced cars....the only one worth the price is the supercharged one and it looks like hell....hell my car isnt that fast but if that one sells for 10k my car is worth about 30k...you can pick up a good HCI fox, its gonna be a hatch, for 4k.

are they that cheap really? Fox bodys are like EG hatches now, so hard to find NOT beat up that they pull a high price if well taken care of. its almost to the point that stock ones are worth more than highly modded ones

[boosted347]

I made a generic statement. Making 210-220whp in a 2000lb EG is about fast enough to outrun almost anything light to light. did i say it will beat every car? nope.

But g37s, STI, EVO, old men in C6 base models, c5 Z06, 03 Cobras, foxbodies, NSX, S2000, blah blah blah i would stack moselys car up agaisnt any of them if he were sitting at a stop light and one of those rolled up.

Now of course if someones modded AWD EVO rolls up making 500whp, obviously that is not the average car. But i can tell you that RARELY happens. MOST people that flex at a stoplight are average joes, not the seasoned track star.


Now as far as the v8 vs 4 cylinder.....2 totally different cars, and i wouldnt bitch if 1 called me out. I wouldnt race for money. but id race it.

Id bet most hondas have more money IN THEM when compared to the price of the car. I mean a C6 Z06 can have $10,000 in mods, but its a $50,000 car. A 92 civic is worth $1500, and most guys have prob at least $5000-6000 in them if they are any type of fast lol. thats well known.

To most people its an ego thing, they dont want to say "i have $12,000 in my EG, and it runs 12s" because id much rather have a $12000 C5 vette that runs 14s, than a 12000 Honda civic haha

Yea i feel ya, im just saying most people dont buy a g35 to go fast, and again you are comparing a $6000 swapped car that weighs 2400 lbs to a bonestock car (granted they may cost more but thats a different argument) if you add 6k to the c6, c5z, 03 cobra, etc it would be a different story, you cant get off comparing a stock car to a car that has $1000s in mods, regardless if its a stock motor swapped into another car...and again i didnt say you, moseley is good about running v8s to, bobby is the main culprit of this bitching and whining lol. And yea its always an ego thing if it relates to cars at all lol to each their own though i appreciate anything fast regardless of the badges on it or the number of cylinders :goodjob:

[boosted347]

are they that cheap really? Fox bodys are like EG hatches now, so hard to find NOT beat up that they pull a high price if well taken care of. its almost to the point that stock ones are worth more than highly modded ones

Yea my friend sold his fox with a 306, Edelbrock intake, Aluminum SVO heads, so on and so forth ran high high 12s on drs for 5k and that was fresh paint, 5 lug conversion, and a hatch...the unmolested foxes are almost impossible to find lol but david would be the one to talk to about foxes since he has more experience with them, im an sn95 guy :yes:

[Vteckidd]

My point is that MOST cars on the road arent modded. Most cars are stock, or lightly modded (exhaust, intake). So, if someone thinks a 12 second Honda is "SLOW" , all im saying is that there are FEW cars on the road that will beat it. Its fast enough to hang with any of the cars l listed. or scare them (IE be .5-1 car to their back bumper).

[112480]

Mike you can contact Madman7887 on k20a.org and he will sell you a k-pro for $800shipped all day long, not $1000. hell i got mine from him a WHILE ago for $650shipped cause i turned him onto another guy who wanted one. And u can get k24 blocks for $200-400 now. Hell my buddy lamar(91s13) got his whole k24a1 motor for $150!!. drop a $5-600(fully assembled) k20a2 head on there plus a $600 type s trans and there u go. for the motor and trans ur looking at $1600 AT THE MOST!, for lamar it would be $1250 at the MOST, then add $7-800 for k-pro! etc etc etc. I got brand new Hybrid mounts retailed at $500+shipping for $300shipped from P2R because they were getting rid of some stuff. You find deals like that ALL the time!

So please mike, stop telling these guys false information on the price of k series parts in 2011! I keep telling you this is NOT 2004 anymore where a k swap cost u $10k to put into a 92 eg hatch!

[1civic]

cant speak for the kids now, but i built a honda because i was sick of the mustang hipe.. when i came out people knew the car.. not much changed because my cars can run light to light against most any street cars.. been that way for years.. never cared for numbers, never cared to brag.. but since ia ive learn the forum crap, if you take my ego online to heart than i lol at you..

back on topic now

b series is the best bang for your buk..

end of story!!

[David88vert]

there is something to be said for driving a econobox CRX with a 9500RPM rev limiter, with no AC and PS. I would never drive it everyday, but its a totally different experience.


You just made the argument for getting a bike instead.

Has the same lack of creature comforts, has the same 4cyl (but makes less power), you cut weight in the Civic to try to get down towards the weight of a bike, the bike revs higher, and the bike is more reliable, and the bike gets better gas mileage.
Take an old CRR929 - fits the above. Don't launch it at the track, shift early and smooth, and you will still run low 11s - faster than a 12.9 sec Civic by far.

[David88vert]

i dont know where you find your foxbodys from but anything worth its salt is $7000+ and then some.

I mean theres good deals out there, and im sure with nitrous youll prob pull decent times. But i dont know if i want to own a seriously 20 year old FORD and try to make it fast for CHEAP :P

Mine was 38K miles, supercharged, and was only $6K.
I see them all the time.

I know of an almost completely stock foxbody coupe that runs 11.6 on spray and slicks. Everything is stock but the tires and torque convertor, and he has less than $3000 in his whole setup. Car is cleaner than 95% of the hatches that you see run high 12s.

[David88vert]

b series is the best bang for your buk..

end of story!!

Bikes are the best bang for your buck. True end of story.

[Moseley]

This thread is funny

seems like everyone has valid points... kudos to h22_jones for stirring shit up enough to create a 5 page thread in less than 1 day :crazy:

[boosted347]

This thread is funny

seems like everyone has valid points... kudos to h22_jones for stirring shit up enough to create a 5 page thread in less than 1 day :crazy:
This :goodjob: and for a change its not a my car is this fast its actual car talk.......whats happening to the kills forum :screwy:

[1civic]

fuck a bike, i can ride 4 deep in my turd, a/c is an option, but p/s was not.. ;)

[boosted347]

fuck a bike, i can ride 4 deep in my turd, a/c is an option, but p/s was not.. ;)

No ps...not a street car :taun: you can fit 4 on a bike....:ninja: build a custom side cart lol

[David88vert]

fuck a bike, i can ride 4 deep in my turd, a/c is an option, but p/s was not.. ;)
We can ride 4 deep, you ain't got nothing on bikes!


No ps...not a street car :taun: you can fit 4 on a bike....:ninja: build a custom side cart lol
No need to....



http://thehunterbug.com/images/VietnamTrip29.JPG

[boosted347]

We can ride 4 deep, you ain't got nothing on bikes!


No need to....



http://thehunterbug.com/images/VietnamTrip29.JPG

Lulz :thinking::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[1civic]

thats a funny pic, new way to car pool, and also save the planet..

on a side note, do we even have a k series that will compete in Nov?

[boosted347]

moseley im sure

[1civic]

im not worried about him, slick for slicks be a good run, but anyone else? LOL

[boosted347]

me, im bringing my k swapped mustang down :ninja: since k is the way :lmao:

[David88vert]

me, im bringing my k swapped mustang down :ninja: since k is the way :lmao:

Me too. I have a K-swp under my hood, but i can't open the hood because my hood latch is broken. I have a gear drive also on the car. I know that it sounds like it has a supercharger, but that's really just a gear drive. Can I run in the all motor class with you?

[Vteckidd]

You just made the argument for getting a bike instead.

Has the same lack of creature comforts, has the same 4cyl (but makes less power), you cut weight in the Civic to try to get down towards the weight of a bike, the bike revs higher, and the bike is more reliable, and the bike gets better gas mileage.
Take an old CRR929 - fits the above. Don't launch it at the track, shift early and smooth, and you will still run low 11s - faster than a 12.9 sec Civic by far.
youre not arguing with me haha


but you cant compare a bike to a car. I love my 600 GSXR, fastest thing ive ever owned :)

[boosted347]

Me too. I have a K-swp under my hood, but i can't open the hood because my hood latch is broken. I have a gear drive also on the car. I know that it sounds like it has a supercharger, but that's really just a gear drive. Can I run in the all motor class with you?

Yea but im runnin all motor pro cause i need slicks to hook with all my tq :ninja: i wish they would let me compete in rwd on a serious note...thats the only thing i hate about these showdown events, they are afraid to let v8s run with the "imports", yes i understand my car is not an import but they dont let import v8s compete either...go to a different say MCE track day and the imports can compete...no fair :cry:

[1civic]

You should come regardless, run TnT....:goodjob:

[boosted347]

You should come regardless, run TnT....:goodjob:

O i am lol i get to be on slicks in that to...then gonna sell the car lol :lmfao: :ninja: gotta get into something faster...something that gets in the 12s :cry:

[Vteckidd]

Mike you can contact Madman7887 on k20a.org and he will sell you a k-pro for $800shipped all day long, not $1000. hell i got mine from him a WHILE ago for $650shipped cause i turned him onto another guy who wanted one. And u can get k24 blocks for $200-400 now. Hell my buddy lamar(91s13) got his whole k24a1 motor for $150!!. drop a $5-600(fully assembled) k20a2 head on there plus a $600 type s trans and there u go. for the motor and trans ur looking at $1600 AT THE MOST!, for lamar it would be $1250 at the MOST, then add $7-800 for k-pro! etc etc etc. I got brand new Hybrid mounts retailed at $500+shipping for $300shipped from P2R because they were getting rid of some stuff. You find deals like that ALL the time!

you just dont understand. Just because you have the time to browse the forum and find deals of the year is a moot point. You forget i had a K Series car, and i have infinite hook ups when it comes to parts, and its not anywhere near as cheap as you say it is.

A K SERIES WILL COST THE AVERAGE CONSUMER FAR MORE and you are acting like all a k20 needs is mounts and install. youre missing about 90% of the other stuff to swap it in and you know it.

K20A2 Swap from reputable seller $4000 PLUS SHIPPING
http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30015

$800 for KPRO if you have the OEM ecu, if not, $1000+

Mount kit-$400-500

Shifter box for EG $120-130

Shifter kit-$120-130

Adapter engine harness -$400-500

Return fuel system (rail, fittings, etc)-$200-400

karcepts AC and PS removal kit if you want to close your hood-$200
http://compare.ebay.com/like/260625819072?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y

Hybrid racing clutch line, fan switch, axles, inline fuel filter etc- $500

youre forgetting about the aftermarket radiator you have to have because you cant run a stock radiator with a K Series $200-300, the thermostat housing, the axles, the swap header cause stock wont work, slim fan, etc etc etc etc etc

So i really dont care what you CLAIM, its far more expensive than what you THINK it costs. And i guarantee if you add everything youve spent up it totals out far more than you think.

Here, compare.

http://www.hybrid-racing.com/tech/k-series-swap-parts-list/

So it may not cost $8000 or 7k or 10, but its far more than $2000-3000 like you are acting. And if you somehow pieced together a k24 built motor with valvetrain , cams, rods, pistons, machine work, bearings, header, intake manny, tb, trans, clutch, flywheel, kpro for some magical low number....you cant recommend that to people. Because you got 1 off deals that wont always be there. just cause YOU got a DEAL doesnt mean everyone else can too.



So please mike, stop telling these guys false information on the price of k series parts in 2011! I keep telling you this is NOT 2004 anymore where a k swap cost u $10k to put into a 92 eg hatch!

never said 10k, i said $6000-8000, which i stick by

[1civic]

O i am lol i get to be on slicks in that to...then gonna sell the car lol :lmfao: :ninja: gotta get into something faster...something that gets in the 12s :cry:

I got just the car for you!! :boobies:

[Black4DrEK]

you just dont understand. Just because you have the time to browse the forum and find deals of the year is a moot point. You forget i had a K Series car, and i have infinite hook ups when it comes to parts, and its not anywhere near as cheap as you say it is.

A K SERIES WILL COST THE AVERAGE CONSUMER FAR MORE and you are acting like all a k20 needs is mounts and install. youre missing about 90% of the other stuff to swap it in and you know it.

K20A2 Swap from reputable seller $4000 PLUS SHIPPING
http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30015

$800 for KPRO if you have the OEM ecu, if not, $1000+

Mount kit-$400-500

Shifter box for EG $120-130

Shifter kit-$120-130

Adapter engine harness -$400-500

Return fuel system (rail, fittings, etc)-$200-400

karcepts AC and PS removal kit if you want to close your hood-$200
http://compare.ebay.com/like/260625819072?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y

Hybrid racing clutch line, fan switch, axles, inline fuel filter etc- $500

youre forgetting about the aftermarket radiator you have to have because you cant run a stock radiator with a K Series $200-300, the thermostat housing, the axles, the swap header cause stock wont work, slim fan, etc etc etc etc etc

So i really dont care what you CLAIM, its far more expensive than what you THINK it costs. And i guarantee if you add everything youve spent up it totals out far more than you think.

Here, compare.

http://www.hybrid-racing.com/tech/k-series-swap-parts-list/

So it may not cost $8000 or 7k or 10, but its far more than $2000-3000 like you are acting. And if you somehow pieced together a k24 built motor with valvetrain , cams, rods, pistons, machine work, bearings, header, intake manny, tb, trans, clutch, flywheel, kpro for some magical low number....you cant recommend that to people. Because you got 1 off deals that wont always be there. just cause YOU got a DEAL doesnt mean everyone else can too.




never said 10k, i said $6000-8000, which i stick by



OUCH... I was gonna say He missed out alot of parts... .HAHA

[Vteckidd]

its gregg he doesnt want to say he has $10,000 in a car that possibly could get beat by a less powerful and costly car.

I mean he isnt even factoring in his chassis which has carbon fiber tail gate, hood, wheels, coilovers, exhaust, suspension pieces, duckbill etc.

