machining question

[Drummerboy]

Okay, I have NO experience with machining. The Pistons I'm looking at are 1mm over stock (86mm). Is it safe to assume that if there is any scarring in the cylinders it will be less than a mm deep? And is it mandatory that I get the block bored or honed (whatever the term is) when replacing pistons?

[Black4DrEK]

IF you have scarring i Doupt its THAT deep, but..

You need to take the block to the shop. Then they can tell you the bore.. you need to get bored anyways IF you want those 86mm pistons

and YES you should ALLWAYS get a Fresh hone before installing new pistons/rings..

[Drummerboy]

IF you have scarring i Doupt its THAT deep, but..

You need to take the block to the shop. Then they can tell you the bore.. you need to get bored anyways IF you want those 86mm pistons

and YES you should ALLWAYS get a Fresh hone before installing new pistons/rings..

Gracias Senor, Reps coming your way. Another question, since my motor is stock sleeved, is the honing done to the sleeves? or done to the actual cylinder and then I need bigger sleeves?

[Black4DrEK]

It is the sleeve that gets "bored" or "Honed"..

You dont need Bigger sleeves..

IF your going or are BOOST than shit i would get After market Sleeves.. alot STRONGER..

[dallasb84]

um your gouges can only be .... .5mm either way..... which is .0196" which is..... not that much....

then you need to find out the recommended ptw clearance for your walls.....lets go with .045" i built mine to roughly .05"

so if you are at 85mm which is 3.346

and 86mm is 3.386 plus ptw clearance which is 3.431 final size..... now subtract the .010 for the hone out....

your final before hone would be 3.420 or 86.868mm

[Drummerboy]

um your gouges can only be .... .5mm either way..... which is .0196" which is..... not that much....

then you need to find out the recommended ptw clearance for your walls.....lets go with .045" i built mine to roughly .05"

so if you are at 85mm which is 3.346

and 86mm is 3.386 plus ptw clearance which is 3.431 final size..... now subtract the .010 for the hone out....

your final before hone would be 3.420 or 86.868mm

hmm, I think I get it. But correct me if im wrong.

You're saying BEFORE a hone, im at 86.868mm, which means its already over sized for the pistons?

[Black4DrEK]

if your stock. it should be 85mm give or take a few millatrillazillakilla meters.. LOL

[dallasb84]

what im saying... is to use the 86mm piston youll have to bore out 1.868mm/2 from the cylinder... so..... your way under bore now....

i was just trying to go over the shop math with you so you might get a better understanding..........

generally you order the pistons after its machined, sometimes you can either save money on used parts or buy a better or cheaper brand slug..... for instance.... i bought used je pistons and eagle rods on the low... and with my factory bore i honed it out for my piston to wall clearance....


now when you go 30 over bore thats .762 millimeter in your case your essentially going 35 over......

just throwing some things out there

[Drummerboy]

last thing, whats a decent price to get a the cylinders honed 1.868mm over?

I read somewhere 75 a cylinder, then I was told by a local shop 1300. lol.

[Black4DrEK]

you mean BORED over.. Im not sure..BUT i got my block Honed for 10 a cylinder i believe.. IF that..

HONE is just for making sure the Rings seat correct and have NO blow by..
BORING is when you actually "BORE" out the sleeves WIDER..

[dallasb84]

you mean BORED over.. Im not sure..BUT i got my block Honed for 10 a cylinder i believe.. IF that..

HONE is just for making sure the Rings seat correct and have NO blow by..
BORING is when you actually "BORE" out the sleeves WIDER..

they bore..... then hone.....

and 10 a cylinder is normal..... because they are only taking 5 from each side to equal 10........ but.....

r u talking prices???? cuz 10 a cylinder is HIGH AS FUCK...... since a ball hone costs that.... lol

[Black4DrEK]

I know they BORE ... then HONE..

Im talking price.. AND i said IF that much.. i cant remember what i paid for my block to get honed but i know it wasnt very pricey.. maybe 20 to 30 bucks or something..

[Black4DrEK]

Your reading TOO hard!

[Drummerboy]

they bore..... then hone.....

and 10 a cylinder is normal..... because they are only taking 5 from each side to equal 10........ but.....

r u talking prices???? cuz 10 a cylinder is HIGH AS FUCK...... since a ball hone costs that.... lol

$10 a cylinder? as in...$40 all together for bore and hone? If so, I'm definitely building within the next few months

thanks guys!

[dallasb84]

last thing, whats a decent price to get a the cylinders honed 1.868mm over?

