Crazy idea

[YokotaS13]

Ok, so this has to do with cams, rockers, lifers valves and everything else in the valvetrain....and getting rid of it

I apologize in advance for any typos, mistakes etc, im doing this fast before i loose it all due to sleepyness.

Bsaically the cam and all associated parts creative parasitic drag on the engine.
In order to vreate a different cam profile, you have to change them out for a reground cam to give the results

What if you could do it without havign to change it and with the touch of a button.

Basically what we were thinking is to use a solenoid system, mounted above hte valves, and attach them to the solenoid and use the solenoid on the downstroke to open the valve, Then a spring that is connected, extended when the valve opens, and hte kinetic energy of the spring closes the valve (the strength would match the stroke timing so it woudl be even)
That would be the failsafe (spring)

so all this would be tied into the existing harness, letting the valve timing be done manually (to simulate cams I.E sunk2, hks etc etc) or left at stock, deactivate cylinders or immovilize the engine all together. So if i solenoid fails, it will shit down that cylinder automatically preventing damage (and hte spring makes it so the valve cant hit the piston liek when a timing belt breaks)

in order to power the entire setup, there a few options (takes ALOT of power of course)
dual alternator seatup (parasitic dratg)
Use driveshaft, cv axle and make a magnetic field like a generator to create electricity and store in a deep cell battery (separate from teh normal so if it dies you can charge it or whatever and you always have enough juice)
or use an electric hybrid car setup to get charge as you brake.

anyways, im sure there is something that i missed, but i wanted to see everyones opinion on the subject and if it was completely stupid etc.

thanks all

[b18hb]

sounds expensive to design, develop, test, redesign, develop, test, redesign, develop, test, develop more, test, redesign, develop, test... produce. what benefits would there be by doing it? how reliable could you make it?

you should just take a conventional motor and make a hovercraft out of it instead. that'd be fun. =)

[Kevykev]

sounds expensive to design, develop, test, redesign, develop, test, redesign, develop, test, develop more, test, redesign, develop, test... produce. what benefits would there be by doing it? how reliable could you make it?


That's pretty much any new technological innovation!

Hovercraft idea = LOL

[YokotaS13]

in all honesty, i believe it could be as reliable as a typical drivetrain, for the price of a turbo kit most likely.
Im min touch with a company about the solenouds, and will be attempting to find someone to write a program for it soon. Im going for this fo sho.

[Twinturbo6]

LOL thats already been done. Engineers for the big three as well as the exotic car manufactors are already working on it. you can make a 12 cylinder run on 6 when powers not needed. you can adjust from sport to economy and every thing inbetween, all you need it to adjust the program. it would be an infinitely adjustable cam.
Along with cams that are, for the lack of the engineering term, spheres linked so as to push the cam a bit, and it has a totally different lobe profile. A gut invented those and is trying to market them so as to retro fit them to existing engines.

Great Idea just a decade too late.

[YokotaS13]

links please

[SilverJester]

Sounds like an awsome idea. I think the power options need some more thinking. I don't think you need 2 alternators maybe just a bigger one, because of the fact that the engine will crank over easier. I think that would be the easiest option. I like the failsafe spring, seems like you put some time into this. Either way, that is an awsome idea and it actually sounds relitivily simple when compared to the benifits. I'm also willing to help out with anything...oh and this is a bad ass idea in case I didn't mention it before. :jester: :goodjob:

[YokotaS13]

i still havent heard from a few places i sent emails t

i need someone that can write programs, figer out a way to relate engine rpm to the valvetrain operation. I can always jsut get a car audio battery, but it is cheaper to run two.

[Twinturbo6]

I think I found what your looking for. I went to college for aerospace engineering and somewhere it was discussed, along with alot of other novel ideas. ( did you know mercedes took out a patent in 1958, that they are supposed to bring to market in the next ten years, which puts the alternator windings in a flywheel, since its always moving, and would not eat up additional power to turn, and at higher rpms could put out alot more power then a traditional alternator )

and the additional battery is not needed as the very next generation of cars will have to go to 24 volt. To keep up with the boom in on board electronics.

BTW the last three links, the first two are to companys developing this, and the last is to a board where they discuss it in detail.

[Twinturbo6]

FoMoCo have done a lot of development work on this concept. Right now the principal downside for racing is weight. It may never be possible to make it weigh less than a conventional cammed valvetrain. The obvious upside is the same freedom in valve timing as allowed by a solenoid system. Either can be controlled electronically. I think that some of the components in the illustrations could be shared by more than one cylinder, perhaps an entire bank. This would get the weight and complication within reason. Ford has made single cylinder prototypes which are very promising.