[k_killaGSR]

you just dont understand. Just because you have the time to browse the forum and find deals of the year is a moot point. You forget i had a K Series car, and i have infinite hook ups when it comes to parts, and its not anywhere near as cheap as you say it is.

A K SERIES WILL COST THE AVERAGE CONSUMER FAR MORE and you are acting like all a k20 needs is mounts and install. youre missing about 90% of the other stuff to swap it in and you know it.

K20A2 Swap from reputable seller $4000 PLUS SHIPPING
http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30015

$800 for KPRO if you have the OEM ecu, if not, $1000+

Mount kit-$400-500

Shifter box for EG $120-130

Shifter kit-$120-130

Adapter engine harness -$400-500

Return fuel system (rail, fittings, etc)-$200-400

karcepts AC and PS removal kit if you want to close your hood-$200
http://compare.ebay.com/like/260625819072?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y

Hybrid racing clutch line, fan switch, axles, inline fuel filter etc- $500

youre forgetting about the aftermarket radiator you have to have because you cant run a stock radiator with a K Series $200-300, the thermostat housing, the axles, the swap header cause stock wont work, slim fan, etc etc etc etc etc

So i really dont care what you CLAIM, its far more expensive than what you THINK it costs. And i guarantee if you add everything youve spent up it totals out far more than you think.

Here, compare.

http://www.hybrid-racing.com/tech/k-series-swap-parts-list/

So it may not cost $8000 or 7k or 10, but its far more than $2000-3000 like you are acting. And if you somehow pieced together a k24 built motor with valvetrain , cams, rods, pistons, machine work, bearings, header, intake manny, tb, trans, clutch, flywheel, kpro for some magical low number....you cant recommend that to people. Because you got 1 off deals that wont always be there. just cause YOU got a DEAL doesnt mean everyone else can too.




never said 10k, i said $6000-8000, which i stick by

you dont "need" an aftermarket radiator i believe karcepts has a kit where you can just mount your half sized radiator on the other side. K is more expensive but ALL MOTOR it dominates B and H. fastest h2b on the east coast is randy running 10.5 in a street car he is out of MD while all the K cars in his class are running 10.2-10.3's. K series is just a superior motor when it comes to all motor but you have to pay to play. mosley and some other guy (srry cant remember your screen name lol) stated it earlier which is if these h2b's and B's around here would go up north they would get devoured by K's which is true.

[h22 jones]

I figured it up we have 6,000 in my dads car thats swap car and all. Gregg i have also drove to many track events swapped slicks raced and drove home. That motor was build going on four years ago , over 30,000 miles and has had three different heads with two different sets of cams ( making more power each time). It still pulls the same vacuum as it did the day it was built so dont preach to me about dependability . I like mosely car and i take nothing away from it but i promise you it is no more dependable then mine . Hell i just drove it 2.5 hours put it on the dyno and turned around and drove it home . Stop hanging on moselys k series nuts and prove something yourself . Mosely has ran a 12.2 in the quarter while ive ran a 12.3 . The difference i bet money my car weighs at least 300 pounds more then his if not 400. Mosely it weighs 2,480 pounds with me in it if you want to compare lol.

David thats right i dont stripp my cars and its not a price you have to pay just most do . Sure the si would go faster 300 pounds lighter but then again it would go faster with a h2b kit .

Mosely dont chime in you done gave away the answer but im sure he still want get . Gregg if you can tell me the one reason ( and yes there is only one reason ) the k series will dominate when taken to a certain level ill give you one rep. My bet is you dont even know why your motor is superior lol.

Gregg since you posted it show me this trail of k series street cars (all motor) that run nines and drive home ? Dont happen only in your dreams . The damn pepsie car is running the fastest times in the street car class and its a sponsered car made for the track . If has broke nines its barely and last time i checked it hasnt. I try to teach you something but you stay in your 400hp k series dream world lmao. The simple fact is at our level of racing even the b series can compete because nobody has taken it to another level and that has been proven by disko monkey . Now he can only get so light and only rev so high . Id love to see that car make a high ten second pass but i dont see and i also dont see it staying together. You just cant rev a motor to 10,000 and drive it everyday it will not stay together not even the almighty k.

Honestly there is no more money in my new motor as the motor in my dads si hatch just a different combination of parts. Lets see crower h23 rods cost the same as crower f23 rods but i got more stroke . Hell you can actually get pro 3 cams cheaper then pro 2 cams like i said motors cost the same thing just different combination of parts.

For mike well i got a 4.9 diff ,with a b16 1st 2nd and 3rd gear ,gsr 4 ,ls 5 lol all carbon syncros with lsd. I got a tranny for your ass hell i built my tranny for i ever bought parts for my motor lol.

[h22 jones]

david i build hondas for one reason because thats what i work on and i run across parts for nothing and i mean nothing . If it wasnt for that i wouldnt build a car at all . hell when i say we got 6,000 in my dads whole car thats just putting a cash figure on it . After trading and swapping ive actually made money off that car and have it for free but like mike said im trying to put a reality figure on it . There is no way no matter what gregg says that he has less then 10,000 in his car and id beat more like 15,000. If the parts wasnt exspensive enough dropping it off at a shop and paying to have the motor built and installed im sure ends up between 2,000-3,000 not that i own a shop or anything .

[h22 jones]

Kills forum is dead as hell and i get a 5 page thread going in one day with no reps lol. Were is my rep gregg you know you love me lol.

Mike if i didnt have so damn many performance parts laying around my dad has been begging me to see how much we can make on a stock h23 motor. I think all stock internals including stock cams i cna make 250 not saying why but it can be done with ease.

Mosely your right stock to stock a k motor will handle alot more then a h series ,the pistons suck . We did spray a 75 shot on one for a couple years running 12.7 and stayed together fine . If i was in your shoes hell i would be k to but im not so i have to do what i do lol. I dont have the time or the cash gregg has obviously.

[boosted347]

holy fuck if these cars running 12s have 15k in im def never doing a k swap lol...no offense to moseley a 12.2 in an na 4 cylinder is very impressive but damn i dont have but maybe and thats a big maybe 15k in my cars build lol...im not 100% on what my car runs on slicks yet but ill find out soon :) maybe one day ill make it up that way and get some runs in with moseley, and maybe greg if he is around :goodjob:

[1civic]

Well i hope this lights A fire under someones ass to bring a K series out, to not only run some 11 passes, but also win the event in Nov. Still more than enough time, until then a B series will keep on winning!!



:taun:

[h22 jones]

agree with 99% of this. only thing i dont agree on is you dont "need" an aftermarket radiator i believe karcepts has a kit where you can just mount your half sized radiator on the other side. K is more expensive but ALL MOTOR it dominates B and H. fastest h2b on the east coast is randy running 10.5 in a street car he is out of MD while all the K cars in his class are running 10.2-10.3's. K series is just a superior motor when it comes to all motor but you have to pay to play. mosley and some other guy (srry cant remember your screen name lol) stated if these h2b's and B's around here would go up north they would get devoured by K's.

Ther agian you are talking about a whole different class of racing . Not to mention you have 50 people building the all motor k and only running two tenths faster then the only fucking person that races a hatch . Have you ever thought of it that way . Hmmm i wonder how fast the h would be if there was fifty people building them . We want know because people are scared to think out side the box and when they spend that kind of money they want to start with the best oppurtuntiy to start off with . My beat is rany goes k or gets out of it all together . I think its funny that ks are dominating because they are running two tenths faster then the only damn h series built lmao . Dont get me wrong for that money at that point i would go k to but for one reason which i cant say till i prove that gregg dont know.

Simple fact a motor is nothing but a air pump yes some heads flow better stock but once you start building them there is only one factor that the h will never be able to over come when it comes to the k series gregg tell me what is .

[h22 jones]

holy fuck if these cars running 12s have 15k in im def never doing a k swap lol...no offense to moseley a 12.2 in an na 4 cylinder is very impressive but damn i dont have but maybe and thats a big maybe 15k in my cars build lol...im not 100% on what my car runs on slicks yet but ill find out soon :) maybe one day ill make it up that way and get some runs in with moseley, and maybe greg if he is around :goodjob:

Ive never said it was cheap to build a honda lol. Ive said its cheaper for me to build a h series lol. On a side note all this talk about threwing 6,000 in a mustange and runnning 10s,or 11s im sorry but i have to agree with mosely thats bull shit . Ive been around and i can name three people that i know that can build a cheap fast mustange everybody else threws alot of money to run 13s at best and think there fast thats just how it is. Hell i remeber the last time i went to the track . I lined up beside a notch back with a cage ,big ass slicks ,purging the gas ,wearing helmet . Man this thing has a perfect paint job guages every were . Honestly i was thinking shit why did i line up next to him then he backed up didnt wanna race and the guy telling us to go started teasing him (whats wrong you scared of a four cylinder lol). I was like shit just shut up man this car is going to kill me . He pulled on up but not wanting to . I cut a good light ran a 12.4 i think to his 12.7 . That was a trailered in strait race car . Yes a joke i know but there are alot of choustons out sorry but its true.

[Vteckidd]

If 10 second mustang's were $6000 everyone would have one :)

[boosted347]

Ive never said it was cheap to build a honda lol. Ive said its cheaper for me to build a h series lol. On a side note all this talk about threwing 6,000 in a mustange and runnning 10s,or 11s im sorry but i have to agree with mosely thats bull shit . Ive been around and i can name three people that i know that can build a cheap fast mustange everybody else threws alot of money to run 13s at best and think there fast thats just how it is. Hell i remeber the last time i went to the track . I lined up beside a notch back with a cage ,big ass slicks ,purging the gas ,wearing helmet . Man this thing has a perfect paint job guages every were . Honestly i was thinking shit why did i line up next to him then he backed up didnt wanna race and the guy telling us to go started teasing him (whats wrong you scared of a four cylinder lol). I was like shit just shut up man this car is going to kill me . He pulled on up but not wanting to . I cut a good light ran a 12.4 i think to his 12.7 . That was a trailered in strait race car . Yes a joke i know but there are alot of choustons out sorry but its true.

I could throw up a list of my build and costs, i get free labor being my parents own a shop...but a rough guesstimate would be i have 18-20ik in the whole car (thats including the running car when i got it)...i weigh 4000 lbs and still went 12.2 at 126 with a 2.4 60' on drag radials, thats on stock suspension, full weight, no burnout...ill be going on slicks this fall and aiming to match my trap speed with an equal et :) drop my setup in a fox which would knock about 2-3k off the cost of the car and its a 11.5 car on drs all day no problem. A fox weighs about 800 lbs less than my convertible so thats almost a full second if you get traction :yes: and you can def get a fox into the 11s for 6k heres how :goodjob:
Fox Shell- $2000 for a nice one lol
302 short block- $600 brand new
TFS top end kit- $2500
Nitrous Kit- $500
Slicks- $500
Of course you could go the used route and do it cheaper, its very doable

[David88vert]

You can get a foxbody shell for a grand all day long of CL, usually even lower.
You can buy a used forged 408w (351w block bored up to a 408) for around $3k used all day long. Put a good carb w/intake on it for $500. Add 28" slicks and 4:10s, and a used built C4 (about $1K) with tranny swap parts and converter. That's $6K and will run 10's all day long all motor, and be reliable.
Build a nice nitrous kit with fuel supply for less than $1K more, and you can go 9's. It's been done plenty of times. Not that is a car without AC, PS, etc, and not a daily driver, but very doable.
You can find all of this on Corral any day of the week.

Shell - 1000 or less
used 408 - 3000 or less
used C4 swap - 1000
used 28x10.5 slicks - 150
used rear draglights - 300
4.10 gear swap - 250
carb and intake - 500
That's 6300 for an all motor 10 sec foxbody. The 351 block is good for 750rwhp easily, and can make 500rwhp all motor in a 408 with no trouble. 250 shot is no big deal to it. Theres a forged 408 for sale for $3000 in Warner Robins right now on CL, and plenty of chassis.

Or you can buy the roller in AL that has everything already , but a bad motor. He is asking 5500, but offer 4500 and he'll probably take it. Then buy a used 302. Last one I bought was less than 500, and ran perfectly. If you get the car cheap, you could even spend a little more on a bigger bored 8.2 deck motor.

If you want a 6000 foxbody that runs 10s, you can certainly do it.

[David88vert]

david i build hondas for one reason because thats what i work on and i run across parts for nothing and i mean nothing .

And that makes all the difference. I would do the same in your shoes.

[Vteckidd]

Then I'm giving you $6000 :p

[h22 jones]

Im not saying it cant be done but just like you could do that and i can build my car for 6,000 it cost the 90 percent of people that dont know or cant work on there own shit 3 times that .

If i wasnt planning on building my new setup from the get go i would have put the si in the mid elevens easily just didnt want that low of gearing to drive everyday. If you lived in macon you would see my dad in the si hatch atleast four days a week . Im serious he drives it every damn day so when i say its a dd i mean its a dd. Unless he is going to the hunting club he is in his hatch . Hell my new motor has the potential to do shit that nobady around here has done with a all motor car but i willl never do it because i care nothing about having a stripped out hatch . I like my shit nice and to feel good riding in it . So i will make 300 hp with ac :) coming very soon .

[05dc5s]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb211/k20z1dc5/memekseries2.jpg

[Moseley]

^^ AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

[Moseley]

no offense mike but I'm a little skeptical of this 300whp number. making 300whp requires a certain amount of wtq at a certain rpm. so take your pick:

300whp = 210wtq @ 7500
300whp = 196wtq @ 8000
300whp = 185wtq @ 8500
300whp = 175wtq @ 9000

looking at those numbers it is obvious that the easiest way to make 300whp with a honda is to rev it to 9k and still be making at least 175wtq at that rpm. But when stroke, rod length, or compression are changed... the cam requirement of the engine is changed also. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't expect a cam that makes 250whp on a stock stroke, to be worth a damn on a bottom end with different geometry, no matter how awesome the bottom end is, you might only see 5-10whp. I also hope you aren't planning on the 196wtq @ 8000 route... because that would be more VE than a cammed K20, and with a longer stroke that is pretty much impossible.

