redrumracer
07-10-2008, 03:05 PM
That is right F*ck the GTO and Corvette. I would much rather have the new Pontiac G8 GXP LS3 400hp, 6 speed, 4 door(insurance cheaper), AND IT LOOKS BETTER.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0806_2009_pontiac_g8_gxp_first_look/index.html
This isn't your grandfather's Wide-Track Pontiac Ventura. It's far from your older brother's Widely Cladded Bonneville GXP. The only exterior visuals betraying the Corvette 6.2-liter, 402-horsepower LS3 V-8 under its hood are the new front fascia with big foglamps, 19-inch wheels, new rear diffuser, two badges on the side, and one on the decklid. Pontiac considered a kid-racer rear wing and replaced it with the GT's lip spoiler at the last minute. Who had the good taste to make that change?
"Bob Lutz," says Brian Shipman, G8 product manager.
"I agree with his approach," Shipman continues, as if he'd have a choice. "He wanted a more refined approach, and he said, 'How many BMWs do you see driving around with a wing spoiler?'"
Before GM vice chairman and car guru Lutz arrived, the "Excitement Division" measured said excitement by how much cladding and "performance" spoilers it could trowel onto a car. Lutz ordered all that stuff stripped off and worked on making Pontiac the poor man's BMW. It hasn't been smooth going. Lutz earnestly compared the handling of some sporty front-drive Pontiacs with BMW's best. His first Pontiac-Holden hybrid was the quick but crude 2004 rear-drive GTO. And even now, the 2008 G6 GXP suffers some residual big-hair cheesiness. The front-drive G6's styling comes off as a bit common, Shipman thinks, so "we had to do something to maybe bring that out a little more. When you look at the G8 styling, the profile, the whole stance of the vehicle is unique. So we don't need to do the same thing to make this car stand out."
Like Teddy Roosevelt, or the sublime M3, it walks softly and carries a big stick. Pontiac estimates the LS3 will scoot from standstill to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds, 0.6 second quicker than the G8 GT (which was 0.2 second quicker than the Dodge Charger R/T, as tested in our April issue). We have to bench-race the GXP for now. A 4.7-second 0-to-60-mph time would trump the Charger SRT8's 5.0 flat. Thanks to better handling and much better refinement, that 425-horsepower Charger won a two-car battle over the GTO in our December 2005 comparison, despite the LS2-powered Pontiac's quicker 0-to-60 sprint of-wait for it-4.7 seconds.
How will Pontiac do it with a larger, heavier sedan? With precious little modification to the C6's 436-horsepower, 428-pound-foot LS3. There are a different water pump and exhaust manifold, and a slightly modified intake, mostly for packaging. "The Corvette is optimized for airflow," Shipman says. "This car isn't quite as optimized." As in the Corvette, the LS3 trumps the 6.0-liter LS2 with high-flow L92-style cylinder heads, unique camshaft and camshaft timing, a tweaked valvetrain with offset intake rocker arms, high-flow intake and fuel injectors. The extra 12 cubic inches is the result of a bigger bore, with larger-diameter cylinder heads and pistons for high-rpm performance.
GXPs with the 6L80 six-speed Hydra-Matic automatic get a 3.27:1 final-drive ratio, and a Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual-this is the only G8 offered with a stick-comes with a 3.70:1 final drive. Pontiac rates both 402 horsepower at 6000 rpm. The automatic makes 402 pound-feet and the stick makes 400 at 4400 (all pending SAE certification). Shipman expects half of GXP buyers to choose the stick, which seems old-school-enthusiast optimistic to us. Hope he's right.
How will the G8 GXP's handling compare with the Charger SRT8's? In our April story, Art St. Antoine found the G8 GT more nimble, with better handling than the Charger R/T's. And you can turn off the G8's StabiliTrak stability control, while the Charger's system refuses to give up completely.
Predictably, the GXP's suspension will stiffens things up. It's race-ready with virtually no modifications, Shipman says. The MacPherson strut front and multilink coil-over rear carry forward with a direct-acting front anti-roll bar, decoupled rear stabilizer bar and lateral ball joints on the rear for more lateral stiffness. Caster, camber, and toe are adjustable in front, and camber and toe are adjustable in the rear. P245/40R19 summer tires are standard and limit the car's top speed to a near-autobahn-perfect 150 mph. All-season tires are among three options available on the GXP. The others are the transmission choice and a sunroof.
Building a poor man's M5 is a tall order, though. BMW's ability to balance extreme handling prowess with a relatively supple ride is magic. "We don't want it to be too stiff, where it's bouncing you out of the car, but it's also got to have some performance," Shipman says. "So I think it's going to be a nice blend."