I read somewhere 75 a cylinder, then I was told by a local shop 1300. lol.

well.... a good price. is ..... going to 3 or more shops....with no notion of recomendations and prior referrals.....and telling "i need a bore with these pistons and this wall clearance"..... "whats the lead time" thats it


.......then asking to see a motor they are working on and a done one......


if they pass the price test..... and the proof of workmanship.... then its a good price.....


going to a shop because they will bore your motor for 200 bux.... is stupid.


1300 is high even to build a motor......god damn. thats a rip off.

machine and build should be 2 weeks generally 800 bux...... with a running motor...(no repairs)

[Black4DrEK]

$10 a cylinder? as in...$40 all together for bore and hone? If so, I'm definitely building within the next few months

thanks guys!

NO!!!!

Im saying i payed around 25-40 bucks for just a HONE JOB!!! not to BORE out.. ITS TWO different things...BORING out your block is probly more than getting a HONE job

[dallasb84]

aww shit we lost him.... oh well when he comes back we can crush him with fail bombs

[Black4DrEK]

^ LOL


Scotts Machin shop.. in Fayetteville Ga, does great work.. Done a few things for me and a few other folks i know.. GL with it..

[ballistic08]

Theres a lot of bad info going on in here.

Theres a very good chance that boring 1mm over will clear up the cylinders fine. They have to be bored and then honed. If you have 86mm pistons the cylinders wont be 86.868mm. It will cost around $200-250, or you can do extremely strong Darton Sleeves for around $1500.

[dallasb84]

[quote=ballistic08;38728414]Theres a lot of bad info going on in here.

is my math wrong????

i just curious..... i used a general ptw clearance an got that number....

[ballistic08]

I think you missed a 0. what you calculated was .030 clearance and you would want .003 clearance

[Drummerboy]

yeah I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit lost. So I'm looking at around 200-250 for a bore and 40 for a hone?

Not what I was hoping for, but I guess you gotta pay to play.

[ballistic08]

200-250 would usually include the hone.

[NEMO]

yeah I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit lost. So I'm looking at around 200-250 for a bore and 40 for a hone?

Not what I was hoping for, but I guess you gotta pay to play.

just pm accordpride and get him to quote you

[Formally...]

I would suggest going with 85.5mm pistons if you can to get rid of the scaring that you have. You need to get the pistons first and then take it all to a good machine shop and let them bore and hone it to the specs of the pistons.

Also, you can get Golden Eagle to sleeve your block for about $1100 for everything.

[ballistic08]

If your taking it to a machine shop I would recomend buying them from the shop. You pay the same price and you help out the shop more.

edit: IMO

Golden Eagle sleeves aren't as strong as Darton Sleevs, hence the price difference, but at your power range I dont think you need either.

Also as far as honing goes getting a block honed by a machine shop is a lot different than a ball hone.

[dallasb84]

If your taking it to a machine shop I would recomend buying them from the shop. You pay the same price and you help out the shop more.

Golden Eagle sleeves aren't as strong as Darton Sleevs, hence the price difference, but at your power range I dont think you need either.

Also as far as honing goes getting a block honed by a machine shop is a lot different than a ball hone.

qft....


and your absolutely right about the ball hone diy'r vs a machine shop....

luckily i havent had any problems with the things ive put together....


im not by any means a machinist or a professional engine builder... i was trying to just shed the little bit of light and understanding i have to the op.

[Formally...]

Golden Eagle sleeves aren't as strong as Darton Sleevs, hence the price difference, but at your power range I dont think you need either.

Well Golden Eagle warranties their sleeves to 1300hp and 70psi. I don't think anyone around here is going to void the warranty. I have seen two Darton Sleeved blocks that sunk sleeves (most likely an install error) but never had a problem with the 20+ GE blocks.

But yes have the machine shop that is doing the boring do the honing also. You can spend alot of money on good parts but if it is not machine properly or put together properly then you just wasted your money.

[SPOOLIN]

Golden Eagle sleeves aren't as strong as Darton Sleevs, hence the price difference, but at your power range I dont think you need either.

You sir are ill informed. Funny MOST of the fastest sport compacts in the world run golden eagle and none run DARTON. They have the money to buy Darton but they don't. Please don't go spreading your opinion that is not worth its weight in salt.

[ACCORDPRIDE]

just pm accordpride and get him to quote you

x2

[Homer Simpson]

x2

shouldn't you be in school?

[ballistic08]

you are right, thats my opinion, but you don't know what my opinion is worth, as you dont know me. your opinion is also just that, an opinion.