So on a legit dyno jet, I think 270-280whp from an H is pretty feasible. but just like 1/4 mile times, every little bit is more and more difficult to achieve. I'd expect it to take a perfect cam for the application, 13:1 or higher, proper fuel like Q16, perfect header and intake manifold, all dialed in... and at least 2.4L to have an H make 300whp. the only reason I say that is because it takes many of those same things to have a K make a legit 300whp, and I would expect the H to be a little more difficult due to the head design.

[boosted347]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb211/k20z1dc5/memekseries2.jpg
:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:: lmfao:

[k_killaGSR]

Ther agian you are talking about a whole different class of racing . Not to mention you have 50 people building the all motor k and only running two tenths faster then the only fucking person that races a hatch . Have you ever thought of it that way . Hmmm i wonder how fast the h would be if there was fifty people building them . We want know because people are scared to think out side the box and when they spend that kind of money they want to start with the best oppurtuntiy to start off with . My beat is rany goes k or gets out of it all together . I think its funny that ks are dominating because they are running two tenths faster then the only damn h series built lmao . Dont get me wrong for that money at that point i would go k to but for one reason which i cant say till i prove that gregg dont know.

Simple fact a motor is nothing but a air pump yes some heads flow better stock but once you start building them there is only one factor that the h will never be able to over come when it comes to the k series gregg tell me what is .

actually some of these are local shops in NY beating randy. it really doesnt matter how many people are building a motor there is only so much that can be done to a motor, rnady knows his shit so it wouldnt make a difference if he built his motor or if he had 20 people help him. randy isnt the only h2b running in his class there other h2b set ups running in his class i just used him because he is the quickest. there is a reason why people go K and its because its just a superior motor, bigger motor, better flowing head and better tech. K series are more reliable, also randy blew his motor that went 10.5 while these k's running 10.2's are still running. randy uses custom pistons and has custom work done on his head by brad at RLZ (they are good friends) and we all know RLZ does some of the best work in the states. el freddy has his rwd civic running 7's its running a k series. for a reg street person who doesnt have their own shop and alot of money and no patience then h2b is the way to go. K series is expensive but if you have patience then you can slowly put one together and spank anybody at the meets. if you roll up to a local meet with a k24/20 frank motor with bolt ons, k pro and a tune no h2b at that meet will beat you unless they are BUILT or boosted. i like h2b's they are great frank setups to have, has alot of tq and are fast shit here in NC theres a h2b with just bolts ons and a tune running 12.4's using a b16 tranny with m factory FD on slicks but k is still superior. all im saying is stock for stock K wins and fully built vs fully built K wins again so K FTMFW!

this is what happens when h2b trys to run k24 frank setup at the meets. these are two locals here in the charlotte area. the h2b has a built block with high compression pistons, full bolt ons, the head has full valvetrain with jun III cams , its tuned running a type R tranny and the k24 is a k24 block with k20a2 head full bolt ons and k pro tuned. since this video the h2b got a port and polish and is running 11's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxjoo2Qpc0s

[k_killaGSR]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb211/k20z1dc5/memekseries2.jpg

:goodjob:

[terrytowe22]

K are worthless H all the way

[DarKStaR]

no offense mike but I'm a little skeptical of this 300whp number. making 300whp requires a certain amount of wtq at a certain rpm. so take your pick:

300whp = 210wtq @ 7500
300whp = 196wtq @ 8000
300whp = 185wtq @ 8500
300whp = 175wtq @ 9000

looking at those numbers it is obvious that the easiest way to make 300whp with a honda is to rev it to 9k and still be making at least 175wtq at that rpm. But when stroke, rod length, or compression are changed... the cam requirement of the engine is changed also. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't expect a cam that makes 250whp on a stock stroke, to be worth a damn on a bottom end with different geometry, no matter how awesome the bottom end is, you might only see 5-10whp. I also hope you aren't planning on the 196wtq @ 8000 route... because that would be more VE than a cammed K20, and with a longer stroke that is pretty much impossible.

So on a legit dyno jet, I think 270-280whp from an H is pretty feasible. but just like 1/4 mile times, every little bit is more and more difficult to achieve. I'd expect it to take a perfect cam for the application, 13:1 or higher, proper fuel like Q16, perfect header and intake manifold, all dialed in... and at least 2.4L to have an H make 300whp. the only reason I say that is because it takes many of those same things to have a K make a legit 300whp, and I would expect the H to be a little more difficult due to the head design.

300whp should be able to be done with a 89x97mm pro 3 setup


actually some of these are local shops in NY beating randy. it really doesnt matter how many people are building a motor there is only so much that can be done to a motor, rnady knows his shit so it wouldnt make a difference if he built his motor or if he had 20 people help him. randy isnt the only h2b running in his class there other h2b set ups running in his class i just used him because he is the quickest. there is a reason why people go K and its because its just a superior motor, bigger motor, better flowing head and better tech. K series are more reliable, also randy blew his motor that went 10.5 while these k's running 10.2's are still running. randy uses custom pistons and has custom work done on his head by brad at RLZ (they are good friends) and we all know RLZ does some of the best work in the states. el freddy has his rwd civic running 7's its running a k series. for a reg street person who doesnt have their own shop and alot of money and no patience then h2b is the way to go. K series is expensive but if you have patience then you can slowly put one together and spank anybody at the meets. if you roll up to a local meet with a k24/20 frank motor with bolt ons, k pro and a tune no h2b at that meet will beat you unless they are BUILT or boosted. i like h2b's they are great frank setups to have, has alot of tq and are fast shit here in NC theres a h2b with just bolts ons and a tune running 12.4's using a b16 tranny with m factory FD on slicks but k is still superior. all im saying is stock for stock K wins and fully built vs fully built K wins again so K FTMFW!

this is what happens when h2b trys to run k24 frank setup at the meets. these are two locals here in the charlotte area. the h2b has a built block with high compression pistons, full bolt ons, the head has full valvetrain with jun III cams , its tuned running a type R tranny and the k24 is a k24 block with k20a2 head full bolt ons and k pro tuned. since this video the h2b got a port and polish and is running 11's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxjoo2Qpc0s
This argument can go on for days just like the mustang vs civic topic. Randy's setup was nothing special, had a stroker kit that anyone can get and custom pistons that were "max dome" that im sure anyone could order, off the shelf cams, ported head, and custom header and intake.

[David88vert]

Im not saying it cant be done but just like you could do that and i can build my car for 6,000 it cost the 90 percent of people that dont know or cant work on there own shit 3 times that .

I intentionally did not add in labor costs, just like no one added the labor costs in for doing a k-swap. We all know that labor adds up, but it sure seems like the k swap would take more, as there are more items to change.

[David88vert]

Then I'm giving you $6000 :p

Mine originally only cost me $6k, and was already superchaged. Mine isn't for sale, but if you have $6k, you can go buy that one in AL, and a motor from Coupe Performance, and be up and running. If you negotiate well, you might not even get your hands dirty and be at $6k.

Good rule of thumb.
8.2 deck = 302 stock block = semi-safe power on pump about 500rwhp when built
9.5 deck = 351 stock block = semi-safe power on pump about 750rwhp when built
Obviously, you can get more if you pour the block, or do a few extras, but street cars won't usually have that.

Mustangs are easy to make power on. Just add the smallest Vortech, a SC trim like I have, and you can make 300rwhp with everything stock. That's enouhg power to get into the high 12's right there. You can pick up used Vortech kits for $2K all day long, and a clean stock foxbody for under $4K.
There is a 92 LX for $3K OBO right now on CL in Dallas, GA that has 5 lug conversion, Moser axles, 3.73 gear, etc. Could use a paint job. If you paid $2500 for it, then put $1500 into paint, and then added slicks and spray, you would be under $6k, and would be able to do low 11's at least - and still be dependable.

[112480]

you just dont understand. Just because you have the time to browse the forum and find deals of the year is a moot point. You forget i had a K Series car, and i have infinite hook ups when it comes to parts, and its not anywhere near as cheap as you say it is.

A K SERIES WILL COST THE AVERAGE CONSUMER FAR MORE and you are acting like all a k20 needs is mounts and install. youre missing about 90% of the other stuff to swap it in and you know it.

K20A2 Swap from reputable seller $4000 PLUS SHIPPING
http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30015

$800 for KPRO if you have the OEM ecu, if not, $1000+

Mount kit-$400-500

Shifter box for EG $120-130

Shifter kit-$120-130

Adapter engine harness -$400-500

Return fuel system (rail, fittings, etc)-$200-400

karcepts AC and PS removal kit if you want to close your hood-$200
http://compare.ebay.com/like/260625819072?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y

Hybrid racing clutch line, fan switch, axles, inline fuel filter etc- $500

youre forgetting about the aftermarket radiator you have to have because you cant run a stock radiator with a K Series $200-300, the thermostat housing, the axles, the swap header cause stock wont work, slim fan, etc etc etc etc etc

So i really dont care what you CLAIM, its far more expensive than what you THINK it costs. And i guarantee if you add everything youve spent up it totals out far more than you think.

Here, compare.

http://www.hybrid-racing.com/tech/k-series-swap-parts-list/

So it may not cost $8000 or 7k or 10, but its far more than $2000-3000 like you are acting. And if you somehow pieced together a k24 built motor with valvetrain , cams, rods, pistons, machine work, bearings, header, intake manny, tb, trans, clutch, flywheel, kpro for some magical low number....you cant recommend that to people. Because you got 1 off deals that wont always be there. just cause YOU got a DEAL doesnt mean everyone else can too.




never said 10k, i said $6000-8000, which i stick by


Whoa whoa hell whoa! mike. First off PLEASE stop bringing up hmotorsonline.com! $4k for a type s swap???!!! Seriously?????!! James got the smae k20z1 swap right now at mainstream for $2000!!! Once again STOOOOP giving people these 2004 prices. I had just typed a LONG page describing all your false prices above but my computer messed up at the time and did not post it so i'm gonna sum it up for you.

1. GO TO K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM AND SEE ALL THE PRICES I SPEAK OF FOR YOUSELF!! These are NOT "magical" prices!! I told you MADMAN7887 on k20a.org sells the k-pro for $800! THATS THE WHOLE ECU WITH K-PRO ON IT!!!! You DO NOT need your own ecu!!! When i told scotty how much i paid for it, he couldnt believe it! So he(scotty) went on k20a.rog himself and saw the prices the guys was/IS giving and scotty was like "DAMN!" So k-pro DOES NOT cost $1000!!!!!!

2.Mount kit brand new from hybrid-racing cost $499. U can get that same mount kit slightly used from K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM for $3-350SHIPPED!!! sometimes $275shipped! Or u might get lucky and come across a good deal like me and get a brand new never used set for $350shipped! but on average its $3-350SHIPPED for the mounts NOT $4-500!!

3.Shifter box can be had for $50-75shipped all day on K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM!! shit u an go to www.hondapartsunlimited.com (http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com) and get the type s shifter box BRAND NEW OEM for $77.49+shipping!!

4.Shifter kit(used) on K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM goes for $60-75shipped!!

5.The "adaptor engine harness(a.k.a conversion harness) is NOT $4-500!! You can get a used one from K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM for $150-175shipped! Shit sparkksracing on k20a.org sells theirs for $250shipped!

6.Your return fuel system, i will give u is between $200-400 depending on the parts u use on it. basically the name brand.

7. DO NOT get a A/c,P/S removal kit from karcepts!!! You do not need that!! All you need is the ep3(03-05 Si)idler pulley which can be had on K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM for $50shipped! or go to hondapartsunlimited.com and get the idler pulley and bracket BRAND NEW for $68.88+shipping! Do NOT fucking spend $2-300 for the karcepts a/c,p/s removal kit!!!

8.From hybrid-racing website, the clutchline kit is $95 and the swap axels are $199. You DO NOT have to get an aftermarket inline fuel filter, u can use ur stock one on ur 92-95 eg/dc!!

9. Mike where do you come from with an aftermarket radiator?????? I have a Aluminum C&R radiator for a 92-95 CIVIC!! all u have to do is cut the brackets from the condensor side and sit the 92-95 civic rad in there and either weld the brackets back up under it or find another way to secure it to the coil support! So people you DO NOT have to get an aftermarket radiator!!! U can get a nice one for the 92-95 civic and it will work just fine, also you can use the fan switch from a 92-95 civic radiator as well!!! And u dont need a damn slim fan either!

So mike again STOOOP telling people ur 2004 k swap/part prices! The prices i give are not "magical" by any means!! ANY AND EVERYONE CAN GO TO K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX RIGHT NOW AND SEE FOR THEMSELVES!! So yes its cost more than$2-3k but its NOT $7-8k either!

And btw, mike when ppl ask me how much i spent on my motor/semi build, i dont tell them because, 1. it keeps the theives wondering and 2. like you said it would be right for me to give ppl MY prices i got my stuff for becuase some of the parts were "1 off" deals for me and proly wont be seen again.......probably! I dont give out "magical" prices mikes, only facts. So to sum it all up:


VTECKIDD-gives you k swap/part prices from 2004.

112480- gives youREALISTIC k swap/part prices in 2011 from K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM!!!

The reason i havent listed ll the other parts need(it is quite a few) to do the swap/build is because they are cheaper than the parts we listed here. I just want to let everyone know of the REALITY of the k swap/parts prices in TODAYS TIMES! So again mike STOP false claiming prices from 7 years ago!! You do not know what ur talking about! I dont care if u owned 10 k swap cars. ANYONE can go to K20A.ORG OR CLUBRSX.COM and see for themselves!! There are PLENTY of reputable sellers on those sites:goodjob:

[Z0_o6]

K20's aren't bad. You can use a K24 bottom end to get more displacement, the K20 heads outflow all but heavily worked older stuff, VTC is a nice advantage, and the blocks are extremely stout. It's progress. How long did chevy guys say that a small block was better than the LS series?