We'll have to wait until we can get off the bench and test-drive the car before we find out whether Pontiac's formula works. GM, and particularly Pontiac, has a history of overstiffening and overtiring cars for high grip. Brembo is becoming the brake industry's answer to Bose car audio, and that's a good thing. The GXP upgrades to that brand with 14-inch, four-piston ventilated front rotors and 12.76-inch, single-piston ventilated rears. These should be good. The GT recorded a remarkably short 112-foot stop from 60 mph with 12.6-inch front/12.8-inch rear non-Brembo discs. GXP steering is unchanged from the standard G8, with the steering box located ahead of the front axle line for quicker and more direct feel.
You'll control this from what's basically a fully loaded G8 interior, with the addition of new GXP logo-embroidered seatbacks, new display for battery voltage, oil temperature, and pressure out of the five-inch screen atop the center stack, GXP graphic on the gauge cluster, perforated leather-covered steering wheel and shift knob, and sport metallic pedals. Audio is a standard 230-watt Blaupunkt with XM radio.
The only option beside the choice of automatic or manual and all-season or summer tires is a sunroof. Which leads to the question, how much? Pontiac isn't saying yet. The Charger SRT8's $39,218 base is a good starting point for an estimate. That includes a $2163 gas-guzzler tax for 13/18 mpg EPA numbers. Pontiac expects it'll have to fork over a gas-guzzler tax on the G8 GXP as well. If the G8 GT's $1435 base price advantage over the Charger R/T is any guide, this car could come in under $38 large, but don't count on it.
The good news is that neither Pontiac nor Holden are production-constrained. So you and all your brothers and sisters can buy one and erase memories of the Widely Cladded Pontiacs once and for all.
2009 PONTIAC G8 GXP
BASE PRICE $38,000 (MT est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front engine, RWD, 5-pass, 4-door sedan
ENGINE 6.2L/402-hp/400-402-lb-ft OHV 16-valve V-8
TRANSMISSIONS 6-speed manual; automatic
CURB WEIGHT 4023-4050 lb (mfg)
WHEELBASE 114.8 in.
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 196.1 x 74.8 x 57.7 in.
0-60 MPH 4.7 sec (mfg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON Not yet tested
CO2 EMISSIONS N/A
ON SALE IN U.S. Late autumn 2008
http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0806_2009_pontiac_g8_gxp_first_look/index.html
This isn't your grandfather's Wide-Track Pontiac Ventura. It's far from your older brother's Widely Cladded Bonneville GXP. The only exterior visuals betraying the Corvette 6.2-liter, 402-horsepower LS3 V-8 under its hood are the new front fascia with big foglamps, 19-inch wheels, new rear diffuser, two badges on the side, and one on the decklid. Pontiac considered a kid-racer rear wing and replaced it with the GT's lip spoiler at the last minute. Who had the good taste to make that change?
"Bob Lutz," says Brian Shipman, G8 product manager.
"I agree with his approach," Shipman continues, as if he'd have a choice. "He wanted a more refined approach, and he said, 'How many BMWs do you see driving around with a wing spoiler?'"
Before GM vice chairman and car guru Lutz arrived, the "Excitement Division" measured said excitement by how much cladding and "performance" spoilers it could trowel onto a car. Lutz ordered all that stuff stripped off and worked on making Pontiac the poor man's BMW. It hasn't been smooth going. Lutz earnestly compared the handling of some sporty front-drive Pontiacs with BMW's best. His first Pontiac-Holden hybrid was the quick but crude 2004 rear-drive GTO. And even now, the 2008 G6 GXP suffers some residual big-hair cheesiness. The front-drive G6's styling comes off as a bit common, Shipman thinks, so "we had to do something to maybe bring that out a little more. When you look at the G8 styling, the profile, the whole stance of the vehicle is unique. So we don't need to do the same thing to make this car stand out."
Like Teddy Roosevelt, or the sublime M3, it walks softly and carries a big stick. Pontiac estimates the LS3 will scoot from standstill to 60 mph in 4.7 seconds, 0.6 second quicker than the G8 GT (which was 0.2 second quicker than the Dodge Charger R/T, as tested in our April issue). We have to bench-race the GXP for now. A 4.7-second 0-to-60-mph time would trump the Charger SRT8's 5.0 flat. Thanks to better handling and much better refinement, that 425-horsepower Charger won a two-car battle over the GTO in our December 2005 comparison, despite the LS2-powered Pontiac's quicker 0-to-60 sprint of-wait for it-4.7 seconds.