[Twinturbo6]

As to the energy efficiency of EVA, here's a public disclosure report filed with the SEC by Aura Systems in El Segundo CA, who have a pretty impressive record for developing new tech applications. Note the bold type:

". Electromagnetic Valve Actuators (EVA)

Over the past several years, the Company has been applying its patented
electromagnetic technology to a variety of applications. One application
developed is its electromagnetic valve actuator (EVA), which is an
electromagnetic actuator capable of opening and closing internal combustion
engine valves, replacing the mechanical camshaft on an engine. EVA uses the
power of electromagnets to open and close engine valves, and is capable of
accomplishing this in less than 3/1000 of a second. The engine computer that is
used on virtually all modern automobile engines will send to the EVA electronics
module a valve position command in the same way it will send a fuel injector
command. The EVA electronic module will implement the command, and wait for the
next command from the computer.

Two major benefits arise from the EVA's ability to open and close the
valve electromagnetically: 1) the camshaft and associated mechanical hardware
can be eliminated, and 2) the opening and closing of the intake and exhaust
valves can be commanded by the engine computer. As an example, EVA has been
retrofitted on a 140 HP, 2.3L 4 cylinder Ford engine that is currently running
in the laboratory.

Computer control of the valve timing has potentially material benefits
to engine performance, fuel economy and emissions. With EVA, the computer can
precisely control the amount of air that is allowed into the engine in the same
way that modern fuel injectors control the amount of fuel. By optimizing this
"fuel-air mixture" dynamically as a function of engine RPM and load, optimum
engine performance can be achieved over the entire operating range of the
engine. With a standard camshaft, the engine can be optimized at only one range
of RPM and load conditions. That is why very high performance engines idle
"rough", as they are optimized for high RPM, thereby sacrificing smoothness at
low RPM.

By optimizing the fuel-air mixture dynamically, both performance
(horsepower) and fuel economy will increase, while emissions are expected to
decrease. The implementation of EVA also greatly simplifies the engine
mechanically. The entire camshaft assembly, with includes timing chain,
camshaft, rocker arms, etc. is replaced by very simple valve actuators. Other
emission systems currently on the vehicle, such as the EGR (exhaust gas
recirculation) and IMRC (intake manifold runner control) valves can be
eliminated. Even the throttle assembly can be eliminated by using EVA to
control the amount of air going into the engine. Overall engine cost may be
substantially reduced.

Due to the Company's patented design, EVA requires relative little
power to operate. Lab measurements have shown that the total power required to
operate EVA is typically well under 100 watts/valve. Because of friction and
mechanical losses, a typical camshaft requires 3 to 5 horsepower to operate
(1hp=750 watts).

The Company is currently under contract to retrofit EVA's on different
types of diesel, automobile and motorcycle engines."

Note that the claimed power use for these EVAs is 100w/valve x 10 valves/camshaft in an F1 engine = 1Kw per 10 valves vs. 3 to 5 x .75Kw per cam in a cammed valvetrain. It appears that EVA is potentially more efficient than a camshaft-operated valve train.

[Twinturbo6]

the system is described in sae paper no 970248

http://www.fev.com/03eng/02ed/e_ed_vt.html

http://www.siemens.com/at/txt_load/evt_at015.jpg

http://forums.atlasf1.com/showthread.php?postid=163518

[YokotaS13]

kick ass, now if i can make it before them, and change it slightly from theirs. I figured i can use only 4 solenoids total, making it much easier. well on a 4 cylinder with a 4 valve per cylinder setup
link the end of the valve on to a bar that runs accross with 2 solenoids positioned above it to actuate it. Anyways, neverthe less, if i can find out where to get hte solenoids from im going to use it on a 4 wheeler see if i can get somethign to work

[Vteckidd]

LOL thats already been done. Engineers for the big three as well as the exotic car manufactors are already working on it. you can make a 12 cylinder run on 6 when powers not needed. you can adjust from sport to economy and every thing inbetween, all you need it to adjust the program. it would be an infinitely adjustable cam.
Along with cams that are, for the lack of the engineering term, spheres linked so as to push the cam a bit, and it has a totally different lobe profile. A gut invented those and is trying to market them so as to retro fit them to existing engines.

Great Idea just a decade too late.
+1 vote. I belive F1 engines use a version of this technology, pneumatic vavles with no valvetrain and no camshaft.

i know one of the newer BMWs (M5 maybe? ) uses a system like this.

[dwnsthGABOY]

sounds like one hell of an idea.
Go for it!!

[99SI]

f1 does use compressed air to open and close valves that is why they can turn 18k rpms without breakage in the valvetrain.

[YokotaS13]

http://www.fev.com/03eng/02ed/e_ed_vt.html