[112480]

its gregg he doesnt want to say he has $10,000 in a car that possibly could get beat by a less powerful and costly car.

I mean he isnt even factoring in his chassis which has carbon fiber tail gate, hood, wheels, coilovers, exhaust, suspension pieces, duckbill etc.

LOL! Mike u are a moron if u think i have $10k in my car. THEN on top of it you wanna bring up the things on my chassis, that can be argued to anyone elses builds. Example, if h22jones says it only cost him $2000 for everything in his dads car, then i'm not gonna come and say "well thats $2k, now add in the cost of the car itself, plus the wheels, plus this and plus that". Shit mike if that were the case then YES i do have a $10k civic! The car itself cost me $3500 back in 2003! add $400 for rims(from discounttiredirect.com) rougly $4-500 for tires, what was it mike jones, i gave u what $1-200 for the carbon fiber hatch and $150 i think for the duckbill spoiler???, now for the $250 fiber glass hood and add $6-700 S2 suspension etc etc etc...... so u do the math! i have other parts on it as well to add on!

We're not talking about the TOTAL cost of the car and exterior/interior parts with the motor, we are talking about k swap/part prices in 2011! PERIOD! I'm so sorry you think i spent $10k for my k setup:lmfao:

[112480]

agree with 99% of this. only thing i dont agree on is you dont "need" an aftermarket radiator i believe karcepts has a kit where you can just mount your half sized radiator on the other side. K is more expensive but ALL MOTOR it dominates B and H. fastest h2b on the east coast is randy running 10.5 in a street car he is out of MD while all the K cars in his class are running 10.2-10.3's. K series is just a superior motor when it comes to all motor but you have to pay to play. mosley and some other guy (srry cant remember your screen name lol) stated it earlier which is if these h2b's and B's around here would go up north they would get devoured by K's which is true.

Dont agree with mike. lol. K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM makes all his 2004 price quote look stupid enough as it is. lol And PLEASE dont tell h22jones that randy car runs 10.5 but get beat by other K's IN HIS CLASS running 10.2-10.3's AND STILL are able to drive LONG distances home.lol Dont worry thou, when h22jones gets these h2b's done, some of the K guys will show him whats up:yes:

Oh and keep us posted on ur new and upcoming k24/20 build in 2012:goodjob:

[112480]

I figured it up we have 6,000 in my dads car thats swap car and all. Gregg i have also drove to many track events swapped slicks raced and drove home. That motor was build going on four years ago , over 30,000 miles and has had three different heads with two different sets of cams ( making more power each time). It still pulls the same vacuum as it did the day it was built so dont preach to me about dependability . I like mosely car and i take nothing away from it but i promise you it is no more dependable then mine . Hell i just drove it 2.5 hours put it on the dyno and turned around and drove it home . Stop hanging on moselys k series nuts and prove something yourself . Mosely has ran a 12.2 in the quarter while ive ran a 12.3 . The difference i bet money my car weighs at least 300 pounds more then his if not 400. Mosely it weighs 2,480 pounds with me in it if you want to compare lol.

David thats right i dont stripp my cars and its not a price you have to pay just most do . Sure the si would go faster 300 pounds lighter but then again it would go faster with a h2b kit .

Mosely dont chime in you done gave away the answer but im sure he still want get . Gregg if you can tell me the one reason ( and yes there is only one reason ) the k series will dominate when taken to a certain level ill give you one rep. My bet is you dont even know why your motor is superior lol.

Gregg since you posted it show me this trail of k series street cars (all motor) that run nines and drive home ? Dont happen only in your dreams . The damn pepsie car is running the fastest times in the street car class and its a sponsered car made for the track . If has broke nines its barely and last time i checked it hasnt. I try to teach you something but you stay in your 400hp k series dream world lmao. The simple fact is at our level of racing even the b series can compete because nobody has taken it to another level and that has been proven by disko monkey . Now he can only get so light and only rev so high . Id love to see that car make a high ten second pass but i dont see and i also dont see it staying together. You just cant rev a motor to 10,000 and drive it everyday it will not stay together not even the almighty k.

Honestly there is no more money in my new motor as the motor in my dads si hatch just a different combination of parts. Lets see crower h23 rods cost the same as crower f23 rods but i got more stroke . Hell you can actually get pro 3 cams cheaper then pro 2 cams like i said motors cost the same thing just different combination of parts.

For mike well i got a 4.9 diff ,with a b16 1st 2nd and 3rd gear ,gsr 4 ,ls 5 lol all carbon syncros with lsd. I got a tranny for your ass hell i built my tranny for i ever bought parts for my motor lol.

Um mike, i didnt say UR car cant drive to an event and drive home did I??? Please show me if i did and i said there ARE NOT many(very few) k guys here in Ga/AL to show other wise at the track. So ur little fit about me proving you wrong doesnt matter cause if you fell that confident, why dont we take a trip up to NY/NJ to one of their track events next year! I WILL PAY FOR YOUR GAS GOING UP THERE! Put ur dads,ur car or any other h2b build you've done and race those K guys and lets see how many wins u'll get!!

I bet u here and now. if u can win 3 out of 10 races with them I'll give you $300(100 per race). Until then, i dont want to hear it. I basically was saying down here in the south the B and H's, appear/are superior becuase the lack of K cars! So dont damn tell people that ur h2b builds are mroe superior because you dont have a nice stream line of k cars you've raced to base that opinion off of! In that case i can bring up countless of youtube vids with k breaking allmotor records all day long. Show me the h2b vids at the track or on the street of h2b beating not 1 or 2 or 3 but countless number of k cars. Exactly! u wont find it!

And what 400whp dream world do u speak of?? Last time i checked it was done(380-400) by a few race teams now. Wheres the 400whp h2b???????? Yes i said race teams. on the street with the average person 350whp can be acheived with no problem, but lets see....when was the last time we saw a 300whp h2b floating around.......thinking.....thinking................ .............thinging.............oh thats right WE HAVENT! Stop confusing ur 300whp h2b world with reality jones!

Now ur tranny(4.9fd with b16 1st,2nd,3rd,gsr4,ls5th) sounds stout man. but when we race i dont wanna hear no "i gotta stop at 100 bullshit!" 40-120!!

Oh and if u were faster than Moseley then i would be swinging on ur nuts instead of his:yes::leghump:

[112480]

There is no way no matter what gregg says that he has less then 10,000 in his car and id beat more like 15,000. If the parts wasnt exspensive enough dropping it off at a shop and paying to have the motor built and installed im sure ends up between 2,000-3,000 not that i own a shop or anything .

WRONG!!!!! I bet you $500 that i dont have $10k in the motor or the build! once again NOT talking about the car and exterior/interior parts that could be argued with any car/make or model!

[112480]

Kills forum is dead as hell and i get a 5 page thread going in one day with no reps lol. Were is my rep gregg you know you love me lol.

rep given:goodjob:


Mosely your right stock to stock a k motor will handle alot more then a h series ,the pistons suck . We did spray a 75 shot on one for a couple years running 12.7 and stayed together fine . If i was in your shoes hell i would be k to but im not so i have to do what i do lol. I dont have the time or the cash gregg has obviously.

umm Mike, I'm broker than u so what the hell are you talking about????:confused:

[112480]

Simple fact a motor is nothing but a air pump yes some heads flow better stock but once you start building them there is only one factor that the h will never be able to over come when it comes to the k series gregg tell me what is .

Damn telling you....i rather show you:taun:

[112480]

I intentionally did not add in labor costs, just like no one added the labor costs in for doing a k-swap. We all know that labor adds up, but it sure seems like the k swap would take more, as there are more items to change.

Exactly david! But when i point out REALISTIC k swap/part prices for everyone on K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM, guys like vteckidd and h22jones will go to the labor cost and such becuase they simply can not stand for someone to prove them wrong. they ALWAYS have to be right.lol

[Vteckidd]

no offense mike but I'm a little skeptical of this 300whp number. making 300whp requires a certain amount of wtq at a certain rpm. so take your pick:



I hate to say "I TOLD YOU SO" but remember when i said something a few months ago and all the midnight guys jumped all over me. it was something like

No B Series makes over 250
No H Series makes over 270

K series are making over 300 in simple builds.

There are maybe 10 or less motors that have eclipsed the 300whp mark in a B Series in the history of their engines. There are maybe 10-20 cars making that power with an H Series.

There are probably 100+ making over 300 with a K Series.

Look at the local cars. Matt making over 300whp, Gregg was knocking on 300whp (no pun intended), Midnight claims over 300 or right next to it. There isnt a B Series in GA right now that can prove they make over 230. There isnt an H making over Jones 252, and i would venture to say besides his there prob isnt one making over 240.

Speaking of 250whp B Series, its september, wheres that motor at? still waiting on a clutch :taun:

[Vteckidd]

300whp should be able to be done with a 89x97mm pro 3 setup


When the highest whp setup locally is 252, thats dreaming. Hit 270, 280, 290 before you talk about 50WHP gains from stroke and cams. No offense but i dont see that happeneing any time soon i dont give a shit what some guy on HT made

[Vteckidd]

Whoa whoa hell whoa! mike. First off PLEASE stop bringing up hmotorsonline.com! $4k for a type s swap???!!! Seriously?????!! James got the smae k20z1 swap right now at mainstream for $2000!!! Once again STOOOOP giving people these 2004 prices. I had just typed a LONG page describing all your false prices above but my computer messed up at the time and did not post it so i'm gonna sum it up for you.



Ok ill bet you $100, call all the shops in atlanta and get a quote for a K20 install into your 92-95 Civic. I GUARANTEE it is over $6000, WELL OVER $6000. Hmotorsonline isnt 2004 prices, i got that link LAST NIGHT. So youre telling every person to just go search on clubrsx or k20 and buy a used engine from someone they dont know? Sounds shitty to me. James has had that k20Z for awhile, wasnt that a LONGBLOCK too? not a complete swap. And wasnt it damaged? Regardless doesnt matter, the price for a swap is minimum $3200-4200 for a FULL COMPLETE k20A2 i dont care what it is in Gregg LA LA land

Gregg stop lieing, i KNOW what you spent on your D series just to blow it to the moon and back, where did all that lost money go? I guarantee if you post your receipts from mainstream for the D Series build, the K series build, then the K Series REBUILD, its WELL OVER $10,000, not counting the car, not counting the parts you have that you installed yourself. Quit dreaming.

At this point ill chalk it up to youre full of shit and blantantly lieing. I dont care how many "DEALS" you can get, parts cost money. That C+R radiator wasnt free. You also paid labor unless mainstream is in the business of giving stuff away for free.

So greg, how much do you claim you spent? i want to hear an honest answer, put a $ figure on your K Swap/build. I want to hear another lie.

[112480]

300whp should be able to be done with a 89x97mm pro 3 setup

Oh really joey? then why matt(05dc5s) is making 290whp pump gas(for now) with a 89x99mm? his motor is well built with OFF THE SHELF parts and still didnt crack 300whp(for now) so what makes u think a 89x97mm pro3 setup will?? In that case, why build a k when u can make 300whp on a h2b? understand joey, i'm not saying it isnt possible. of course it is! But i rather have a off the self 300whp K with the potential to make A LOT more power and still be a DD then have a 300whp h2b that is realistically NOT a DD. Yes u CAN DD a 300whp h2b but the reality is ur not going too!

Joey did mike jones ever tell you what i told him the guy with the h2b down here in Mobile that runs 12.2/12.3 at ISD said??? About 3 weeks ago when we were at the 1/8 mile track in Irvington,AL his car messed up. He said he thinks he burned up some valves and said his car kept running lean as hell all night long. why did he keep running? i dont know. but he said the next day he will take the motor out and put in higher com pistion(just 11:5 i think) and pro 3's vs his blox whatever. but its funny what he told me and you can ask him yourself when u see him in Nov at ISD.

He told me that when he HAD AN H TRANS ON HIS SETUP HIS CAR MADE 238WHP. And when he put the B16 TRANS ON IT MADE 228WHP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now why would he lie to me about it?? Ask him for urself if you dont believe me. He was serious. he wasnt trying to downplay his car or anything but when i told him about mikejones claims of 300whp with pro3's and head work etc etc , he even said "no way"!! Matter of fact when i told him that, thats when he told me he made 238 on the H trans and 228 on the B16 trans. NOW!, he DID say that even though he made 10whp LESS on the b16 trans, his car got a FULL sec FASTER at the track just by putting the b16 trans on:goodjob: but as far as power, it set him back 10whp:yes:

Now joey his car is still fast!....matter of fact i think i'll go by TDC today and talk to him to see whats up with his car.

[Vteckidd]

Dont agree with mike. lol. K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM makes all his 2004 price quote look stupid enough as it is. lol And PLEASE dont tell h22jones that randy car runs 10.5 but get beat by other K's IN HIS CLASS running 10.2-10.3's AND STILL are able to drive LONG distances home.lol Dont worry thou, when h22jones gets these h2b's done, some of the K guys will show him whats up:yes:



Stop jocking race cars, lets stick to YOUR car. you have a fully built k24 with cams, rods, pistons, etc and barely make 280 right? Didnt it dyno less after you fixed the camshaft issue?

Just cause you cheap out on stuff and have had massive problems with any of your builds, just goes to show that people SHOULDNT take your advice.

no offense

[Vteckidd]

WRONG!!!!! I bet you $500 that i dont have $10k in the motor or the build! once again NOT talking about the car and exterior/interior parts that could be argued with any car/make or model!

youll just claim you sold other parts from your D series that negate the cost of the K parts, when thats another lie because the D parts werent free. COst is Cost.

You can settle this by posting the receipts from Mainstream for the original build, and the rebuild. Then you can post what you paid for the parts themselves. The go Pwr cams, the header, the block, the rods, the pistons, the head work, the head, the valvetrain, the axles, the mounts, the kpro, the fuel system, etc.