How will Pontiac do it with a larger, heavier sedan? With precious little modification to the C6's 436-horsepower, 428-pound-foot LS3. There are a different water pump and exhaust manifold, and a slightly modified intake, mostly for packaging. "The Corvette is optimized for airflow," Shipman says. "This car isn't quite as optimized." As in the Corvette, the LS3 trumps the 6.0-liter LS2 with high-flow L92-style cylinder heads, unique camshaft and camshaft timing, a tweaked valvetrain with offset intake rocker arms, high-flow intake and fuel injectors. The extra 12 cubic inches is the result of a bigger bore, with larger-diameter cylinder heads and pistons for high-rpm performance.
GXPs with the 6L80 six-speed Hydra-Matic automatic get a 3.27:1 final-drive ratio, and a Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual-this is the only G8 offered with a stick-comes with a 3.70:1 final drive. Pontiac rates both 402 horsepower at 6000 rpm. The automatic makes 402 pound-feet and the stick makes 400 at 4400 (all pending SAE certification). Shipman expects half of GXP buyers to choose the stick, which seems old-school-enthusiast optimistic to us. Hope he's right.
How will the G8 GXP's handling compare with the Charger SRT8's? In our April story, Art St. Antoine found the G8 GT more nimble, with better handling than the Charger R/T's. And you can turn off the G8's StabiliTrak stability control, while the Charger's system refuses to give up completely.
Predictably, the GXP's suspension will stiffens things up. It's race-ready with virtually no modifications, Shipman says. The MacPherson strut front and multilink coil-over rear carry forward with a direct-acting front anti-roll bar, decoupled rear stabilizer bar and lateral ball joints on the rear for more lateral stiffness. Caster, camber, and toe are adjustable in front, and camber and toe are adjustable in the rear. P245/40R19 summer tires are standard and limit the car's top speed to a near-autobahn-perfect 150 mph. All-season tires are among three options available on the GXP. The others are the transmission choice and a sunroof.
Building a poor man's M5 is a tall order, though. BMW's ability to balance extreme handling prowess with a relatively supple ride is magic. "We don't want it to be too stiff, where it's bouncing you out of the car, but it's also got to have some performance," Shipman says. "So I think it's going to be a nice blend."
We'll have to wait until we can get off the bench and test-drive the car before we find out whether Pontiac's formula works. GM, and particularly Pontiac, has a history of overstiffening and overtiring cars for high grip. Brembo is becoming the brake industry's answer to Bose car audio, and that's a good thing. The GXP upgrades to that brand with 14-inch, four-piston ventilated front rotors and 12.76-inch, single-piston ventilated rears. These should be good. The GT recorded a remarkably short 112-foot stop from 60 mph with 12.6-inch front/12.8-inch rear non-Brembo discs. GXP steering is unchanged from the standard G8, with the steering box located ahead of the front axle line for quicker and more direct feel.
You'll control this from what's basically a fully loaded G8 interior, with the addition of new GXP logo-embroidered seatbacks, new display for battery voltage, oil temperature, and pressure out of the five-inch screen atop the center stack, GXP graphic on the gauge cluster, perforated leather-covered steering wheel and shift knob, and sport metallic pedals. Audio is a standard 230-watt Blaupunkt with XM radio.
The only option beside the choice of automatic or manual and all-season or summer tires is a sunroof. Which leads to the question, how much? Pontiac isn't saying yet. The Charger SRT8's $39,218 base is a good starting point for an estimate. That includes a $2163 gas-guzzler tax for 13/18 mpg EPA numbers. Pontiac expects it'll have to fork over a gas-guzzler tax on the G8 GXP as well. If the G8 GT's $1435 base price advantage over the Charger R/T is any guide, this car could come in under $38 large, but don't count on it.
The good news is that neither Pontiac nor Holden are production-constrained. So you and all your brothers and sisters can buy one and erase memories of the Widely Cladded Pontiacs once and for all.
2009 PONTIAC G8 GXP
BASE PRICE $38,000 (MT est)
VEHICLE LAYOUT Front engine, RWD, 5-pass, 4-door sedan
ENGINE 6.2L/402-hp/400-402-lb-ft OHV 16-valve V-8
TRANSMISSIONS 6-speed manual; automatic
CURB WEIGHT 4023-4050 lb (mfg)
WHEELBASE 114.8 in.
LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 196.1 x 74.8 x 57.7 in.
0-60 MPH 4.7 sec (mfg)
EPA CITY/HWY FUEL ECON Not yet tested
CO2 EMISSIONS N/A
ON SALE IN U.S. Late autumn 2008