I guarantee (UNLESS MAINSTREAM DID YOUR WORK FOR FREE) its well over $6000

[112480]

Ok ill bet you $100, call all the shops in atlanta and get a quote for a K20 install into your 92-95 Civic. I GUARANTEE it is over $6000, WELL OVER $6000. Hmotorsonline isnt 2004 prices, i got that link LAST NIGHT. So youre telling every person to just go search on clubrsx or k20 and buy a used engine from someone they dont know? Sounds shitty to me. James has had that k20Z for awhile, wasnt that a LONGBLOCK too? not a complete swap. And wasnt it damaged? Regardless doesnt matter, the price for a swap is minimum $3200-4200 for a FULL COMPLETE k20A2 i dont care what it is in Gregg LA LA land

Gregg stop lieing, i KNOW what you spent on your D series just to blow it to the moon and back, where did all that lost money go? I guarantee if you post your receipts from mainstream for the D Series build, the K series build, then the K Series REBUILD, its WELL OVER $10,000, not counting the car, not counting the parts you have that you installed yourself. Quit dreaming.

At this point ill chalk it up to youre full of shit and blantantly lieing. I dont care how many "DEALS" you can get, parts cost money. That C+R radiator wasnt free. You also paid labor unless mainstream is in the business of giving stuff away for free.

So greg, how much do you claim you spent? i want to hear an honest answer, put a $ figure on your K Swap/build. I want to hear another lie.

What the hell are you smoking mike? seriously? lies? your the only one giving DELUSIONS OUT TO PEOPLE!. We're not talking about my D series build or k rebuild(which was just an oil pump and cams, hardly a full rebuild) we're talking about how much it is to get or build a STOCK k series!! What shops are you referring to that charges $6000 for the swap in a eg???????????????????? Yea if u DROP YOUR DAMN CAR OFF AND HAVE THEM DO EVERYTHING!? But mike i ask you, who in 2011 really does that shit anymore!!!???? Seriously! So stop with ur bullshit please. Its very insulting to the people who cant read between YOUR false price infos and delusions! And like i said b4 i'm not giving my prices because it makes no sense to b/c 1. it'll just be something for you to feed off of and call bullshit when you dont know wht hell you're talking about and 2. They might not be able to get it for the price i got mine for.

Remember the Ls/Vtec parts i had when i was gonna do allmotor ls/V? surely you dont think i paid $2000 for those parts? i.e head/trans/block etc etc.....i traded on that shit(through patience) for the corresponding k parts! So i didnt pay shit for my head/block(which was the whole k24a1 motor btw) and trans and other parts as well. shit i didnt start paying for SWAP parts till in the middle of my parts list, all from CHEAP B series parts. So you can save all those B.S stories your telling everyone. Its funny how you are always so quick to tell everyone how much my reciepts said on my D series turbo build, but once again we are talking about K series swaps and parts NOT D,B or H series. Stay focues mike, stay focus and quit with the lies ok.

I put the facts out there....its called K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM where i go all my parts from!! used and some new! So anyone else new reading all of this can go to those site in the "For Sale" section and get the swap/parts u need to do ur k motor:goodjob: Dont listen to mike B.S.....see for yourself!!

[Vteckidd]

Exactly david! But when i point out REALISTIC k swap/part prices for everyone on K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM, guys like vteckidd and h22jones will go to the labor cost and such becuase they simply can not stand for someone to prove them wrong. they ALWAYS have to be right.lol

I gues the difference is i prefer to use new parts vs hunting down EP3 8 year old idler pullies and rigging stuff together just so i can say i have a Kswap. I never said you couldnt find deals or do things on the cheap, but im sorry your flat out wrong that a K Series costs so much cheaper. its simply NOT TRUE and anyone that does one in their car knows that, except you. You dont want to admit how much money you have purely because of EGO. Because you got beat by a 2.0, because you dont make within 20whp of Matts car, etc. Youre all talk gregg you always have been.

This is just more of the same from you. YAP YAP YAP LIE LIE LIE

tell you what, answer 3 questions:

1) How much money do YOU CLAIM you ahve in your K Series build. The initial swap and parts plus the rebuild (list labor, and we can factor that out but i just want to know)

2) How much would you tell a kid at a meet it COSTS to do a K Series swap in their 95 EG

3) Would you do the swap for him for that price

Thanks

[112480]

Stop jocking race cars, lets stick to YOUR car. you have a fully built k24 with cams, rods, pistons, etc and barely make 280 right? Didnt it dyno less after you fixed the camshaft issue?

Just cause you cheap out on stuff and have had massive problems with any of your builds, just goes to show that people SHOULDNT take your advice.

no offense

LOL i havent cheaped out with anything besides the header i got from you and i just put the same profile cam on it for now so its making the same power....for now:D And who jocking race teams? So to make 300whp on a K requires a race team??? LOL! Yea ur defiently smoking that good shit this morning. LOL!!! And what "advice" do u speak of??? The fact that i told everyone to go to K20A.ORG OR CLUBRSX.COM AN SEE FOR THEMSELVES????

So tell me mike how is that bad advice??? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really i want to hear how me telling people to go to those sites and see for themselves is bad advice????????????? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[112480]

youll just claim you sold other parts from your D series that negate the cost of the K parts, when thats another lie because the D parts werent free. COst is Cost.

You can settle this by posting the receipts from Mainstream for the original build, and the rebuild. Then you can post what you paid for the parts themselves. The go Pwr cams, the header, the block, the rods, the pistons, the head work, the head, the valvetrain, the axles, the mounts, the kpro, the fuel system, etc.

I guarantee (UNLESS MAINSTREAM DID YOUR WORK FOR FREE) its well over $6000

Wrong again on the labor cost! and i dont have to post my receipts to settle anything. lol. i have my car sitting in my driveway running so why do i have to "prove" anything wih receipts? lol! As long as poeple go to K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM and see for themselves, thats all that matters:yes:

[Vteckidd]

And like i said b4 i'm not giving my prices because it makes no sense

Figured. So easy to argue when you dont have to back anything up



Its funny how you are always so quick to tell everyone how much my reciepts said on my D series turbo build, but once again we are talking about K series swaps and parts NOT D,B or H series. Stay focues mike, stay focus and quit with the lies ok.

Wanna know whats funny, remember the guy you bought "my" header from for your B Series ls vtec. That was my roomate i sent out to sell it because you wouldnt buy it from me cause you had some beef with me at the time. His name is Jason, Mike Jones knows him and knows about the transaction. Funny thing is he sold it to you for $300, then you said to me few months later when we were on speaking terms you paid $200 for it from some guy on the forums. Never told you that, but its just an example of you bullshitting.

Im smarter than that gregg :P


I put the facts out there....its called K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM where i go all my parts from!! used and some new! So anyone else new reading all of this can go to those site in the "For Sale" section and get the swap/parts u need to do ur k motor:goodjob: Dont listen to mike B.S.....see for yourself!!

your facts are distorted and only based on LUCK assuming that someone can find deals on an online forum, not get scammed, and hopefully its available at the time. Thats not the way people run businesses.



if u DROP YOUR DAMN CAR OFF AND HAVE THEM DO EVERYTHING!? But mike i ask you, who in 2011 really does that shit anymore!!!????

UH, HOW ABOUT YOU! Thats EXACTLY what you did with your D and your K LOL YOu dropped your SHELL off, waited 2 years or more, gave mainstream a box of parts and said "build it". I dont know of any other shop that would let you store your car for 2 years for free.

I wont argue this anymore, its obvious you have no clue what youre talking about

[Vteckidd]

So tell me mike how is that bad advice??? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Really i want to hear how me telling people to go to those sites and see for themselves is bad advice????????????? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

im just saying YOUR advice got you a car that makes sub power comapred to other K24s in GA, and it blew up and had issues.

So i wouldnt go your route

[112480]

You can settle this by posting the receipts from Mainstream for the original build, and the rebuild. Then you can post what you paid for the parts themselves. The go Pwr cams, the header, the block, the rods, the pistons, the head work, the head, the valvetrain, the axles, the mounts, the kpro, the fuel system, etc.

Well lets see... how much did you sell ur kiddracing header to me for??? Like i told you b4, the block didnt cost me anything(and if i were paying the guy cash for it, he said he'll take $150, if u must know), the rods were a present from my fiance, didnt pay for the FULLY ASSEMBLED head, told u my k-pro was $650, told u my mounts were $350shipped brand new, fuel system i got for $175shipped(full sysytem, i.e SS lines,Aeromotive FPR, fuel rail etc etc). Stock head by the way with a "clean up port job", doesnt even compare to matt ported head in the slightest!, pistions and even rods dont count in this euqtion because we were talking about a STOCK kswap or STOCK k24/k20 build which my k24a1 block came fully assembled. And everyone knows piston are between $4-500(unless u can get a better deal on them) but again now ur talking about BUILDING a k motor when we were originally talking about a STOCK swap or stock k24/k20 build and as usual u try to find a way to push the subject of a STOCK k motor into what i or someone else paid for a BUILT motor.

Typical mike, but u should know by now that u dont get me with ur antics. After i've showed my point(i.e GO TO K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM in the for sale section) and ur STILL trying to argue, i'll just ignore whatever you say about the particular subject and just let you say whatever little mikey fells like saying:goodjob:

[112480]

im just saying YOUR advice got you a car that makes sub power comapred to other K24s in GA, and it blew up and had issues.

So i wouldnt go your route

Again what advice??? K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM advice??? Blew up? I just had oil pump failure cause i used a USED oil pump. lesson learned and sub power to other k24's in GA. LMAO!!!!!!!!!! If(which u are) referring to Matt's and midnights car, once again you dont have a clue what ur talking about! Their Cars are more built than mine in regards to the parts the have vs mine. Did you know Moseley cams are BIGGER than mine? LOL! I have a LOT of room for improvement! Theres is allmotor purpose built, i'm doing both for allmotor and boost. I didnt mak 300whp on the parts i've chossen and its ok, ESPEACIALLY when comparing my build to matts or midnights:yes: so once again mikey u fail at knowing what ur talking about:yes:

[Vteckidd]

Well lets see... how much did you sell ur kiddracing header to me for???
I think it was $250-280


Like i told you b4, the block didnt cost me anything(and if i were paying the guy cash for it, he said he'll take $150, if u must know)
Sweet K24 blocks are FREE! didnt know that.



, the rods were a present from my fiance,
Need to get me one of those! im sure everyone can count on that.


didnt pay for the FULLY ASSEMBLED head
Fully assembled K20 heads are free too? Fuckin a where have i been!


, told u my k-pro was $650

$150 below Hondata MAP which would get that guy dropped as a distributor FYI. Kpro is USUALLY $750-800 IF YOU HAVE THE ECU, $900-1000 if you dont.

, told u my mounts were $350shipped brand new, fuel system i got for $175shipped(full sysytem, i.e SS lines,Aeromotive FPR, fuel rail etc etc).


Stock head by the way with a "clean up port job", doesnt even compare to matt ported head in the slightest!,
That im sure charles didnt do for free, and IIRC you paid Turbo Dave $500 or gave him $500 in parts that he did nothing for you with. If charles did do it for free, im sure no one else will get that deal. It still costs SOMETHING.


pistions and even rods dont count in this euqtion because we were talking about a STOCK kswap or STOCK k24/k20 build which my k24a1 block came fully assembled.
So your K24 block came fully assembled with the rods and pistons? Funny how i saw your block BARE and charles kept saying "waiting on gregg to finish getting parts so i can assemble the motor". ANd yes its relevant im trying to show how you dont know how to add.

You do realize i told you about a stock K Swap and YOU SAID how cheap it was to buy a block, a head, etc. So i suppose the argument only works for you.



And everyone knows piston are between $4-500(unless u can get a better deal on them)
correct

but again now ur talking about BUILDING a k motor when we were originally talking about a STOCK swap or stock k24/k20 build and as usual u try to find a way to push the subject of a STOCK k motor into what i or someone else paid for a BUILT motor.
I showed you a K20A2 swap for $4000, you havent shown me anything that shows it cheaper.


Typical mike, but u should know by now that u dont get me with ur antics. After i've showed my point(i.e GO TO K20A.ORG/CLUBRSX.COM in the for sale section) and ur STILL trying to argue, i'll just ignore whatever you say about the particular subject and just let you say whatever little mikey fells like saying:goodjob:
youre point is retarded, and makes no sense.

So i guess your advice is "yo dawg get you a fiance to buy you parts, get free k20 headz assembled, and free labor, you gots a K SWAP NOW!!"

remember to type in all caps and in bold, and to put some gay quotation in your signature.

good day sir

[Vteckidd]

LOL! I have a LOT of room for improvement! Theres is allmotor purpose built, i'm doing both for allmotor and boost. I didnt mak 300whp on the parts i've chossen and its ok, ESPEACIALLY when comparing my build to matts or midnights:yes: so once again mikey u fail at knowing what ur talking about:yes:

do i need to go dig up all your posts were you were claiming 280-300whp months ago before the car was done. And we all told you you were bench racing?

you built this MONSTER ALL MOTOR K24 that you wouldnt stop running your mouth about, and its gotten beat by a 2.0l K20A, and makes sub 280whp now (i know what it makes i saw the dyno after your car broke).

You used a USED OIL PUMP on a built motor LOLOL

proves my point, you dont know what youre doing, and skimping on parts is what youre about, not building a car thats worth anything.

Mike 1

Gregg -102903839

[1civic]

So much beef in here!!!

carry on!

[Vteckidd]

no beef, just asking him to put his money where his mouth is. If hes so confident post youre receipts. I can factor out labor, but i want to see what he spent.

I want to hear what he THINKS he has in his car vs what he has in it. And im only talking about the K Series build hes done. Im not even talking about the $7000-8000 Turbo D Series that ran for 2 months that he spent before.

Gregg has AT LEAST $10,000 in his car, id even wager its $15,000 but we will never know the truth.

[k_killaGSR]

Dont agree with mike. lol. K20A.ORG AND CLUBRSX.COM makes all his 2004 price quote look stupid enough as it is. lol And PLEASE dont tell h22jones that randy car runs 10.5 but get beat by other K's IN HIS CLASS running 10.2-10.3's AND STILL are able to drive LONG distances home.lol Dont worry thou, when h22jones gets these h2b's done, some of the K guys will show him whats up:yes:

Oh and keep us posted on ur new and upcoming k24/20 build in 2012:goodjob:

actually you are correct i over looked somethings he said. like paying 4k for a type s from hmotorsonline. why pay that when you can buy a block for 300-400 and a head for like 600-800 depending on whats done to it. shit i paid $700 for my k24a8 block with k20z3 head which included the RBC and type s wiring harness, i also just bought me a type s tranny with a polished and knife edged k24a2 crank for $1000 on k20a.org (talk about a deal). you can find alot of deals on k20a.org. theirs guys on there selling forged high compression pistons for like 350, rods for like 200, mounts for 300. like i said earlier to build a K you just have to have a little bit of patience and you'll find what you needfor the right price. ill make sure to share my build with you guys. might make a build thread. i know one thing ima have these guys at the meets :cry: lol

[CptWitwiki]

This thread was a very entertaining way to spend my time between classes

[112480]

So much beef in here!!!

carry on!

LOL, i'm not aruging with mike anymore bobby. I've said what i said about it and through his lame antics he'll never get to me. lol!! On the internet too?:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmf ao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfa o::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao ::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

actually you are correct i over looked somethings he said. like paying 4k for a type s from hmotorsonline. why pay that when you can buy a block for 300-400 and a head for like 600-800 depending on whats done to it. shit i paid $700 for my k24a8 block with k20z3 head which included the RBC and type s wiring harness, i also just bought me a type s tranny with a polished and knife edged k24a2 crank for $1000 on k20a.org (talk about a deal). you can find alot of deals on k20a.org. theirs guys on there selling forged high compression pistons for like 350, rods for like 200, mounts for 300. like i said earlier to build a K you just have to have a little bit of patience and you'll find what you needfor the right price. ill make sure to share my build with you guys. might make a build thread. i know one thing ima have these guys at the meets :cry: lol

you guys obviously havent built enough to realize there is more to a motor than a block head and tranny. Also i dont know where you are buying complete rotating assemblies like a K20A2 for $300-400. Maybe with 150k miles. A VTEC K 20 head goes for $600 all day and more. So congrats you found a DEAL, but its not something you can recommend to a CUSTOMER. very few people are going to trust buying X block with X head with X tranny from some random guys on clubrsx or k20a.org. Even then youre missing a ton of stuff

What about:

flywheel
flywheel bolts
starter
starter bolts
alternator
clutch assembly
shifter cables
clips
bushings
wiring harness
fuel rail
injectors
tb
tps
valve cover
valve cover hardware
timing chain
timing chain sprockets, guides, cover
oil pan
oil pan hardware
tranny bolts
thermostat
thermostat housing
coolant temp sensor
VSS
oil pressure sensor
ECU
wiring harness
knock sensor
idler pulley
intake manifold
IAC
IAT



So why you guys can claim you can buy a block for $400-500 and a head for $600-800, you are overlooking a TON OF PARTS that come with a complete swap. Most people arent going to sit there and hunt down all that stuff. They would rather buy it all complete because at the end of the day you can buy a full swap for $4000, or you can buy a block, head, headgasket, pay someone to put the motor together, only to figure out your missing $500-1000 more in parts, etc etc etc etc

Ask james which is easier to do. Or how many times someone says "i got everything" and THEY DONT.

If you guys are somehow able to beat what everyone else is paying, congrats. youre still in the minority. Ive bought PLENTY of blocks, heads etc that were missing parts. I refuse to believe you can buy a K20A2 swap for $1500 with truly everything you need. I have bought a K20A2 swap before for $2000, doesnt mean every swap is $2000.

[112480]

This thread was a very entertaining way to spend my time between classes

glad we can help:goodjob:

[Moseley]

What about:

flywheel
flywheel bolts
starter
starter bolts
alternator
clutch assembly
shifter cables
clips
bushings
wiring harness
fuel rail
injectors
tb
tps
valve cover
valve cover hardware
timing chain
timing chain sprockets, guides, cover
oil pan
oil pan hardware
tranny bolts
thermostat
thermostat housing
coolant temp sensor
VSS
oil pressure sensor
ECU
wiring harness
knock sensor
idler pulley
intake manifold
IAC
IAT



:lmfao:

[112480]

actually you are correct i over looked somethings he said. like paying 4k for a type s from hmotorsonline. why pay that when you can buy a block for 300-400 and a head for like 600-800 depending on whats done to it. shit i paid $700 for my k24a8 block with k20z3 head which included the RBC and type s wiring harness, i also just bought me a type s tranny with a polished and knife edged k24a2 crank for $1000 on k20a.org (talk about a deal). you can find alot of deals on k20a.org. theirs guys on there selling forged high compression pistons for like 350, rods for like 200, mounts for 300. like i said earlier to build a K you just have to have a little bit of patience and you'll find what you needfor the right price.

shhhhhhhh......dont tell vteckidd that, cause he'll call bullshit on you ESPEACIALLY if u cant provide receipts!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao ::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

LOL, i'm not aruging with mike anymore bobby. I've said what i said about it and through his lame antics he'll never get to me. lol!! On the internet too?:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmf ao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfa o::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao ::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

$10 says hes already angry texted someone about this. Prob Kyle haha

[Vteckidd]

:lmfao:

gregg prob got all that for free from his Fiance too

[Moseley]

mike you are so right. Luis bought his K swap for 4k in '06 and I think it was a hell of a deal.

long block, manifolds, TB, throttle cable, fuel rail / injectors, full engine harness and charge harness, starter, alternator, tranny, clutch, flywheel, axles, shifter cables, shifter box, ECU.

[Vteckidd]

shhhhhhhh......dont tell vteckidd that, cause he'll call bullshit on you ESPEACIALLY if u cant provide receipts!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao ::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

you guys leave me no choice.

See i operate on FACTS. Not half truths, or so and so said, or whatever. So you should argue FACTS with FACTS. You guys dont do that.

I say "no one makes over 250whp with a B SEries" then theres a 25 page thread about how IM WRONG yet no one has proven it at all. Its very simple, post a dyno from a GA shop with a b series making 250whp? whats so hard?

You say you dont have $10,000 in your car, i say youre full of shit. You say "i dont have to prove it".

You say a K Series is cheap, i say youre wrong and post links prices, point out the gross amount of things you are forgetting. You say " i dont have to prove it" or "my fiance bought it for me".

Thats why you guys think im an asshole, is because i call you on your bullshit and it angers you because you know you cant win with someone that argues like me. Period

[Vteckidd]

mike you are so right. Luis bought his K swap for 4k in '06 and I think it was a hell of a deal.

long block, manifolds, TB, throttle cable, fuel rail / injectors, full engine harness and charge harness, starter, alternator, tranny, clutch, flywheel, axles, shifter cables, shifter box, ECU.

i cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not .........

Serious question and you dont have to answer of course............how much do you THINK it costs to do a K20A2 swap in a donor shell. Im curious to see what another K Series owner says. You can be as cheap as you want.

Who is more right, me, or gregg?

answer honestly

[112480]

mike you are so right. Luis bought his K swap for 4k in '06 and I think it was a hell of a deal.

long block, manifolds, TB, throttle cable, fuel rail / injectors, full engine harness and charge harness, starter, alternator, tranny, clutch, flywheel, axles, shifter cables, shifter box, ECU.

Wait wait, u sure u meant 2010? Surely he didnt buy it in 06 for 4k? I thought things like that depreciates over time. not increase:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:: lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[k_killaGSR]

you guys obviously havent built enough to realize there is more to a motor than a block head and tranny.

What about:

flywheel
flywheel bolts
starter
starter bolts
alternator
clutch assembly
shifter cables
clips
bushings
wiring harness
fuel rail
injectors
tb
tps
valve cover
valve cover hardware
timing chain
timing chain sprockets, guides, cover
oil pan
oil pan hardware
tranny bolts
thermostat
thermostat housing
coolant temp sensor
VSS
oil pressure sensor
ECU
wiring harness
knock sensor
idler pulley
intake manifold
IAC
IAT



So why you guys can claim you can buy a block for $400-500 and a head for $600-800, you are overlooking a TON OF PARTS that come with a complete swap. Most people arent going to sit there and hunt down all that stuff. They would rather buy it all complete because at the end of the day you can buy a full swap for $4000, or you can buy a block, head, headgasket, pay someone to put the motor together, only to figure out your missing $500-1000 more in parts, etc etc etc etc

Ask james which is easier to do. Or how many times someone says "i got everything" and THEY DONT.

If you guys are somehow able to beat what everyone else is paying, congrats. youre still in the minority. Ive bought PLENTY of blocks, heads etc that were missing parts. I refuse to believe you can buy a K20A2 swap for $1500 with truly everything you need. I have bought a K20A2 swap before for $2000, doesnt mean every swap is $2000.

most of the stuff you listed like iat, iac, intake manifld, valve cover, all sensors for the block and head,tranny bolts, oil pan, TB with all sensors including tps, stock injectors, timing chain with guides, sprockets and timing chain cover, coil packs comes with it. i just didnt think i had to list every little thing that came with it because most of this stuff is supposed to come with a motor. stuff like fly wheel ,clutch i dont car that it didnt come with it because it would get switched out anyways, same thing with fuel rail. starters and alternators go for cheap on k20a.org. you mentioned earlier something about getting lucky and not getting scammed well thats why you do your research on someone before you purchase from them. look up there prev transactions, see what people say about the person. only buy from a reputable seller and use paypal if you dont get what you paid for then file a complaint to get your money back. you are correct just because someone buys a motor for 2000 that doesnt mean every swap is going for 2000 but that goes back to what i stated you just gotta have patience when building a K. you have to wait for the right part to come around for the right price. but im done with this convo this thing had like 7 pgs on the first day lol it can go on for YEARS. props to the OP for entertaining us :goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

Wait wait, u sure u meant 2010? Surely he didnt buy it in 06 for 4k? I thought things like that depreciates over time. not increase:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: :lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:: lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

thats why B Series GSR swaps have INCREASED over time. same with ITR motors. The get more and more rare as time goes on because honda doesnt make them anymore. As supply goes down and demand goes up, prices increase.

Are you really that dumb?

The K20a2 WAS $4500 back in 06-07 from HMO, its prob gone down because more have become available. Theres a market spike then fall. in 06, RSX was only at most 4 years old, so there wasnt a ton of them in junkyards, or being sold used, etc(most still had 5 year warranties). As time goes on youll reach a peak where the cars hit a sweet spot of being old enough that they are affordable to take apart(warranties expire, 2nd and 3rd ownership increases), and the percentage of them hitting the junkyards or being imported from japan (because of age) makes them more available, which drives the price down. But not drastically.

Then once they get cheap enough where people buy them and deplinish the existing stock, they become more rare, and prices go back up.

I would expect in the next 5-10 years the 97 ITR motor becomes almost extinct (the JDM version) or spikes to $6000-7000 a swap because its so rare. When that happens, the K Series will be more viable, and affordable.

[boosted347]

Wow....to me this looks like mike is comparing new costs to grefs used cost, of course used is cheaper...this was alot of bickering though lol

[112480]

The get more and more rare as time goes on because honda doesnt make them anymore. As supply goes down and demand goes up, prices increase.

DUUUUUUUH!!!:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao: Its not the case right now with k series....DUUUUUUH:taun::taun::taun::taun::taun:

[1civic]

LOL, i'm not aruging with mike anymore bobby. I've said what i said about it and through his lame antics he'll never get to me. lol!! On the internet too?:lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmf ao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfa o::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao ::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:
Mike can be an extremist!! :crazy: I can't argue with him anymore, his type is always right!!:screwy:

[112480]

most of the stuff you listed like iat, iac, intake manifld, valve cover, all sensors for the block and head,tranny bolts, oil pan, TB with all sensors including tps, stock injectors, timing chain with guides, sprockets and timing chain cover, coil packs comes with it. i just didnt think i had to list every little thing that came with it because most of this stuff is supposed to come with a motor.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......................... dont tell vteckidd that either...........shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......... ......................... he's doing a good job by himself of making a fool of himself so , shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........:lmfao::lmfao::l mfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lm fao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao::lmfao:

[Vteckidd]

If they are so cheap i wonder why EVERYONE sells it for the same price

ITR
http://www.jspecauto.com/catalog_product.aspx?prod_id=741

K20R
http://www.jspecauto.com/catalog_product.aspx?prod_id=13

K20R
http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_details/24/Honda_K20A_RSX_Integra_Type-R_DC5

ITR 96 spec
http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_details/17/Honda_B18C_Integra_Type-R

K20 Longblock
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-ACURA-RSX-TYPE-S-COMPLETE-ENGINE-96K-K20A2-PRB-/270808931405?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0d785c4d

I cant go to clubrsx or k20a.org at work, or hmotorsonline. but im pretty close to all the prices other businesses charge. That should be used as a guidline, not the "one tiem i bought so and so parts for super cheap cause i found a deal online on a forum".

[112480]

but i'm out too. go other things to do. See ya'll later.

[Vteckidd]

Wow....to me this looks like mike is comparing new costs to grefs used cost, of course used is cheaper...this was alot of bickering though lol

Facts are facts.

Can you get a mount kit that costs NEW $500 for used $350? sure. Absolutely.

Can you get a $1000 kpro for $650? prob, if you wait and look long enough.

Im not arguing greg got deals, im not arguing some can do it for cheaper than others.

what im arguing is K SERIES COST. Greg thinks because he spent 2-3 years searching forums for the perfect deal that is the way to do it. Ive also established he likes to lie about what he actually spent or embelish what it really cost him. why do you think he wont post receipts? he knows hes wrong.

The fact is Gregg tries to insinuate that a K Series costs less than $6000-8000 like i said it does. In some cases he is right, in MOST CASES HE IS DEAD WRONG.

When trying to represent and average cost to someone, you factor in the market value of certain parts. The fact he says "my fiance got me rods for free" and wont count that in his total shows just how delusional he is. There is STILL A COST ASSOCIATE WITH THAT PART regardless. So hes saying if my great grandaddy gave me a 92 civic for $100, then I CAN TELL EVERYONE THAT THEIR 92 CIVIC IS ONLY WORTH $100!

its retarded, and frankly i hate arguing with idiots. Im right, i know i am, if i was wrong everyone would have K Series. they dont, because it costs too much, and everyone knows that. Except gregg, who has a K series that cost too much but wont admit it because its marginal performance at best.

[Moseley]

i cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not .........

Serious question and you dont have to answer of course............how much do you THINK it costs to do a K20A2 swap in a donor shell. Im curious to see what another K Series owner says. You can be as cheap as you want.

Who is more right, me, or gregg?

answer honestly

no sarcasm at all. there's a lot to be said about getting a fully functioning assembly out of 1 car.

How much do I think it costs to do a K swap with all new parts and a mint swap? 7k.

Can it be done for less? sure there are corners to cut

the problem is if you do a stock K and don't get the proper supporting mods like a good header and k pro, then you might as well have went H because it'll only make 200-210whp.

Then if you build a K, especially a 2.4L, there are so many parts floating around and engines aren't like legos. what you don't see on K20a.org or other sites because people do not advertise. is that there are 100's of people who have done their first K build by slapping a bunch of parts together. they all say "I'm gonna make 260" or "I'm gonna make 280" with their K24s and they end up making like 230. I'm impressed that Gregg's car actually made the numbers it did considering how many built K24s I've heard of come in around 230-240whp.

I think Luis had about 9k into his swap including the type-r tranny, nitrous setup, and anything else related to the drivetrain. but that was all new parts and not a single thing on the car other than the clutch and thermostat has been replaced in 5 years.. So in the end I think you get what you pay for.

[1civic]

But Before you start off on me mr. vteckidd I'll say this... Only a handful in GA make 220+ NA on the B series, yes their are a couple which make 240+, only they can prove to you.. I will tell you this, My 220 is untuned on Blox C's with an un-ported GSR head, in a hot ass shop.. ;)

Now:
If my family was not first in my life I would have no problem proving my point, but right now my car sits.. :(

James has a B series in the shop at midnight which will make more, much more, but again he has family which comes first.. I'm sure he feels the same, hopefully he competes in NOV..

Look for midnight at the top in the all motor class for sure!! That's what matters to most anyways, right?

Race on Sunday, sell parts on Monday!! LMAO....

As far as the K series goes, if you can get deals then it makes more sense to do the swap, but it will still cost 4-5k with shell at minimum, and that's shady shit included!!
Why go that route if the B series can still win races in Ga... Pointless in my eyes, unless someone steps up the game in Ga, or hell the whole southeast.. ;)

[05dc5s]

But Before you start off on me mr. vteckidd I'll say this... Only a handful in GA make 220+ NA on the B series, yes their are a couple which make 240+, only they can prove to you.. I will tell you this, My 220 is untuned on Blox C's with an un-ported GSR head, in a hot ass shop.. ;)

Now:
If my family was not first in my life I would have no problem proving my point, but right now my car sits.. :(

James has a B series in the shop at midnight which will make more, much more, but again he has family which comes first.. I'm sure he feels the same, hopefully he competes in NOV..

Look for midnight at the top in the all motor class for sure!! That's what matters to most anyways, right?

Race on Sunday, sell parts on Monday!! LMAO....

As far as the K series goes, if you can get deals then it makes more sense to do the swap, but it will still cost 4-5k with shell at minimum, and that's shady shit included!!
Why go that route if the B series can still win races in Ga... Pointless in my eyes, unless someone steps up the game in Ga, or hell the whole southeast.. ;)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb211/k20z1dc5/memekseries1.jpg

[05dc5s]

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Omg I'm having too much fun with this.

[boosted347]

:lmfao: :lmfao: :lmfao:

Omg I'm having too much fun with this.

Keep them coming im entertained by them :yes: plus I love dos equis lol

[05dc5s]

I'll have to upload some moar tonight I have a couple others but they aren't in my photobucket.

[Vteckidd]

Only a handful in GA make 220+ NA on the B series, yes their are a couple which make 240+, only they can prove to you..
i agree on the first part, disagree on the last. Im sure there are cars like yours in the 220whp range, but i doubt there are any (besides Chip) in the 240+ range. If so they can accept my challenge that i have laid out, its is $100 to anyone that can crack 240whp on mainstreams dyno. So far i still have my money.


But Before you start off on me mr. vteckidd I'll say this... I will tell you this, My 220 is untuned on Blox C's with an un-ported GSR head, in a hot ass shop.. ;)

220 isnt 250 and is far from 240. If you pick up 20whp congrats, just means you are willing to drive your car at a dangerous state by not tuning it. b ut i doubt you pick up that much power. but you can always prove me wrong.


Now: If my family was not first in my life I would have no problem proving my point, but right now my car sits.. :(
my heart bleeds for you


James has a B series in the shop at midnight which will make more, much more, but again he has family which comes first.. I'm sure he feels the same, hopefully he competes in NOV..
if it hasnt done it, then its all speculation. you can SAY "it will make more, much more" but that means ZILCH in the numbers world. Prove it. Gregg talked all day about 300whp, hes nowhere near it. So until it is DONE, dont say how easy it is.


Look for midnight at the top in the all motor class for sure!! That's what matters to most anyways, right?
been hearing that for months


As far as the K series goes, if you can get deals then it makes more sense to do the swap, but it will still cost 4-5k with shell at minimum, and that's shady shit included!!
Why go that route if the B series can still win races in Ga... Pointless in my eyes, unless someone steps up the game in Ga, or hell the whole southeast.. ;)
agreed


The "i have family" or "other things are more important" excuse only gets you so far and can only last for so long. Here it is september, and still no one has proven me wrong on the B Series argument we have had, and im confident it will be some time before anyone does. You can make claims all you want, but i operate on facts.

Proving hp numbers is easy, it takes a dyno sheet. The fact no one has proven me wrong just proves...........im right ;)

[1civic]

My point is I rep midnight.. I won the last showdown, and I will plan to be at the top next event!
So yes midnight has done something in my eyes, james car should be there also so that's another All Motor car, wether he takes you offer on the dyno, well that's on him..

Now I said 224, and made 220, I also said I would race an event.. Won the event!:thinking:
cudo's to me a street racer which now runs track events.. Running a simple setup, which is the same for 4-5 years, Still doesn't matter I know.. But you ask for facts, so there you go!!

Guess what I'm saying is I posted countless times with my ego, claims, etc, but now I've proved what I claim.. Do I hope to pick up 10-15 Hp on cams and tune, sure I do... MORRIS TUNE FTW!!!

Do I rep Midnight, and support them, sure I do!! That's my team...:goodjob:

[Vteckidd]

My point is I rep midnight.. I won the last showdown, and I will plan to be at the top next event!
What did you run to win showdown? congrats, i never said you shouldnt have won..........



So yes midnight has done something in my eyes, james car should be there also so that's another All Motor car, wether he takes you offer on the dyno, well that's on him..
now youre equating hp numbers with winning events? i dont get it.


Now I said 224, and made 220, I also said I would race an event.. Won the event!:thinking:
Nah you said:
"makes 224, makes MORE now" and claimed it had PRO3s, now its blox Cs. Then you dyno and make LESS. Now 4whp can happen, but the fact is you tried to say you made more, never proved it, then made less than you claimed. so youre 0-2. but 220 is good, you should be proud. but 220 isnt 240


cudo's to me a street racer which now runs track events.. Running a simple setup, which is the same for 4-5 years, Still doesn't matter I know.. But you ask for facts, so there you go!!
uh i never said you couldnt win an event, or couldnt drive, i asked for a dyno sheet of you "making more" than 224 which is what you claimed. and you never produded it. I havent even seen you make 224, just the 220 at midnight. so i dont know what your point is.


Guess what I'm saying is I posted countless times with my ego, claims, etc, but now I've proved what I claim.. Do I hope to pick up 10-15 Hp on cams and tune, sure I do... MORRIS TUNE FTW!!!
uh no you havent. My beef with you was your generic "i make more than 224" whp statements then acting like no one has the right to ask you to prove it. Which, technically, you still havent. You said it not me bobby, i dont have anything to prove.

your ego said (and i still have the PM) "Made 224, makes more now with the new cams, intake, and E85". To date, you have NOT proved that.

Furthermore, to date, no one has proven the 250whp claims either.


Do I rep Midnight, and support them, sure I do!! That's my team...:goodjob:

congrats? i dont care who you "rep"

[boosted347]

Irrelevant to the conversation but another dos equis picture :)
http://troll.me/images/the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world/i-dont-always-fuck-fat-bitches-but-when-i-do-im-shit-faced-on-dos-equis.jpg

[boosted347]

Ps h,b,&k suck tt v8 eg ftw :ninja:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/wudjra/egv8.jpg

[1civic]

And for the record my family is not an excuse, just much harder to spend time or money on a car when your son or wife needs you, or ask for your time.. facts of life!

But yes my car runs, needs a few things before Nov, but it should be ready to compete 100%.. Is it enough for the other GA boys, I would think so.. ;)

Is it the fastest Honda in Ga, no!!

Will it run 11's how it sits, no!!

will it make 250, umm no, not with stock port work!!

would you like to see my car dyno at mainstream? I'm sure it would make more in this weather!! LOL

And about the cams, I bought pro3's online, later did I find out they where not what was posted, point being at that time I was to install everything and be tuned.. I counted my chickens before they hatched.. "it should make more" is what I should have said!! Sry!!!

[1civic]

Ps h,b,&k suck tt v8 eg ftw :ninja:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/wudjra/egv8.jpg

that is just nasty...

[1civic]

I should correct myself by saying "will it run 11's", umm yes with the "Mike Jones" tranny!!! bahahahahaha

[Vteckidd]

And for the record my family is not an excuse, just much harder to spend time or money on a car when your son or wife needs you, or ask for your time.. facts of life!

But yes my car runs, needs a few things before Nov, but it should be ready to compete 100%.. Is it enough for the other GA boys, I would think so.. ;)

Is it the fastest Honda in Ga, no!!

Will it run 11's how it sits, no!!

will it make 250, umm no, not with stock port work!!

would you like to see my car dyno at mainstream? I'm sure it would make more in this weather!! LOL

And about the cams, I bought pro3's online, later did I find out they where not what was posted, point being at that time I was to install everything and be tuned.. I counted my chickens before they hatched.. "it should make more" is what I should have said!! Sry!!!

good luck.

[1civic]

good luck.

Did I cover all my bases? I would hate to make anymore false claims....

[boosted347]

that is just nasty...

this makes the ls1 civette look like a hot wheels lol and get that trans so you can run an 11 then :goodjob:

[1civic]

this makes the ls1 civette look like a hot wheels lol and get that trans so you can run an 11 then :goodjob:

that civette is just that, it's a civic body on a vette chassis..:crazy:

and

Mike Jones is a Hater!!!! He don't want me to win..:cry:

[boosted347]

Im sure if you BUY one from him or have him BUILD one for you he would gladly do it :yes: unless he is just a horrible business man lol

[Vteckidd]

Did I cover all my bases? I would hate to make anymore false claims....

ive come to expect it so its no big deal

[1civic]

Im sure if you BUY one from him or have him BUILD one for you he would gladly do it :yes: unless he is just a horrible business man lol

I can build my own...LOL, I just want his!!!!

[boosted347]

I can build my own...LOL, I just want his!!!!

Then build your own so you cant use it as an excuse :taun:

[David88vert]

I want to know - how many street legal all motor 4 cyl Civics (of any body style, including Del Sols, CRXs, etc) drive to the track, run 10's, and drive back home? Are there any? I've never heard of one.

[1civic]

Then build your own so you cant use it as an excuse :taun:

no excuse homie, I want his since he don't need it! :taun:

[boosted347]

no excuse homie, I want his since he don't need it! :taun:

Buy it from him then lol make him an offer he cant refuse lol

[1civic]

I want to know - how many street legal all motor 4 cyl Civics (of any body style, including Del Sols, CRXs, etc) drive to the track, run 10's, and drive back home? Are there any? I've never heard of one.

per the rules, they must all be street legal, pass inspection, etc... that whole class runs 10's if i'm not mistaken!!

You are thinking of the Pro cars, all out race, tube frame... Those guys run 9's..

[boosted347]

per the rules, they must all be street legal, pass inspection, etc... that whole class runs 10's if i'm not mistaken!!

O well in that case the extreme street classes at NMRA and lsx shootout events that run 8s and 7s are street cars then...hell larry larson runs 6's in his street car...likelihood of seeing any of those cars just riding around everyday is slim to none...do these cars run pump gas when they race? do they ride around on slicks? Just cause its "street legal" doesnt mean they drive it on the street...just saying

[David88vert]

per the rules, they must all be street legal, pass inspection, etc... that whole class runs 10's if i'm not mistaken!!

You are thinking of the Pro cars, all out race, tube frame... Those guys run 9's..

How come all the ones online don't seem to be doing that? I can't find any of them. You ran that class at IS, right? You weren't close to 10s, were you?

[boosted347]

How come all the ones online don't seem to be doing that? I can't find any of them. You ran that class at IS, right? You weren't close to 10s, were you?
He was on street tires :ninja:

[boosted347]

I wish my car could do this :cry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANXL6a-ggy8&feature=player_embedded

[David88vert]

He was on street tires :ninja:

S, he will pick up 2 seconds with a set of slicks?

[David88vert]

I wish my car could do this :cry:

LOL!

[boosted347]

S, he will pick up 2 seconds with a set of slicks?

A full second with h22's trans, another with slicks :lmao: he is also a B all those cars are K's and in case you missed this whole thread K=King :goodjob: lol

[1civic]

How come all the ones online don't seem to be doing that? I can't find any of them. You ran that class at IS, right? You weren't close to 10s, were you?

No, no one running import showdown has run 10's, not all motor.. But in IDRC, Battle or the imports, etc they run 10's in their all motor class.. What is your point anyways? I feel your comparing a V8 to a 4 cyl again...:crazy:

[Moseley]

I want to know - how many street legal all motor 4 cyl Civics (of any body style, including Del Sols, CRXs, etc) drive to the track, run 10's, and drive back home? Are there any? I've never heard of one.

I want to know - how many street legal all motor foxbodies run 12s, don't break down, get 30+mpg, and do more than drive in a straight line? Are there any? I've never heard of one. Oh wait. maybe if they are LS swapped. :lmao:

[boosted347]

I want to know - how many street legal all motor foxbodies run 12s, don't break down, get 30+mpg, and do more than drive in a straight line? Are there any? I've never heard of one. Oh wait. maybe if they are LS swapped. :lmao:

Why is the 30 mpg shit coming into here...no one builds a performance car or race car to get gas mileage...thats a useless argument and there are plenty out there...i dont see 12 sec hondas all over the place either so its not a very valid argument just saying...and lol on the ls swapped :) thats an awesome swap

[Moseley]

well what bothers me is most of the cars the mustang troll is talking about are cars you'd never want to DD on the street. if they are fast they most likely aren't manuals, have a crazy stall, idle like shit, get < 10mpg. etc.

sure my honda only runs 12s but overall it drives just like a normal civic, only 3x the power.

[1civic]

Umm, it's a joke to mike jones!!!!!!!

And I really could careless what you guys think, car ran what it ran on a drag radial (DOT street tire) ...:goodjob:

If you would like to come out Nov then be my guess..:cheers:

[Moseley]

foxbodies are mostly like civics. any one that is fast is going to have extreme modifications. you don't take a 15.0 second car and turn it into an 11 or 10 second car with bolt ons. they are complete turds as they came from ford, and no stock foxbody is worth a shit until you change the motor, suspension, tranny, fuel system. etc. just like a civic :)

[1civic]

well what bothers me is most of the cars the mustang troll is talking about are cars you'd never want to DD on the street. if they are fast they most likely aren't manuals, have a crazy stall, idle like shit, get < 10mpg. etc.

sure my honda only runs 12s but overall it drives just like a normal civic, only 3x the power.

Amen Brotha!!!

[Vteckidd]

per the rules, they must all be street legal, pass inspection, etc... that whole class runs 10's if i'm not mistaken!!

You are thinking of the Pro cars, all out race, tube frame... Those guys run 9's..

IF we are talking TRULY legal, none. No car runs 10s all motor on 93 octane , has cats, etc.

If you mean street legal meaning regular glass and body panels (carbon fiber) and not tube frame, then theres a few.

[David88vert]

No, no one running import showdown has run 10's, not all motor.. But in IDRC, Battle or the imports, etc they run 10's in their all motor class.. What is your point anyways? I feel your comparing a V8 to a 4 cyl again...:crazy:

Not comparing to V8s - comparing to 4 cyls.
So, since all of these all motor Civics are street legal 10 sec cars, why did Bobby say that it wasn't fair for him to run his all motor Civic vs my all motor Honda?

[boosted347]

well what bothers me is most of the cars the mustang troll is talking about are cars you'd never want to DD on the street. if they are fast they most likely aren't manuals, have a crazy stall, idle like shit, get < 10mpg. etc.

sure my honda only runs 12s but overall it drives just like a normal civic, only 3x the power.
Ha well its a race car even if it is "street legal" is my point, they have the same type of classes as NMRA and lsx shootout events they call em street cars but they are never really on the streets..my car was a manual, got 16 mpgs, ac, ps, full interior, radio, etc granted the manual died and my broke college ass couldnt afford a 6 speed swap lol thats the only reason i went auto...and you car "only runs 12s" its still a fast car hell alot of cars cant touch 12 sec cars im just making the point that 12 sec na civics, crxs, etc are prob less common than 12 sec na foxes...it only bothers me when the mpg thing gets brought into the conversation because if i wanted speed and mpgs id get a bike as would most

foxbodies are mostly like civics. any one that is fast is going to have extreme modifications. you don't take a 15.0 second car and turn it into an 11 or 10 second car with bolt ons. they are complete turds as they came from ford, and no stock foxbody is worth a shit until you change the internals, suspension, tranny, fuel system. etc. just like a civic :)
Complete turd is an understatement, now take that motor and put it in a vert sn95 even more of a turd lol...you can take a stock internal fox to the 400 hp range, im running stock fuel lines and rails, i know plenty of people rocking the stock t5 on 400+ whp cars, gforce on heres dad is runnin 501 on it...but change is good but what can you expect from 1989 compared to 2011 technology wise :goodjob:

Ps...im ready for our race in november :ninja:

[1civic]

Not comparing to V8s - comparing to 4 cyls.
So, since all of these all motor Civics are street legal 10 sec cars, why did Bobby say that it wasn't fair for him to run his all motor Civic vs my all motor Honda?

Your compare an apple to an orange now!! WTF would I race a Bike, talk about cars atleast...

[David88vert]

I want to know - how many street legal all motor foxbodies run 12s, don't break down, get 30+mpg, and do more than drive in a straight line? Are there any? I've never heard of one. Oh wait. maybe if they are LS swapped. :lmao:

None of them. They all run 13's and break down constantly.
All of them can take curves - there's a turn at the end of every dragstrip.....

Mine is a 15 second, $25K money pit, that only gets about 2mpg, and ends up in the sandpit everytime at the track. Don't even know why it came with a steering wheel.

[1civic]

None of them. They all run 13's and break down constantly.
All of them can take curves - there's a turn at the end of every dragstrip.....

Mine is a 15 second, $25K money pit, that only gets about 2mpg, and ends up in the sandpit everytime at the track. Don't even know why it came with a steering wheel.


Sounds like a Ford!!!

[David88vert]

well what bothers me is most of the cars the mustang troll is talking about are cars you'd never want to DD on the street. if they are fast they most likely aren't manuals, have a crazy stall, idle like shit, get < 10mpg. etc.

sure my honda only runs 12s but overall it drives just like a normal civic, only 3x the power.

Actually, I know of plenty 10 sec daily driven Mustangs, Camaros, and Vettes - and they are usually very minimally modded. Not all Mustangs are foxbodys. Not all are all motor though.

I also know of several 10 sec Civics that are daily driveable - but none are all motor.

I was specifing all motor earlier. Your's is the best that I have seen for driveable on the street, and I know you aren't running 10s.

[boosted347]

Here is a 10 sec all motor 6 speed full interior DD car...i dont have a pic of it but we had a 10 sec all motor gto that raped everything in columbus...both these cars were simple TS 408 strokers, both 6 speeds both 20+ mpgs
http://truestreetcars.com/forums/attachments/vehicles/11419d1297881034-01-camaro-ss-my-camaro-23.jpg

[boosted347]

Sounds like a Ford!!!

You know it...wanna race my ford, its a very similar build in a heavier car :ninja:

[David88vert]

Your compare an apple to an orange now!! WTF would I race a Bike, talk about cars atleast...

Both are 4 cyl Hondas, the Civic makes more power, but the bike weighs less. It's the same distance being races, seems like apples to apples.....

Not any different than comparing V8s and 4 cyls, which you do all the time....

[1civic]

So what's the big joke about an All Motor civic that runs 12's, and can be daily driven??

[boosted347]

So what's the big joke about an All Motor civic that runs 12's, and can be daily driven??

No joke....who made a joke??? He was asking about the 10 sec all motor civics being driven home from the track and dd'ing them

[1civic]

No joke....who made a joke??? He was asking about the 10 sec all motor civics being driven home from the track and dd'ing them

I have no clue about them, I haven't followed that scene much.. I'm sure they are out there, like 10sec mustangs, vette's, etc.. I speak on the atlanta scene, and my car, which is a street car..

[1civic]

Both are 4 cyl Hondas, the Civic makes more power, but the bike weighs less. It's the same distance being races, seems like apples to apples.....

Not any different than comparing V8s and 4 cyls, which you do all the time....

since when are bike's a car? We can talk your's vs mine, that's cool.. But don't speak about your bike, bring your car out..

[David88vert]

foxbodies are mostly like civics. any one that is fast is going to have extreme modifications. you don't take a 15.0 second car and turn it into an 11 or 10 second car with bolt ons. they are complete turds as they came from ford, and no stock foxbody is worth a shit until you change the motor, suspension, tranny, fuel system. etc. just like a civic :)

We took a stock coupe this year, but a nice big shot of juice on it, with a set of slicks and a cheap converter, and went 11.6's consistently. Full weight, and full interior. Granted, it was being heavily abused.

[boosted347]

I have no clue about them, I haven't followed that scene much.. I'm sure they are out there, like 10sec mustangs, vette's, etc.. I speak on the atlanta scene, and my car, which is a street car..

See this is where i beg to differ, i dont for see these heavily cammed, ITB, crazy high hp Ks just running around the streets on pump gas at least...i mean realistically what are they like 12.5:1 CR and up? Thats a bit much for pump IMO but nothing is wrong with a 12 sec car especially on a DR :goodjob: and ill be at ISD if you feel like gettin drug by a car that almost weighs twice what yours does :lmao: :ninja:

[boosted347]

since when are bike's a car? We can talk your's vs mine, that's cool.. But don't speak about your bike, bring your car out..

You dont want his car...itd be a waste of gas on at least one persons part :ninja:

[1civic]

See this is where i beg to differ, i dont for see these heavily cammed, ITB, crazy high hp Ks just running around the streets on pump gas at least...i mean realistically what are they like 12.5:1 CR and up? Thats a bit much for pump IMO but nothing is wrong with a 12 sec car especially on a DR :goodjob: and ill be at ISD if you feel like gettin drug by a car that almost weighs twice what yours does :lmao: :ninja:

Your right, most run e85 or q16 i'm sure, and atlanta don't have any fully tricked out k26 or k27 blocks so keep watching youtube...LOL

But

Remember no bench racing now, but since you started i'll ask this; How many MPH in 1/4 would I pick up on 100 shot? Just compare some notes, and you could calulate a time for me on spray... Just sayin!!

[boosted347]

Your right, most run e85 or q16 i'm sure, and atlanta don't have any fully tricked out k26 or k27 blocks so keep watching youtube...LOL

But

Remember no bench racing now, but since you started i'll ask this; How many MPH in 1/4 would I pick up on 100 shot? Just compare some notes, and you could calulate a time for me on spray... Just sayin!!

Trust me i dont watch them on youtube i was clarifying what david was asking, you were the one that said these 10 sec cars drive to the track then drive home...he said they dont which is prob accurate :goodjob: me personally i cant stand the sound of an na 4 cylinder but thats just me

And what was your trap speed and ill let ya know if i should be worried :goodjob: and it doesnt matter how many mph you pick up its how low that 60' and ET are...plus dont go gettin tree'd by an old blind dude at the tree :ninja:

[stretch]

DAMN............. nice thread..... been MIA but catching up now..

[David88vert]

since when are bike's a car? We can talk your's vs mine, that's cool.. But don't speak about your bike, bring your car out..

You keep cutting weight to try to have the equivalent of an enclosed bike. Seems fair enough of a race.

My car is a heavy full weight tank of a car. Just a daily driver with AC, power everything, etc.
Your car is a fire-breathin', ear-splittin' tin can with a built race motor that wins major race events.
It's probably not a fair race. You should give me the back tire at least.

[1civic]

And yes to most the All Motor game is a joke, but until you drive one, or hell even ride in one I wouldn't knock it... Just sayin!!!!!

[1civic]

You keep cutting weight to try to have the equivalent of an enclosed bike. Seems fair enough of a race.

My car is a heavy full weight tank of a car. Just a daily driver with AC, power everything, etc.
Your car is a fire-breathin', ear-splittin' tin can with a built race motor that wins major race events.
It's probably not a fair race. You should give me the back tire at least.

Ok smart ass, my car is a full interior street car that ran a local event to support my scene... Your comments may seem funny to you, but it makes you look like a total ass...

Edit:

Remember, your the one who is talking smack to a little four banger... I've got half the ego you do!!! Bahahahahahah

[Moseley]

Damn guys I can't even keep up with this thread



Ps...im ready for our race in november :ninja:

I'd like to do that too but we'll see how things turn out. I might show up in all motor trim again.

run motor to motor? :taun:

[1civic]

Damn guys I can't even keep up with this thread



I'd like to do that too but we'll see how things turn out. I might show up in all motor trim again.

run motor to motor? :taun:

They can't run motor to motor!!! They need the turbo's and superchargers to outrun us!!:taun:

[1civic]

KILLS FORUM FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cheers:

[David88vert]

Ok smart ass, my car is a full interior street car that ran a local event to support my scene... Your comments may seem funny to you, but it makes you look like a total ass...

Edit:

Remember, your the one who is talking smack to a little four banger... I've got half the ego you do!!! Bahahahahahah

What I said was true - IS was a major event, and you won. The car descriptions were accurate also.

I'm not talking smack - just asking for the back tire, to make it fair. That's the least that a race car like yours can do for a daily driver like mine.

[David88vert]

They can't run motor to motor!!! They need the turbo's and superchargers to outrun us!!:taun:

We can't help that you can't afford to buy a turbo or supercharger. I offered to let you run my NA 4cyl stock Honda already.